Required to take a HAL excursion to leave the ship in future?

[cruisemom42]

23 hours ago, CherryCupcake said:

Sorry I voiced my opinion.  Put downs are never appreciated.  But as a little old lady pushing 80 who has also traveled the world for many, many years (more than 3000 days at sea, various cruise lines) I am no longer charging forth and unwilling to take risks. As a small woman, over the years enough questionable situations have happened that would probably never be an issue for a man.    From now on I will keep my opinions to myself, and will enjoy to the fullest every cruise I book in these trying times.  I'm so happy cruise opportunities are resuming, even with strict protocol, which is not as everyone would like it to be.  It is time to make your choices.  For many it will be to not cruise because of strict protocols as there are plenty of other travel modes out there.  But I am grateful and very happy to be returning to the sea for the holidays after we return home from a long RV road trip in the US, departing in a few days.  Yes, from now on I will keep opinions to myself.  We all have our preferences. 

 

I am sorry that you regret posting. It's always good to hear opinions in all directions (as long as they are not putting others down, which I am not sure that the responders to your post were doing....)

 

I think what may have sparked some to respond was your statement "Also consider that as a senior citizen we are considered "targets" for those locals who would do us harm if on our own." 

 

I am not sure I'd agree that senior citizens are 'targeted' by locals in many if not most locations around the world.  I also am a female, and have traveled alone many places in this world including Turkey, Egypt, Tunisia, Morocco, Jordan, Japan, SE Asia, and most western European countries. There is only one time I can think of when I felt "targeted", and no harm came from it ultimately due to quick realization.

 

I have also, when traveling with my mother (who was in her 70s) seen acts of kindness toward seniors such as giving up seats on trams or subways, and even (in Paris heat) offering to let us skip a long queue at a museum. 

 

By the same token, I have witnessed a very spunky and spry 89-year-old lady get badly injured on a shore excursion when the activity was clearly too strenuous/demanding for her. Despite two personnel from the ship being along on the tour, no one stopped her from jumping rock to rock in a shallow cove to get to a ruined site that was half under water. She fell, hit her head on a rock, and required a number of stitches.

 

[Mary229]

25 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I am sorry that you regret posting. It's always good to hear opinions in all directions (as long as they are not putting others down, which I am not sure that the responders to your post were doing....)

 

I think what may have sparked some to respond was your statement "Also consider that as a senior citizen we are considered "targets" for those locals who would do us harm if on our own." 

 

I am not sure I'd agree that senior citizens are 'targeted' by locals in many if not most locations around the world.  I also am a female, and have traveled alone many places in this world including Turkey, Egypt, Tunisia, Morocco, Jordan, Japan, SE Asia, and most western European countries. There is only one time I can think of when I felt "targeted", and no harm came from it ultimately due to quick realization.

 

I have also, when traveling with my mother (who was in her 70s) seen acts of kindness toward seniors such as giving up seats on trams or subways, and even (in Paris heat) offering to let us skip a long queue at a museum. 

 

By the same token, I have witnessed a very spunky and spry 89-year-old lady get badly injured on a shore excursion when the activity was clearly too strenuous/demanding for her. Despite two personnel from the ship being along on the tour, no one stopped her from jumping rock to rock in a shallow cove to get to a ruined site that was half under water. She fell, hit her head on a rock, and required a number of stitches.

 

We will never know if someone said something to her prior to her injury.  Occasionally I travel with my young, athletic nieces and nephews.  When I do I participate in strenuous excursions and as the oldest person on the excursion once or twice I have been asked discretely by personnel if I am capable. 

[cruisemom42]

3 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

We will never know if someone said something to her prior to her injury.  Occasionally I travel with my young, athletic nieces and nephews.  When I do I participate in strenuous excursions and as the oldest person on the excursion once or twice I have been asked discretely by personnel if I am capable. 

 

Well, I guess one cannot be 100% certain, but she was my seat mate on the bus and we got off and on together. She was just behind me when she fell and I know for a fact that the two ship staff from shore excursions who were watching everyone cross did not say anything to her at the time.

 

[iancal]

We are seniors.  Been travelling extensively for the last 10 years.  Never felt targeted.  This past winter we spent seven weeks bouncing around Mexico.  Never a problem, never felt threatened.  Same for SE Asia, Africa, Europe.

 

I believe those who are targeted are people who pay no attention to their  immediate surroundings, do silly things that they would not do at home.  Or those who like to flash lots of cash money or credit cards in their wallets when making a purchase.  Better yet, those who want to wear expensive jewelry and watches when travelling.  Leave them at home in your safe deposit box like we do.  And don't leave your purse or backpack unattended even for a minute when you decide to take a photo.

 

Here at home, in our local Costco, it is not uncommon for someone to have the wallet stolen from their purse.  Look around the clothing area or, in the past, the food sample areas. Lots of purses left wide open.  We far fare middle aged moms doing this that we do seniors.  No different that people hanging bags or purses on the back of chairs in restaurants in Europe-especially outdoor restaurants.

 

Inattentive people are targets for crime, regardless of age, regardless of location.  An organized tour won't change that.

Edited September 5, 2020 by iancal

[Roz]

13 minutes ago, iancal said:

I believe those who are targeted are people who pay no attention to their  immediate surroundings, do silly things that they would not do at home.  Or those who like to flash lots of cash money or credit cards in their wallets when making a purchase.  Better yet, those who want to wear expensive jewelry and watches when travelling.  Leave them at home in your safe deposit box like we do.  And don't leave your purse or backpack unattended even for a minute when you decide to take a photo.

 

I was pickpocketed in Vienna and did none of those things.  Lost 25 euros; it could have been worse.  My tour mates weren't sympathetic and made me feel as though I should have known what was going on and done something about it.  Aren't pickpockets professional thieves?  The mistake I made was not putting the security latch back on my over the body bag after getting something out of it.  The bag was zipped but the thief was able to unzip it and reach in to take the money.  Guess I'm just an idiot.

[Mary229]

If someone feels unsafe maybe it is because they understand their own limitations.  There is nothing wrong with that.   There are congested areas in the world where crime may be more prevalent.  Many people are not accustomed to high density areas and perhaps don't have the skills that some of us have as second nature.  

 

Me, being from a very large city, I absolutely detest visiting big cities.  When the ship lands in an urban area I am seeking an escape.  Some people love that.  I know people who never get off of the ship - C'est la vie.    

[denatravels]

 
I am sorry that you regret posting. It's always good to hear opinions in all directions (as long as they are not putting others down, which I am not sure that the responders to your post were doing....)
 
I think what may have sparked some to respond was your statement "Also consider that as a senior citizen we are considered "targets" for those locals who would do us harm if on our own." 
 
I am not sure I'd agree that senior citizens are 'targeted' by locals in many if not most locations around the world.  I also am a female, and have traveled alone many places in this world including Turkey, Egypt, Tunisia, Morocco, Jordan, Japan, SE Asia, and most western European countries. There is only one time I can think of when I felt "targeted", and no harm came from it ultimately due to quick realization.
 
I have also, when traveling with my mother (who was in her 70s) seen acts of kindness toward seniors such as giving up seats on trams or subways, and even (in Paris heat) offering to let us skip a long queue at a museum. 
 
By the same token, I have witnessed a very spunky and spry 89-year-old lady get badly injured on a shore excursion when the activity was clearly too strenuous/demanding for her. Despite two personnel from the ship being along on the tour, no one stopped her from jumping rock to rock in a shallow cove to get to a ruined site that was half under water. She fell, hit her head on a rock, and required a number of stitches.
 

I am not understanding how crew should be responsible for telling someone not to jump on rocks. She made a choice and got hurt. They weren’t her personal attendants. It’s not their responsibility to make that choice for her. That being said, I hope that they were helpful when she did get hurt.


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[cruisemom42]

3 minutes ago, denatravels said:

I am not understanding how crew should be responsible for telling someone not to jump on rocks. She made a choice and got hurt. They weren’t her personal attendants. It’s not their responsibility to make that choice for her. That being said, I hope that they were helpful when she did get hurt.


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My point is that shore excursions are not necessarily safer. I think some have a false sense of security when on a ship's tour. You can be pickpocketed, or injured either way.

 

 

[bennybear]

Anyone can be pickpocketed.   The only sure way to be safe is to use a money belt under your clothes for valuables. 
my DH was a target at the end of a ships excursion but he grabbed the guy but his throwaway wallet with a few euros was already gone.  He did get it back as the accomplice dropped it.  Never be too smug they are professionals but keep your valuables u see your clothes not in a pocket or purse. 

[drowelf]

9 hours ago, ontheweb said:

I was recently taken to the woodshed for a post I made about Mexican coca cola being the cause of the virus that I thought was so silly that everyone would take it as satire. I did not pick up my keyboard and leave.

Thats often a problem with written (email/forums/etc.) conversations versus in person or even over the phone. You can often tell someone said something in jest or sarcastically from the tone or facial expressions. Neither of which can be adequate expressed here. 

Edited September 5, 2020 by drowelf

[rkacruiser]

3 hours ago, bennybear said:

The only sure way to be safe is to use a money belt under your clothes for valuables. 

 

I use a neck pouch that is under my undershirt and my outer shirt.  I think I would know if someone was reaching under my chin to get access to that pouch.  

[rkacruiser]

3 hours ago, denatravels said:

I am not understanding how crew should be responsible for telling someone not to jump on rocks. She made a choice and got hurt. They weren’t her personal attendants. It’s not their responsibility to make that choice for her. That being said, I hope that they were helpful when she did get hurt.


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I agree that it is not the cruise staff who is accompanying a shore excursion to warn one that what the tour entails is not suitable for them.  Yet, some do.  My experience follows.

 

Venice:  a HAL tour of the city including a tour of the Doges Palace.  I had injured a knee (during a HAL excursion) at Luxor; no fault of HAL or the property.  An Amsterdam Nurse who had been treating me was the tour escort for this Venice tour.  I had difficulty walking the distance from where the tender left us in order to get to St. Mark's Square.  I was the laggard and the Nurse was with me.  (Who knew that those bridges over the canals had steps!  I didn't!)  When we got to the Doges Palace for the tour, the Nurse told me:  "you cannot do this tour; there are too many steps within the Palace.  Sit here (on a bench overlooking the Square) and listen on the headset as best as you can for the tour commentary.  I did.  I heard part of the commentary until the tour got well into the building.  (While waiting, I enjoyed people watching!)  I am thankful for her concern.  

[rkacruiser]

7 hours ago, Roz said:

I was pickpocketed in Vienna

 

Never have had that experience, thankfully.  But, I always try to have a small supply of used tissues in my pockets to "reward" any ***** that decides to "invade" my person.  

[rkacruiser]

3 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

My point is that shore excursions are not necessarily safer. I think some have a false sense of security when on a ship's tour. You can be pickpocketed, or injured either way.

 

 

 

Part of the misconception, I think, is the "icon system" that the cruise lines use to indicate the degree of difficulty of their shore excursions.  What may be a "two person icon" for some might be more challenging for others.  The definitions are not precise.  Unfortunately, some shore excursion staff members are not able to supply much better information.  However, I will give many with whom I have had contact, they do try to do their best.  

[denatravels]

 
I use a neck pouch that is under my undershirt and my outer shirt.  I think I would know if someone was reaching under my chin to get access to that pouch.  

My parents were on the metro in Rome. My dad had someone reach into his front pant pocket and remove his wallet when the doors opened. He had no idea!! My mom saw the whole thing and started to scream. The person freaked, threw the wallet down, and exited the train.


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[ontheweb]

12 hours ago, drowelf said:

Thats often a problem with written (email/forums/etc.) conversations versus in person or even over the phone. You can often tell someone said something in jest or sarcastically from the tone or facial expressions. Neither of which can be adequate expressed here. 

Yes, that was a lesson I learned. Well at least until the next time.🤞

[Roz]

So if you want to buy something you take off your clothes to get to the money belt?  Isn't that advertising to everyone that you have valuables on you?  I left my "valuables" in the ship's safe and just had 25 euros on me for spending money.  Does everyone except me put their money under their clothes in a neck pouch or money belt?

[Mary229]

6 minutes ago, Roz said:

So if you want to buy something you take off your clothes to get to the money belt?  Isn't that advertising to everyone that you have valuables on you?  I left my "valuables" in the ship's safe and just had 25 euros on me for spending money.  Does everyone except me put their money under their clothes in a neck pouch or money belt?

Hi Roz, I take some change and a credit card for Europe, North America. Elsewhere varies by local custom.   I might take my phone in my secure cross body bag designed for crowd safety.   My phone is fingerprint protected.  For extra long trips I get a cheap iPhone and buy a temporary international plan through one of the MVNOs on the TMobile network.   I do wear a neck pouch for id only. 

 

(yes there is such thing as a cheap iPhone😃)

[KirkNC]

19 minutes ago, Roz said:

So if you want to buy something you take off your clothes to get to the money belt?  Isn't that advertising to everyone that you have valuables on you?  I left my "valuables" in the ship's safe and just had 25 euros on me for spending money.  Does everyone except me put their money under their clothes in a neck pouch or money belt?

I used to but quit a number of years ago.  I carry a small pouch with $30-40, a credit card and a debit card in a front Velcro pocket.  I find. It hard to believe someone could get in it without my knowledge.  Heck, I struggle getting it open.  And before I get lectured on the cc and debit card we have backup cards on the ship.

[Lady Arwen]

On 9/4/2020 at 11:46 AM, CherryCupcake said:

Sorry I voiced my opinion.  Put downs are never appreciated.  But as a little old lady pushing 80 who has also traveled the world for many, many years (more than 3000 days at sea, various cruise lines) I am no longer charging forth and unwilling to take risks. As a small woman, over the years enough questionable situations have happened that would probably never be an issue for a man.    From now on I will keep my opinions to myself, and will enjoy to the fullest every cruise I book in these trying times.  I'm so happy cruise opportunities are resuming, even with strict protocol, which is not as everyone would like it to be.  It is time to make your choices.  For many it will be to not cruise because of strict protocols as there are plenty of other travel modes out there.  But I am grateful and very happy to be returning to the sea for the holidays after we return home from a long RV road trip in the US, departing in a few days.  Yes, from now on I will keep opinions to myself.  We all have our preferences. 

I feel the same as you.  Happy to be back sailing and if it means taking the cruiseline excursions, then so be it....a small price to pay (for us) to get back to cruising.  We’ve done the DIY way for many years and enjoyed it immensely, but we’re willing to try the new normal.......not a deal breaker for us by any means.  If it’s not right for you, then you have a choice to not cruise. 

[cruisemom42]

43 minutes ago, Roz said:

So if you want to buy something you take off your clothes to get to the money belt?  Isn't that advertising to everyone that you have valuables on you?  I left my "valuables" in the ship's safe and just had 25 euros on me for spending money.  Does everyone except me put their money under their clothes in a neck pouch or money belt?

 

I use what I call a 'secret pocket':  https://www.amazon.com/Eagle-Creek-Travel-Undercover-Hidden/dp/B0054IH9UC

 

Since I rarely wear dresses when sightseeing this works for me. I pin it (rather than running a belt through the loops) to the inside of my pants or skirt. It is relatively easy to quickly flip it out and retrieve a card or money if needed. I am not a big shopper when traveling, so usually if I need money I am inside a museum or in a restaurant where such an action is pretty inconspicuous.

 

I never take my passport ashore unless the country I'm visiting requires it, and I always take the bare minimum with me. 

 

I always do the above if I am going to be in a city, using public transportation, or visiting any crowded sites. If I know I'm hopping right into a private car and going to some remote and un-touristed location, I may opt instead to use the same 'secret pocket' but pin it INSIDE the interior zipped pocket in my cross-body purse, making it pretty darn inaccessible to anyone trying to make off with it....

 

Edited September 6, 2020 by cruisemom42

[idiebabe]

1 hour ago, KirkNC said:

I used to but quit a number of years ago.  I carry a small pouch with $30-40, a credit card and a debit card in a front Velcro pocket.  I find. It hard to believe someone could get in it without my knowledge.  Heck, I struggle getting it open.  And before I get lectured on the cc and debit card we have backup cards on the ship.

 

A friend did have his Wallet stolen out of his front pocket with velcro in Rome several years ago.  These thieves are "Professionals" and very talented at what they do!  

[TomBeckCruise]

47 minutes ago, idiebabe said:

 

A friend did have his Wallet stolen out of his front pocket with velcro in Rome several years ago.  These thieves are "Professionals" and very talented at what they do!  

 

Yep, the saying is "They give masters degrees in pickpocketing in Barcelona.  PHDs in Rome."

[bennybear]

2 hours ago, Roz said:

So if you want to buy something you take off your clothes to get to the money belt?  Isn't that advertising to everyone that you have valuables on you?  I left my "valuables" in the ship's safe and just had 25 euros on me for spending money.  Does everyone except me put their money under their clothes in a neck pouch or money belt?

Uh no.   We carry enough cash under 50 euros that it wouldn’t ruin our trip to lose it.   And have more and credit card around my waist.    Easy to get at and can go to toilet to restock lol.

dont like the neck  one as is often visible at neck.   
 

Just our experience in decades of European travel without issue.   We saw so many stolen packs in Barcelona it would make your head spin. And from our ship 14 had 

their passports stolen.  

[Roz]

7 minutes ago, bennybear said:

Uh no.   We carry enough cash under 50 euros that it wouldn’t ruin our trip to lose it.   And have more and credit card around my waist.    Easy to get at and can go to toilet to restock lol.

dont like the neck  one as is often visible at neck.   

 

As I said, it was "only" 25 euros.  It was disturbing, though, especially the way I was treated by the others on the tours.  Made me feel like there was something I did to make myself a target or victim.  Like @idiebabesaid, these are professionals.