What do you miss about cruising?

[lenquixote66]

7 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

You should visit New Haven, CT if you are interested in superior pizza (more specifically: "apizza").

I have been to New Haven many times but never for pizza.

[clo]

28 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

You should visit New Haven, CT if you are interested in superior pizza (more specifically: "apizza").

I used to be on a food site and that was always the top rec!

[navybankerteacher]

39 minutes ago, lenquixote66 said:

I have been to New Haven many times but never for pizza.

I cannot imagine any other reason for going to New Haven - except, perhaps to watch Harvard whup the Bulldogs in the Yale Bowl.

[lenquixote66]

15 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

I cannot imagine any other reason for going to New Haven - except, perhaps to watch Harvard whup the Bulldogs in the Yale Bowl.

We had good friends who lived in New Britain.We went with them to New Haven every time we met in CT.

[Aquahound]

On 11/11/2020 at 11:09 AM, SelectSys said:

How about you?  What do you miss?

 

Balcony breakfast on those nice warm mornings while out at sea.  

 

[lenquixote66]

Just now, Aquahound said:

 

Balcony breakfast on those nice warm mornings while out at sea.  

 

That looks good but we never did that.We are surrounded by water bodies where we live and if we have breakfast on our deck it is similiar.

[navybankerteacher]

Those occasions when we have selected traditional dining and have wound up with a compatible table.  Having dinners - and conversations - with a group you get to know increasingly well is a social experience far superior than merely filling your face with the same person you usually eat with.

 

For some, eating with others seems to be a big turn-off;  perhaps it is having had childhood meals as a member of a large family,  common meals with classmates in school, college mates in university residence hall, wardroom mess aboard ship, and common table in the officers’ dining room at the bank where I spent many years.

[ontheweb]

13 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Those occasions when we have selected traditional dining and have wound up with a compatible table.  Having dinners - and conversations - with a group you get to know increasingly well is a social experience far superior than merely filling your face with the same person you usually eat with.

 

For some, eating with others seems to be a big turn-off;  perhaps it is having had childhood meals as a member of a large family,  common meals with classmates in school, college mates in university residence hall, wardroom mess aboard ship, and common table in the officers’ dining room at the bank where I spent many years.

OTOH, some of us like meeting new people every dinner using anytime dining.

[Cruzaholic41]

I miss those wonderful dinners spent alone with my DH. We spend a lot of time with friends and extended family in our day-to-day life, so we find those nice, quiet dinners at a 2-top refreshing and somewhat romantic. It’s a far superior experience than getting stuck with folks who think everyone should be like them. 

Edited November 20, 2020 by Cruzaholic41

[Cruzaholic41]

On 11/19/2020 at 11:18 AM, Aquahound said:

 

Balcony breakfast on those nice warm mornings while out at sea.  

 

Man, what I would give to be sitting at that table right now!  
 

Solstice, right?  Makes it even better. 😍

[Hlitner]

DW and I have spent more then 3 years of our lives on cruise ships.   There are many things we love about cruising but #1 for us would be the socialization, making new friends, meeting interesting folks, etc.   When we look back on our more then 100 cruises the most memorable ones have been the cruises where we have made some terrific new friends.  After hundreds of ports and over 70 vessels it can be difficult to remember what's what.  But we remember our favorite people and always love when we run into old cruise mates on another cruise.  

 

Hank

[SelectSys]

11 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

DW and I have spent more then 3 years of our lives on cruise ships... When we look back on our more then 100 cruises the most memorable ones have been the cruises where we have made some terrific new friends...

 

While I don't have your cruise count, I agree with your conclusion.

[Hlitner]

10 hours ago, SelectSys said:

 

While I don't have your cruise count, I agree with your conclusion.

Well, our "cruise count" is sure not increasing.  Just yesterday we had another cruise (28 days on HAL) cancelled by the cruise line (this officially makes 5 cancelled cruises totally over 100 days).  But for the first time since last February I am feeling some optimism about the future and think we might see some return to normalcy in the 2nd half of 2022.

 

Hank 

[clo]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Well, our "cruise count" is sure not increasing.  Just yesterday we had another cruise (28 days on HAL) cancelled by the cruise line (this officially makes 5 cancelled cruises totally over 100 days).  But for the first time since last February I am feeling some optimism about the future and think we might see some return to normalcy in the 2nd half of 2022.

 

Hank 

I'm glad to see some seasoned travelers like y'all being cautious. It amazes me still that there are people here who would cruise any time. Like first/second quarter 2021.

[Hlitner]

15 minutes ago, clo said:

I'm glad to see some seasoned travelers like y'all being cautious. It amazes me still that there are people here who would cruise any time. Like first/second quarter 2021.

Perhaps I am less critical of those folks then you :).  Since last February when it became obvious the world had a problem with COVID, we have simply taken a wait and see attitude while trying to educate ourselves about the details of this nasty virus.  I will give a lot of credit to DW who quickly saw this as a serious game changer and warned me back in early February that this virus would change everything!  At the time I thought she was overstating the situation...but she had it right!  By last July I finally came to the realization that cruising on mass market ships was not going to be a good idea until there was a safe/effective vaccine which would be a mandatory requirement for cruisers.  Nothing I have heard since last summer has changed my mind to the extent that I think mass market cruising is doomed to failure until we have a vaccine.   My background in the medical insurance industry also led me to believe that a safe/effective vaccine was not likely for several years (until now there has never been any vaccine developed and brought to market in under 3 years and 8 years is the norm).  

 

It now appears very likely that we will soon have several vaccines (the miracle and genius of our scientists cannot be overstated) which would make some degree of normalcy possible in the latter half of 2021.  DW and I still believe that current travel is very possible and relatively safe if folks use a lot of common sense and follow the basic rules of social distancing, hand washing, and mask wearing in cases where social distancing is not possible.  None of this works on mass market cruise ships where social distancing, on a normal basis,  is almost impossible.  

While I agree with you that cruising in the first quarter of 2021 is nutz, I can see the possibility of some 2nd quarter cruising depending on the rapid availability of vaccines  As to the CDC's Guidelines.....I have read the entire document a few times and think it is one of the most ridiculous CYA government documents I have ever seen (and I worked in government for over 35 years a read many lousy documents).    If it is even possible for a cruise line to comply with all the guidelines and actually have a cruise...it would not be a cruise for real cruisers.  It would like trying to play baseball without a bat or glove.  One would still have a ball to toss around (and perhaps hit with their hand) but it would not be baseball.

 

Hank

[iancal]

We will be surprised if cruising starts up in April.  Suspect it will more likely be toward the end of Q2 or Q3 before the first 7 day US cruises operate.

 

We have zero interest in being the first to jump on a ship.  We are hope to be able to travel internationally in Sept/Oct of 2021 but cannot see ourselves even considering a cruise before 2022.

 

We are happy to do our own thing until the cruise market and the cruise environment shakes out a little.

[Hlitner]

16 minutes ago, iancal said:

We will be surprised if cruising starts up in April.  Suspect it will more likely be toward the end of Q2 or Q3 before the first 7 day US cruises operate.

 

We have zero interest in being the first to jump on a ship.  We are hope to be able to travel internationally in Sept/Oct of 2021 but cannot see ourselves even considering a cruise before 2022.

 

We are happy to do our own thing until the cruise market and the cruise environment shakes out a little.

We feel the same although I do see the possibility of taking a long European driving trip in April or May....assuming we can get a vaccine prior to the trip and that Europe would open up to tourism.  As much as we love cruising we also love our independent European driving trips.  We tend to drive to areas not normally accessible by cruising and really enjoy the dining and wining we experience when on our own.  Since HAL just cancelled (yesterday) our April cruise we now have no cruises scheduled until Oct 2021 and I cannot imagine we would even think about booking another cruise prior to that date.  

 

Many here on CC may not realize that although there has been a lot of posts about Princess and HAL cancelling all cruises through March 31, that is only part of the story.  Many cruises through the fall of 2021 have also been cancelled because of other restrictions.  Asia has been effectively eliminated as a cruise destination for all of 2021 (with some small chance there could be a few cruises in the latter part of 2021) as has Australia and NZ.  HAL has already cancelled its popular Voyage of the Vikings cruise scheduled for next July (this would not be possible with the current CDC Guidelines).  This all begs the question of whether the major cruise lines can survive another year without the revenue derived from the resumption of operations.  

 

Hank

[iancal]

Financial viability is a very good question.  Carnival Corp is about to close on their worst financial year ever.   RCI is right behind them.  There is no definite start up date in sight let alone a date for the full resumption of business .  Lots of cruisers are being less than realistic about this. 

 

I doubt that the cruise lines are operating in this blinders on mode.  They will have to get their stories straight for the inevitable call with the investment community once the YE results and business forecasts are announced.

 

It will be interesting  to see if there are further dilutions in common share values from additional stock sales  or if cash flow will force the cruise conglomerates to dispose of more vessels.  I suspect that it may be a combination.  Or worse...perhaps some lines will be amalgamated and their fleet totals reduced. 

 

Cash flow has to be top of mind for them given their respective burn rates.  Their respective Statements of Cash Flow will tell the story.

 

It is not good.

Edited November 21, 2020 by iancal

[Cruzaholic41]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Perhaps I am less critical of those folks then you :). 

 

That’s the understatement of the day. 😂

[SelectSys]

5 hours ago, Hlitner said:

 But for the first time since last February I am feeling some optimism about the future and think we might see some return to normalcy in the 2nd half of 2022.

 

All of the vaccine news suggests that things will accelerate quicker than my previous expectation.  I guess we really  are starting to "round the corner" or see some "light at the end the end of the tunnel."

 

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

I can see the possibility of some 2nd quarter cruising depending on the rapid availability of vaccines 

 

This is really the key to cruising.  I can actually see more lines cancelling trips until the vaccine is in wide usage and countries will accept vaccinated passengers without too much extra "overhead."

 

No reasons for the lines to push and create problems for themselves at this point.

 

1 hour ago, iancal said:

We are hope to be able to travel internationally in Sept/Oct of 2021 

 

The key will for opening travel will be a vaccine and acceptance of vaccination as being valid for entry to another country.  Maybe some country/area differences will exist, but I see the vaccine as the overriding factor as to whether cruising will exist.

 

56 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

We feel the same although I do see the possibility of taking a long European driving trip in April or May....assuming we can get a vaccine prior to the trip and that Europe would open up to tourism. 

 

Getting vaccinated is my bottom line for an extensive travel in any manner.  I am still vacillating whether or not to go to Mexico before I vaccinations are available.  I have an invitation to go to a family wedding in March and while I would like to go, I am still not sure about it.

 

25 minutes ago, iancal said:

Financial viability is a very good question. 

 

It will be interesting  to see if there are further dilutions in common share values from additional stock sales  or if cash flow will force the cruise conglomerates to dispose of more vessels.  I suspect that it may be a combination.  Or worse...perhaps some lines will be amalgamated and their fleet totals reduced. 

 

Cash flow has to be top of mind for them given their respective burn rates.  Their respective Statements of Cash Flow will tell the story.

 

I think the markets are starting to price in an expected date for a limited return to cruising in the 2nd half of 2021 and a more full return in 2022.  

 

The fundamental business is still good and will return. Given the vaccine news, I believe the lines will be able to raise money in the markets to provide the bridge to the future.  I certainly wouldn't be surprised in the current shareholders take a hit or even get wiped out in some reorganization event.

 

The amazing thing is that this might be an incredible time to start a new airline or cruise line on the cheap given all the assets that are likely on the market. Time will tell.

[clo]

4 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Perhaps I am less critical of those folks then you :).

"Amazed" doesn't mean "critical." To each her own.

[Hlitner]

37 minutes ago, clo said:

"Amazed" doesn't mean "critical." To each her own.

OK, I will give you that.  On the other hand we will spend the winter living in Mexico which also "amazes" some of our friends :).  My background in medical insurance and healthcare has has firmly implanted the philosophy of risk tolerance.  Each person has their own level of risk tolerance and it drives many personal decisions including buying insurance, taking trips, how folks travel, etc.  To use your word, I am often amazed at travelers that will spend lots of money (sometimes up to 10% of their trip cost) to get decent insurance for trip cancelation (where their maximum loss is the cost of the trip) but not pay much attention to medical insurance where their potential liability is unlimited.  With COVID we all have to deal with our own tolerance for risk, and as many are now starting to realize, this tolerance is all over the place.  Some completely ignore the risk of COVID while others have made themselves virtual house prisoners out of an abundance of caution.  

 

My thinking is that getting on a mass market cruise ship during this COVID thing is more risk then I am willing to accept.  On the other hand, traveling in this COVID era is a risk we are willing to take since we feel more confident of our ability to minimize the risk through our own behavior.  There are also some folks who think it is a reasonable risk to take a cruise during COVID.   They are not wrong but I sure don't agree :).  While I might feel that DW and I can minimize our COVID risk on a ship, I do not think it is reasonable to assume that everyone else on that ship will follow our level of mitigation.  If even a single person on that ship gets COVID, then we immediately lose control of our own situation.    But on an independent land trip, if somebody else gets COVID it does not directly impact my behavior or freedom.  or put more simply, if the person in the Condo down the hall gets COVID it has no impact on me.  But if a cruise passenger down the hall gets COVID it might mean being quarantined (against my will) by the cruise line, having the cruise terminated, etc.  That is why I see cruise travel and land travel as activities that have a completely different risk/benefit profile.

 

Hank

[clo]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

we will spend the winter living in Mexico

We were planning on taking our motor home and heading to AZ and UT after the first of the year. But so many states out here are asking that we not do that. While our footprint and bubble would be small we're staying in NV for now. In addition all the advice about holiday gatherings being limited to those in your household has focused us on that even more.  I read a piece where someone did the math and realized that if he visited his parents for Thanksgiving his "bubble" would actually be 100. Masks etc. do a lot but not everything.

 

Here's an itinerary that we would stretch into a week or more.

 

https://www.reviewjournal.com/brandpublishing/sponsored-travel/one-weekend-seven-stunning-parks-infinite-memories/?utm_source=LVRJ&utm_medium=FB&fbclid=IwAR2ZHdk1C-jEc_3r__meXh_80l0Ppxt5I0PMeTdNo2RqfCyftXtU_8ihkd8

[iancal]

We have spent a fair amount of time in Mexico.  Mostly AI's in Yucatan and PV.    Last winter we did 7 weeks on our own.  Started in Yucatan, flew to Huatulco and worked our way up the coast by bus and one flight from Zi to PV.  Did it day by day.  The inter city buses resemble airline business class seats and they are very convenient.  When we got tired of a place we moved on.

 

Stayed in some small places, some large resorts.  Went out at night for dinner in places, including Acapulco  Used taxi and local city buses.   Never never felt unsafe-but we are oldies and do not bother with the bars and discos.  Plus, we travel frequently and have learned to keep an awareness of our surroundings when we travel.  We would have stayed longer and moved further up the coast had covid not interupted our travels. 

 

Bottom line....we want to return to Mexico and do independent travel again one winter.   It is so much closer for us that our more often winter destination of Thailand/Vietnam, etc.  It is one place where we would consider a long term rental.

Edited November 22, 2020 by iancal

[Hlitner]

32 minutes ago, clo said:

We were planning on taking our motor home and heading to AZ and UT after the first of the year. But so many states out here are asking that we not do that. While our footprint and bubble would be small we're staying in NV for now. In addition all the advice about holiday gatherings being limited to those in your household has focused us on that even more.  I read a piece where someone did the math and realized that if he visited his parents for Thanksgiving his "bubble" would actually be 100. Masks etc. do a lot but not everything.

 

Here's an itinerary that we would stretch into a week or more.

 

https://www.reviewjournal.com/brandpublishing/sponsored-travel/one-weekend-seven-stunning-parks-infinite-memories/?utm_source=LVRJ&utm_medium=FB&fbclid=IwAR2ZHdk1C-jEc_3r__meXh_80l0Ppxt5I0PMeTdNo2RqfCyftXtU_8ihkd8

We hear you.   Even our own family has cancelled all our Thanksgiving get togethers and everyone will be spending a quiet Turkey day at home.  We think that it is just smart.  But that does not change any of our travel plans because even when DW and I travel, we do not need to get involved with large (or even small groups).  We can social distance in Mexico just like we do here.  Yes, there is some risk to travel and we will do our best to minimize that risk with masks and social distancing .  But traveling as a couple we can do our best to avoid crowds, which seems to be the issue of greatest risk.  Dining out in Mexico will be a minor challenge since we are very familiar with the eating venues in Puerto Vallarta and will limit ourselves to places where we feel comfortable with their adherence to social distance policies.  

 

There is an inherent risk to life!  While we are willing to do our best to follow the rules and minimize that risk we are not willing to stop living so we can live (if that makes sense).  By the way, we love your itinerary but you need to fear that there will be many others with a similar idea.

 

Hank