My Money is on Cunard

[ace2542]

2 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

 

As far as I can see, you are the only person to have mentioned sleeping in a face mask. But we shall see, or not, perhaps, if it's pitch dark.

An outbreak among the staff will be virtually impossible to contain if they don't. But that is coming from a place of an outbreak will be considered a problem. But once the vaccine is taken and taken 100% to board and work and it will be. Then an outbreak would probably not be that a big deal anymore as the vaccines do their work. They don't shut the ship down for Flu and very rarely for noro not unless it is a very bad outbreak. And this 5 to 7 days to move not 12 or 24 hours.

[exlondoner]

9 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

I am not so sure. They will have to continue having 3s even 4 in a cabins. You can't expect 2 people to pay 4 people money. Some people do pay both beds on an inside but I can't see that becoming the norm. 

 

In all the pricing I've ever seen (back to 1997), prices are on the basis of two per cabin. Third or Fourth passengers are extra. Has this changed?

[ace2542]

2 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

 

In all the pricing I've ever seen (back to 1997), prices are on the basis of two per cabin. Third or Fourth passengers are extra. Has this changed?

I couldn't not tell you I never looked at the price for anything beyond an inside cabin for 2 people.

[Host Hattie]

I think it's more likely that the staff will need to wear masks when they work in passenger cabins. I've not seen any suggestion anywhere reliable that passengers will be expected to wear them in their cabins.

[majortom10]

54 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

 

In all the pricing I've ever seen (back to 1997), prices are on the basis of two per cabin. Third or Fourth passengers are extra. Has this changed?

No we have stayed in many cabins that could accommodate 3/4 but there have only been 2 of us. In fact we have just booked a cruise with Cunard for 2022 in a cabin that can have up to 4 in but only 2 of us and we have been charged no extra.

[lissie]

1 hour ago, majortom10 said:

No we have stayed in many cabins that could accommodate 3/4 but there have only been 2 of us. In fact we have just booked a cruise with Cunard for 2022 in a cabin that can have up to 4 in but only 2 of us and we have been charged no extra.

Same - we booked a specific cabin and when I looked it up  to check what a symbol meant - apparently it can fit a 3rd person  - we are a couple and paid no extra - only question was king sized or twin beds 

[exlondoner]

13 hours ago, ace2542 said:

I couldn't not tell you I never looked at the price for anything beyond an inside cabin for 2 people.

 

So what point are you making?

[ace2542]

46 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

 

So what point are you making?

Apparently there is no additional charge with Cunard. Other lines do.

[ew101]

I came up with the no 3rd/4th passenger rule suggestion based on the data for in household COVID-19 transmission which seems to be in the range of 30-40%.  We need to reduce the indoor packing density of humans aboard.  This breaks every rule, policy, tradition and business model held by the CLIA.  So there is understandable anger and push back.    

 

Cabins are safe to start, as there is 100% fresh air.  But as was seen on the US aircraft carrier, if you have packed berthing areas virus transmission is highly efficient.  The much maligned six foot rule seems pretty good but impossible to support with four to a cabin.  

 

The only use case I can see for masks while sleeping or in cabins is if one person is spreading virus (or is suspected to be) and the other is uninfected and you cannot have separate rooms.   

 

Household spread of Covid-19 is common and quick, CDC study finds - CNN

 

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by ew101

[majortom10]

13 minutes ago, ew101 said:

I came up with the no 3rd/4th passenger rule suggestion based on the data for in household COVID-19 transmission which seems to be in the range of 30-40%.  We need to reduce the indoor packing density of humans aboard.  This breaks every rule, policy, tradition and business model held by the CLIA.  So there is understandable anger and push back.    

 

Cabins are safe to start, as there is 100% fresh air.  But as was seen on the US aircraft carrier, if you have packed berthing areas virus transmission is highly efficient.  The much maligned six foot rule seems pretty good but impossible to support with four to a cabin.  

 

The only use case I can see for masks while sleeping or in cabins is if one person is spreading virus (or is suspected to be) and the other is uninfected and you cannot have separate rooms.   

 

Household spread of Covid-19 is common and quick, CDC study finds - CNN

 

 

So what do you suggest for families who have 1 or 2 children that they book 2 cabins, cost impractical, or not go on cruises. This would have a major impact on many cruise ships which are family orientated and designed. 

[BlueRiband]

23 hours ago, ew101 said:

While I don't actually have a paid deposit in, I do think Cunard has the best chances of re-opening cruising of any line.   A reasonably effective vaccine looks semi promising at this point.  But two facts remain- the vaccine is not, so far, 100% effective, and we will still need to control airbone droplet transmission. 

 

This will require rules and rule following.  Cunard passengers, who willingly give up their right to wear gym shorts or sweat pants to dinner in the main dining room, can probably be persuded to follow a few regulations. 

 

Masks will be required.  We wear masks on some formal nights, we can do this.  I know I personally feel afraid indoors in public spaces without a mask.   

 

The MDR and pubs will be spaced out.  Sitting indoors maskless at the bar- probably a no.  The extra tables can go in a warehouse - we won't need them.  

 

The buffet is back- there is no data at all proving fomitic (surface) transmission.  Take out half the tables - done.  Take-out and room service seem safe enough.  

 

Lines are bad.  

 

Full cabin occupancy (3-4) is probably a no.  The customary double crew cabins (hated by the CDC) are a no.  The crew bar is a problem.  Packed crew dining rooms are a problem.  

 

We can skip the "Hygiene Theater" (Atlantic Magazine) - the toxic disinfectants sprayed everywhere by persons in hazmat suits don't stop droplet transmission.  

 

Housekeeping can clean your room as long as you are not in it

 

The virus spreads very poorly outdoors.  So the tent dining area under the funnel seems safe.   Drinks served on the outdoor decks- fine.  The aft deck- fine.  

 

Given the lack of ports open to cruise ships, cruises to nowhere seem more interesting.  Going at 12 knots reduces wind over the decks.  

 

Common area HVAC changes will be needed.  Recirculation sideways in a room is bad.   Fresh air is good.  (Do the droplets in fact remain viable after a trip though the air handlers- probably not).  This may require ductwork changes.  More floor level intakes.  The air flow needs to be downward and out.  

 

Dancing should be possible- maybe a system of colored badges or wrist bands to discourage mixing of couples- but wearing masks- it could work

 

Socialization - like the Cruise Critic meet and greet- can be safe enough outdoors.  

 

So- can we fully recapture 2019?  No.  Can we be at sea again?  Yes.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In that case Cunard will have to sell QM2 for her to be turned into another hotel ship.  Weather on TAs often makes it impossible to hold any activity outdoors.  Covid protocols make the traditional TA social experiences impossible.   What's the point of keeping QM2 afloat if she cannot be used what she was built for?

 

Some people want to be back on board so badly that they'll tolerate anything to help make it happen.  Others won't want to pay more for a substantially diminished experience. 

[newjoisey]

If the op thinks cunard will be one of the first to open up cruising again i have a bridge to sell them. I would not buy cruise stock strictly in their name ,while i would not buy propane gas for the cutting torches i would get some prices . 

[Victoria2]

1 hour ago, newjoisey said:

If the op thinks cunard will be one of the first to open up cruising again i have a bridge to sell them. I would not buy cruise stock strictly in their name ,while i would not buy propane gas for the cutting torches i would get some prices . 

Not quite sure what you're trying to say. I have no idea if Cunard will be one of the first to start cruising but they have a programme of itineraries starting March '21

 

Fingers crossed  those short  testers cruises take place.

[exlondoner]

Haven't MSC and Hurtigruten already started, anyway? Perhaps the OP is looking from a USA perspective?

Edited December 6, 2020 by exlondoner
Incomplete

[panamapd]

Add to that AIDA and Mein Schiff!  They have ships sailing to the Canaries.  

 

MSC and Costa have put a short pause on their sailings.  Hoping to re-sail again in January.

[Host Hattie]

Royal Caribbean have started short cruises from Singapore, Cunard definitely won't be the first.

[Victoria2]

1 hour ago, exlondoner said:

Haven't MSC and Hurtigruten already started, anyway? Perhaps the OP is looking from a USA perspective?

Started and on hold for the most part.

Cunard won't be the first, but hopefully, especially for those who have booked QE March and April, they will be amongst the first.

[ace2542]

4 hours ago, ew101 said:

I came up with the no 3rd/4th passenger rule suggestion based on the data for in household COVID-19 transmission which seems to be in the range of 30-40%.  We need to reduce the indoor packing density of humans aboard.  This breaks every rule, policy, tradition and business model held by the CLIA.  So there is understandable anger and push back.    

 

Cabins are safe to start, as there is 100% fresh air.  But as was seen on the US aircraft carrier, if you have packed berthing areas virus transmission is highly efficient.  The much maligned six foot rule seems pretty good but impossible to support with four to a cabin.  

 

The only use case I can see for masks while sleeping or in cabins is if one person is spreading virus (or is suspected to be) and the other is uninfected and you cannot have separate rooms.   

 

Household spread of Covid-19 is common and quick, CDC study finds - CNN

 

 

But you can't reduce the crew below decks by a large amount even if passengers numbers above decks are reduced.  You can't carry less fuel either and try and make fuel savings based on fewer passengers. A few less passengers will not make a difference to the weight of the ship. And they can't live with no 3/4 passenger for  a long time. 

 

The 6 foot rule  is impossible with even 2 in a cabin on an inside cabin. And the crew at who are not officers are at least 4 to cabin if not 6. The entertainment staff and the photography staff for example on the QM2.  They are 2 to a cabin I think but the cabin and kitchen people and others you never they are 4 even 6. And that can't change without major changes to the ship.

 

Outbreak among the crew is the bigger danger than outbreak among passengers given how long the virus takes to do it's work. So maybe they should wear masks in their sleep as 6 may sleep in the cabin at the same time on bunk beds. But I don't think you can ask them to do that. And you can't ask the crew to make do without any recreation facilities like the crew bar either for maybe 8 months. You have to remember how badly some of these guys were treated when this broke out. Not by Cunard maybe but some lines treated their staff real bad.

Edited December 6, 2020 by ace2542

[ace2542]

58 minutes ago, Victoria2 said:

Started and on hold for the most part.

Cunard won't be the first, but hopefully, especially for those who have booked QE March and April, they will be amongst the first.

A lot will depend upon the speed of vaccination through the age groupings. They say in U.S all we be offered it by April and in UK things are starting next week but that could change on both sides very quickly.

[Victoria2]

24 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

A lot will depend upon the speed of vaccination through the age groupings. They say in U.S all we be offered it by April and in UK things are starting next week but that could change on both sides very quickly.

You comment as though it's fact but yet again, you are speculating. We have no idea what part vaccinations will play in back to cruising.

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Victoria2

[ace2542]

19 minutes ago, Victoria2 said:

You comment as though it's fact but yet again, you are speculating. We have no idea if vaccinations will play a mandatory part in back to cruising.

 

But it will play a part in reopening countries and lifting quarantine requirements without the lifting of which cruising has no chance of getting back. If what the deputy chief med officer for UK says is to be believed. Then up to 99% of hospital admissions and deaths could be avoided with the first wave of jabs. Make of his statement what you will but the entire approach of the British Government wit this has been to prevent the NHS from being overwhelmed and save lives. If up 99% of hospital and deaths prevented does not cut the mustard for the objective of that statement then I don't know what does.

Edited December 6, 2020 by ace2542

[ace2542]

5 hours ago, BlueRiband said:

In that case Cunard will have to sell QM2 for her to be turned into another hotel ship.  Weather on TAs often makes it impossible to hold any activity outdoors.  Covid protocols make the traditional TA social experiences impossible.   What's the point of keeping QM2 afloat if she cannot be used what she was built for?

 

Some people want to be back on board so badly that they'll tolerate anything to help make it happen.  Others won't want to pay more for a substantially diminished experience. 

And a speed of 12 knots probably makes it what a 9 or 10 night crossing instead of a 7 night crossing?

[Victoria2]

53 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

But it will play a part in reopening countries and lifting quarantine requirements without the lifting of which cruising has no chance of getting back. If what the deputy chief med officer for UK says is to be believed. Then up to 99% of hospital admissions and deaths could be avoided with the first wave of jabs. Make of his statement what you will but the entire approach of the British Government wit this has been to prevent the NHS from being overwhelmed and save lives. If up 99% of hospital and deaths prevented does not cut the mustard for the objective of that statement then I don't know what does.

Of course it will play a part and I don't recall saying it wouldn't. What we don't know is how much a part it will play. 

 

Cruising  has started [thank you other posters] and will start for other lines, subject to very strict protocols early next year, with or without vaccination programmes. The itineraries will be limited. As far as  Cunard is concerned in the UK, the  F.O. and thus insurance permitting, t, remains to be seen whether it will be a successful start but one can hope.

[bazzaw]

The latest figures I have seen have said that approx 70 million people have been infected by the virus Worldwide. This means that approx 1430 million people have not been infected. So the virus still has plenty of space to move around the World. I am not expecting cruising to begin for a VERY long time - if ever, as the cruiselines will go bankrupt next year.

[navybankerteacher]

8 minutes ago, bazzaw said:

...

 

I am not expecting cruising to begin for a VERY long time - if ever, as the cruiselines will go bankrupt next year.

There is always light at the ends of tunnels-  If the lines do go bankrupt, their creditors will take a haircut and the new operators will have much lower debt service to cover - meaning fares could be lower than they would have to be if the current operators were to continue - charging fares to cover all the costs built up this year.