No proof yet that vaccination prevents transmission to others

[coffeebean]

On 11/24/2020 at 9:04 AM, mek said:

Just one more reason why everyone should get the vaccine, but of course many won't - so you know what?  I don't care - as long as I'm protected, it's their problem, not mine if they can become infected.  There is absolutely no reason why we should have to continue wearing masks and social distance once the vaccine has become available to everyone who wants it.

I'm so glad someone stated what I have been thinking. I won't care either, as long as I'm protected. Is that selfish? Maybe it is but everyone will have the choice to be vaccinated when the vaccine is available to them. If anyone chooses not to be vaccinated, I'm not going to continue to mask to protect them.

[Dinglebert]

2 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

I'm so glad someone stated what I have been thinking. I won't care either, as long as I'm protected. Is that selfish? Maybe it is but everyone will have the choice to be vaccinated when the vaccine is available to them. If anyone chooses not to be vaccinated, I'm not going to continue to mask to protect them.

I 99% agree with both of you.  The other 1% is for those peope who are unable to take the vaccine for medical reasons which tends to mean they are also at most risk if they get the virus.  Those who decide not to take the virus are putting these people at risk.

[ace2542]

40 minutes ago, Dinglebert said:

I 99% agree with both of you.  The other 1% is for those peope who are unable to take the vaccine for medical reasons which tends to mean they are also at most risk if they get the virus.  Those who decide not to take the virus are putting these people at risk.

But people medically unable to take it can get antibody injections can't they?

[Dinglebert]

30 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

But people medically unable to take it can get antibody injections can't they?

Net yet.  Its still on trial stage.

[ace2542]

15 minutes ago, Dinglebert said:

Net yet.  Its still on trial stage.

But they will probably be approved at some point during the vaccination process so it will be easy for that 1% of people to catch up.

[sparks1093]

On 11/24/2020 at 7:56 AM, twins_to_alaska said:

https://www.yahoo.com/.../modernas-chief-medical-officer...

 

Moderna Chief Medical Officer warns public should not "over-interpret" the vaccine trial results to assume life could go back to normal after adults are vaccinated. "They do not show that they prevent you from potentially carrying this virus transiently and infecting others. I think it's important that we don't change behavior solely on the basis of vaccination."  Which means keep social distancing and wearing masks and hand hygiene.

 

While he believes based on the science that it's likely that vaccine does prevent transmission, there's still no solid proof of that.

 

Hopefully there will be proof by the time cruising eventually starts up next year.

I haven't read through all of the replies, but I get a vaccine to protect me. I don't believe that any vaccine would prevent transmission to another human if you had enough of a virus load in your body to transmit it.

[nomad098]

No vaccine manufacturer has come forward and claimed their vaccine breaks transmission. They cannot because the trials of these vaccines are based upon reducing harm not the interruption of transmission. Until more trial data is available which will take around 1-2 years no reputable scientist can confirm the interruption of transmission, so for the sake of safety it is assumed that you can carry and transmit the disease. Anyone who says it can interrupt transmission now at this moment is selling snake oil.

 

Because of this masks social and distancing will probably remain in place for a while as a sensible precaution until more data is evaluated.

 

There are justifiable reasons not to have a vaccine or to take the first one on the market.

 

- Religion

- immunosuppression 

- Suitability

- Ethical concerns

- Health concerns

- Fear of the unknown.

 

Until vaccines are shown to break transmission not wearing a mask just because you were vaccinated is as bad as some of the anti maskers arguments and you pose a risk to society as a whole.

 

Believing that vaccinations are the cure all for this pandemic or future pandemics are just as dangerous as the anti vaxxer claims.

 

Remember these vaccines have only been tested on less than 0.0001% of the world population, with the vast majority considered fit and healthy and the WHO have estimated that as long as less than 700,000 people die due to adverse reactions the vaccines will be considered a success. 

 

Vaccinations are a short term answer to this pandemic but long term problems remain

 

 

 

 

[Dinglebert]

1 hour ago, ace2542 said:

But they will probably be approved at some point during the vaccination process so it will be easy for that 1% of people to catch up.

It may be or it may not.  Its still testing.  I still hold that people who choose not to have the vaccine are putting those who can't have it at risk.

[BND]

57 minutes ago, nomad098 said:

No vaccine manufacturer has come forward and claimed their vaccine breaks transmission. They cannot because the trials of these vaccines are based upon reducing harm not the interruption of transmission. Until more trial data is available which will take around 1-2 years no reputable scientist can confirm the interruption of transmission, so for the sake of safety it is assumed that you can carry and transmit the disease. Anyone who says it can interrupt transmission now at this moment is selling snake oil.

 

Because of this masks social and distancing will probably remain in place for a while as a sensible precaution until more data is evaluated.

 

There are justifiable reasons not to have a vaccine or to take the first one on the market.

 

- Religion

- immunosuppression 

- Suitability

- Ethical concerns

- Health concerns

- Fear of the unknown.

 

Until vaccines are shown to break transmission not wearing a mask just because you were vaccinated is as bad as some of the anti maskers arguments and you pose a risk to society as a whole.

 

Believing that vaccinations are the cure all for this pandemic or future pandemics are just as dangerous as the anti vaxxer claims.

 

Remember these vaccines have only been tested on less than 0.0001% of the world population, with the vast majority considered fit and healthy and the WHO have estimated that as long as less than 700,000 people die due to adverse reactions the vaccines will be considered a success. 

 

Vaccinations are a short term answer to this pandemic but long term problems remain

 

 

 

 

Isn't fear of the unknown just part of life?  I think most of us believe the vaccine will allow us to return to a more normal life.  Lessened symptoms, just like with the flu vaccine is a much better alternative than the full blown illness, I hope you would agree.  What I see you posting is a list of talking points.  I think some people put too much on this virus.  At the end of the day, there have been viruses that caused pandemics before and the world lived through them.  We will get past this too. And, before someone starts stating but it's "novel". Novel only means it's new, not that it's undefeatable.

Edited November 27, 2020 by BND

[mek]

As I mentioned on a previous post, I will of course continue to mask and social distance until it is apparent that everyone who wishes to be vaccinated has been.  But once we reach that point  - I'm done with it. Perhaps if people continue to get sick some of the hold outs will become converts. Also, if those at highest risk are getting the shot(s), (which I have to believe the majority will), then that may also get us to herd immunity if others get infected but don't become seriously ill.

 

The only people I really care about protecting are those who can't take a vaccine because of medical issues.  Every other reason is based on a personal choice to not vaccinate - and again, that's their problem, not mine.

Edited November 27, 2020 by mek

[Iamcruzin]

1 hour ago, nomad098 said:

 

Vaccinations are a short term answer to this pandemic but long term problems remain

 

 

 

 

First of all CC is not the place for medical or legal advice. However it is entertaining. Too many people on this site think that the vaccine will work like a light switch. Covid will be turned off, ships will sail at full capacity, buffets and lounges will be in full force and ports of call will be greeting Americans with open arms.  Covid fatigue has caused people to become lax with daily cleaning habits. I don't see the clerks in the stores wiping down the check out counters maybe it's the lack of paper towels.  Few are even using the hand sanitizer that is set up as you enter the store and are at the checkout counters. They also have to be reminded to social distance. This is one reason why we are spiking again. 

Edited November 27, 2020 by Iamcruzin

[orville99]

Reported this morning on CNBC with the CEO of AZ that they have to begin a new clinical trial of the half dose/full dose regimen because the data from an "inadvertent" mis-dosing of some of the initial trial participants that showed a 90% efficacy and then comingling those data with the ~60% efficacy full dose/full dose data made the combined efficacy result unreliable for an EUA. The CEO said that they are having difficulty recruiting new participants and had no estimate on when they would be prepared to submit anything for review.

Edited November 27, 2020 by orville99

[nomad098]

1 hour ago, BND said:

Isn't fear of the unknown just part of life?  I think most of us believe the vaccine will allow us to return to a more normal life.  Lessened symptoms, just like with the flu vaccine is a much better alternative than the full blown illness, I hope you would agree.  What I see you posting is a list of talking points.  I think some people put too much on this virus.  At the end of the day, there have been viruses that caused pandemics before and the world lived through them.  We will get past this too. And, before someone starts stating but it's "novel". Novel only means it's new, not that it's undefeatable.

 

Fear of the unknown consequences of a unproven vaccine would have been a better point. I was trying to be brief.

 

I was trying to point out you don't need to be an anti vaxxer to have reservations in regards to a vaccine. My kids are due their boosters soon, I have no issues with them as the diseases pose a risk to them, I do have concerns in regards to vaccines built on unproven platforms to treat my kids for a disease that for them is pretty insignificant 

 

I also wonder if pre social media, 24 hour news cycles and virtually unlimited information access how we would have reacted to this disease.  

[Goodtime Cruizin]

2 hours ago, Iamcruzin said:

First of all CC is not the place for medical or legal advice. However it is entertaining. Too many people on this site think that the vaccine will work like a light switch. Covid will be turned off, ships will sail at full capacity, buffets and lounges will be in full force and ports of call will be greeting Americans with open arms.  Covid fatigue has caused people to become lax with daily cleaning habits. I don't see the clerks in the stores wiping down the check out counters maybe it's the lack of paper towels.  Few are even using the hand sanitizer that is set up as you enter the store and are at the checkout counters. They also have to be reminded to social distance. This is one reason why we are spiking again. 

 

It is a light switch and why SCIENTISTS are being paid BILLIONs to produce it. Get the vaccine as early as possible & you will not need to worry about a clerk covid wiping a counter top.  Sooo many people have lived as a recluse covid life the last 9 months to a point that they'll struggle to get themselves re-acclimated to life again and have to move on to something else to fuss, nag, and complain about. 

[Iamcruzin]

5 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

It is a light switch and why SCIENTISTS are being paid BILLIONs to produce it. Get the vaccine as early as possible & you will not need to worry about a clerk covid wiping a counter top.  Sooo many people have lived as a recluse covid life the last 9 months to a point that they'll struggle to get themselves re-acclimated to life again and have to move on to something else to fuss, nag, and complain about. 

It's not happening overnight like many here think. 

[Goodtime Cruizin]

It'll flip my light switch as soon as I'm vaccinated. 

[suzyluvs2cruise]

6 minutes ago, Iamcruzin said:

It's not happening overnight like many here think. 

 

So true.....and is also not the Magic Pill many think will instantly change everything. 

[ace2542]

3 hours ago, Iamcruzin said:

First of all CC is not the place for medical or legal advice. However it is entertaining. Too many people on this site think that the vaccine will work like a light switch. Covid will be turned off, ships will sail at full capacity, buffets and lounges will be in full force and ports of call will be greeting Americans with open arms.  Covid fatigue has caused people to become lax with daily cleaning habits. I don't see the clerks in the stores wiping down the check out counters maybe it's the lack of paper towels.  Few are even using the hand sanitizer that is set up as you enter the store and are at the checkout counters. They also have to be reminded to social distance. This is one reason why we are spiking again. 

Masks will be worn on cruise ships forever mark my words. I never saw clerks wiping stores down before this to be honest. And when I was onboard the NCL Pearl 2019 there was no one spraying hands when you went onboard and no hand spraying automatic thing for you to put your hand under at the point of embarkation either. No wonder we had the noro outbreak onboard.

[mek]

16 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

Masks will be worn on cruise ships forever mark my words. I never saw clerks wiping stores down before this to be honest. And when I was onboard the NCL Pearl 2019 there was no one spraying hands when you went onboard and no hand spraying automatic thing for you to put your hand under at the point of embarkation either. No wonder we had the noro outbreak onboard.

Then I simply won't cruise if they are required.  I have been on 60+ cruises and have never been sick. I have NO intentions of living the rest of my life the way I have for the past 8 months and see no reason to continue panic mode once the pandemic is over. 

Washing hands and practicing good hygiene is one thing but the rest is overkill.

Edited November 27, 2020 by mek

[ace2542]

5 minutes ago, mek said:

Then I simply won't cruise if they are required.  I have been on 60+ cruises and have never been sick. I have NO intentions of living the rest of my life the way I have for the past 8 months and see no reason to continue panic mode once the pandemic is over. 

Washing hands and practicing good hygiene is one thing but the rest is overkill.

I agree entirely and that is all I can say on a public forum. It has to be no vac no sail no exceptions.

[mek]

14 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

I agree entirely and that is all I can say on a public forum. It has to be no vac no sail no exceptions.

I agree 100% with you concerning vaccines.

[mek]

2 hours ago, nomad098 said:

 

Fear of the unknown consequences of a unproven vaccine would have been a better point. I was trying to be brief.

 

I was trying to point out you don't need to be an anti vaxxer to have reservations in regards to a vaccine. My kids are due their boosters soon, I have no issues with them as the diseases pose a risk to them, I do have concerns in regards to vaccines built on unproven platforms to treat my kids for a disease that for them is pretty insignificant 

 

I also wonder if pre social media, 24 hour news cycles and virtually unlimited information access how we would have reacted to this disease.  

I think you do bring up an interesting point.  If the vaccines don't prevent people from being carriers - is there really a need to vaccinate children under 10 as they are generally not at risk?  Right now they can transmit the virus to others but it sounds like the vaccine may not prevent that, so I'm not sure if they really do need to be vaccinated.