New indicator Vaccines Will Be Mandatory

[TeeRick]

1 minute ago, ECCruise said:

Yes.  And they will using these as their "test cruises" even though they won't be mandated by the CDC.  And, they will get revenue from them without offering them gratis in the USA.  These sailings will not meet any CDC requirements, but they can use them as shake down cruises. 

 

And why there is zero chance that I would be paying money to be on any of these early sailings. 

These limited cruises (with unvaccinated kids) will undoubtedly have COVID cases and might need to turn around.  So won't that set back the opening up of cruising by the CDC (an I told you so response).  This could ultimately backfire on the more wide spread cruising start up date.

[SnazzyD]

38 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

You understand the policy.  So why be frustrated?  Maybe disappointed?  You and I will require a vaccine as adult cruisers under current rules for the few ships venturing out to sea in the next few months.  You unfortunately will not be able to cruise unless you get vaccinated.  Perhaps the vaccine-only rules will change eventually as the virus becomes more controlled by herd immunity.  But in reality you might need other vacation choices for the foreseeable future.  There are a lot of avid cruisers likely to be in the same situation.   The virus has changed the world in many ways - far beyond cruising.

The frustration is from the simplistic assumption that a vaccinated person is 100% immune and cannot be a carrier. If it is that certain, why test as well and why insist on continuing anti-Covid measures? A group with a high transmission rate, kids, is allowed to just test. If it’s good enough for them, why isn’t it good enough for me with antibodies from having a Covid last year? At least I’ll be observing strict measures. Likely if I cancel my cruise I booked 18 months ago, I’ll lose my money because of an over simplified policy. 

[4774Papa]

1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

These limited cruises (with unvaccinated kids) will undoubtedly have COVID cases and might need to turn around.  So won't that set back the opening up of cruising by the CDC (an I told you so response).  This could ultimately backfire on the more wide spread cruising start up date.

We never see large numbers of kids on any of our cruises, even the shorter ones.  With a huge percentage of vaccinated adults, perhaps 80-90% and kids that are less likely to get COVID or if they do not get sick, why do you think someone will get COVID?  

Here in our community, the schools have been operating with about 80% in class instruction with very few COVID cases.

I suspect that excursions will be mandatory ship excursions to limit exposure to others at ports.

[Fouremco]

2 minutes ago, 4774Papa said:

We never see large numbers of kids on any of our cruises, even the shorter ones.  With a huge percentage of vaccinated adults, perhaps 80-90% and kids that are less likely to get COVID or if they do not get sick, why do you think someone will get COVID?  

Here in our community, the schools have been operating with about 80% in class instruction with very few COVID cases.

I suspect that excursions will be mandatory ship excursions to limit exposure to others at ports.

Well, we already know that there will not be mandatory ship excursions, so there's no limiting of exposure at the ports.

 

As you say, within your community schools there have been a number of COVID cases. But unless Celebrity's as yet undefined threshold allows for a few cases onboard before turning the ship around, even a single case might result in the cruise being terminated. While I think that the possibility is small, I'm not going to take a chance on wasted time and possibly dollars just to be one of the early enthusiasts to jump back on a cruise ship.

[TeeRick]

2 hours ago, 4774Papa said:

We never see large numbers of kids on any of our cruises, even the shorter ones.  With a huge percentage of vaccinated adults, perhaps 80-90% and kids that are less likely to get COVID or if they do not get sick, why do you think someone will get COVID?  

Here in our community, the schools have been operating with about 80% in class instruction with very few COVID cases.

I suspect that excursions will be mandatory ship excursions to limit exposure to others at ports.

The vast majority of kids will not be sick in school or anywhere else.  Kids are mostly asymptomatic for COVID symptoms.  But they can get infected and will test positive at least by the PCR type test.  If they are positive and asymptomatic they can infect other kids or non-vaccinated adults (like teachers).   

 

The standard on ships will be a positive test result.  It does not matter if the kid (or vaccinated adult) have zero COVID symptoms.  On a ship, if even a few kids test virus-positive at a certain threshold level (TBD), even if not sick, the cruise might end early.  That is the risk.  On the other hand, the real unanswered question is what will be the testing regimen onboard during the cruise?  Random testing including kids?  Maybe not.  TBD.  So perhaps asymptomatic infected kids will not even be discovered if they are not tested.  

[LGW59]

2 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

The vast majority of kids will not be sick in school or anywhere else.  Kids are mostly asymptomatic for COVID symptoms.  But they can get infected and will test positive at least by the PCR type test.  If they are positive and asymptomatic they can infect other kids or non-vaccinated adults (like teachers).   

 

The standard on ships will be a positive test result.  It does not matter if the kid (or vaccinated adult) have zero COVID symptoms.  On a ship, if even a few kids test virus-positive at a certain threshold level (TBD), even if not sick, the cruise might end early.  That is the risk.  On the other hand, the real unanswered question is what will be the testing regimen onboard during the cruise?  Random testing including kids?  Maybe not.  TBD.  So perhaps asymptomatic infected kids will not even be discovered if they are not tested.  

Don't understand why they are just not doing what they are doing in Israel, over 18 ONLY and must be vaccinated!

[TeeRick]

7 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

Don't understand why they are just not doing what they are doing in Israel, over 18 ONLY and must be vaccinated!

Yes agree.  For the first few months of cruising (at least) the ships should be vaccinated adults only.  They will be at reduced capacity anyway.  They can easily be filled by vaccinated adults.  They are shooting themselves in the foot in two ways by allowing unvaccinated kids.  1) risk of COVID on the ship and of returning early, and negative consequences of that, and 2) the probably large number of vaccinated adult passengers (like us) that will chooses not to cruise in this situation with kids.  They are limiting their customer base perhaps severely for these cruises by choosing to allow kids.

Edited March 21, 2021 by TeeRick

[4774Papa]

24 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Yes agree.  For the first few months of cruising (at least) the ships should be vaccinated adults only.  They will be at reduced capacity anyway.  They can easily be filled by vaccinated adults.  They are shooting themselves in the foot in two ways by allowing unvaccinated kids.  1) risk of COVID on the ship and of returning early, and negative consequences of that, and 2) the probably large number of vaccinated adult passengers (like us) that will chooses not to cruise in this situation with kids.  They are limiting their customer base perhaps severely for these cruises by choosing to allow kids.

Fouremco, I agree that one positive test would lead to at significant consequences for such a cruise, and potentially a termination of the cruise.  Not sure why the exception was made to include kids that will be unvaccinated.  Perhaps the cruise lines believe they can handle a few positive tests and continue cruising?  That would almost call for everyone to wear a bracelet for constant tracking.  TeeRick is right, they don't need kids to fill up the ship.

 

Another question for such a cruise, how frequently would testing be performed?  Prior and after every port visit?  

[MamaFej]

26 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Yes agree.  For the first few months of cruising (at least) the ships should be vaccinated adults only.  They will be at reduced capacity anyway.  They can easily be filled by vaccinated adults.  They are shooting themselves in the foot in two ways by allowing unvaccinated kids.  1) risk of COVID on the ship and of returning early, and negative consequences of that, and 2) the probably large number of vaccinated adult passengers (like us) that will chooses not to cruise in this situation with kids.  They are limiting their customer base perhaps severely for these cruises by choosing to allow kids.

I agree. It seems foolhardy to begin with unvaccinated children, not only for the reasons you mention, but because (this is pure intuition, not something I have proof of) parents who would bring unvaccinated kids on a cruise ship under these circumstances seem likely to be the sort who will not take other safety precautions seriously, thereby increasing the likelihood of Covid-related problems. 

[wrk2cruise]

Don't forget that the 1 positive test is going to affect anybody in the traveling party as well as close contacts identified with contact tracing.

[K.T.B.]

22 hours ago, LGW59 said:

Only if you will be my marketing manager!

You couldn't afford me.

 

[nocl]

3 hours ago, LGW59 said:

Don't understand why they are just not doing what they are doing in Israel, over 18 ONLY and must be vaccinated!

Different locations different rules. 

 

The cruises out of Italy and Germany have had pretty robust rules,  Pretty much in line with the EU guidelines published last year.  Each of the countries approved those procedures and rules.

 

Israel set and approved the requirements for cruises out of that country.

 

UK is setting the rules for those cruises out of the UK his summer.

 

Unfortunately I have not seen any guidelines published by the Health Ministries in either the Bahamas or St Martin concerning the cruise ship departures from their countries.  Makes me wonder if the countries are setting any standards that the cruise lines have to comply with or leaving it up to the cruise lines.  There seem to be some difference for example between what the cruise lines leaving from the Bahamas have stated so far.

 

 

[nocl]

3 hours ago, TeeRick said:

Yes agree.  For the first few months of cruising (at least) the ships should be vaccinated adults only.  They will be at reduced capacity anyway.  They can easily be filled by vaccinated adults.  They are shooting themselves in the foot in two ways by allowing unvaccinated kids.  1) risk of COVID on the ship and of returning early, and negative consequences of that, and 2) the probably large number of vaccinated adult passengers (like us) that will chooses not to cruise in this situation with kids.  They are limiting their customer base perhaps severely for these cruises by choosing to allow kids.

Also keep in mind that if the ships are not leaving from the US and not stopping at a US port there is no requirement for them to report the number of COVID cases that might occur on board to the CDC. 

 

Keeping in mind the secrecy that existed with COVID cases on ships after the passengers left, when the ships left US waters, I would not trust the cruise lines to be open about any cases that do occur, unless they absolutely have to. I doubt that the Bahamas or St Martin would have a requirement for public reporting of any cases that were to occur.

[TeeRick]

38 minutes ago, nocl said:

Different locations different rules. 

 

The cruises out of Italy and Germany have had pretty robust rules,  Pretty much in line with the EU guidelines published last year.  Each of the countries approved those procedures and rules.

 

Israel set and approved the requirements for cruises out of that country.

 

UK is setting the rules for those cruises out of the UK his summer.

 

Unfortunately I have not seen any guidelines published by the Health Ministries in either the Bahamas or St Martin concerning the cruise ship departures from their countries.  Makes me wonder if the countries are setting any standards that the cruise lines have to comply with or leaving it up to the cruise lines.  There seem to be some difference for example between what the cruise lines leaving from the Bahamas have stated so far.

 

 

I agree with your points and I would imagine these island nations have made some agreements with the cruise lines.  At least I hope so.  My opinion is that potential passengers should know in advance about the parts of the agreements that are specifically affecting them.  Now before they put deposits down.

[hcat]

Tests seem to  vary in terms of discomfort.  Prior to leaving Fla,  we had a pcr  test. The  Dr used a short swab and there was minimal discomfort. Three days after arrival in NY we went for a rapid test...They used a very long swab and went very far up...it was quite uncomfortable..both at time of test & awhile after. We would not  care to go through this daily for a rapid test while cruising,  esp if there are  more chances for a false positive.( perhaps less likely if vaccinated ?)

 

Our  4 yr old gs  had the rapid test before and after a Fl vacation...very brave.

In pre schools here,  if you have sniffles, a cold or even slight fever,   children  are sent home pending  a neg test & dr's  note saying  it's okay to return to class. Not taking chances to avoid shut downs...Many of the parents are essential health care workers/ teachers/ first responders and rely on the daycare being open.

 

Why any parent would take children on a ship with a  daily or frequent testing requirement is a puzzling, to me .. While kids  would  likely enjoy a perfect day at Cocoa Cay,  there are.many easier fun vacation options  that are opening up right now ( with capacity control) ! 

 

 Will cruise lines even open the kids clubs....germ factories to begin with?

 

 

[4774Papa]

1 hour ago, hcat said:

Tests seem to  vary in terms of discomfort.  Prior to leaving Fla,  we had a pcr  test. The  Dr used a short swab and there was minimal discomfort. Three days after arrival in NY we went for a rapid test...They used a very long swab and went very far up...it was quite uncomfortable..both at time of test & awhile after. We would not  care to go through this daily for a rapid test while cruising,  esp if there are  more chances for a false positive.( perhaps less likely if vaccinated ?)

 

Our  4 yr old gs  had the rapid test before and after a Fl vacation...very brave.

In pre schools here,  if you have sniffles, a cold or even slight fever,   children  are sent home pending  a neg test & dr's  note saying  it's okay to return to class. Not taking chances to avoid shut downs...Many of the parents are essential health care workers/ teachers/ first responders and rely on the daycare being open.

 

Why any parent would take children on a ship with a  daily or frequent testing requirement is a puzzling, to me .. While kids  would  likely enjoy a perfect day at Cocoa Cay,  there are.many easier fun vacation options  that are opening up right now ( with capacity control) ! 

 

 Will cruise lines even open the kids clubs....germ factories to begin with?

 

 

heat,

Agree on taking kids on cruises prior to child vaccines.

I do understand taking kids on vacations or travel.  I lived overseas for 9 years when I had children of Elementary, Middle and High School ages.   All of them now are addicted to travel, just like their parents.   We traveled to see historical places, art and scenic place, not to just go and relax.   Even my seven year old son was in awe of things like the Sistine Chapel and the Eiffel Tower.

[jerseygirl3]

19 hours ago, MamaFej said:

I agree. It seems foolhardy to begin with unvaccinated children, not only for the reasons you mention, but because (this is pure intuition, not something I have proof of) parents who would bring unvaccinated kids on a cruise ship under these circumstances seem likely to be the sort who will not take other safety precautions seriously, thereby increasing the likelihood of Covid-related problems. 

Exactly!  My 16 year old nephew was just diagnosed with Covid. He wasn’t feeling well (sore throat, headache, nasal congestion, etc). Had a PCR test and he’s positive. Only place he’s been is school. Lord knows how many others are now possibly infected, as well as whoever infected him. 

[mickey89]

Wow, saw the madness in Miami spring break on the news today.  We will stay clear of Florida until people realise we are still fighting the war..........looked like many youngers don't care less.

[MamaFej]

1 hour ago, jerseygirl3 said:

Exactly!  My 16 year old nephew was just diagnosed with Covid. He wasn’t feeling well (sore throat, headache, nasal congestion, etc). Had a PCR test and he’s positive. Only place he’s been is school. Lord knows how many others are now possibly infected, as well as whoever infected him. 

I sincerely hope he has a rapid and complete recovery. 

[poffles]

Maybe it's lost here but for the vaccines that two doses over time, is it assumed that a passenger would have to have the second dose to be what they accept as 'vaccinated?'  Just curious if this is assumed or if it is said anywhere or if perhaps any vaccine, even a first shot, would be considered enough. 

 

I then think, is there a timeframe from when you got the shot that might matter since it takes a bit for the anticipated efficacy to fully kick in, in any case.  My deep thoughts mind is cycling 🙂

 

 

Edited March 22, 2021 by poffles

[nocl]

On 3/21/2021 at 7:02 AM, TeeRick said:

These limited cruises (with unvaccinated kids) will undoubtedly have COVID cases and might need to turn around.  So won't that set back the opening up of cruising by the CDC (an I told you so response).  This could ultimately backfire on the more wide spread cruising start up date.

Depends if the cruise line even reports if anyone had COVID. Certainly they would not have to report to the CDC.

 

I suspect that the cruise line will notify anyone that they show has been in contact with someone, but I would not count on the cruise line making a public announcement that a case has been detected unless their "threshold" has been reached and the cruise is impacted.  I will be pleasantly surprised if they do announce it, but I would not count on it.

 

If they do not announce then the only place they might have to notify would be the host country when that passenger disembarks. All depends upon their agreement with the country, which is not exactly public information.

[nocl]

8 hours ago, excitedofharpenden said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56479462

 

I'll take my advice from sources I deem to be reliable rather than those mentioned anecdotally on an anonymous cruise message board. There is so much scaremongering out there just now. 

 

Incidentally, I had my first Oxford AZN jab three weeks ago. No adverse effects and totally painless. I couldn't even see where the needle went in!  Bring on second one end of May. 

 

Phil 

A 30,000 person trial is unlikely to detect a 1 in 7 million event

 

Apparently a research team in Germany has identified the trigger in the vaccine

 

https://www.dw.com/en/astrazeneca-german-team-discovers-thrombosis-trigger/a-56925550

 

The investigation showed how the vaccine caused rare thrombosis in the brain in a small number of patients.

 

The success was a result of cooperation between the Greifswald hospital, state health regulator the Paul Ehrlich Institute (PEI), as well as doctors in Austria — a nurse there died from thrombosis in the brain after being vaccinated with the AstraZeneca jab.

 

 Or as the EMA tweeted

 

EMA’s safety committee (PRAC) concludes that the benefits of the #COVID19Vaccine AstraZeneca still outweigh its risks despite possible link to rare blood clots associated with low levels of blood platelets

 

[nocl]

19 hours ago, TeeRick said:

I agree with your points and I would imagine these island nations have made some agreements with the cruise lines.  At least I hope so.  My opinion is that potential passengers should know in advance about the parts of the agreements that are specifically affecting them.  Now before they put deposits down.

In  the Caribbean I would be surprised if the countries put any more requirements on the cruise lines than they have for people flying into their country, as far as the ship deals with COVID.  Which pretty much would mean testing.  

 

Though there is probably some agreement for cases of sick passengers.  Kind of like the policies that some islands have if you develop COVID while on vacation and have to quarantine there.

[Fouremco]

1 hour ago, poffles said:

Maybe it's lost here but for the vaccines that two doses over time, is it assumed that a passenger would have to have the second dose to be what they accept as 'vaccinated?'  Just curious if this is assumed or if it is said anywhere or if perhaps any vaccine, even a first shot, would be considered enough. 

 

I then think, is there a timeframe from when you got the shot that might matter since it takes a bit for the anticipated efficacy to fully kick in, in any case.  My deep thoughts mind is cycling 🙂

 

 

Somewhere in the maze of threads dealing with the issue, possibly on one of the St. Maarten cruise threads, it was stated that that you had to be fully vaccinated two weeks beforehand. So for J&J, your one shot, but both shots for the others.

[Arizona Wildcat]

On 3/21/2021 at 7:42 AM, SnazzyD said:

The frustration is from the simplistic assumption that a vaccinated person is 100% immune and cannot be a carrier. If it is that certain, why test as well and why insist on continuing anti-Covid measures? A group with a high transmission rate, kids, is allowed to just test. If it’s good enough for them, why isn’t it good enough for me with antibodies from having a Covid last year? At least I’ll be observing strict measures. Likely if I cancel my cruise I booked 18 months ago, I’ll lose my money because of an over simplified policy. 

I don't think any of the main posters here - or Celebrity - is assuming vaccines are 100% effective for COVID or anything else.

Testing is nearly complete for children 12-17.  That will sort that group.  Will be well into 2022 to get down to the much younger children.  I am willing to cruise with unvaccinated children - especially on X where there usually have been under 10 kids on board.

If you feel discriminated am sorry.  You have the right to cancel and receive a combo of refunds and FCC.  If a vaccine was available for under 18 am sure it would be required.  Cruiselines are simply doing the best possible protocols to avoid an outbreak on board.  Vaccine is #1.  Testing today a distant #2.