Are vaccines the light at the end of the tunnel?

[Fouremco]

57 minutes ago, farmermd said:

which I still don’t wear. To quote the left - my body, my choice. 

Somehow, that doesn't surprise me in the slightest. SMH

[cangelmd]

2 hours ago, Homosassa said:

While we are all probably excited at the possibility that cruising from US ports may start, here is the newest executive order from the Florida governor banning the requirement of covid 19 vaccinations as a requirement for obtaining service from any business in Florida (second page, section 2).  I am not sure how this will impact any cruise line wishing to sail from a Florida port  with fully vaccinated crew and passengers.

 

https://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/EO-21-81.pdf

 

 

I’m not sure DeSantis has much control over what goes on onboard the ship, or in the port after the longshoremen take the luggage, if he did, ships would be sailing.

The CDC has control over shipping in a way that it does not have over any other mode of travel or commerce.

I read Dr. Wallensky’s comments about the changes in travel guidance. I don’t think the CDC guidance for cruising from US ports is going to lead to ships sailing anytime soon. I think they want case numbers down to what they were a year ago AND a lot more data about durability of immunity before they allow cruising.

When you read the new travel guidance, it doesn’t actually sanction interstate travel let alone international travel or cruises.

[Ken the cruiser]

For those interested @middlehaitchfound a little while ago what appears to be the new CDC Phase 2A Technical Instructions, both as of April 2, 2021. At the top of the first document below reads the following:

 

CDC issued an Order that requires face masks to be worn by all travelers while on public transportation, including all passengers on board and all personnel operating maritime conveyances traveling into, within, or out of the United States. Masks are also required at all U.S. transportation hubs, including seaports and ferry terminals. For more information on this mask requirement, see the Frequently Asked Questions.

 

CDC COVID-19 Orders for Cruise Ships | Quarantine | CDC

 

Technical Instructions for a Cruise Ship Operator’s Agreement with Port and Local Health Authorities under CDC’s Framework for Conditional Sailing Order | Quarantine | CDC

 

Edited April 3, 2021 by Ken the cruiser

[Oville]

1 hour ago, D C said:

That's the media spin. 

We're only 6 months in.  Yay! We know it lasts AT LEAST that long.   The media plays it with a negative spin as if they're hoping that it doesn't last a day longer. 

You can’t be serious.  I think most people realize we are just 6 months in and I have yet to see a single media outlet play it with a negative spin.  Big question, why are you often so negative?

[hcat]

2 hours ago, docsneeze said:

    Completely agree.  First subject in August 2019, 4 months initial evaluation, then periodic evaluation of neutralizing antibodies done in February-March.  So it lasts at least 6 months baed on available data.  Subjects commit to 2 years of follow-up so will know more over time.  Hopefully, it will last at least one to two years.  TeeRick completely accurate on explanation and well done.  

       By the way, just for the interested, doctors are privileged to attend medical school but I wouldn't say that all of them are necessarily brilliant.  A good doctor combines reasonable intelligence with compassion and understanding.  Unfortunately, some are limited in compassion and even a few are limited in intelligence.  Fortunately, the vast majority are very bright and very dedicated to their patients. After all, without patients there would be no reason for us to exist!

One to two years would be great...HOPE !..

Thanks to you and TeeRick and  others...some of this stuff is very complicated for the non scIence folks here..  Just trying to figure out if and when we can safely cruise again

[cantstopingcruising]

5 hours ago, farmermd said:

which I still don’t wear. To quote the left - my body, my choice. 

Don't you get fined where you live?

[docsneeze]

4 hours ago, hcat said:

One to two years would be great...HOPE !..

Thanks to you and TeeRick and  others...some of this stuff is very complicated for the non scIence folks here..  Just trying to figure out if and when we can safely cruise again

Thank you hcat.  We all want to be cruising again.  Cancelled 3 cruises in the past year.  My son is now 3 and would like to cruise with him before he graduates high school!

[CRUISEFAN0001]

11 hours ago, farmermd said:

which I still don’t wear. To quote the left - my body, my choice. 

More accurately...your choice, everyone else's risk.

[tallnthensome]

12 hours ago, farmermd said:

Let’s hope it prevents them from sailing from Florida until they drop the vaccine mandate. 

Most of us are hoping its you that is dropped from sailing, not the cruise line vaccine mandate. We would prefer that the lines leave those anti vaxxers like you on the pier and that will most likely be the case anyhow. 

[hcat]

5 hours ago, docsneeze said:

Thank you hcat.  We all want to be cruising again.  Cancelled 3 cruises in the past year.  My son is now 3 and would like to cruise with him before he graduates high school!

Hopefully it will happen sooner,  Our grandsons are now  5 and 1...no cruising for them for  quite awhile.  They did go to Fl for holidays this yr...no issues.

 

Their Parents have no immed plans to get them vaccinated and are concerned how 5 yr old will adjust to wearing a mask all day if req in K.  He has been in a pvt day care ( NY suburbs) since the Spring when parents returned to work..both EW.  Only the children, in very small groups, and  the staff  are allowed in the bldg ( installed many cameras  for instant viewing by parents).  He is used to twice daily  temp checks and wears a mask elsewhere but never all day in school. School had zero cases..staff or kids.  One parent was positive but that child stayed home til tested neg and parent was never in the bldg. 

 

We watched the little one for many months  even before we got our shots til his dad retired.. Luckily we all  remained healthy as we mostly stay home.  Even now with having our Moderna shots we lay low..

 

 Sorry I  wandered here a bit....I know this is the science thread about vaccines, ...but  i am also interested in studies about how childrdn have fared....emotionally, socially and academically. GS lost  progress in all areas for the  short time his schooo/ daycare was closed but now quite "kindrgarten -ready"!

 

Hope we wil all cruise again...and with our families but not til it is safe to do so!

[terrydtx]

1 hour ago, tallnthensome said:

Most of us are hoping its you that is dropped from sailing, not the cruise line vaccine mandate. We would prefer that the lines leave those anti vaxxers like you on the pier and that will most likely be the case anyhow. 

So right on, the reality will be for the next few years, get stuck or stay stuck at home, which I am just fine with. I have zero sympathy for the anit-vaxxers when it comes to travel.

[TrulyBlonde]

34 minutes ago, hcat said:

 

 

 Sorry I  wandered here a bit....I know this is the science thread about vaccines, ...but  i am also interested in studies about how childrdn have fared....emotionally, socially and academically. GS lost  progress in all areas for the  short time his schooo/ daycare was closed but now quite "kindrgarten -ready"!

 

Hope we wil all cruise again...and with our families but not til it is safe to do so!

FYI. My 10 yr old Grandson (this week was his birthday) is in a private Christian school in Orange County CA and has attended school all year. They wear masks, have plexiglass, wipes, the whole deal. As normal as can be. However, his friends in the neighborhood in public school have had to do Zoom classes and one friend is facing depression. Very sad.

 

I am vaccinated now and since CDC said I am at low risk for travel, booked a trip to see him end of April. We will stay at a resort in our own bubble, lot's of outdoor beach and pool time, and will either have room service or dine outside. I am nervous, but it has been over a year since I have seen him. We usually take a Disney cruise every March for his birthday. This will have to be the replacement. Two day visit and home I go. Yes, I am nervous and have not traveled in a year and a half. 

 

 

[mimbecky]

1 hour ago, terrydtx said:

So right on, the reality will be for the next few years, get stuck or stay stuck at home, which I am just fine with. I have zero sympathy for the anit-vaxxers when it comes to travel.

In less than 2 weeks California is opening to indoor concerts, performances and large gatherings with a number of limitations.  One being you need to have proof of vaccination (yay) or a negative test.  I was thinking if you aren't vaccinated either you stay at home or spend a lot of time (or money for rapid tests) running around to get tested every time you want to attend an event. 

California Will Allow Indoor Concerts to Resume Beginning April 15 (yahoo.com)

M

Edited April 3, 2021 by mimbecky
link

[TeeRick]

17 hours ago, Homosassa said:

While we are all probably excited at the possibility that cruising from US ports may start, here is the newest executive order from the Florida governor banning the requirement of covid 19 vaccinations as a requirement for obtaining service from any business in Florida (second page, section 2).  I am not sure how this will impact any cruise line wishing to sail from a Florida port  with fully vaccinated crew and passengers.

 

https://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/EO-21-81.pdf

 

 

It is just so disappointing that vaccines have become such a political issue.  No surprise I guess.  If FL bans Vaccine Passports but then the CDC requires proof of vaccination to cruise from the US, where the heck are we?   It seems the governor is working at cross purposes to get cruising going again.  Would RCG cruise lines home-ported in FL fall under this order for all of their employees?  How does this order help to create a safe cruising environment?

 

"The Republican governor had previously announced his intent to issue an order banning so-called “vaccine passports.” His action also barred any government agency in Florida from issuing such documentation for the purpose of providing proof of vaccinations."

 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/florida-governor-issues-order-banning-businesses-from-requiring-vaccine-passports

[hcat]

2 hours ago, TrulyBlonde said:

FYI. My 10 yr old Grandson (this week was his birthday) is in a private Christian school in Orange County CA and has attended school all year. They wear masks, have plexiglass, wipes, the whole deal. As normal as can be. However, his friends in the neighborhood in public school have had to do Zoom classes and one friend is facing depression. Very sad.

 

I am vaccinated now and since CDC said I am at low risk for travel, booked a trip to see him end of April. We will stay at a resort in our own bubble, lot's of outdoor beach and pool time, and will either have room service or dine outside. I am nervous, but it has been over a year since I have seen him. We usually take a Disney cruise every March for his birthday. This will have to be the replacement. Two day visit and home I go. Yes, I am nervous and have not traveled in a year and a half. 

 

 

Thank you for sharing ...staying in the resort bubble is a good idea. Seeing him will be a boost all around. ( Being vaccinated is a plus but  we'd still be on guard  while travelling.)  Enjoy your trip!

 

 Just read short  blurb about effects on parents :

"Sixty-three percent say the pandemic made the 2019-2020 school year extremely stressful for them, according to an August survey conducted by Harris Poll on behalf of the American Psychological Association. In the same survey, 77% of parents of 8- to 12-year-olds said that uncertainty about the 2020-2021 school year was causing them stress"

 

Maybe we should start a new thread on all these ancillary effects...so we can preserve this one for vaccine info and updates...,

[TeeRick]

2 hours ago, TrulyBlonde said:

FYI. My 10 yr old Grandson (this week was his birthday) is in a private Christian school in Orange County CA and has attended school all year. They wear masks, have plexiglass, wipes, the whole deal. As normal as can be. However, his friends in the neighborhood in public school have had to do Zoom classes and one friend is facing depression. Very sad.

 

I am vaccinated now and since CDC said I am at low risk for travel, booked a trip to see him end of April. We will stay at a resort in our own bubble, lot's of outdoor beach and pool time, and will either have room service or dine outside. I am nervous, but it has been over a year since I have seen him. We usually take a Disney cruise every March for his birthday. This will have to be the replacement. Two day visit and home I go. Yes, I am nervous and have not traveled in a year and a half. 

 

 

TrulyBlonde,

You will be safe to travel.  Enjoy seeing your grandson!!  A lot of people worked tirelessly on all aspects of these vaccines so people like you could see their grandchildren again.  Have a great time!

[TeeRick]

COVID vaccine might be helpful to COVID Long Haulers.  Hopefully this gets to be a proven remedy.  Time will tell.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/03/health/long-haulers-vaccine-wellness/index.html

[hcat]

4 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

It is just so disappointing that vaccines have become such a political issue.  No surprise I guess.  If FL bans Vaccine Passports but then the CDC requires proof of vaccination to cruise from the US, where the heck are we?   It seems the governor is working at cross purposes to get cruising going again.  Would RCG cruise lines home-ported in FL fall under this order for all of their employees?  How does this order help to create a safe cruising environment?

 

"The Republican governor had previously announced his intent to issue an order banning so-called “vaccine passports.” His action also barred any government agency in Florida from issuing such documentation for the purpose of providing proof of vaccinations."

 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/florida-governor-issues-order-banning-businesses-from-requiring-vaccine-passports

From a non political viewpoint.. I am not sure why we need a  Gov issued Vaccine Passport..more bureacracy and seems redundant, .. We should all have our Vaccination Cards that were  issued to us  at the place we received our shots.. 

 

Ours say where and when they were issued,  and include  what looks like the vaccine batch  nos ( ??).  They accepted dh's  card copy at work....where he has interaction at times with public. We just put  Confidential Med Record stamp on it to  avoid gratuitous re-disclosure.

 

Just show the card...and sail!

[TeeRick]

19 hours ago, hcat said:

Thanks for your explantion and links. Very interesting .

Glad it was caught but I am  still not comfortable with the idea of this type of mistake on a large scale...too critical  a need for the product and more careful practices! Like if day care gave out peanut butter instead of soy????

 

hcat- it seems that this company has had a series of previous problems with the FDA.  It is more than a bit worrisome to me too.

 

https://apnews.com/article/virus-vaccine-johnson-and-johnson-emergent-biosolutions-d9edd171f8013e17c0be8b13a6db7fed

[TeeRick]

1 minute ago, hcat said:

From a non political viewpoint.. I am not sure why we need a  Gov issued Vaccine Passport..more bureacracy and seems redundant, .. We should all have our Vaccination Cards that were  issued to us  at the place we received our shots.. 

 

Ours say where and when they were issued,  and include  what looks like the vaccine batch  nos ( ??).  They accepted dh's  card copy at work....where he has interaction at times with public. We just put  Confidential Med Record stamp on it to  avoid gratuitous re-disclosure.

 

Just show the card...and sail!

What if you need some type of official electronic vaccine passport to enter and cruise from certain countries as part of their requirements?  What if they will not accept the paper cards?

[ch175]

Clearly, from reading this, vaccines are not the light at the end of the tunnel.

 

There are two options with the vaccine that I have heard from “official” channels in the past week or so.

 

One, the vaccine prevents people from getting sick and being carriers. If that’s the case, you are good if you choose to get the vaccine. Anyone who doesn’t take it can’t possibly impact you. Stop worrying.

 

Two, the vaccine lessens the impact of the virus and you can still be a carrier and transmit it. So it really doesn’t matter if anyone gets vaccinated or not. In fact, it might be worse for others if you get vaccinated since you might still be a transmitter with mild or no symptoms, rather than unvaccinated and knowingly sick.

 

And these rapid tests? Everything I’ve read about them is that they have a false negative rate of anywhere between 30 and 100%, with them being worse the closer it is to when you were exposed. So you could be a transmitter and test negative. They are essentially worthless.

[zitsky]

11 minutes ago, ch175 said:

Clearly, from reading this, vaccines are not the light at the end of the tunnel.

 

There are two options with the vaccine that I have heard from “official” channels in the past week or so.

 

One, the vaccine prevents people from getting sick and being carriers. If that’s the case, you are good if you choose to get the vaccine. Anyone who doesn’t take it can’t possibly impact you. Stop worrying.

 

Two, the vaccine lessens the impact of the virus and you can still be a carrier and transmit it. So it really doesn’t matter if anyone gets vaccinated or not. In fact, it might be worse for others if you get vaccinated since you might still be a transmitter with mild or no symptoms, rather than unvaccinated and knowingly sick.

 

And these rapid tests? Everything I’ve read about them is that they have a false negative rate of anywhere between 30 and 100%, with them being worse the closer it is to when you were exposed. So you could be a transmitter and test negative. They are essentially worthless.

 

You wanna make a bet that the vaccine is 100% effective?

[Pinboy]

17 hours ago, farmermd said:

which I still don’t wear. To quote the left - my body, my choice. 

OF Course - Yup-- Your body , Your choice -- Very Smart --- 

Hey, Whatya gonna tell the Police Officer when the " Bum " stops Ya and gives You a ticket --

Hey, Whatya gonna tell the tow truck driver when he/she is putting your Lexus-- Oops, your truck onto the hoist heading for the scrap yard.

I'll bet you won't take the vaccine -- it's for wimps, like us who CARE about ourselves and OTHERS.

Bonne Journee --- Have a nice day.

 

 

[Oville]

1 hour ago, hcat said:

From a non political viewpoint.. I am not sure why we need a  Gov issued Vaccine Passport..more bureacracy and seems redundant, .. We should all have our Vaccination Cards that were  issued to us  at the place we received our shots.. 

 

Ours say where and when they were issued,  and include  what looks like the vaccine batch  nos ( ??).  They accepted dh's  card copy at work....where he has interaction at times with public. We just put  Confidential Med Record stamp on it to  avoid gratuitous re-disclosure.

 

Just show the card...and sail!

Hcat, how difficult do you think it would be to make Counterfeit cards showing all the info the current card has on it but fictitious info?  People probably will make a bundle off it.  As Floridians it sounds like we will not be able to get a vaccine passport issued from the state.  Hopefully the feds will issue them.  I sure wouldn’t hop on a cruise if the only verification of vaccination is one of those cards.

[Charles4515]

9 minutes ago, Pinboy said:

OF Course - Yup-- Your body , Your choice -- Very Smart --- 

Hey, Whatya gonna tell the Police Officer when the " Bum " stops Ya and gives You a ticket --

Hey, Whatya gonna tell the tow truck driver when he/she is putting your Lexus-- Oops, your truck onto the hoist heading for the scrap yard.

I'll bet you won't take the vaccine -- it's for wimps, like us who CARE about ourselves and OTHERS.

Bonne Journee --- Have a nice day.

 

 

 

They likely won't be saying anything to the tow truck driver. They will be dead or on the way to the ICU. Their choice, I am not opposed to assisted suicide. 

 

I suspect we are being trolled. They wear seatbelts and they probably have had or will be vaccinated.