Vacinated. COVID test required?

[KirkNC]

29 minutes ago, Tranquility Base said:

 

I have a feeling vaccine deployment and usage is going to be a longer process than some people expect.

I agree 100%.  Even Fauci says it will take into 2022 to get everyone vaccinated.

[Smokeyham]

Quantas Airlines has already stated that they will require proof of vaccination prior to allowing boarding, and I would not be surprised to see a requirement both of proof of vaccination and also a recent negative Covid test prior to cruise ship boarding.   

 

As others have said, the cruise lines have to rebuild trust with the general public that cruising is safe and have to get past the "floating petri dish" impression that many now have about cruising.

Edited November 29, 2020 by Smokeyham

[Daniel A]

On 9/27/2020 at 5:30 AM, GICNJC said:

Perhaps I missed it reading the broad new health rules from the major lines.  They all talk about testing, but what will the protocol be once we get vaccinated? 

I read through the framework document and the CDC isn't even hinting at protocols they'll want once a vaccine is available.  I suspect the cruise lines are waiting to see how CDC adjusts the framework once that happens.  Right now, it's the CDC framework that has a huge emphasis on pre embarkation and pre disembarkation test requirements.

 

I don't believe that a cruise line requiring proof of vaccination violates HIPAA, they've been requiring proof of other vaccinations all along depending on the itinerary.

Edited November 30, 2020 by Daniel A

[skaway]

I have a cruise (Baltic) for September 2021 using my cruise credit from a canceled trip.  My wife is 82 and I am 80 and I recently had a abdominal area surgery, not involving cancer as a result of the findings.  So....  If this cruise is canceled will I be able to get a refund.  Do plan to get vac. but could get a Dr letter stating I should not cruise plus I would be older.   Don’t want cruise credit again.

[KirkNC]

22 minutes ago, skaway said:

I have a cruise (Baltic) for September 2021 using my cruise credit from a canceled trip.  My wife is 82 and I am 80 and I recently had a abdominal area surgery, not involving cancer as a result of the findings.  So....  If this cruise is canceled will I be able to get a refund.  Do plan to get vac. but could get a Dr letter stating I should not cruise plus I would be older.   Don’t want cruise credit again.

I believe you can.  Any 25% bonus you may have received will be forfeited but your actual cash outlay should be refunded if requested.

[njhorseman]

53 minutes ago, skaway said:

I have a cruise (Baltic) for September 2021 using my cruise credit from a canceled trip.  My wife is 82 and I am 80 and I recently had a abdominal area surgery, not involving cancer as a result of the findings.  So....  If this cruise is canceled will I be able to get a refund.  Do plan to get vac. but could get a Dr letter stating I should not cruise plus I would be older.   Don’t want cruise credit again.

 

30 minutes ago, KirkNC said:

I believe you can.  Any 25% bonus you may have received will be forfeited but your actual cash outlay should be refunded if requested.

Unfortunately it appears that once you've accepted a Future Cruise Credit for for a canceled cruise you can no longer receive a cash refund for any subsequent canceled cruises. This is also true for Oceania's corporate sister, NCL, and has been discussed and verified a number of times on the NCL board.

 

https://www.oceaniacruises.com/coronavirus-statement

 

"If your reservation has been deposited or paid in full utilizing a previously issued Future Cruise Credit, your Future Cruise Credit will be re-issued for the amount that was applied. Future Cruise Credits are not redeemable for cash refunds."

Edited December 2, 2020 by njhorseman

[Daniel A]

17 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

 

Unfortunately it appears that once you've accepted a Future Cruise Credit for for a canceled cruise you can no longer receive a cash refund for any subsequent canceled cruises. This is also true for Oceania's corporate sister, NCL, and has been discussed and verified a number of times on the NCL board.

 

https://www.oceaniacruises.com/coronavirus-statement

 

"If your reservation has been deposited or paid in full utilizing a previously issued Future Cruise Credit, your Future Cruise Credit will be re-issued for the amount that was applied. Future Cruise Credits are not redeemable for cash refunds."

Is it possible that a cash refund could be issued if Oceania cancels instead of the passenger?

[njhorseman]

Just now, Daniel A said:

Is it possible that a cash refund could be issued if Oceania cancels instead of the passenger?

No, because the customer had the option to accept a cash refund initially and the terms have consistently said "once an FCC, always an FCC" (to paraphrase).

[GICNJC]

5 hours ago, njhorseman said:

 

Unfortunately it appears that once you've accepted a Future Cruise Credit for for a canceled cruise you can no longer receive a cash refund for any subsequent canceled cruises. This is also true for Oceania's corporate sister, NCL, and has been discussed and verified a number of times on the NCL board.

 

https://www.oceaniacruises.com/coronavirus-statement

 

"If your reservation has been deposited or paid in full utilizing a previously issued Future Cruise Credit, your Future Cruise Credit will be re-issued for the amount that was applied. Future Cruise Credits are not redeemable for cash refunds."

While this made be true in NCL if you pay by credit card where you live (I'm in Ontario) your provincial laws may allow for a cash rebate if you reside in Ontario.  Our law requires completion of service or a refund to your credit card.  This consumer law has specific actions reqirements but laws of other jurisdictions do not apply. 

[njhorseman]

44 minutes ago, GICNJC said:

While this made be true in NCL if you pay by credit card where you live (I'm in Ontario) your provincial laws may allow for a cash rebate if you reside in Ontario.  Our law requires completion of service or a refund to your credit card.  This consumer law has specific actions reqirements but laws of other jurisdictions do not apply. 

I don't pretend to know anything about the law in Ontario, but there's a flaw in your argument. The cruiser was offered a cash (or credit card) refund for the original canceled cruise but refused it and instead chose FCC in lieu of cash. The terms and conditions of that FCC constitute a contract, which the cruiser agreed to upon accepting the FCC. The contract states that once the FCC is accepted you are not subsequently entitled to a cash refund. Remember that the subsequent cruise was not paid by cash or credit card but by FCC and the FCC is not refundable per the contract.

 

[Daniel A]

11 hours ago, njhorseman said:

The terms and conditions of that FCC constitute a contract, which the cruiser agreed to upon accepting the FCC. The contract states that once the FCC is accepted you are not subsequently entitled to a cash refund. Remember that the subsequent cruise was not paid by cash or credit card but by FCC and the FCC is not refundable per the contract.

As I understand it, if the customer takes no action upon cancellation by the line, the cruise line arbitrarily decides that you chose FCC rather than the passenger indicating that choice.  The cruise line only presumed you chose FCC.  I'm not sure the passenger agrees to anything.  I would think that if they cancel the 'replacement' cruise as well, they would need to offer the same terms and conditions they offered when they cancelled the first cruise, but I'm not a lawyer either.  I also thought I read elsewhere that if you subsequently request the cash you get the cash back which was paid but you lose the 25% that was added to the FCC.

 

On a related point, If you use FCC to book a replacement sailing and the line cancels that one too, do you get another 25% increase to the FCC?

[LHT28]

14 hours ago, GICNJC said:

While this made be true in NCL if you pay by credit card where you live (I'm in Ontario) your provincial laws may allow for a cash rebate if you reside in Ontario.  Our law requires completion of service or a refund to your credit card.  This consumer law has specific actions reqirements but laws of other jurisdictions do not apply. 

Do you have a link to this law?

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, Daniel A said:

As I understand it, if the customer takes no action upon cancellation by the line, the cruise line arbitrarily decides that you chose FCC rather than the passenger indicating that choice.  The cruise line only presumed you chose FCC.  I'm not sure the passenger agrees to anything.  I would think that if they cancel the 'replacement' cruise as well, they would need to offer the same terms and conditions they offered when they cancelled the first cruise, but I'm not a lawyer either.  I also thought I read elsewhere that if you subsequently request the cash you get the cash back which was paid but you lose the 25% that was added to the FCC.

 

On a related point, If you use FCC to book a replacement sailing and the line cancels that one too, do you get another 25% increase to the FCC?

It's not as if the cruise lines don't inform you of your options. You have the opportunity to elect a refund rather than FCC so unless a court were to rule  the provision that states your failure to do so means you've accepted the FCC  is unfair and unconscionable then the presumption is valid.  It's your responsibility as  a consumer to read and understand the provisions of any contract you enter in to.

 

You can't subsequently request cash back past the deadline stated in the cancellation notice.  For example the notice for latest round of cancellations states "Refunds in lieu of Future Cruise Credits for voyages listed above must be requested no later than close of business on December 16, 2020." 

 

The 25% "bonus" FCC only applies to cruises paid in full by cash, credit card or check. You don't get a 25% bonus on a cruise paid by FCC, so there's no stacking of another 25% bonus on top of the 25% bonus you already received.

Edited December 3, 2020 by njhorseman

[LHT28]

1 hour ago, Daniel A said:

As I understand it, if the customer takes no action upon cancellation by the line, the cruise line arbitrarily decides that you chose FCC rather than the passenger indicating that choice.  The cruise line only presumed you chose FCC. 

 

If you do not want the FCC   then you have to notify Oceania by Dec 16th but I think that only applies to those that did not use an FCC to pay for the cruise that is now cancelled

{Refunds in lieu of Future Cruise Credits for voyages listed above must be requested no later than close of business on December 16, 2020.}

All is spelled out  at their website

https://www.oceaniacruises.com/coronavirus-statement

[GICNJC]

On 12/2/2020 at 8:27 PM, njhorseman said:

I don't pretend to know anything about the law in Ontario, but there's a flaw in your argument. The cruiser was offered a cash (or credit card) refund for the original canceled cruise but refused it and instead chose FCC in lieu of cash. The terms and conditions of that FCC constitute a contract, which the cruiser agreed to upon accepting the FCC. The contract states that once the FCC is accepted you are not subsequently entitled to a cash refund. Remember that the subsequent cruise was not paid by cash or credit card but by FCC and the FCC is not refundable per the contract.

 

Ontario law covers future credits and the consumers right to take cash refund if they so desire if what the originally purchased is not provided.

[Paulchili]

18 minutes ago, GICNJC said:

Ontario law covers future credits and the consumers right to take cash refund if they so desire if what the originally purchased is not provided.

I am not a lawyer but I would be surprised if this were true.

As pointed out in NJhorseman’s post, the customer had at one point an opportunity to choose a refund or FCC. Once FCC was chosen nobody can pretend that this didn’t happen and the customer entered into a new contract that he/she agreed to voluntarily knowing the terms of this contract.

IMO it is similar to a situation where the customer entered a penalty phase for cancellation and now wants a full refund ignoring the terms of a contract he/she entered into..

JMO.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Paulchili

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, GICNJC said:

Ontario law covers future credits and the consumers right to take cash refund if they so desire if what the originally purchased is not provided.

It's not as if the cruise line forced the customer to take the FCC. The customer was offered a full refund but opted for the FCC instead. That would satisfy the requirement . 

 

It's impossible to argue about what something means without the words being in front of me to read, but I'd suggest that the cruiser's acceptance of either the cash refund or the FCC terminates the original contract and the customer's acceptance of the FCC creates  a new contract that specifically states FCC can't be converted to a cash refund. The customer who accepts the FCC has received something of value, a 25% FCC bonus, in return for accepting the nonrefundable condition, and that should make it a valid contract. 

[LHT28]

2 hours ago, GICNJC said:

Ontario law covers future credits and the consumers right to take cash refund if they so desire if what the originally purchased is not provided.

I am not sure the law covers purchased made to a company outside of Ontario

Is this what you are talking about ?

https://www.ontario.ca/page/your-rights-when-signing-or-cancelling-contract

[Daniel A]

11 hours ago, Paulchili said:

As pointed out in NJhorseman’s post, the customer had at one point an opportunity to choose a refund or FCC. Once FCC was chosen nobody can pretend that this didn’t happen and the customer entered into a new contract that he/she agreed to voluntarily knowing the terms of this contract.

 

9 hours ago, njhorseman said:

The customer was offered a full refund but opted for the FCC instead. That would satisfy the requirement . 

 

It's impossible to argue about what something means without the words being in front of me to read, but I'd suggest that the cruiser's acceptance of either the cash refund or the FCC terminates the original contract and the customer's acceptance of the FCC creates  a new contract that specifically states FCC can't be converted to a cash refund. 

Again, I'm not a lawyer either, but the standard response when a vendor is unable to fulfill a contract is to issue a refund.  That's not what has been happening here.  If the cruise line didn't get any response to an offer of either a refund or FCC, the cruise line arbitrarily considers that to be a request for FCC when no such request was formally made.  It's almost as if the cruise line already has your credit card info on file and they send you an e-mail offering a cruise for a certain price but if you don't decline the offer in writing, then they consider that you agreed to accept the offer and they bill you for the cruise.  My belief is that in the absence of an acceptance in writing of FCC in lieu of cash already paid that it is merely a non response, not acceptance of a 'new contract.'  I've never heard in any other industry where if an an offer for something is made, if the consumer doesn't reject the offer in writing then it is legally considered that the offer was accepted and creates a binding contract.  Again I'm not a lawyer so I could be all wet on this, but if somebody did this to me, I'd be contacting a real lawyer...

[pinotlover]

Why would the laws of Ontario apply here? 
 

This sounds like some Americans  talking about the ADA or HIPPA while in Cambodia.

[njhorseman]

36 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

 

Again, I'm not a lawyer either, but the standard response when a vendor is unable to fulfill a contract is to issue a refund.  That's not what has been happening here.  If the cruise line didn't get any response to an offer of either a refund or FCC, the cruise line arbitrarily considers that to be a request for FCC when no such request was formally made.  It's almost as if the cruise line already has your credit card info on file and they send you an e-mail offering a cruise for a certain price but if you don't decline the offer in writing, then they consider that you agreed to accept the offer and they bill you for the cruise.  My belief is that in the absence of an acceptance in writing of FCC in lieu of cash already paid that it is merely a non response, not acceptance of a 'new contract.'  I've never heard in any other industry where if an an offer for something is made, if the consumer doesn't reject the offer in writing then it is legally considered that the offer was accepted and creates a binding contract.  Again I'm not a lawyer so I could be all wet on this, but if somebody did this to me, I'd be contacting a real lawyer...

OK...I'm out of the discussion. 

I won't spend any more time arguing about laws that people think exist but no one can cite.

[GICNJC]

18 hours ago, LHT28 said:

I am not sure the law covers purchased made to a company outside of Ontario

Is this what you are talking about ?

https://www.ontario.ca/page/your-rights-when-signing-or-cancelling-contract

Yes.  It also allows for a statutory chargeback on your credit card payment (specific process rules to follow) any penalties for credit card issuer if not provided.

[Shawnino]

On 12/4/2020 at 9:47 AM, pinotlover said:

Why would the laws of Ontario apply here? 
 

This sounds like some Americans  talking about the ADA or HIPPA while in Cambodia.

 

I have no opinion on whether or not this law exists. I certainly can't find it.

 

But there are (at least) two relationships here which might be relevant:

--relationship between cruiser and cruise line (domiciled in Liberia or Bahamas or wherever)

--relationship between client and credit card issuer (which may or may not be domiciled in client's home province, and may or may not have to agree to uphold certain consumer protections in return for doing business in same)

[Daniel A]

Getting away from refunds and returning to the topic here, I am wondering if you're vaccinated will you be required to still wear a mask?  Since the typical mask in use now only protects the other people not the wearer, I wonder why I would still need to wear a mask on a ship.  Will I still need to wear a mask in order to protect the anti vaxxers?  Or will those who didn't get vaccinated need to wear their own N95 mask which is designed to protect the wearer?

Edited December 7, 2020 by Daniel A

[pinotlover]

Daniel;

 

I believe you’re making a false assumption. If you’re not vaccinated, you won’t be on the ship. There won’t be anti vaxers aboard to worry about. Masks will then disappear.

 

I believe to add to this, my next cruise with pre and post cruise tours on O is now priced at over $15K each. Why in the world would we want to pay that kind of money to go on a cruise where everyone isn’t vaccinated? Not a health precaution for us, but to avert some yo-yos from having the ship diverted and maybe cancelled because of an outbreak aboard. 

Edited December 7, 2020 by pinotlover