Healthy Sail Panel asked to re-evaluate

[oteixeira]

So I heard in a video I watched that the healthy sail panel was asked to re-evaluate all of their findings adding in vaccines to the equation.  Looks like NCL/RCL are already looking at what they could drop off if vaccines are mandatory.  What are your thoughts on this?  What would you love to see dropped from those initial findings?

[PelicanBill]

Who asked them to do this?  Seems the wrong side of the equation. The healthy sail plan was used as input to the CDC Framework but it was the creation of 2 cruise lines.

[DCGuy64]

2 hours ago, oteixeira said:

So I heard in a video I watched that the healthy sail panel was asked to re-evaluate all of their findings adding in vaccines to the equation.  Looks like NCL/RCL are already looking at what they could drop off if vaccines are mandatory.  What are your thoughts on this?  What would you love to see dropped from those initial findings?

I'd love to see mask-wearing dropped. Or social distancing, preferably both. If I'm vaccinated, I'm not as worried about being around others, even in close proximity. I think it makes perfect sense for the Healthy Sail Panel to re-evaluate its recommendations in light of the vaccines.

[GA Dave]

1 minute ago, DCGuy64 said:

I'd love to see mask-wearing dropped. Or social distancing, preferably both. If I'm vaccinated, I'm not as worried about being around others, even in close proximity. I think it makes perfect sense for the Healthy Sail Panel to re-evaluate its recommendations in light of the vaccines.

Agreed.  Based on the recently released CDC guidance for vaccinated individuals in the US, why in the world would we be required to wear a mask on a ship if everyone is vaccinated?  If they still require that, then it is blatantly not about the science, but about control of an industry.

[DaCruiseBug]

If they make vaccines mandatory in order to cruise and they make everyone take a PCR test 3 days before the ship sails then there should be no need to weak masks.

[oteixeira]

1 hour ago, PelicanBill said:

Who asked them to do this?  Seems the wrong side of the equation. The healthy sail plan was used as input to the CDC Framework but it was the creation of 2 cruise lines.

I don't want to say this is for sure but I thought it was RCL the cooperation asking the healthy panel to give them a new evaluation but factor in the vaccinations.

[HuliHuli]

2 hours ago, PelicanBill said:

Who asked them to do this?  Seems the wrong side of the equation. The healthy sail plan was used as input to the CDC Framework but it was the creation of 2 cruise lines.

The reevaluation was posted on RCCL's BlogSite March 8th.  https://www.*****.com/2021/03/08/royal-caribbean-re-evaluating-its-cruise-ship-health-protocols-following-stellar-vaccine

 

[PTC DAWG]

2 hours ago, GA Dave said:

Agreed.  Based on the recently released CDC guidance for vaccinated individuals in the US, why in the world would we be required to wear a mask on a ship if everyone is vaccinated?  If they still require that, then it is blatantly not about the science, but about control of an industry.

Well said....

[PelicanBill]

Nobody has said they plan to require 100% vaccinations and exclude children until then.

Nobody has a system for proving they have a vaccination. Easy to say you do and forge a card.

 

If people who are not vaccinated are allowed on board, then those of us who are still vulnerable are at great risk even with a vaccine. The J&J vaccine is only 42% effective at preventing someone with Diabetes from getting sick.  Even if I am not hospitalized and don't die, I could be on disability for weeks.  For this reason, the next cruise I have booked is not until the end of 2022 so I know if it proves safe.

[mianmike]

22 minutes ago, PelicanBill said:

Nobody has said they plan to require 100% vaccinations and exclude children until then.

Nobody has a system for proving they have a vaccination. Easy to say you do and forge a card.

 

 

The airlines have asked for a universal verifiable vaccine passport.  Hawaii is working with CLEAR which is developing the CLEAR HEALTH PASS  https://www.clearme.com/healthpass that would be verifiable.  I expect there will be a universal electronic vaccine passport chosen in the near future.  

Edited March 11, 2021 by mianmike

[oteixeira]

21 minutes ago, PelicanBill said:

Nobody has said they plan to require 100% vaccinations and exclude children until then.

Nobody has a system for proving they have a vaccination. Easy to say you do and forge a card.

 

If people who are not vaccinated are allowed on board, then those of us who are still vulnerable are at great risk even with a vaccine. The J&J vaccine is only 42% effective at preventing someone with Diabetes from getting sick.  Even if I am not hospitalized and don't die, I could be on disability for weeks.  For this reason, the next cruise I have booked is not until the end of 2022 so I know if it proves safe.

May I ask what you think will change between now and your next cruise?  If the J&J vaccine is the norm, and you are talking about getting Covid, not the chance of you ending up very sick and in hospital (those numbers are more like 85% effective or more) than what are you waiting on?  

I am asking honestly, there won't be vaccines that can kill this 100% from what I can see.  As for forging the paperwork, there will be an app....and as I type this, I see a new reply that explains it from @mianmike, thanks for showing what I am talking about guys!

[chengkp75]

28 minutes ago, mianmike said:

 

The airlines have asked for a universal verifiable vaccine passport.  Hawaii is working with CLEAR which is developing the CLEAR HEALTH PASS  https://www.clearme.com/healthpass that would be verifiable.  I expect there will be a universal electronic vaccine passport chosen in the near future.  

Looking at their website, I believe I see flaws in their covid vaccination plan, though of course it isn't final, and I didn't look too closely.  It says that you link the Clear Health Pass to your healthcare account to verify the vaccine record.  Which healthcare account?  What of those who got vaccinated at mass vaccination centers?  I know people who have gotten their vaccination, and the card provided lists the date and the batch of vaccine, but you write in your name and data in the blanks, so there is a wide possibility of forgery.  And, until there is a nationwide means of obtaining and tracking the vaccination, not state by state, like it was when I started going to sea, where you went to USPH centers to receive inoculations, there isn't going to be a real foolproof way to document this. 

 

Also, since Clear only applies to US citizens and Green Card holders, what about international passengers and the crew?

Edited March 11, 2021 by chengkp75

[mianmike]

3 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Looking at their website, I believe I see flaws in their covid vaccination plan, though of course it isn't final, and I didn't look too closely.  It says that you link the Clear Health Pass to your healthcare account to verify the vaccine record.  Which healthcare account?  What of those who got vaccinated at mass vaccination centers?  I know people who have gotten their vaccination, and the card provided lists the date and the batch of vaccine, but you write in your name and data in the blanks, so there is a wide possibility of forgery.  And, until there is a nationwide means of obtaining and tracking the vaccination, not state by state, like it was when I started going to sea, where you went to USPH centers to receive inoculations, there isn't going to be a real foolproof way to document this. 

 

Hawaii takes covid very seriously.  I'm confident they will not accept a health passport that is not verifiable. Here in Arizona where I just received a Pfizer vaccine at one of those mass vaccination centers I did receive a card and you are correct I had to fill out my name. But to schedule a vaccine I had to enroll and create a health account through the state.  I can't schedule anything without logging into my account.  You must bring a valid ID to the vaccination and it is verified against your state health account.  I suspect any state that does not reliably track covid vaccines will not be included in the health passport program.      

[Biffire]

Assuming that vaccines are required, assuming there are 3000 people (guests and crew) aboard, assuming the vaccine is 95% effective, that would mean 150 people could get very sick. Doing the pre-cruise testing should make it better, but the tests are not perfect.I think some of the restrictions( 50% capacity, masks, social distancing, reduced social interactions) may remain if effect for awhile. No cruise line wants to have a bunch of people get sick and close down the industry once it finally opens again. I think we all need to decide which restrictions we will tolerate.Some will cruise regardless of  restrictions. Others may wish to wait and see if restrictions eventually go away. I just hope we get to make that choice soon.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, mianmike said:

 

Hawaii takes covid very seriously.  I'm confident they will not accept a health passport that is not verifiable. Here in Arizona where I just received a Pfizer vaccine at one of those mass vaccination centers I did receive a card and you are correct I had to fill out my name. But to schedule a vaccine I had to enroll and create a health account through the state.  I can't schedule anything without logging into my account.  You must bring a valid ID to the vaccination and it is verified against your state health account.  I suspect any state that does not reliably track covid vaccines will not be included in the health passport program.      

And, again, who tracks the crew, and passengers from overseas.

[oteixeira]

1 hour ago, Biffire said:

Assuming that vaccines are required, assuming there are 3000 people (guests and crew) aboard, assuming the vaccine is 95% effective, that would mean 150 people could get very sick. Doing the pre-cruise testing should make it better, but the tests are not perfect.I think some of the restrictions( 50% capacity, masks, social distancing, reduced social interactions) may remain if effect for awhile. No cruise line wants to have a bunch of people get sick and close down the industry once it finally opens again. I think we all need to decide which restrictions we will tolerate.Some will cruise regardless of  restrictions. Others may wish to wait and see if restrictions eventually go away. I just hope we get to make that choice soon.

Your only flaw is assuming people would get very sick.  The scientists involved with all of these vaccines have said clearly that after vaccination IF you get sick it would be much more like a normal flu if you even realized you had it.  They have said this over and over.  Not only does the vaccine protect you from getting it, it also drastically reduces the severeness of the sickness should you catch it.

[farmersfight]

@DCGuy64, @GA Dave

 

Hi guys. Would you guys mind shooting me an e-mail at;

 

martycp60@gmail.com

 

I need to ask you something. Thanks!

[mianmike]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

And, again, who tracks the crew, and passengers from overseas.

 

Good question.  Stay tuned.  The EU is pushing for an international health passport.  We'll see . . . 

Edited March 12, 2021 by mianmike

[Nebr.cruiser]

I'd be happy with dropping a mask requirement and having to do only ship tours.  Both of those would make me very reluctant to cruise.

[roger001]

Crystal Cruise Lines has announced 7 day crises out of the Bahamas starting in July.  However, check out the conditions.  Not for me.  

 

Crystal Serenity will operate with a number of new anti-coronavirus protocols including social distancing rules, mask mandates and health screenings, the line said. The ship also will operate at a reduced capacity, and all passengers will be required to have been fully inoculated with a COVID-19 vaccine at least 14 days prior to boarding the vessel.

The sailings will be available to book starting on March 18. Fares will start at $1,999 per passenger.

[lizzius]

6 hours ago, Biffire said:

Assuming that vaccines are required, assuming there are 3000 people (guests and crew) aboard, assuming the vaccine is 95% effective, that would mean 150 people could get very sick. Doing the pre-cruise testing should make it better, but the tests are not perfect.I think some of the restrictions( 50% capacity, masks, social distancing, reduced social interactions) may remain if effect for awhile. No cruise line wants to have a bunch of people get sick and close down the industry once it finally opens again. I think we all need to decide which restrictions we will tolerate.Some will cruise regardless of  restrictions. Others may wish to wait and see if restrictions eventually go away. I just hope we get to make that choice soon.

No, 150 people could possibly get infected (which would be a small miracle on its own) and go on to develop mild illness (and likely not even on the ship). Hardly very sick. 

[Trimone]

Had text from my GP to download this app: it give your full vaccine record, and input can only be added by your surgery...

[Turtles06]

3 hours ago, Trimone said:

Had text from my GP to download this app: it give your full vaccine record, and input can only be added by your surgery...

That’s great, but it’s because you have a National Health System.  

[hallux]

13 hours ago, mianmike said:

 

Hawaii takes covid very seriously.  I'm confident they will not accept a health passport that is not verifiable. Here in Arizona where I just received a Pfizer vaccine at one of those mass vaccination centers I did receive a card and you are correct I had to fill out my name. But to schedule a vaccine I had to enroll and create a health account through the state.  I can't schedule anything without logging into my account.  You must bring a valid ID to the vaccination and it is verified against your state health account.  I suspect any state that does not reliably track covid vaccines will not be included in the health passport program.      

And then there are people like myself, who was called out of the blue by their GP (other than my BMI I'm not in any risk groups, and 20 years younger than those currently eligible for general vaccination in my state) and offered the vaccine.  They pre-filled my card, but I don't have a state vaccination program record as it was done at my GP's office.  There needs to be some way for these apps to verify the validity of the record.

 

With my 2 week waiting period, I'll be ready to roll mid-April...

[teacherman]

When this pandemic began, we were told it would probably last for 12 to 18 months.  It has now been 12 months of "suggested" restrictions that most people tried to follow and some people refused to follow.  But if you stop and think how much things have improved in just the last 3 months, then who really knows how much things will change in the next 6 months?  I do not believe that cruise lines want to try and enforce a mask mandate on their ships.  They can't even enforce chair saving rules.  And even though many people are saying they will wear a mask if it means they can cruise again, I doubt they want to cruise again if it means it is a less enjoyable experience that it used to be.  And is maybe going to cost much more than it did just 12 months ago.