New proposed Flordia law regarding Vaccination checks.

[ledges1]

19 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Would you agree that with freedom comes responsibility? There are a number of ways to help mitigate the virus - e.g.vaccines,  masks, social distancing, etc. It is everyone's responsibility to reduce the spread of the virus with a best effort, not disdain. It seems the conservatives say they will have no part of any of it. That won't get the job done, and sure seems like shirking responsibility. Freedom without responsibility is adolescence. Adults need to take responsibility.

 

To think politicians, any of them, don't listen to their sponsors at least as much as to their constituents is naive.

I am conservative and got vaccinated.  Do not paint all conservatives with a broad brush or based on some of the individuals posting on this site. There are many on the other side of the aisle that are afraid of the shot. This site is not the real world. Someone earlier indicated that cruise critic was for cruise nuts. I think they really meant enthusiast. The more I read the comments, I am not sure. 

[Joebucks]

3 hours ago, naxer said:

When it comes to public accommodation, which is always tricky, you say It is crossing the line for a private business to take medical advice, do what it can to diminish the spread of a pandemic, remain in business, and lessen the chance that the plans of 100s of thousands of its customers and the livelihood of tens of thousands of its employees is affected detrimentally.  It's funny how we view things through such different lenses, because I think this is a clear example of when a private business should be able to make its own decisions. 

 

What "private businesses" want these days is subjective to many things. Do we really believe that big corporations would otherwise agree with all regulations that the hive-mind says? No, corporations are all about whatever is popular and least resistance. Bravo to DeSantis for not pouring fuel on this fire. 

[naxer]

1 minute ago, Joebucks said:

 

Do we really believe that big corporations would otherwise agree with all regulations that the hive-mind says? 

I don't quite understand what you're arguing here.  But, in the instance of cruising, what's it to you whether or not a corporation follows the "hive mind" or not?  If you like what they do, cruise on them.  If you don't, don't cruise on them. Why do you want the government involved?

[Joebucks]

6 minutes ago, naxer said:

I don't quite understand what you're arguing here.  But, in the instance of cruising, what's it to you whether or not a corporation follows the "hive mind" or not?  If you like what they do, cruise on them.  If you don't, don't cruise on them. Why do you want the government involved?

 

What I am saying is corporate policies are formed by the environment around them. People are now only advocating for the "choice of private business" these days because they are essentially being forced to follow liberal policy or be shunned.

 

If you honestly, objectively, and realistically think that all of the stakeholders involved in cruising said "you know what, we want to mandate (anything really) vaccines because that is the responsible thing to do" then you are completely blind. They are desperate to do anything that would allow them to sail again.

[firefly333]

They are already saying a yearly booster shot will be needed. At some pt we need to learn to live with covid. Carnival will either be around or not depending on the whims of politicians. No one knows yet as there is no sign of resuming from the us. 

 

Carnival could be only cruising from other countries not controlled by the cdc. Outcome unknown. 

[Homosassa]

Thanks to Honolulu Blue for providing the citation.

 

I read the proposed bill. It covers the formation of a public health emergency plan. A section of the bill includes the requirement when necessary to protect public health that testing for a disease, quarantine and vaccination be mandatory.

 

The section that the OP refers to has exactly the same loophole that the executive order has concerning the requirement of Covid 19 disease status and vaccination. 

 

If such information is a federal or state requirement, then it the requiring of the information is mandatory.  

 

To put it in cruise terms, if the CDC comes to an agreement with a cruise line where vaccination is a requirement for cruising, then that agreement supersedes any posturing by the state of Florida on forbidding the information to conduct business.

 

Here is the applicable text from the proposed bill:

 

381.00316 COVID-19 vaccine documentation.—  (1) A business entity, as defined in s. 768.38 to include  any business operating in this state, may not require patrons or  customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 817 vaccination or post-infection recovery to gain access to, entry  upon, or service from the business' operations in this state.  This subsection does not otherwise restrict businesses from instituting screening protocols in accordance with state or federal law to protect public health.  (2) A governmental entity, as defined in s. 768.38, may not require any documentation certifying COVID-19 vaccination or  post-infection recovery to gain access to, entry upon, or service from the governmental entity's operations in this state

This subsection does not otherwise restrict governmental entities from instituting screening protocols in accordance with state or federal law to protect public health.  (3) An educational institution, as defined in s. 768.38, 830 may not require students or residents to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 vaccination or post-infection  recovery for attendance or enrollment, or to gain access to, entry upon, or service from the educational institution in this  state. This subsection does not otherwise restrict educational  institutions from instituting screening protocols in accordance with state or federal law to protect public health.  (4) A violation of this section may result in a fine imposed by the department, not to exceed $5,000 per violation.(5) This section does not apply to a health care provider  as defined in s. 768.38; a provider licensed or certified under  s. 393.17, part III of chapter 401, or part IV of chapter 468; or a provider with an active health care clinic exemption under 843 s. 400.9935.

 

[Homosassa]

To further illustrate what is deemed necessary by Florida state officials to public health, I give the following example"

 

My husband and I volunteer at a Florida state park. Florida state has the following restrictions in place for operations of the parks:

 

1. Masks must be worn by staff and volunteers,

 

2. Social distancing will be followed by staff and volunteers. This means in our park that educational programs, certain enclosed spaces, and tram and boat transportation are discontinued as social distancing is not possible for those areas or activities.

 

3. Staff diagnosed with Covid 19 has a mandatory minimum two week period of not reporting for work.  A negative Covid 19 test must be provided before returning. 

 

4. The fact that my husband and I are vaccinated is part of our volunteer file (mask and social distancing still required).

 

These are the restriction that are in place that I know of as they impact on my volunteer duties. There are other requirements for staff that do not apply to me.

 

These restrictions have been a shock to some out of state park visitors who thought the state was totally restriction free.

[firefly333]

6 minutes ago, fyree39 said:

I am one who was completely freaked out by Covid. I was scared to death of it. Now? I'm much calmer and don't fear it like I did. So, that in mind, I'm OK with no vaccine passports in the US. I understand why they'd be needed to travel out-of-country, but not in-country. Yet can we as a nation decide for other countries we visit (via cruise ship) what their requirements should be? It's a tough one.

Lots of assumptions. Where do you come up with cruise ships are deciding for other countries? Please provide links to this. 

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, fyree39 said:

I am one who was completely freaked out by Covid. I was scared to death of it. Now? I'm much calmer and don't fear it like I did. So, that in mind, I'm OK with no vaccine passports in the US. I understand why they'd be needed to travel out-of-country, but not in-country. Yet can we as a nation decide for other countries we visit (via cruise ship) what their requirements should be? It's a tough one.

 

We, as a nation, have no authority or other nations, despite a history of trying just that.

 

I can see a vaccine passport as also useful for returning to the US from foreign countries without having to jump through extra hoops like quarantine. Not just for covid, but to have in place for future pandemics and diseases. It doesn't hurt to try to be ahead of the curve for once.

[crewsweeper]

2 hours ago, Homosassa said:

To further illustrate what is deemed necessary by Florida state officials to public health, I give the following example"

 

My husband and I volunteer at a Florida state park. Florida state has the following restrictions in place for operations of the parks:

 

1. Masks must be worn by staff and volunteers,

 

2. Social distancing will be followed by staff and volunteers. This means in our park that educational programs, certain enclosed spaces, and tram and boat transportation are discontinued as social distancing is not possible for those areas or activities.

 

3. Staff diagnosed with Covid 19 has a mandatory minimum two week period of not reporting for work.  A negative Covid 19 test must be provided before returning. 

 

4. The fact that my husband and I are vaccinated is part of our volunteer file (mask and social distancing still required).

 

These are the restriction that are in place that I know of as they impact on my volunteer duties. There are other requirements for staff that do not apply to me.

 

These restrictions have been a shock to some out of state park visitors who thought the state was totally restriction free.

Are you in FL now?

I row on a lake in a FL State Park. Lots of high school rowers are there too.  No masks required for outside. Plus in Sarasota this weekend at Nathan Benson State Park, the high schools are rowing their championship series.  Pictures I've seen aren't showing mask wearers outside.  Not sure about the seating.

[crewsweeper]

Article in our local newspaper this AM on how Senators Scott and Rubio and one of the Alaskan Senator's bill to urge the CDC to lift restrictions on cruising was defeated because of Democrats voting against it.  Even Washington State's and California's Senators.  So much for all hopes to start cruising out of West Coast.

 

Oh and zippo on the FL bill on the no vaccine passports  Heading into the last week of session, maybe tomorrow's paper will give an update of what's likely to move forward.

Edited April 24, 2021 by crewsweeper

[BlerkOne]

3 minutes ago, crewsweeper said:

Article in our local newspaper this AM on how Senators Scott and Rubio and one of the Alaskan Senator's bill to urge the CDC to lift restrictions on cruising was defeated because of Democrats voting against it.  Even Washington State's and California's Senators.  So much for all hopes to start cruising out of West Coast.

No political slant to that newspaper and/or the post. It was never voted on.

 

The bill was blocked and sanity prevailed.

 

A bill championed by Sen. Dan Sullivan of Alaska and Sens. Rick Scott and Marco Rubio of Florida to restart the cruise industry in a safe manner was blocked by Sen. Patty Murray of Washington state on Wednesday.

 

The Careful Resumption Under Improved Safety Enhancements (CRUISE) Act made it to the Senate floor, but Murray objected, and that kept the bill from passing.

 

“While I am as eager as anyone else to see a return to travel, we cannot cut corners. Doing so risks lives and will only further delay returning to normal, hurting our economy more in the long run,” Murray said.

 

“We must trust the science and we must allow the CDC to continue its work to help us return to what we love as safely as possible. So I will continue to work with CDC and the administration as they develop the next phase of their cruising guidance, but for now, I object,” Murray said.

[BlerkOne]

3 hours ago, ledges1 said:

I am conservative and got vaccinated.  Do not paint all conservatives with a broad brush or based on some of the individuals posting on this site. There are many on the other side of the aisle that are afraid of the shot. This site is not the real world. Someone earlier indicated that cruise critic was for cruise nuts. I think they really meant enthusiast. The more I read the comments, I am not sure. 

Yes, there are many moderate conservatives and confused liberals. My post is not about the vaccine but about those opposed to all mitigation methods including masks, distancing, etc. Do what you can to get the virus under control and don't worry about temporary inconvenience.

[rjrpar]

On 4/22/2021 at 1:16 PM, jedi bobs said:

Becuse of the new proposed law banniing any busness including cruise lines from requiring proof of vacinaton or reciving a $5000 fine per person per violation, will mean all cruise lines will pull out of Flordia even if CDC allows crusing.  The reason is this, the Bahamas require all cruise passangers be vacanated, and without proof they will not be able to enter the bahamas so there goes the bahamas as a destanation, if other contries follow suit the cruise lines will not be able to go anywhere.

Relax and let the adults handle this one. The cruise lines are not pulling out of Florida.

[florida eagle]

2 hours ago, fyree39 said:

I am one who was completely freaked out by Covid. I was scared to death of it. Now? I'm much calmer and don't fear it like I did. So, that in mind, I'm OK with no vaccine passports in the US. I understand why they'd be needed to travel out-of-country, but not in-country. Yet can we as a nation decide for other countries we visit (via cruise ship) what their requirements should be? It's a tough one.

We have let people into our nation with illnesses and diseases once eradicated here. And they have started again. To see other nations not accept us is something to ponder. And they definitely need our money.

[Homosassa]

1 hour ago, crewsweeper said:

Are you in FL now?

I row on a lake in a FL State Park. Lots of high school rowers are there too.  No masks required for outside. Plus in Sarasota this weekend at Nathan Benson State Park, the high schools are rowing their championship series.  Pictures I've seen aren't showing mask wearers outside.  Not sure about the seating.

Yes, I am. I live fill time in Florida now that I am retired.  I have kept the Columbia, MD in my hometown listing as I still spend time up there visiting our daughter and, on occasion when I comment on Baltimore port and the environs, it might let someone know that I do have experience in the area.

 

Masks are required for the staff and volunteers where  I volunteer. Depending on the visitors' scientific sophistication, assessment of personal risk and upbringing on societal responsibility, they may or may not wear masks.   A good number, adults and children, do wear masks.

 

I volunteer at the Ellie Schiller Homosassa Springs Wildlife State Park.  It is an unique park in the state system and for visitors familiar with the sometimes close quarters on the boardwalks and paths, masks make good sense.

 

Edited April 24, 2021 by Homosassa

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, florida eagle said:

We have let people into our nation with illnesses and diseases once eradicated here. And they have started again.

I imagine the indigenous people said something similar of the invading hoards from Europe and elsewhere.

[BlerkOne]

5 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

What "private businesses" want these days is subjective to many things. Do we really believe that big corporations would otherwise agree with all regulations that the hive-mind says? No, corporations are all about whatever is popular and least resistance. Bravo to DeSantis for not pouring fuel on this fire. 

Hive-minded is what I think accurately describes the orange cult.

 

Corporations, like governments, are all about money. Neither really cares about lives or environment. Both are mainly concerned with power and keeping it. Elections are just a bother to them.

 

 

[Buckeyefrank100]

On 4/22/2021 at 4:15 PM, ProgRockCruiser said:

We've been over this: A state (i.e. Florida) cannot enact laws that impact inter-state or international business, including travel.

 

Cruise lines are international travel.

 

The notion that Desantis's "law" (which I suspect will get challenged and found "unlawful") applies to cruising is very tenuous.  

More importantly the federal government cannot require US citizens to have a medical vaccine that is unapproved and still in the trial phase.  There is no precedent for that and they cannot force business to require it either.  

[asalligo]

Mexico not requiring it, Bahamas not requiring it. This is a non issue, vaccination requirements will not stop cruising from the US. We only have one hinderance to US port cruising. The CDC. 

[BlerkOne]

49 minutes ago, Buckeyefrank100 said:

More importantly the federal government cannot require US citizens to have a medical vaccine that is unapproved and still in the trial phase.  There is no precedent for that and they cannot force business to require it either.  

It cannot prevent a business from requiring it, or make extra hoops necessary for the unvaccinated.

 

My business, my rules unless a protected class.

[BlerkOne]

4 minutes ago, asalligo said:

Mexico not requiring it, Bahamas not requiring it. This is a non issue, vaccination requirements will not stop cruising from the US. We only have one hinderance to US port cruising. The CDC. 

Both can quarantine you on foreign soil if you show up positive. They can spot check anyone.

[asalligo]

1 minute ago, BlerkOne said:

Both can quarantine you on foreign soil if you show up positive. They can spot check anyone.

That does not bother me. 

 

Hey, if you follow any of the conspiracy theory pages, they are adamant this vaccine is designed to kill 80% of everyone who takes it in a plan to depopulate the planet. That would make for some nice cruising. 

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, asalligo said:

That does not bother me. 

 

Doesn't bother me at all, other than you might have substandard care.

 

1 hour ago, asalligo said:

Hey, if you follow any of the conspiracy theory pages, they are adamant this vaccine is designed to kill 80% of everyone who takes it in a plan to depopulate the planet. That would make for some nice cruising. 

 

I don't. They all come here to share.

[florida eagle]

On 4/24/2021 at 3:26 PM, BlerkOne said:

I imagine the indigenous people said something similar of the invading hoards from Europe and elsewhere.

You can give up your wealth for their cause and then leave to live somewhere else. The world whether you and I like it is about conquering. You from your posts seem to have a good life from it. Enjoying all the comforts that life can afford you. Cruises are enjoyed by many who like to take many. The people employed on ships from the far east are very intelligent. With many more so then many people who are cruising. The accident of birth engenders the ugly American. Guilt without giving it up is nothing.