The madness of the upcoming virus cruise policies

[compman9]

It seems when one cruise-line details a policy, others quickly follow. Without naming names (it's not just Royal making weird decisions)

 

Passengers have to be vaccinated to travel - But you have to wear a mask !

 

All passengers will need to be vaccinated - But not the ship staff, shore-side staff, baggage handlers etc !

 

You will need vaccines, masks, test certificates, be tested before you board, virtually swim in sanitizer - But all goods arriving to the quartermaster could have been handled by anyone all over the world !

 

You will have to go on a ship's tour when you leave the ship - But will be exposed to unsanitized coaches, outdoor spaces, products, food, and people !

 

Contradictory madness

 

[Biker19]

11 minutes ago, compman9 said:

Contradictory madness

It seems to me you either trust the cruise line to keep you safe (and ignore just about everything else about the subject) or you indulge in going down the various rabbit holes of vaccine debate threads on CC.

[A&L_Ont]

Another thread for the rabbit hole.
 

Want to cruise, follow the rules.  Don’t like the rules, don’t cruise until they revert to how you like them. 

[billf0401]

We have been on many cruises and would very much like to go on the 2 we have booked for Oct, 21 and Jan, 22.  We are very disappointed that this appears unlikely for us.  We will not board a cruise that requires a mask be worn.  That requirement would not make for an enjoyable experience.  We have been vaccinated.  Perhaps our cruising days are all in the past.

[twangster]

It's almost like there is a pandemic going on in the world.  Crazy.  

 

 

Edited March 18, 2021 by twangster

[ace2542]

1 hour ago, compman9 said:

It seems when one cruise-line details a policy, others quickly follow. Without naming names (it's not just Royal making weird decisions)

 

Passengers have to be vaccinated to travel - But you have to wear a mask !

 

All passengers will need to be vaccinated - But not the ship staff, shore-side staff, baggage handlers etc !

 

You will need vaccines, masks, test certificates, be tested before you board, virtually swim in sanitizer - But all goods arriving to the quartermaster could have been handled by anyone all over the world !

 

You will have to go on a ship's tour when you leave the ship - But will be exposed to unsanitized coaches, outdoor spaces, products, food, and people !

 

Contradictory madness

 

Cruise ships are and will be the biggest source of spread in the world for Covid 19? What other vacation type allows for such a spread? None I can think of not for a such a long period of time. So masks should be worn for life to prevent it.

 

I don't think they know how to vaccinate staff at least not very easily. It may be some time before the single shot Johnson vaccine is up for corporate purchase. So again masks should be worn for life to protect the staff.

 

Vaccines cost  companies money? Masks don't? And the staff really are now prisoners on the ships. Unvaccinated they will not be allowed off.

 

 

[cruisegirl1976]

There is to much uncertainty right now.. , we only here bits and pieces of what the cruise industry is trying to do , but nothing is set in stone.

[livingonthebeach]

5 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

Cruise ships are and will be the biggest source of spread in the world for Covid 19? What other vacation type allows for such a spread? None I can think of not for a such a long period of time. So masks should be worn for life to prevent it.

 

I don't think they know how to vaccinate staff at least not very easily. It may be some time before the single shot Johnson vaccine is up for corporate purchase. So again masks should be worn for life to protect the staff.

 

Vaccines cost  companies money? Masks don't? And the staff really are now prisoners on the ships. Unvaccinated they will not be allowed off.

 

Masks for life? This is the type of off-the-wall comment that completely discredits the rest of your posts, no matter how factual or logical they may seem.  

 

I don't believe cruise ships are and will be the biggest source of Covid19 spread in the world as presently they are not operational.  In the past, if you look at the numbers, the cases from cruise ships were a drop in the bucket compared to the total cases.  In the future, vaccine requirements and safety protocols will preclude super spreader events and a cruise experience (fantasy world) as you see it. 

 

[smokeybandit]

19 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

Cruise ships are and will be the biggest source of spread in the world for Covid 19?

Based on what?

[ace2542]

Just now, livingonthebeach said:

 

Masks for life? This is the type of off-the-wall comment that completely discredits the rest of your posts, no matter how factual or logical they may seem.  

 

I don't believe cruise ships are and will be the biggest source of Covid19 spread in the world as presently they are not operational.  In the past, if you look at the numbers, the cases from cruise ships were a drop in the bucket compared to the total cases.  In the future, vaccine requirements and safety protocols will preclude super spreader events and a cruise experience (fantasy world) as you see it. 

 

They will be the biggest source when they get going again.  

 

IF a person boards Harmony with Covid on it's Westbound TA Barca to South Florida when at full occupy or at least every cabin is sold or they claim every cabin is with no masks being worn but all passengers vaccinated or claiming to be vaccinated. How many infections will they get onboard? 9k people onboard vaccine 90% effective. 900 possible infections at least? Or more than 900 though they won't be serious? So 900 cases at least in 15 days?. I can't think of a mainland event which has had that level of infection? Not Sturgis? Not the Liverpool v Madrid Soccer game?

[ace2542]

1 minute ago, smokeybandit said:

Based on what?

The fact everyone is together in a "bubble of the ship" or "the bubble of the ship" for what a week, 2 weeks, 16 days?

Edited March 18, 2021 by ace2542

[Joseph2017China]

I generally do not wear a mask, go out to eat, shop and pretty much lead a normal life, but occasionally, I go on vacation, or a day trip, or go someplace, where the requirement is wear a mask, like a trip to Las Vegas or a day at Disney World. I put that mask on, because I'm not giving up my year of life, because of a mask.  Sure, I don't like it, but the reality is the pandemic is nearing the end, but until than, I will follow the requirements.  Even though I now have been vaccinated.....I will walk around with a mask on in the hotel, or on a ship, or at Disney.  We already wear articles of clothing we don't always like because it is required, and so a mask is just that.  

[ToroAzul]

If you are scared to cruise, don't cruise.

 

I won't wear a mask and be micro-managed on vacation.

[MiniChunks]

23 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

Cruise ships are and will be the biggest source of spread in the world for Covid 19? What other vacation type allows for such a spread? None I can think of not for a such a long period of time. So masks should be worn for life to prevent it.

 

I don't think they know how to vaccinate staff at least not very easily. It may be some time before the single shot Johnson vaccine is up for corporate purchase. So again masks should be worn for life to protect the staff.

 

Vaccines cost  companies money? Masks don't? And the staff really are now prisoners on the ships. Unvaccinated they will not be allowed off.

 

 

 

You have a very unique outlook on things. I really can't imagine living life in fear at this level. 

[Milwaukee Eight]

8 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Based on what?

Reruns of US TV shows. 

[Joseph2017China]

6 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

They will be the biggest source when they get going again.  

 

IF a person boards Harmony with Covid on it's Westbound TA Barca to South Florida when at full occupy or at least every cabin is sold or they claim every cabin is with no masks being worn but all passengers vaccinated or claiming to be vaccinated. How many infections will they get onboard? 9k people onboard vaccine 90% effective. 900 possible infections at least? Or more than 900 though they won't be serious? So 900 cases at least in 15 days?. I can't think of a mainland event which has had that level of infection? Not Sturgis? Not the Liverpool v Madrid Soccer game?

Pretty poor math.  Each person with a vaccine is over 90% protected.  If only Protected people enter the ship, than the odds are really low that a protected person is carrying it.  If they are, the level of the disease is even lower because it did not have a stronghold.  So, if one person carries it on, and it is a weakened virus at that point, you will never get 900 cases.  It does not spread like that.  You might find a small handful of people w/o symthoms get it, and test positive.....but that is about it

 

[livingonthebeach]

7 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

They will be the biggest source when they get going again.  

 

IF a person boards Harmony with Covid on it's Westbound TA Barca to South Florida when at full occupy or at least every cabin is sold or they claim every cabin is with no masks being worn but all passengers vaccinated or claiming to be vaccinated. How many infections will they get onboard? 9k people onboard vaccine 90% effective. 900 possible infections at least? Or more than 900 though they won't be serious? So 900 cases at least in 15 days?. I can't think of a mainland event which has had that level of infection? Not Sturgis? Not the Liverpool v Madrid Soccer game?

 

It is 95% efficacy for Pfizer and around the same for Moderna.  Most people have the misconception about efficacy and the math as you do.

 

Actually, from a scientifc journal site:

"One common misunderstanding is that 95% efficacy means that in the Pfizer clinical trial, 5% of vaccinated people got COVID. But that's not true; the actual percentage of vaccinated people in the Pfizer (and Moderna) trials who got COVID-19 was about a hundred times less than that: 0.04%.

 

What the 95% actually means is that vaccinated people had a 95% lower risk of getting COVID-19 compared with the control group participants, who weren't vaccinated. In other words, vaccinated people in the Pfizer clinical trial were 20 times less likely than the control group to get COVID-19." 

[ace2542]

5 minutes ago, Joseph2017China said:

Pretty poor math.  Each person with a vaccine is over 90% protected.  If only Protected people enter the ship, than the odds are really low that a protected person is carrying it.  If they are, the level of the disease is even lower because it did not have a stronghold.  So, if one person carries it on, and it is a weakened virus at that point, you will never get 900 cases.  It does not spread like that.  You might find a small handful of people w/o symthoms get it, and test positive.....but that is about it

 

Pretty poor math? 9000 people onboard 90% effective vaccine if all have vaccine then 10% of people the vaccine will not be effective in? So that is 900 people upon whom the vaccine has not worked? Or am I missing something.

Edited March 18, 2021 by ace2542

[ace2542]

3 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

It is 95% efficacy for Pfizer and around the same for Moderna.  Most people have the misconception about efficacy and the math as you do.

 

Actually, from a scientifc journal site:

"One common misunderstanding is that 95% efficacy means that in the Pfizer clinical trial, 5% of vaccinated people got COVID. But that's not true; the actual percentage of vaccinated people in the Pfizer (and Moderna) trials who got COVID-19 was about a hundred times less than that: 0.04%.

 

What the 95% actually means is that vaccinated people had a 95% lower risk of getting COVID-19 compared with the control group participants, who weren't vaccinated. In other words, vaccinated people in the Pfizer clinical trial were 20 times less likely than the control group to get COVID-19." 

So about 40 people will catch Covid on the 9000 person Harmony. That is very small figure. A very encouraging figure.

[Milwaukee Eight]

Harmony of the Seas passenger and crew capacity at normal is ~ 7500. Not 9000. 

[livingonthebeach]

3 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

So about 40 people will catch Covid on the 9000 person Harmony. That is very small figure. A very encouraging figure.

 

9000 is way over capacity for Harmony -- not even at the peak of times pre-covid was Harmony ever at 9000.  At the beginning of the restart occupancy will be very limited.

[livingonthebeach]

10 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

Pretty poor math? 9000 people onboard 90% effective vaccine if all have vaccine then 10% of people the vaccine will not be effective in? So that is 900 people upon whom the vaccine has not worked? Or am I missing something.

 

Yes, you are missing a lot of things.  Do some research before you come back. 

[vacationlover_mn]

18 minutes ago, ToroAzul said:

If you are scared to cruise, don't cruise.

 

I won't wear a mask and be micro-managed on vacation.

Not to argue- but if you are scared to wear a mask, then don’t cruise?

[not-enough-cruising]

30 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

They will be the biggest source when they get going again.  

 

IF a person boards Harmony with Covid on it's Westbound TA Barca to South Florida when at full occupy or at least every cabin is sold or they claim every cabin is with no masks being worn but all passengers vaccinated or claiming to be vaccinated. How many infections will they get onboard? 9k people onboard vaccine 90% effective. 900 possible infections at least? Or more than 900 though they won't be serious? So 900 cases at least in 15 days?. I can't think of a mainland event which has had that level of infection? Not Sturgis? Not the Liverpool v Madrid Soccer game?

That mist be some UK math, because from my statistics classes (granted 35 years ago) this just does not compute. 

[ToroAzul]

13 minutes ago, vacationlover_mn said:

Not to argue- but if you are scared to wear a mask, then don’t cruise?

 

Not to argue?