Cruise Might Change To Land

[klfrodo]

Requesting thoughts/ideas

I'm just trying to be proactive with scenarios.

I have a cruise planned for 2021 from Barcelona to Barcelona, that goes around Italy. Florence, Rome, Naples, Venice, etc.

 

All flights and hotels are booked and paid for. 3 days pre-cruise in BCN.

 

So, if in fact the EU will allow Americans into the various countries, AND the cruise gets cancelled, I'm thinking of just changing my plans on the fly and tour Italy as a land vacation.

Presuming my starting point and ending point is Barcelona,,,, what would be your recommendations? I have 13 days to see Italy.

Train? Fly? Drive? Combination of all 3? ( a little old for the backpacking/bike ride)

 

Just interested in someone else thoughts and ideas. Who knows, someone may have already done this.

 

And before someone recommends it, we already have Rick Steves books.

 

Thanks

[slidergirl]

I've done a few permutations of this.  All of the intra-Italy can be done easily via train.  Trenitalia is an easy website that will help you build your travel.  I will say that it was a beautiful drive between Florence and Rome, so if you feel OK driving, I'd do that.  I've also rented a car in Venice and drove up to Innsbruck via Bolzano and the Great Road of the Dolomites - spectacular.  When I started in Barcelona and went next to Pisa, I flew with my 2 friends.  So, you could fly to/from Barcelona from wherever your Italy trip ends.  
Depending on what you want to do in your locations, a car may not be needed.  If you are used to doing excursions from the ship, most of those locations have excursions you may buy yourself.  

 

I can't help with Naples - my ex's family lives in metropolitan Naples, so I have NO desire to go there 😉

[mom says]

I agree that it's doable, but for my tastes, and only 13 days, I might consider dropping one if the 4 places listed. Since these are strung out from North to south, it makes sense to use a multicity flight ticket, flying into Venice and returning to BCN from Naples (or Rome if you drop Naples). Trains to Florence, Rome and Naples are inexpensive, fast, and frequent. Just pack lightly, since you'll have to manage your own luggage onto and off of the trains. We've driven in various parts of Italy several times, and a car is especially handy in rural areas, but are nothing if not an impediment in cities.

 

Of course all this assumes that you will be allowed to enter Italy without a quarantine first.

[navybankerteacher]

If you are planning on seeing the cities, train is definitely the way to do it.  Driving in Italian cities is NOT for amateurs, (and parking is likely to add significant cost) while there is great, convenient and inexpensive inter-city train service.  Save driving for a stay, perhaps, in some small town in Tuscany (Greve - halfway between Florence and Siena comes to mind) from which you could explore the hill towns and beautiful countryside.

[George C]

I hope you can do your cruise we did a roundtrip from Barcelona a few years ago with 5 stops in Italy it was a great vacation .

[SelectSys]

Why not simply switch and tour Spain and/or France instead?  Many great destinations to visit and getting around by car isn't too bad even if the tolls in Spain are kind of high.  The drive from Barcelona to Venice is 13 hours.  The drive from Naples to Barcelona is 17+.  

 

If you really want to go to Italy then pack light using a combination of the discount airlines and trains - preferably night trains to avoid wasted days.  Get a rental car for a couple of days if you want to explore the countryside somewhere.

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by SelectSys

[klfrodo]

1 hour ago, SelectSys said:

Why not simply switch and tour Spain and/or France instead? 

 

Already doing 3 weeks in London, France, and Spain prior to the cruise.

[mom says]

Just a note about night trains. Don't. It makes no sense taking one (if one even exists) between Barcelona and Italy, when you could fly in less than half the time. And few can claim a comfortable or sound sleep, even in a private room. And if you take the Italian cities in geographic sequence, they are only an hour or two apart.

[SelectSys]

6 minutes ago, klfrodo said:

Already doing 3 weeks in London, France, and Spain prior to the cruise.

sounds like a great trip!  Hope it works out

[slidergirl]

32 minutes ago, mom says said:

Just a note about night trains. Don't. It makes no sense taking one (if one even exists) between Barcelona and Italy, when you could fly in less than half the time. And few can claim a comfortable or sound sleep, even in a private room. And if you take the Italian cities in geographic sequence, they are only an hour or two apart.

Mom, we did not say take a train between Barcelona & Italy.  we said FLY.  And, then take the train...

Just so you know, but there actually is a way to take a train between Barca and Roma - you just have to change trains and it takes about 16 hours. 

I had a private room Milan-Venice about 16 years ago - slept fine.  I've also had a roomette on Amtrak from Seattle to Los Angeles and I slept like a baby. 

Edited August 18, 2020 by slidergirl

[cruisemom42]

5 hours ago, klfrodo said:

Requesting thoughts/ideas

I'm just trying to be proactive with scenarios.

I have a cruise planned for 2021 from Barcelona to Barcelona, that goes around Italy. Florence, Rome, Naples, Venice, etc.

 

All flights and hotels are booked and paid for. 3 days pre-cruise in BCN.

 

So, if in fact the EU will allow Americans into the various countries, AND the cruise gets cancelled, I'm thinking of just changing my plans on the fly and tour Italy as a land vacation.

Presuming my starting point and ending point is Barcelona,,,, what would be your recommendations? I have 13 days to see Italy.

Train? Fly? Drive? Combination of all 3? ( a little old for the backpacking/bike ride)

 

 

I'm not sure how your trip to Italy will be connected with the rest of the travel you are doing. If it were only Italy, I'd suggest (the obvious) which is seeing if you can change your flights to go in/out of Italy instead of BCN.

 

If that's not an option, then a cheap intra-EU flight from Barcelona to one of your starting point cities in Italy makes sense. Perhaps you'd want to fly into Venice, spend 4 days there, then take the (high speed) train to Florence (5 days), then Rome (4 days). Since parts of those days will involve travel, I would agree that it's better to cut out one city or area. If Naples is important to you, you could do Naples-Rome-Florence, or Naples-Rome-Venice also.  

 

All of these cities are well connected by high-speed rail which is both cheap (if you purchase tickets a few months in advance) and comfortable. Since the trains take you from city center to city center, you don't waste time getting to/from airports (and waiting in airports).

 

Once in those cities there are many options for getting around. Rome has public transportation of course but is also very walkable if you are used to walking. Venice has the vaporetti (and walking).  Florence is extremely compact; you can also use the regional trains and buses to visit nearby towns such as Pisa, Lucca, Fiesole, San Gimignano, Siena...

 

Naples again is a little more complicated depending on what you want to see or do. You can make it more of a vacation by staying on the Amalfi coast, or you could just base yourself in Naples and take day trips to places such as Pompeii, Capri, etc.  If you want to do the Amalfi drive, hire a driver for the day -- I would not recommend driving it yourself.

 

Edited to add:  There is a ton of info on the Italy ports of call forum about getting around Italy, using the trains and sightseeing independently in the various cities. It's a good place to ask more detailed questions.

Edited August 18, 2020 by cruisemom42

[iancal]

We have toured Italy a number of times by car.  We never have a car in the city.  As an example, we might train from Rome to Florence. Spend a few days in town.  Then pick up a rental, tour Tuscany, Umbria, etc. for a week, ten days whatever, then drop the car off Venice....either at the airport or when we cross the bridge into town we make the first right into the car rental offices.  Or..pick up a car in Venice, tour Marche area, and drop it off in Ancona.

 

We never had any problems driving in Italy.  Signage is not bad in Tuscany but purchased a Europe GPS.   You do have to watch for photo radar in Italy.  Many are broken but the brake lights for no obvious reason of a local driving ahead of you is a good indication of a 'working' camera. Same for no go/locals only areas in small towns. 

 

We have done exactly the same in Spain, Portugal, Turkey, etc.  Almost always one way rentals.

Edited August 18, 2020 by iancal

[ilikeanswers]

9 hours ago, klfrodo said:

Already doing 3 weeks in London, France, and Spain prior to the cruise.

 

If you end up dropping the cruise is not possible to rearrange your itinerary to make it more convenient? It would be easier to do Spain, France and then Italy rather than France, Spain and jump to Italy.

[wowzz]

22 hours ago, klfrodo said:

we already have Rick Steves books.

I would throw those away.

You will find that most Europeans find Rick Steves to be condescending, inaccurate,  and lacking in empathy.

However, he has managed to make a lot of money from writing garbage! 

[navybankerteacher]

4 minutes ago, wowzz said:

I would throw those away.

You will find that most Europeans find Rick Steves to be condescending, inaccurate,  and lacking in empathy.

However, he has managed to make a lot of money from writing garbage! 

Seconded - his work is the McDonald’s Big Mac of travel guides - wildly popular, but......

[iancal]

Agree.  After the first two or three we stopped  buying Steves a number of years ago.  We might look at them in the library but that is it.

 

You will find a few tips but from a travel guide perspective they are light as a feather.  We tend to start with Lonely Planet or Rough Guides but it really depends on the country.

Edited August 19, 2020 by iancal

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

Seconded - his work is the McDonald’s Big Mac of travel guides - wildly popular, but......

 

I disagree. I like his walking tours of cities. They are quite detailed for do-it-yourselfers. Other guides provide more history and description perhaps, but few give you the step-by-step details better than Steves.

 

For example, his planning table that shows what is open on what days in Florence (always a confusing jumble of closures on various days, half-days, and "every other Tuesdays") was an invaluable planning guide all in one place without having to visit 14 museum websites.

 

Another favorite of mine is his walking tour of the Greek Agora tour in Athens.

 

I used his guide to get around Istanbul very easily on my own on several independent stays.

 

I am the type who thinks nothing of bringing a handful of guidebooks (and copies of chapters from other guidebooks) with me. In fact, once when I was in Haghia Sofia reading aloud some notes from a book on this beautiful, historic building to a travel companion, a local guide walked up to me and wanted to know where he could get a copy of my detailed notes... 

 

People are quick to dismiss Steves, but his books are helpful. I would never use them as a single source for planning though.

Edited August 19, 2020 by cruisemom42

[dogs4fun]

I agree with cruisemom's assessment of Steves guidebooks - his step by step directions/details are excellent, especially for first time visitors to an area. 

Like cruisemom, I often take chapters from multiple guidebooks. I research sites I plan to visit, create PDFs of info researched and load the PDFs onto my iphone.  OCD ... 😏

I sometimes use Rough Guides & have found that they eclipse Steves by offering superior insight into the culture & history of an area - after all, the authors are european and understand the current social atmosphere on a level that most Americans can not achieve by research alone. I have also used Lonely Planet & the Eyewitness Guides (great for those who are visual).

My favorite: the Blue Guides - these provide in-depth information on the history, art, architecture & archaeology of an area. There is some practical info (hotels, cafes, etc.) provided but nothing to compare with the practical details provided by Steves.

 

To the OP: is there a reason that you want to fly into and out of BCN? I would purchase an open-jaw ticket. Perhaps fly into BCN and fly home from FCO?

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by dogs4fun

[klfrodo]

2 hours ago, dogs4fun said:

 

 

😏

 

 

To the OP: is there a reason that you want to fly into and out of BCN? I would purchase an open-jaw ticket. Perhaps fly into BCN and fly home from FCO?

 

My Award Tickets in Business class are from BCN post cruise.

If there is no cruise and I decide to turn this into a land holiday, I don't want to include scrambling to find 3 business class award seats from another airport with limited search time. My flights to/from home are secure. Other things are flexible. Catching flights to BCN from Rome, Naples, or Venice will be much easier than trying to find award seats in business back to the States.

Edited August 19, 2020 by klfrodo

[wowzz]

I loved the Rick Steve's video that he posted on line for a short while,  showing him driving in the UK. He broke numerous laws within 20 minutes, because he had done absolutely no research as to how to drive in the UK. How can you possibly trust someone like that? He had to take the video down and give a somewhat grudging apology,  which made him look even more stupid.

As a Brit, before I drove in the US for the first time I made sure I knew the rules about such things as a "four way stop", and "turning right on red", both of which are unknown here. A pity Rick didn't do the same. 

[dogs4fun]

 

29 minutes ago, wowzz said:

I loved the Rick Steve's video that he posted on line for a short while,  showing him driving in the UK. He broke numerous laws within 20 minutes, because he had done absolutely no research as to how to drive in the UK

I definitely  wouldn't be interested in his driving advice. 😏 I believe that you are referencing his hogging the middle lane on the M6 (can't recall what else he was doing but I do remember that it was an embarrassing clip). 

 

[wowzz]

11 minutes ago, dogs4fun said:

 

I definitely  wouldn't be interested in his driving advice. 😏 I believe that you are referencing his hogging the middle lane on the M6 (can't recall what else he was doing but I do remember that it was an embarrassing clip). 

 

And also about how to use a roundabout. His advice would cause carnage.  Sheer lack of knowledge,  and his apology was embarrassing,  basically just saying that he had been too busy to do any research.

Pure nincompoopery!

[cruisemom42]

46 minutes ago, wowzz said:

I loved the Rick Steve's video that he posted on line for a short while,  showing him driving in the UK. He broke numerous laws within 20 minutes, because he had done absolutely no research as to how to drive in the UK. How can you possibly trust someone like that? He had to take the video down and give a somewhat grudging apology,  which made him look even more stupid.

As a Brit, before I drove in the US for the first time I made sure I knew the rules about such things as a "four way stop", and "turning right on red", both of which are unknown here. A pity Rick didn't do the same. 

 

Yeah, yeah. I hear this one thing brought up every time someone in the UK talks about Steves. An embarassing gaffe, to be sure -- but as an editor, if I took umbrage every time I read something wrong, incorrect, outdated or unchecked in anyone's guidebook, I could safely claim they are all idiots.

 

Instead I just assume they are all human.

 

By the way, Steves doesn't write all the material in his guides himself. He collaborates with many of the best guides in a lot of the cities he visits in an effort to at least try to get it right. 

 

 

[navybankerteacher]

3 hours ago, wowzz said:

I loved the Rick Steve's video that he posted on line for a short while,  showing him driving in the UK. He broke numerous laws within 20 minutes, because he had done absolutely no research as to how to drive in the UK. How can you possibly trust someone like that? He had to take the video down and give a somewhat grudging apology,  which made him look even more stupid.

As a Brit, before I drove in the US for the first time I made sure I knew the rules about such things as a "four way stop", and "turning right on red", both of which are unknown here. A pity Rick didn't do the same. 

You do not have “left on red”? - it would save a lot of time, and a fair amount of fuel.

[ilikeanswers]

4 hours ago, wowzz said:

I loved the Rick Steve's video that he posted on line for a short while,  showing him driving in the UK. He broke numerous laws within 20 minutes, because he had done absolutely no research as to how to drive in the UK. How can you possibly trust someone like that? He had to take the video down and give a somewhat grudging apology,  which made him look even more stupid.

As a Brit, before I drove in the US for the first time I made sure I knew the rules about such things as a "four way stop", and "turning right on red", both of which are unknown here. A pity Rick didn't do the same. 

 

I guess it is a good thing he doesn't write all the books any more😂.