Covid on Alaska cruise

[JanDom]

I posted this on the RCL boards and someone said well maybe it's a "false positive“

Exactly what I thought!!
The problem is : no one can tell you if the tests are really correct and no one is testing the tests.
We will we controlled in our company once a year and we have to have a controller of the controller and for this controller another controller. So we can be sure the first one works. But no one ever controlled these tests ... 🤷‍♀️



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[rafinmd]

Appears to have been a false positive:

 

https://www.alaskapublic.org/2020/08/12/uncruise-says-wilderness-adventurer-did-not-have-covid-19-on-board-after-all/

 

Roy

[Charles4515]

Appears to have been a false positive:

 

https://www.alaskapublic.org/2020/08/12/uncruise-says-wilderness-adventurer-did-not-have-covid-19-on-board-after-all/

 

Roy

 

It probably was not a false positive. They tested positive when they took the first test. The results came after they sailed. They took a second test later that was negative. They could have been positive and then became negative in the time between the tests. Likely though they were not positive given the timeline while onboard. Since the test results are not instantaneous you can see how that could happen.

 

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/news/false-positive-false-narrative-uncruise-alaska-experience-ceo-says

 

 

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[Charles4515]

 
It probably was not a false positive. They tested positive when they took the first test. The results came after they sailed. They took a second test later that was negative. They could have been positive and then became negative in the time between the tests. Likely though they were not positive given the timeline while onboard. Since the test results are not instantaneous you can see how that could happen. They could have been at the end of an asymptotic infection when tested.

 
https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/news/false-positive-false-narrative-uncruise-alaska-experience-ceo-says
 
 
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[rkacruiser]

7 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

 

It probably was not a false positive. They tested positive when they took the first test. The results came after they sailed. They took a second test later that was negative. They could have been positive and then became negative in the time between the tests.

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/news/false-positive-false-narrative-uncruise-alaska-experience-ceo-says


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This article says much of what I believe.  If we are going to cruise again, the testing has to be reliable and the results of such testing prompt, i.e. within minutes. 

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, rafinmd said:

Appears to have been a false positive:

 

https://www.alaskapublic.org/2020/08/12/uncruise-says-wilderness-adventurer-did-not-have-covid-19-on-board-after-all/

 

Roy

A false negative, you get the spread of the disease. A false positive, you get an unnecessary end to the cruise and a scare for many. The new reality sucks.

[rkacruiser]

57 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

A false negative, you get the spread of the disease. A false positive, you get an unnecessary end to the cruise and a scare for many. The new reality sucks.

 

No dispute by me for that conclusion.  

 

For cruising to successfully begin again, that is issue #1 that needs to be resolved.  

 

[Mandalay1903]

56 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

A false negative, you get the spread of the disease. A false positive, you get an unnecessary end to the cruise and a scare for many. The new reality sucks.

I agree, the new reality sucks.

 

A false negative leads to the spread of the disease and an eventual true positive. The way I'm understanding this cruise operator's policies and procedures is that any positive leads to the end of the cruise and in this case also leads to the cancellation of the remaining ten weeks of their season.  What I don't understand is, despite their apparently having and following some very good health protocols and claiming to follow the science [with which I agree] why they even decided to sail this summer. During the middle of a pandemic and especially in the US, did they really expect to not experience any Covid-19 cases from the traveling public? This decision made with the impact of even one case meaning the termination of the current cruise and the cancellation of the rest of their season? That's quite a gamble in my view.

 

We really do need to get this solved.

[foodsvcmgr]

From a health perspective a good outcome.

For the passengers and cruise line, cancelling the cruise and season, quarantine, etc., not so good.

Looking forward, assuming there is a vaccine and proof of inoculation is required to board, then in a couple days someone tests positive, what will be the result? How will it impact the rest of the ship?

At some point there has to be a less extreme resolution or it will be pointless to ever try to cruise again.

[KirkNC]

The more I read about the virus and vaccines the less confident I am about cruising.  I have been saying June 21 but I am becoming afraid that is too early.  I also think cruising may change in ways that makes it unattractive for us.

[Mandalay1903]

After having a bunch of Covid-cancelled cruises, my next booked cruise is a May 2021 B2B Mediterranean cruise on the Westerdam. In March, I had a 75% confidence that this cruise would take place. Now, my confidence percentage has fallen. Partially because of the complexity of the itinerary (multiple countries with multiple entry rules, etc.), but mostly because the US and several other countries aren't making more progress yet in controlling the spread.  Plus the science says we're heading into a tough fall season, which I sadly feel will most likely be true.  If we have a tough fall Covid-19 season, I could easily see the CDC pushing out the US cruise moratorium until the end of this year.

 

I think the cruise lines will probably do a great job in setting policies and procedures for handling positive cases. And they'll do a great job of scrubbing and disinfecting the ships--no doubt. But the part that they can't fully control are the passengers. How does a cruise line compel everyone to honestly prove inoculation/vaccination in a Covid-19 world with HIPPA rules when the airlines can barely force people to wear face masks properly for just a few hours? And how does a cruise ship passenger rely on a vaccination when the FDA deems 60-75% (or so) as satisfactory effectiveness for use?  A 60-75% vaccine effectiveness may cause a virus to burn itself out eventually, but I don't think it would burn out by Q2 2021.

[npcl]

14 hours ago, Mandalay1903 said:

After having a bunch of Covid-cancelled cruises, my next booked cruise is a May 2021 B2B Mediterranean cruise on the Westerdam. In March, I had a 75% confidence that this cruise would take place. Now, my confidence percentage has fallen. Partially because of the complexity of the itinerary (multiple countries with multiple entry rules, etc.), but mostly because the US and several other countries aren't making more progress yet in controlling the spread.  Plus the science says we're heading into a tough fall season, which I sadly feel will most likely be true.  If we have a tough fall Covid-19 season, I could easily see the CDC pushing out the US cruise moratorium until the end of this year.

 

I think the cruise lines will probably do a great job in setting policies and procedures for handling positive cases. And they'll do a great job of scrubbing and disinfecting the ships--no doubt. But the part that they can't fully control are the passengers. How does a cruise line compel everyone to honestly prove inoculation/vaccination in a Covid-19 world with HIPPA rules when the airlines can barely force people to wear face masks properly for just a few hours? And how does a cruise ship passenger rely on a vaccination when the FDA deems 60-75% (or so) as satisfactory effectiveness for use?  A 60-75% vaccine effectiveness may cause a virus to burn itself out eventually, but I don't think it would burn out by Q2 2021.

Because HIPPA does not apply.  HiPPA protects your medical records, but if a cruise line required proof of vaccination the cruise line would be asking you to provide your record of vaccination, You can release that information anytime you want.  If you refuse the cruise line cannot force you to provide them, but they can refuse to let you board.

 

Basically passenger agrees to provide information they can cruise, passenger refuses they cannot cruise.  It would be, if required, a condition of boarding.

 

At this point I think the cruise lines themselves have largely realized that they cannot safely cruise with US passengers out of the US, until the case counts are considerably lower. The numbers are much lower in Europe. Low enough that the odds of getting an ill passenger from Germany lets say is about 1 per 10 cruises.  They have had some issues, but so far they have been related to crew being infected, not illness coming from passengers.  Where as the infection rate in Germany is about 1 per 10 cruises of 1000 people, in the US it would be today multiple infected people per cruise.

 

The airlines have gotten fairly successful in their mask policy now that they have shown how seriously they are taking it (removing people from flights, even returning to the gate, putting people on no fly lists).

 

 

Edited August 15, 2020 by npcl

[Mandalay1903]

40 minutes ago, npcl said:

Because HIPPA does not apply.

Thank you for the clarification about HIPPA.  Is there an existing standard mechanism in place that would securely allow a prospective passenger to share a portion of a medical record with a company?

[KirkNC]

7 minutes ago, Mandalay1903 said:

Thank you for the clarification about HIPPA.  Is there an existing standard mechanism in place that would securely allow a prospective passenger to share a portion of a medical record with a company?

On expedition cruises you are required to complete a medical questionnaire which must be signed by a doctor.  Also we have seen cruises where they require proof of a yellow fever inoculation.  

[npcl]

1 hour ago, Mandalay1903 said:

Thank you for the clarification about HIPPA.  Is there an existing standard mechanism in place that would securely allow a prospective passenger to share a portion of a medical record with a company?

Basically the passenger would have to get a document from the physician or nurse that gave them the vaccination certifying that they have been vaccinated. No electronic transfer mechanism.

[Shelbydarling]

If your doctor’s office uses MyChart or something similar, you should be able to download the documentation and then share it as you wish to do so.

Edited August 16, 2020 by Shelbydarling

[Suzanne123]

Just for clarification, it’s HIPAA, not HIPPA.

Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act

[rkacruiser]

8 hours ago, Suzanne123 said:

Just for clarification, it’s HIPAA, not HIPPA.

Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act

 

I appreciate you making what the words are that the initials actually represent.  

 

I wonder how many Americans really understand what this Act really means?  And, why it ought to be significant to them?