My Money is on Cunard

[ew101]

While I don't actually have a paid deposit in, I do think Cunard has the best chances of re-opening cruising of any line.   A reasonably effective vaccine looks semi promising at this point.  But two facts remain- the vaccine is not, so far, 100% effective, and we will still need to control airbone droplet transmission. 

 

This will require rules and rule following.  Cunard passengers, who willingly give up their right to wear gym shorts or sweat pants to dinner in the main dining room, can probably be persuded to follow a few regulations. 

 

Masks will be required.  We wear masks on some formal nights, we can do this.  I know I personally feel afraid indoors in public spaces without a mask.   

 

The MDR and pubs will be spaced out.  Sitting indoors maskless at the bar- probably a no.  The extra tables can go in a warehouse - we won't need them.  

 

The buffet is back- there is no data at all proving fomitic (surface) transmission.  Take out half the tables - done.  Take-out and room service seem safe enough.  

 

Lines are bad.  

 

Full cabin occupancy (3-4) is probably a no.  The customary double crew cabins (hated by the CDC) are a no.  The crew bar is a problem.  Packed crew dining rooms are a problem.  

 

We can skip the "Hygiene Theater" (Atlantic Magazine) - the toxic disinfectants sprayed everywhere by persons in hazmat suits don't stop droplet transmission.  

 

Housekeeping can clean your room as long as you are not in it

 

The virus spreads very poorly outdoors.  So the tent dining area under the funnel seems safe.   Drinks served on the outdoor decks- fine.  The aft deck- fine.  

 

Given the lack of ports open to cruise ships, cruises to nowhere seem more interesting.  Going at 12 knots reduces wind over the decks.  

 

Common area HVAC changes will be needed.  Recirculation sideways in a room is bad.   Fresh air is good.  (Do the droplets in fact remain viable after a trip though the air handlers- probably not).  This may require ductwork changes.  More floor level intakes.  The air flow needs to be downward and out.  

 

Dancing should be possible- maybe a system of colored badges or wrist bands to discourage mixing of couples- but wearing masks- it could work

 

Socialization - like the Cruise Critic meet and greet- can be safe enough outdoors.  

 

So- can we fully recapture 2019?  No.  Can we be at sea again?  Yes.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2020 by ew101

[ace2542]

1 hour ago, ew101 said:

While I don't actually have a paid deposit in, I do think Cunard has the best chances of re-opening cruising of any line.   A reasonably effective vaccine looks semi promising at this point.  But two facts remain- the vaccine is not, so far, 100% effective, and we will still need to control airbone droplet transmission. 

 

This will require rules and rule following.  Cunard passengers, who willingly give up their right to wear gym shorts or sweat pants to dinner in the main dining room, can probably be persuded to follow a few regulations. 

 

Masks will be required.  We wear masks on some formal nights, we can do this.  I know I personally feel afraid indoors in public spaces without a mask.   

 

The MDR and pubs will be spaced out.  Sitting indoors maskless at the bar- probably a no.  The extra tables can go in a warehouse - we won't need them.  

 

The buffet is back- there is no data at all proving fomitic (surface) transmission.  Take out half the tables - done.  Take-out and room service seem safe enough.  

 

Lines are bad.  

 

Full cabin occupancy (3-4) is probably a no.  The customary double crew cabins (hated by the CDC) are a no.  The crew bar is a problem.  Packed crew dining rooms are a problem.  

 

We can skip the "Hygiene Theater" (Atlantic Magazine) - the toxic disinfectants sprayed everywhere by persons in hazmat suits don't stop droplet transmission.  

 

Housekeeping can clean your room as long as you are not in it

 

The virus spreads very poorly outdoors.  So the tent dining area under the funnel seems safe.   Drinks served on the outdoor decks- fine.  The aft deck- fine.  

 

Given the lack of ports open to cruise ships, cruises to nowhere seem more interesting.  Going at 12 knots reduces wind over the decks.  

 

Common area HVAC changes will be needed.  Recirculation sideways in a room is bad.   Fresh air is good.  (Do the droplets in fact remain viable after a trip though the air handlers- probably not).  This may require ductwork changes.  More floor level intakes.  The air flow needs to be downward and out.  

 

So- can we fully recapture 2019?  No.  Can we be at sea again?  Yes.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A good thought but in a word. No it will not happen the way you say it will.

 

First off. A lot of people won't go on a ship if they have to a wear a mask for 2 week continuously including in their sleep when you don't have to wear it anywhere else. And Cunard and others know this. And in  9 months or 2 years you probably won't have to anywhere else.  Didn't Biden say masks only for the first 100 days then he will probably lift that and it will be your own choice and the vaccine will be in most at risk groupings by then with big knock on effect in death reduction etc etc.

 

What about inside cabins with 2 people in separate beds or 2 in a double bed?. Should they wear masks in their sleep. Are you proposing 2 people in a 3/4 cabin? or 1 person in 3/4 cabin?. Less money but maybe not less service needed. Ok a few laundry sheets maybe

 

I think you also ask too much of the crew if they can't have any relaxation facilities at all?.  It won't be possible to give every crew member a single cabin. Are they to wear masks in their sleep as well?  Again asking too much of them.

 

Just because you sail at 25% passengers or 50% doesn't mean you need 50% of the crew it doesn't work like that. If you reduce speed to 12 knots you increase the time of Transatlantic crossing. More time at sea will need more supplies or the same level of supplies at least, less crossings less money but the same expense?. What about the afternoon tea? Scrap that? And the orchestra? That is Cunard?. Also the changes for air might be very expensive and time consuming.

 

The only way forward is surely to insist that all passengers and crew members be vaccinated. If ALL are vaccinated then it should not be that big a problem at least in terms of serious illness onboard. It will be a problem if they have to rotate staff members. Because Cunard will have to pay for their "quarantine period"  And sorry but I can see the U.S insisting most staff members be put up in some sort of detention centre because they are high risk of not getting back onboard the ship.

Edited December 5, 2020 by ace2542

[ace2542]

1 hour ago, ew101 said:

While I don't actually have a paid deposit in, I do think Cunard has the best chances of re-opening cruising of any line.   A reasonably effective vaccine looks semi promising at this point.  But two facts remain- the vaccine is not, so far, 100% effective, and we will still need to control airbone droplet transmission. 

 

This will require rules and rule following.  Cunard passengers, who willingly give up their right to wear gym shorts or sweat pants to dinner in the main dining room, can probably be persuded to follow a few regulations. 

 

Masks will be required.  We wear masks on some formal nights, we can do this.  I know I personally feel afraid indoors in public spaces without a mask.   

 

The MDR and pubs will be spaced out.  Sitting indoors maskless at the bar- probably a no.  The extra tables can go in a warehouse - we won't need them.  

 

The buffet is back- there is no data at all proving fomitic (surface) transmission.  Take out half the tables - done.  Take-out and room service seem safe enough.  

 

Lines are bad.  

 

Full cabin occupancy (3-4) is probably a no.  The customary double crew cabins (hated by the CDC) are a no.  The crew bar is a problem.  Packed crew dining rooms are a problem.  

 

We can skip the "Hygiene Theater" (Atlantic Magazine) - the toxic disinfectants sprayed everywhere by persons in hazmat suits don't stop droplet transmission.  

 

Housekeeping can clean your room as long as you are not in it

 

The virus spreads very poorly outdoors.  So the tent dining area under the funnel seems safe.   Drinks served on the outdoor decks- fine.  The aft deck- fine.  

 

Given the lack of ports open to cruise ships, cruises to nowhere seem more interesting.  Going at 12 knots reduces wind over the decks.  

 

Common area HVAC changes will be needed.  Recirculation sideways in a room is bad.   Fresh air is good.  (Do the droplets in fact remain viable after a trip though the air handlers- probably not).  This may require ductwork changes.  More floor level intakes.  The air flow needs to be downward and out.  

 

So- can we fully recapture 2019?  No.  Can we be at sea again?  Yes.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And also what about the travel ban from Europe and UK. Won't be lifted for at least 100 days. Probably won't be lifted till all have been at least offered the vaccine.

Edited December 5, 2020 by ace2542

[exlondoner]

I thought the ban on travel, as opposed to requirements to quarantine. at either or both ends,  had expired with lockdown.

 

On board ship, I would expect the requirements for sailing from the UK to be much the same as those adopted in hotels and restaurants, whatever they may be when the time comes.

[Victoria2]

1 hour ago, ace2542 said:

 

 

Pure speculation. No one knows what's going to happen so why try and predict?

 

We have cruises booked and as I'm a glass half full gal, I won't do any  speculating because what will be, will be and if we can be onboard, that will suit us.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2020 by Victoria2
didn't mean to quote, just a general comment

[ace2542]

59 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

I thought the ban on travel, as opposed to requirements to quarantine. at either or both ends,  had expired with lockdown.

 

On board ship, I would expect the requirements for sailing from the UK to be much the same as those adopted in hotels and restaurants, whatever they may be when the time comes.

No the presidential proclamation  still stands so far as I aware. If leaving from UK and heading to U.S  cannot entry country period end of story unless U.S Citizen or Green Card Holder unless you have been in an approved for 14 days prior. And from what Biden has said about 100 days it is pretty safe to suspect it won't be lifted before then. It will probably be lifted once all Americans can have the jab and get on with it if they don't want it. I would not bank on any transatlantic sailings before June at least.

 

You are also sailing into the U.S so maybe have to follow CDC rules which probably will mean masks 24 hours a day including in bed on a cruise ship forever and ever mark my words. Can you imagine staff coming round doing a bed check to see if you are wearing your mask.

Edited December 5, 2020 by ace2542

[Windsurfboy]

30 minutes ago, Victoria2 said:

 

Pure speculation. No one knows what's going to happen so why try and predict?

 

We have cruises booked and as I'm a glass half full gal, I won't do any  speculating because what will be, will be and if we can be onboard, that will suit us.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree,  no use worrying about  something you cannot control. 

 

However I will put money my next cruise which isn't until April 22 going ahead as normal , also some cruises but  with restrictions starting sometime in 2021, which will then be lifted in stages .

 

I was going to say  I don't care if everyone is vaccinated because I  will be.  However thinking not about our health but about the disruption one case could  cause then I hope there will be a strict vaccination rule.

[ace2542]

11 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

I agree,  no use worrying about  something you cannot control. 

 

However I will put money my next cruise which isn't until April 22 going ahead as normal , also some cruises but  with restrictions starting sometime in 2021, which will then be lifted in stages .

 

I was going to say  I don't care if everyone is vaccinated because I  will be.  However thinking not about our health but about the disruption one case could  cause then I hope there will be a strict vaccination rule.

Things will be much different in 2022. They will almost surely insist upon vaccination to prevent a major outbreak situation onboard. If they are going to lock the entire ship for 14 days because of 1 confirmed case as has been suggested after people have been vaccinated. Then you may as well just forget about cruising because the knock on effects would be too much for companies to absorb.

 

I think it will reach a stage who don't want to the vaccine will be let to go round without it and that is their choice unless they want this pandemic to last forever. But cruise and airlines will have strict vaccination rules of course.

Edited December 5, 2020 by ace2542

[ace2542]

3 hours ago, ew101 said:

While I don't actually have a paid deposit in, I do think Cunard has the best chances of re-opening cruising of any line.   A reasonably effective vaccine looks semi promising at this point.  But two facts remain- the vaccine is not, so far, 100% effective, and we will still need to control airbone droplet transmission. 

 

This will require rules and rule following.  Cunard passengers, who willingly give up their right to wear gym shorts or sweat pants to dinner in the main dining room, can probably be persuded to follow a few regulations. 

 

Masks will be required.  We wear masks on some formal nights, we can do this.  I know I personally feel afraid indoors in public spaces without a mask.   

 

The MDR and pubs will be spaced out.  Sitting indoors maskless at the bar- probably a no.  The extra tables can go in a warehouse - we won't need them.  

 

The buffet is back- there is no data at all proving fomitic (surface) transmission.  Take out half the tables - done.  Take-out and room service seem safe enough.  

 

Lines are bad.  

 

Full cabin occupancy (3-4) is probably a no.  The customary double crew cabins (hated by the CDC) are a no.  The crew bar is a problem.  Packed crew dining rooms are a problem.  

 

We can skip the "Hygiene Theater" (Atlantic Magazine) - the toxic disinfectants sprayed everywhere by persons in hazmat suits don't stop droplet transmission.  

 

Housekeeping can clean your room as long as you are not in it

 

The virus spreads very poorly outdoors.  So the tent dining area under the funnel seems safe.   Drinks served on the outdoor decks- fine.  The aft deck- fine.  

 

Given the lack of ports open to cruise ships, cruises to nowhere seem more interesting.  Going at 12 knots reduces wind over the decks.  

 

Common area HVAC changes will be needed.  Recirculation sideways in a room is bad.   Fresh air is good.  (Do the droplets in fact remain viable after a trip though the air handlers- probably not).  This may require ductwork changes.  More floor level intakes.  The air flow needs to be downward and out.  

 

Dancing should be possible- maybe a system of colored badges or wrist bands to discourage mixing of couples- but wearing masks- it could work

 

Socialization - like the Cruise Critic meet and greet- can be safe enough outdoors.  

 

So- can we fully recapture 2019?  No.  Can we be at sea again?  Yes.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I misread a bit of what you said. A cruise to nowhere like Qantas for the short term might be interesting to people for a weekend away if you can make it profitable and get some money in. But you can't ask the crews to work like that long term and you can't impose mask wearing at night in bed either that is too much. 

 

But once the vaccine travels down the age groupings I think a lot of ports will reopen and those who don't I think you can say will never reopen to cruise ships. Some ports may not.

Edited December 5, 2020 by ace2542

[Host Hattie]

Where has the requirement to wear a mask in bed come from ? Have I missed something ?

[majortom10]

3 hours ago, ew101 said:

While I don't actually have a paid deposit in, I do think Cunard has the best chances of re-opening cruising of any line.   A reasonably effective vaccine looks semi promising at this point.  But two facts remain- the vaccine is not, so far, 100% effective, and we will still need to control airbone droplet transmission. 

 

This will require rules and rule following.  Cunard passengers, who willingly give up their right to wear gym shorts or sweat pants to dinner in the main dining room, can probably be persuded to follow a few regulations. 

 

Masks will be required.  We wear masks on some formal nights, we can do this.  I know I personally feel afraid indoors in public spaces without a mask.   

 

The MDR and pubs will be spaced out.  Sitting indoors maskless at the bar- probably a no.  The extra tables can go in a warehouse - we won't need them.  

 

The buffet is back- there is no data at all proving fomitic (surface) transmission.  Take out half the tables - done.  Take-out and room service seem safe enough.  

 

Lines are bad.  

 

Full cabin occupancy (3-4) is probably a no.  The customary double crew cabins (hated by the CDC) are a no.  The crew bar is a problem.  Packed crew dining rooms are a problem.  

 

We can skip the "Hygiene Theater" (Atlantic Magazine) - the toxic disinfectants sprayed everywhere by persons in hazmat suits don't stop droplet transmission.  

 

Housekeeping can clean your room as long as you are not in it

 

The virus spreads very poorly outdoors.  So the tent dining area under the funnel seems safe.   Drinks served on the outdoor decks- fine.  The aft deck- fine.  

 

Given the lack of ports open to cruise ships, cruises to nowhere seem more interesting.  Going at 12 knots reduces wind over the decks.  

 

Common area HVAC changes will be needed.  Recirculation sideways in a room is bad.   Fresh air is good.  (Do the droplets in fact remain viable after a trip though the air handlers- probably not).  This may require ductwork changes.  More floor level intakes.  The air flow needs to be downward and out.  

 

Dancing should be possible- maybe a system of colored badges or wrist bands to discourage mixing of couples- but wearing masks- it could work

 

Socialization - like the Cruise Critic meet and greet- can be safe enough outdoors.  

 

So- can we fully recapture 2019?  No.  Can we be at sea again?  Yes.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dont think there are any vaccines that are 100% effective and has never stopped cruise lines visiting parts of the world affected.

[exlondoner]

51 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

No the presidential proclamation  still stands so far as I aware. If leaving from UK and heading to U.S  cannot entry country period end of story unless U.S Citizen or Green Card Holder unless you have been in an approved for 14 days prior. And from what Biden has said about 100 days it is pretty safe to suspect it won't be lifted before then. It will probably be lifted once all Americans can have the jab and get on with it if they don't want it. I would not bank on any transatlantic sailings before June at least.

 

You are also sailing into the U.S so maybe have to follow CDC rules which probably will mean masks 24 hours a day including in bed on a cruise ship forever and ever mark my words. Can you imagine staff coming round doing a bed check to see if you are wearing your mask.

 

Oh, I see you are talking about a ban by the USA on Europeans traveling there. I was assuming, as you are based in the U.K., you were looking at it from that perspective. I suspect there's will be lots of other countries available, where travel will be less risky.

[exlondoner]

30 minutes ago, Host Hattie said:

Where has the requirement to wear a mask in bed come from ? Have I missed something ?

 

Well, it's certainly making me wonder what other excitements I have missed in my humdrum life. And even more exciting is thinking how it might be enforced. 😀

[exlondoner]

30 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

Dont think there are any vaccines that are 100% effective and has never stopped cruise lines visiting parts of the world affected.

 

And where vaccines don't prevent infection, they generally mitigate its severity.

[Windsurfboy]

37 minutes ago, Host Hattie said:

Where has the requirement to wear a mask in bed come from ? Have I missed something ?

 

Does this mean Cunard are removing all the curtains to make cleaning easier.

[exlondoner]

10 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

Does this mean Cunard are removing all the curtains to make cleaning easier.

 

That would be great on Midnight Sun cruises.

[TheOldBear]

5 hours ago, ew101 said:

While I don't actually have a paid deposit in, I do think Cunard has the best chances of re-opening cruising of any line.   A reasonably effective vaccine looks semi promising at this point.  But two facts remain- the vaccine is not, so far, 100% effective, and we will still need to control airbone droplet transmission. 

 

This will require rules and rule following.  Cunard passengers, who willingly give up their right to wear gym shorts or sweat pants to dinner in the main dining room, can probably be persuded to follow a few regulations. 

 

Masks will be required.  We wear masks on some formal nights, we can do this.  I know I personally feel afraid indoors in public spaces without a mask.   

 

The MDR and pubs will be spaced out.  Sitting indoors maskless at the bar- probably a no.  The extra tables can go in a warehouse - we won't need them.  

 

The buffet is back- there is no data at all proving fomitic (surface) transmission.  Take out half the tables - done.  Take-out and room service seem safe enough.  

 

Lines are bad.  

 

Full cabin occupancy (3-4) is probably a no.  The customary double crew cabins (hated by the CDC) are a no.  The crew bar is a problem.  Packed crew dining rooms are a problem.  

 

We can skip the "Hygiene Theater" (Atlantic Magazine) - the toxic disinfectants sprayed everywhere by persons in hazmat suits don't stop droplet transmission.  

 

Housekeeping can clean your room as long as you are not in it

 

The virus spreads very poorly outdoors.  So the tent dining area under the funnel seems safe.   Drinks served on the outdoor decks- fine.  The aft deck- fine.  

 

Given the lack of ports open to cruise ships, cruises to nowhere seem more interesting.  Going at 12 knots reduces wind over the decks.  

 

Common area HVAC changes will be needed.  Recirculation sideways in a room is bad.   Fresh air is good.  (Do the droplets in fact remain viable after a trip though the air handlers- probably not).  This may require ductwork changes.  More floor level intakes.  The air flow needs to be downward and out.  

 

Dancing should be possible- maybe a system of colored badges or wrist bands to discourage mixing of couples- but wearing masks- it could work

 

Socialization - like the Cruise Critic meet and greet- can be safe enough outdoors.  

 

So- can we fully recapture 2019?  No.  Can we be at sea again?  Yes.  

 

 

Our decision date for next year's round trip crossing is May first [full payment due or deposit refund].

 

This is a few months into vaccine distribution in the US, UK and EU so we should have information about the scope of vaccinations and its impact on infection and illness rates. Cunard will have resumed sailing for less than a month by then, so it will be difficult to evaluate the on board adaptations in place.

If the suggested restrictions or something like them are expected to be in place, despite universal vaccination, I would tend to reschedule for 2022 - expecting some degree of normality to reemerge by then. 

 

[ace2542]

2 hours ago, exlondoner said:

 

Oh, I see you are talking about a ban by the USA on Europeans traveling there. I was assuming, as you are based in the U.K., you were looking at it from that perspective. I suspect there's will be lots of other countries available, where travel will be less risky.

That ban will likely be lifted once the vaccine has done it's rounds or at least the at risk groups have been covered but I think it will be lifted fairly soon.

[ace2542]

3 hours ago, Host Hattie said:

Where has the requirement to wear a mask in bed come from ? Have I missed something ?

No but surely if a wear a mask in the public area then wearing mask in the cabin is the only way to prevent it from spreading within the cabin both among the passengers and the crew? Particularly in the inside and ocean view cabins with the air coming in through that ac heating vent it comes in through. The crew in particular are going to be a problem where they have 4 or even 6 in a cabin.

 

You can't ask staff to do that and passengers won't. Unless they want to restrict passengers to 1 per cabin. That is not viable to run the ship at 25% for months or years on end or forever. And 25% of passengers does not mean you need 25% of staff. You will need at least 80% I would say a lot happens below decks which will still go on.

[exlondoner]

4 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

No but surely if a wear a mask in the public area then wearing mask in the cabin is the only way to prevent it from spreading within the cabin both among the passengers and the crew? Particularly in the inside and ocean view cabins with the air coming in through that ac heating vent it comes in through. The crew in particular are going to be a problem where they have 4 or even 6 in a cabin.

 

You can't ask staff to do that and passengers won't. Unless they want to restrict passengers to 1 per cabin. That is not viable to run the ship at 25% for months or years on end or forever. And 25% of passengers does not mean you need 25% of staff. You will need at least 80% I would say a lot happens below decks which will still go on.

 

Why can't you ask crew to do something passengers won't? They do all sorts of things passengers won't: wash glasses, wear uniforms, make beds, cook meals, etc, etc. Have you stayed in a U.K. hotel since all this started? Most issues seem to have been dealt with effectively.

 

There is much else here I find very hard to follow.

But, as has been said, it is pure speculation. We shall have to wait and see.

[exlondoner]

6 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

Maybe the cabin steward who earns not that much an hour but thinks he is a rich man - and DOES NOT get to keep the money you give him in hand at the end of the trip it goes into the general pool it really does and is sacked if found in possession of money -  will poke his head round the door and do a bed check in the middle of the night.

 

Or maybe not. 😀😀

As Capt. Mainwaring (for non-UK members, a character in a popular comedy series) would say, I think we may be in the realms of fantasy here. 

[ace2542]

5 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

 

Why can't you ask crew to do something passengers won't? They do all sorts of things passengers won't: wash glasses, wear uniforms, make beds, cook meals, etc, etc. Have you stayed in a U.K. hotel since all this started? Most issues seem to have been dealt with effectively.

 

There is much else here I find very hard to follow.

But, as has been said, it is pure speculation. We shall have to wait and see.

No I have not, I have not eaten out either. The staff at the hotels don't live in the hotel 4  or even 6 to a room the way they do on a ship. They work the shift and go home. You can't expect crew to sleep in a face mask for 8 months of a contract. That is asking too much of them. I wouldn't sleep in a face mask. I only wear it in a shop. On a high street i cover my face with my coat. That is a lot thicker covering as well.

[exlondoner]

1 minute ago, ace2542 said:

No I have not, I have not eaten out either. The staff at the hotels don't live in the hotel 4  or even 6 to a room the way they do on a ship. They work the shift and go home. You can't expect crew to sleep in a face mask for 8 months of a contract. That is asking too much of them. I wouldn't sleep in a face mask. I only wear it in a shop. On a high street i cover my face with my coat. That is a lot thicker covering as well.

 

As far as I can see, you are the only person to have mentioned sleeping in a face mask. But we shall see, or not, perhaps, if it's pitch dark.

[ace2542]

9 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

 

Or maybe not. 😀😀

As Capt. Mainwaring (for non-UK members, a character in a popular comedy series) would say, I think we may be in the realms of fantasy here. 

I am not so sure. They will have to continue having 3s even 4 in a cabins. You can't expect 2 people to pay 4 people money. Some people do pay both beds on an inside but I can't see that becoming the norm. And I can't see them reducing prices you can't reduce staff numbers by a big level or fuel. They can't operate at a loss for too much longer it won't be viable.

[Victoria2]

13 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

 

Or maybe not. 😀😀

As Capt. Mainwaring (for non-UK members, a character in a popular comedy series) would say, I think we may be in the realms of fantasy here. 

I think the realms of fantasy have been well and truly plumbed.

 Never mind, it's amusing to read and one day, we’ll be able to look back and see what was fantasy and what had an element of reality.