1st cruise after Covid......a success

[TexasBrit]

2 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

 

 Florida colleges have been is session also, how do college kids do obeying?

I respond only because you asked. Ask the ones at Alabama, U-North Carolina, and a few others which have gone to online classes. Even BYU has problems!

A college campus is just like a cruise ship, close living quarters, large dining facilities, tight seating in lecture halls (theaters), lots of socializing. (As a retired college professor, I can tell you the only people who are more resistant to obeying rules are the faculty!)

 

[jimbo5544]

3 minutes ago, TexasBrit said:

I respond only because you asked. Ask the ones at Alabama, U-North Carolina, and a few others which have gone to online classes. Even BYU has problems!

A college campus is just like a cruise ship, close living quarters, large dining facilities, tight seating in lecture halls (theaters), lots of socializing. (As a retired college professor, I can tell you the only people who are more resistant to obeying rules are the faculty!)

 

It is a cluster.  Hopefully there is a way out, we will see.  

[coevan]

23 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

It is a cluster.  Hopefully there is a way out, we will see.  

 

 

Of course there is a way out, unfortunately it is not a priority to many

[KmomChicago]

6 hours ago, TexasBrit said:

But who were the passengers? All EU, I understand. Does anyone really think that this

would work here? People don't want to follow the rules on masks and distancing in their own locations. Bars are being opened and then shut down again. Watch what happens to the case numbers after Labor Day. Cruises will be no different. The most hopeful course is for the vaccines. Even then people will refuse to get them. There are a substantial number of people who don't even believe the virus death numbers. Sorry to be perceived as negative, but it is reality.

 

 

I also don’t think it will work here based on the current behavior I see here in regular life. I would love to be wrong.
 

I am very happy that somewhere in the world one large cruise line has been successful with a very, very cautious resumption of cruising. I get the point of the original post, a glimmer of hope.

Edited August 30, 2020 by KmomChicago

[Stick93]

There will be glimmers of hope and good stories about cruising in the covid world but let’s not kid ourselves - until there is treatment or a vaccine that significantly reduces the spread and/or symptoms, cruising the way we know it and expect it, will not be happening. 
What could we see going forward – the cruises continue in a bubble like fashion until most likely a passenger will bring it on and pass it to a staff member who will then could become a super spreader. And everybody who is a non-cruiser will look in and say - well what did they think was gonna happen.
It’s just reality. The virus likes people and people spread it. As MOVIELA said above - masks and social distancing don’t stop the spread they only increase your chance of remaining healthy. Some could still get the virus with practicing perfect behavior.  

[MsTabbyKats]

33 minutes ago, Stick93 said:

There will be glimmers of hope and good stories about cruising in the covid world but let’s not kid ourselves - until there is treatment or a vaccine that significantly reduces the spread and/or symptoms, cruising the way we know it and expect it, will not be happening. 
What could we see going forward – the cruises continue in a bubble like fashion until most likely a passenger will bring it on and pass it to a staff member who will then could become a super spreader. And everybody who is a non-cruiser will look in and say - well what did they think was gonna happen.
It’s just reality. The virus likes people and people spread it. As MOVIELA said above - masks and social distancing don’t stop the spread they only increase your chance of remaining healthy. Some could still get the virus with practicing perfect behavior.  

To add....because I don't want to sound like the perpetual downer:

I don't consider the MSC cruise a success....I consider it a "so far...so good"....and maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel.

[logan25]

The world goalpost should not be zero.  It will never be zero.

[Stick93]

32 minutes ago, MsTabbyKats said:

To add....because I don't want to sound like the perpetual downer:

I don't consider the MSC cruise a success....I consider it a "so far...so good"....and maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Very well said.

 

25 minutes ago, logan25 said:

The world goalpost should not be zero.  It will never be zero.

I agree with this but it's a hard pill to swallow and the fear is what drives people's anxiety even more. Lets hope treatment or a vaccine comes and we will be able to digest all this a bit more. 

[sanger727]

5 hours ago, logan25 said:

The world goalpost should not be zero.  It will never be zero.

it may be zero or close someday but no time soon. I have no problem with the acceptance that some Covid spread is inevitable. And the goal is simply to limit this as much as possible and manage it when it occurs. We have had people coming down with Covid at work and we don’t shut down over it. Just to the best we can to monitor, prevent, and manage spread. The problem is that I haven’t seen a post Covid sailing where there was Covid on the ship where it was managed well. That will be the true challenge. So far it’s simply lead to immediately cancelled sailings, quarantines, etc. I would like to see a cruise line show that they have policies in place so if there is a Covid positive person found on a ship, they will be able to continue on in some way. Like how noro outbreaks were handled in the past.

[Isasprings]

On 8/29/2020 at 10:04 AM, Joebucks said:

 

Isn't it amazing how we know this? Just like we know EVERYONE in the protests wear one. Even though there is plenty of video evidence out there that says otherwise.

 

Anywho, I'm glad to hear this news. A massive step towards convincing the world cruising is not as dangerous as the panic has led us to believe.

I agree with you, about a month ago I went to visit my family (6) live in the house I was wearing a mask, my in-laws after a few minutes told me they were not feeling well better for me to leave just in case. A couple of days later they get tested 4 of them were positive for covid. I stay in my home for 2 weeks waiting if I was going get sick.

My antibodies test( covid) came back negative. My doctor said not everyone who is exposed to the virus get it. Thank God all my family are fine now. (2) of them never got it.

[ontheweb]

6 hours ago, sanger727 said:

it may be zero or close someday but no time soon. I have no problem with the acceptance that some Covid spread is inevitable. And the goal is simply to limit this as much as possible and manage it when it occurs. We have had people coming down with Covid at work and we don’t shut down over it. Just to the best we can to monitor, prevent, and manage spread. The problem is that I haven’t seen a post Covid sailing where there was Covid on the ship where it was managed well. That will be the true challenge. So far it’s simply lead to immediately cancelled sailings, quarantines, etc. I would like to see a cruise line show that they have policies in place so if there is a Covid positive person found on a ship, they will be able to continue on in some way. Like how noro outbreaks were handled in the past.

They could not even handle a FALSE positive without shutting down entirely.

[jetsfan58]

I am still a bit perplexed about denying the other paying passengers that rode with this young man. Were they also tested? Did the Cruise line assume they were all positive? There is something about "human rights" vs "ship rights" that isn't being made clear? I just see "law suits are us" in the future.  

[PhillyFan33579]

10 minutes ago, jetsfan58 said:

I am still a bit perplexed about denying the other paying passengers that rode with this young man. Were they also tested? Did the Cruise line assume they were all positive? There is something about "human rights" vs "ship rights" that isn't being made clear? I just see "law suits are us" in the future.  

Every cruise contract I have read (I always read them the first time I sail on a cruise line I have never sailed on) includes language similar to the cruise line can deny boarding to anyone they consider a health risk. Based on the current knowledge of this virus, it would have been irresponsible for MSC to allow passengers who travelled in a van with a person who tested positive for COVID-19 to board the ship. 

[jetsfan58]

3 minutes ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

Every cruise contract I have read (I always read them the first time I sail on a cruise line I have never sailed on) includes language similar to the cruise line can deny boarding to anyone they consider a health risk. Based on the current knowledge of this virus, it would have been irresponsible for MSC to allow passengers who travelled in a van with a person who tested positive for COVID-19 to board the ship. 

I also understand the fine contractual print and have read it many times. Wouldn't you want to know if you were positive or negative? Wouldn't you insist on being tested? I just feel that this is still "unexplored" area that will need much more focus. Covid has changed many conventional rules that we once followed. Why wouldn't the Cruise Industry revisit their rulings? 

 

I guess my passionate side is showing. I have never allowed profit and "the need for good press" to come before people and their rights.    

[jetsfan58]

2 minutes ago, K&RCurt said:

I am a skeptical pessimist by nature, but I can clearly see this thread as starting off showing s glimmer of hope for cruising to slowly come back.

 

It boggles my mind to see so many people more skeptical and pessimistic than I ever thought of being with a huge dose of cycnicism thrown in.

 

No one said this one cruise showed the cruise industry was ready to come roaring back next week, just pointed out a cruise happened and nothing horrible occured.  I can't see how this is not a cause for some glimmer of hope!

 

Of course this is CC, so what should I have expected other than criticism for the OP, reasons why this isn't a legitimate good sign and even some good ole Carnival bashing thrown in for good measure?

 

If this can give ME the msob that I am a bit of hope, I feel bad for those that do not see it.

This where we differ and I certainly respect your viewpoints. Something horrible did actually occur. These people that rode to the terminal with this young man may or may not have known him? Were they all family members or just unfortunate passengers trying to get to their hard earned vacations? This episode had to be very traumatic for them to have been denied boarding. Do we know if all riders wore masks? I just think its a bit "hasty" to automatically assume that they are also positive without testing proof.  Call me paranoid or whatever you think fits the moment; however, somethings not right with this "hastened" type of judgement. I just see a lot of discussion that needs to happen and not be avoided because the Industry wants to quickly get back to Cruising.     

[PhillyFan33579]

43 minutes ago, jetsfan58 said:

I guess my passionate side is showing. I have never allowed profit and "the need for good press" to come before people and their rights.    

The decision by MSC was not profit driven, since denying boarding to passengers cost them money. If it was simply about money, MSC would have allowed the rest of the passengers in the van to board the ship since they tested negative. However, MSC did the right thing in my opinion denying boarding to passengers who had been in close proximity for hours to a person who tested positive.

 

 I think every cruise line is going to be extremely cautious when it comes to situations like this one for the forseeable future. MSC also did the right thing in my opinion not letting the passengers who left their excursion group back on the ship.

 

Concerning your comment about people and their rights, I think passengers have the right to expect cruise lines to take all actions possible to reduce the likelihood of a COVID-19 outbreak during a cruise. 

[sanger727]

1 hour ago, jetsfan58 said:

I am still a bit perplexed about denying the other paying passengers that rode with this young man. Were they also tested? Did the Cruise line assume they were all positive? There is something about "human rights" vs "ship rights" that isn't being made clear? I just see "law suits are us" in the future.  

 

I don't really want to rehash this debate since you refuse to acknowledge the facts and instead stick to what "feels right" to you. But no, there was no need to assume they were positive. A close contact is defined by the CDC as being within 6 feet of a positive person for at least 15 minutes. If they were in a van for at least 15 minutes, they were "close contacts" which necessitates a quarantine. You WILL not test positive immediately after the van ride. Doesn't mean you didn't catch it. You won't know if you caught it for several days. They could retest then but the cruise would most likely have been over already.

[jetsfan58]

1 minute ago, sanger727 said:

 

I don't really want to rehash this debate since you refuse to acknowledge the facts and instead stick to what "feels right" to you. But no, there was no need to assume they were positive. A close contact is defined by the CDC as being within 6 feet of a positive person for at least 15 minutes. If they were in a van for at least 15 minutes, they were "close contacts" which necessitates a quarantine. You WILL not test positive immediately after the van ride. Doesn't mean you didn't catch it. You won't know if you caught it for several days. They could retest then but the cruise would most likely have been over already.

The total fact is that the Cruise line did not try and prove that they were positive. Again are we to assume that everyone that boards a Cruise ship and tests "negative" at that moment are presumed not to show symptoms tomorrow? It's not that I refuse to accept the rules I just refuse to look away from both sides of this equation. You have to look at safety for all, the Cruise Lines interest and the passenger interest. Hasty and Unsubstantiated rulings are never just.    

[sanger727]

2 minutes ago, jetsfan58 said:

The total fact is that the Cruise line did not try and prove that they were positive. 

 

They don't need to. The burden is currently on the passenger to prove they are negative to board. The assumption of boarding has reversed. It's not longer you get to board and the cruise line has to prove your are unfit to stop you. It's currently, if you want to board you must prove you are fit to board.  If you just had an exposure it's impossible to prove you are negative, therefore you will not board. If this is difficult for you to accept then you shouldn't book cruises. It's how it should be, will be, and will be legally required to be for the near future when cruising does restart. You can complain about your "rights" all you want, won't change it. 

[jetsfan58]

32 minutes ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

The decision by MSC was not profit driven, since denying boarding to passengers cost them money. If it was simply about money, MSC would have allowed the rest of the passengers in the van to board the ship since they tested negative. However, MSC did the right thing in my opinion denying boarding to passengers who had been in close proximity for hours to a person who tested positive.

 

 I think every cruise line is going to be extremely cautious when it comes to situations like this one for the forseeable future. MSC also did the right thing in my opinion not letting the passengers who left their excursion group back on the ship.

 

Concerning your comment about people and their rights, I think passengers have the right to expect cruise lines to take all actions possible to reduce the likelihood of a COVID-19 outbreak during a cruise. 

What about the passengers losses and costs? Do you think they feel good about being denied without being tested, having to suddenly pay additional monies to get back home, possibly additional food, lodging, rental car/shuttle/Uber fees, without Criuse protection maybe additional costs to re-book and more importantly that "helpless" feeling that you just experienced one of the most traumatic episodes in life?

 

We need to look at all sides of the equation before we accept the "normalcy" in this type of decision.   

[Dermotsgirl]

1 minute ago, jetsfan58 said:

What about the passengers losses and costs? Do you think they feel good about being denied without being tested, having to suddenly pay additional monies to get back home, possibly additional food, lodging, rental car/shuttle/Uber fees, without Criuse protection maybe additional costs to re-book and more importantly that "helpless" feeling that you just experienced one of the most traumatic episodes in life?

 

We need to look at all sides of the equation before we accept the "normalcy" in this type of decision.   

Everybody who is willing to go on a cruise in the covid era, has to accept the possibility that they may be denied boarding.  It's the way things are now.

 

Yes, it may well be stressful, traumatic and possibly expensive, but people will have to realise that these things will happen, and it may well happen to them personally.  

 

I don't want these things to happen to me, so I'm not going to to take the risk and don't intend going on a cruise for quite a long time to come.

 

 

[St.Pete]

On 8/28/2020 at 5:20 PM, jimbo5544 said:

While it is not Carnival, we ALL should take solace that the first cruise from a large cruise line was a flat out success.  

 

 

https://cruisefever.net/cruise-lines-first-cruise-back-was-a-success/

Too soon to know if this is a "FLAT OUT" success.

[sanger727]

16 minutes ago, jetsfan58 said:

What about the passengers losses and costs? Do you think they feel good about being denied without being tested, having to suddenly pay additional monies to get back home, possibly additional food, lodging, rental car/shuttle/Uber fees, without Criuse protection maybe additional costs to re-book and more importantly that "helpless" feeling that you just experienced one of the most traumatic episodes in life?

 

We need to look at all sides of the equation before we accept the "normalcy" in this type of decision.   

 

I agree that this results in a horrible situation for the passengers and could have huge losses. The biggest part that you are leaving out is that you may not even be able to return home. If you are the one that tests positive, a plane isn't going to let you on to go home. So you may get stuck paying for a hotel to "quarantine" for two weeks where you can't even leave the room. 

 

This is exactly why I don't plan on booking a cruise that requires testing. That's a decision that people have to make for themselves, but they should be educated about the possible outcomes beforehand. 

[PhillyFan33579]

38 minutes ago, jetsfan58 said:

What about the passengers losses and costs? Do you think they feel good about being denied without being tested, having to suddenly pay additional monies to get back home, possibly additional food, lodging, rental car/shuttle/Uber fees, without Criuse protection maybe additional costs to re-book and more importantly that "helpless" feeling that you just experienced one of the most traumatic episodes in life?

 

We need to look at all sides of the equation before we accept the "normalcy" in this type of decision.   

 
There is no other side. In the current environment we are dealing with, there is no way any cruise line is going to allow anyone on the ship who was exposed to someone who tested positive for COVID-19. If you don’t like the rules cruise lines are implementing to protect against a COVID-19 outbreak, now is probably not the time for you to book a cruise. There is no doubt every cruise line is going to have rules similar to MSC when they resume operations, unless things drastically change prior to a cruise line resuming operations. 

[ontheweb]

7 minutes ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

 
There is no other side. In the current environment we are dealing with, there is no way any cruise line is going to allow anyone on the ship who was exposed to someone who tested positive for COVID-19. If you don’t like the rules cruise lines are implementing to protect against a COVID-19 outbreak, now is probably not the time for you to book a cruise. There is no doubt every cruise line is going to have rules similar to MSC when they resume operations, unless things drastically change prior to a cruise line resuming operations. 

And how will everyone feel if and when something like this occurs and then it is discovered that it was a FALSE positive?