New proposed Flordia law regarding Vaccination checks.

[firefly333]

2 minutes ago, musbeus said:

Here is a link for Belize. https://www.belizetourismboard.org/news-and-gallery/belize-covid-19-update/

 

I am not saying that some of those countries do not have options. Some do allow for pre/post arrival testing in conjunction with quarantines. Israel appears to be the most strict. They do not ask for a vaccine card. Israel is planning to do a blood titer test. 

Having options, either or  means it's not required. You can present proof of vaccination OR negative covid test.

 

Not the same as requiring proof of vaccination.  

 

Who knows the future. I was just saying its  it required. Not sure why you would post its required, when it's just a option if you want to go there. But ok. 

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, Joebucks said:

There it is. The funniest thing I've read all day. Florida wants to remove regulation and burdens on cruise lines. Therefore cruise lines should want to pull out of Florida.

Odd that people who so oppose government control think it is okay for government to control how private companies can run their businesses. Especially businesses that don't receive government dollars.

[firefly333]

2 minutes ago, musbeus said:

@firefly333 If you read the page completely, they are not open at all for cruises. They have cruising as part of Phase 5 opening. 

Why keep quoting me. Either is the usa open for cruises. Or caymans .. or many others. 

 

I'm sure carnival will route to ports that want the business. 

 

For instance the rcl cruises out of Nassau only go to bahamas and cozumel I think. Obviously ports that want cruises. Knowing how poor Belize is we will see what they say closer to resuming.

 

I personally dont see usa cruises for a pretty long while. Hope I'm wrong.

 

 

[BlerkOne]

9 minutes ago, musbeus said:

Here is a link for Belize. https://www.belizetourismboard.org/news-and-gallery/belize-covid-19-update/

 

I am not saying that some of those countries do not have options. Some do allow for pre/post arrival testing in conjunction with quarantines. Israel appears to be the most strict. They do not ask for a vaccine card. Israel is planning to do a blood titer test. 

Belize is one of the few countries that are only at advisory level 2. The risk of catching covid or being murdered is probably about the same. There are a lot of Americans that live there so that might be one factor.

[bafinegan]

3 hours ago, sanger727 said:

 

But if a caribbean country requires quarantining and vaccination proof bypasses that, itsn't that the same thing? It will be impossible for a cruise ship passenger to quarantine mid cruise. Therefore, the only way the ship will be able to allow passengers to get off is by requiring proof of vaccination.

MOst the Caribbean countries ( each one is slightly different and THAT is more of an issue IMHO) are requiring a neg PCR test within 5 days prior to arrival.  SOme of them are saying that requirement is being waved if you have been vaccinated.  This is an evolving situation, but as of right now, NONE of them are requiring just a vaccine for entry.  It's just one pathway (albeit an easier one)

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, bafinegan said:

MOst the Caribbean countries ( each one is slightly different and THAT is more of an issue IMHO) are requiring a neg PCR test within 5 days prior to arrival.  SOme of them are saying that requirement is being waved if you have been vaccinated.  This is an evolving situation, but as of right now, NONE of them are requiring just a vaccine for entry.  It's just one pathway (albeit an easier one)

Can't PCR tests result in false positives? Are they a test that can still show positive long after you have recovered and no longer shedding virus?

 

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/s0814-updated-isolation-guidance.html#:~:text=On August 3%2C 2020,be infectious to others.

 

 

[Host Jazzbeau]

4 hours ago, bafinegan said:

MOst the Caribbean countries ( each one is slightly different and THAT is more of an issue IMHO) are requiring a neg PCR test within 5 days prior to arrival.  SOme of them are saying that requirement is being waved if you have been vaccinated.  This is an evolving situation, but as of right now, NONE of them are requiring just a vaccine for entry.  It's just one pathway (albeit an easier one)

So the cruise ships will have labs onboard to perform these tests on a rolling basis, to keep the results up to date for each new port?  You'd rather do that than get the vaccine?  [My nose still hurts from the last Covid test; I got over Moderna #2 in 48 hours.]

[Cafedumonde]

8 hours ago, volfan22701 said:

state governments will not be allowed to tell private business whether they can or can't require vaccinations. courts will never accept that from the states. private business can make the rules for their business to protect themselves and their customers as they see fit.

Lol.  Unfortunately government bosses private business around all the time.  That’s what they specialize in.  Have you been alive the last year  or did you rip van wrinkle it?

[BlerkOne]

22 minutes ago, Cafedumonde said:

Lol.  Unfortunately government bosses private business around all the time.  That’s what they specialize in.  Have you been alive the last year  or did you rip van wrinkle it?

I think it is a two way street with their sponsors.

[Stallion]

1 hour ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

So the cruise ships will have labs onboard to perform these tests on a rolling basis, to keep the results up to date for each new port?  You'd rather do that than get the vaccine?  [My nose still hurts from the last Covid test; I got over Moderna #2 in 48 hours.]

Damn right-the nose swab is 10 times worse than the vaccine shot. Maybe my experience is different but ve had worse mosquito bites

Edited April 23, 2021 by Stallion

[bdever]

12 hours ago, cruisingguy007 said:

Could be a great opportunity for California to expand cruising markets beyond Mexico and further down the west coast of the Americas. The money is in the provisioning, port operations, parking, local hotel stays etc and it's a nice chunk of change that could be courted with lower port fees and working with the lines to build facilities. It's a shame that Representative Matsui is so hostile to the cruise industry. There is a lot of value there that could be put to work in this state and we have a very large market. Hopefully Newsome can rein her in and capitalize on this opportunity but I ain't holding my breath. Could be a great opportunity for other states as well.     

This though - California is encouraging private business to require record of vaccination although not required at the state level. This is a wonderful opportunity for cruise lines to sail out of California if the CDC or the cruise lines end up requiring proof of vaccination. ❤️
 

https://www.latimes.com/science/newsletter/2021-04-19/vaccine-passports-california-coronavirus-today

[BoozinCroozin]

Put it this way, if the CDC says cruises can commence on July 4th with the caveat that those 16+ are vaccinated and those under 16 submit to covid testing, DeSantis would change his tone in the blink of an eye. The bigger issue is that July 4 is less than 90 days out and unlikely the cruise lines could get their current offerings rolling by then at this point. Its possible, but unlikely. 

[volfan22701]

8 hours ago, Cafedumonde said:

Lol.  Unfortunately government bosses private business around all the time.  That’s what they specialize in.  Have you been alive the last year  or did you rip van wrinkle it?

the state can't tell Carnival what their requirements to board the ships are. if Carnival says you need to be vaccinated then they can keep you off the ship if you are not.

Edited April 23, 2021 by volfan22701

[Joebucks]

15 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Odd that people who so oppose government control think it is okay for government to control how private companies can run their businesses. Especially businesses that don't receive government dollars.

 

Somewhat of a fair argument. Still not completely accurate though.

 

The conservatives you hint of, by and large do not call for the complete removal of government intervention. The forced vaccination is exactly the kind of things conservatives don't want and we aren't here to debate technicalities on who is enforcing it. Why people usually default to "government control" is because that is traditionally where these policies come from. These days, that influence seems to translate to "private businesses" that have become awfully political. We aren't fooled.

 

This is exactly the type of government intervention Conservatives look for. That is why they voted in DeSantis and love the work he is doing. 

[Homosassa]

20 hours ago, jedi bobs said:

Becuse of the new proposed law banniing any busness including cruise lines from requiring proof of vacinaton or reciving a $5000 fine per person per violation,

Still waiting for the citation for this "proposed" law statement.

Nothing is available about it here in Florida.

[Honolulu Blue]

5 hours ago, BoozinCroozin said:

Put it this way, if the CDC says cruises can commence on July 4th with the caveat that those 16+ are vaccinated and those under 16 submit to covid testing, DeSantis would change his tone in the blink of an eye. 

I HOPE it's true.  I'd hate to see Florida win the battle but lose the war.

 

NCL is in a particular box because they've required vaccines of ALL passengers on ALL their ships until at least October 31.  If Florida opens for cruising before then, NCL would have to:

1. Not require the vaccine on cruises out of Florida,
2. Ask passengers if they've had the vaccine, but not actually check for it,
3. Check and basically dare the state to take action, or
4. Pull out of Florida entirely until the situation resolves itself somehow.

 

[Honolulu Blue]

47 minutes ago, Homosassa said:

Still waiting for the citation for this "proposed" law statement.

Nothing is available about it here in Florida.

 

Found it!  Here's an article explaining what's up:  https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/politics/fl-ne-nsf-covid-vaccine-passport-ban-20210419-d6npktv5hbd4tiykdly53qi6zm-story.html

 

And the legislation itself:  https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2021/7047 .  See pages 33 and 34.

[crewsweeper]

This Florida law was introduced in only the House.  Not sure if it's even on the calendar for the full House.  And no companion bill in the Senate,  Focus in Legislature is on budget which must be approved by next Saturday.  So, it may die in the House, like lots of other bills.

[BlerkOne]

4 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

Somewhat of a fair argument. Still not completely accurate though.

 

The conservatives you hint of, by and large do not call for the complete removal of government intervention. The forced vaccination is exactly the kind of things conservatives don't want and we aren't here to debate technicalities on who is enforcing it. Why people usually default to "government control" is because that is traditionally where these policies come from. These days, that influence seems to translate to "private businesses" that have become awfully political. We aren't fooled.

 

This is exactly the type of government intervention Conservatives look for. That is why they voted in DeSantis and love the work he is doing. 

Would you agree that with freedom comes responsibility? There are a number of ways to help mitigate the virus - e.g.vaccines,  masks, social distancing, etc. It is everyone's responsibility to reduce the spread of the virus with a best effort, not disdain. It seems the conservatives say they will have no part of any of it. That won't get the job done, and sure seems like shirking responsibility. Freedom without responsibility is adolescence. Adults need to take responsibility.

 

To think politicians, any of them, don't listen to their sponsors at least as much as to their constituents is naive.

[crewsweeper]

18 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Can't PCR tests result in false positives? Are they a test that can still show positive long after you have recovered and no longer shedding virus?

 

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/s0814-updated-isolation-guidance.html#:~:text=On August 3%2C 2020,be infectious to others.

 

 

Yes.  This is one reason there has been  asymptomatic positive test results.  They weren't originally designed to pick up only COVID but many other particles that could also produce positive result but aren't COVID related.  At the time, the rush to test was greatly needed and little was known about the full range of particles in COVID.

Unfortunately, as wheels of bureaucracy turn slow, little has been done to improve these tests.

[fuddrules]

21 hours ago, musbeus said:

 

 

Here are just a few that require vaccinations to enter:

• Nepal

 

 

Dang, there goes my cruise to Kathmandu.

[Joebucks]

44 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Would you agree that with freedom comes responsibility? There are a number of ways to help mitigate the virus - e.g.vaccines,  masks, social distancing, etc. It is everyone's responsibility to reduce the spread of the virus with a best effort, not disdain. It seems the conservatives say they will have no part of any of it. That won't get the job done, and sure seems like shirking responsibility. Freedom without responsibility is adolescence. Adults need to take responsibility.

 

To think politicians, any of them, don't listen to their sponsors at least as much as to their constituents is naive.

 

Funny that the left finally found its rallying cry for responsibility. Responsibility isn't taking care of your personal health through diet, vitamins, exercise, and moderation. Responsibility is wearing a cloth on your face and getting infinite vaccine shots because of a fraction of a percent of society who disregard their own health. Especially when that same vaccine is perfectly available to "protect" those people who are at risk. 

 

You aren't the first person to call for sweeping regulation in the name of "safety", adding in emotions and moral superiority statements, and you won't be the last. It's the oldest debate in the game. 

[BlerkOne]

4 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

 

Funny that the left finally found its rallying cry for responsibility. Responsibility isn't taking care of your personal health through diet, vitamins, exercise, and moderation. Responsibility is wearing a cloth on your face and getting infinite vaccine shots because of a fraction of a percent of society who disregard their own health. Especially when that same vaccine is perfectly available to "protect" those people who are at risk. 

 

You aren't the first person to call for sweeping regulation in the name of "safety", adding in emotions and moral superiority statements, and you won't be the last. It's the oldest debate in the game. 

and the right responds with the typical My Way or the Highway. Death before Compromise. We get it.

[bafinegan]

16 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

So the cruise ships will have labs onboard to perform these tests on a rolling basis, to keep the results up to date for each new port?  You'd rather do that than get the vaccine?  [My nose still hurts from the last Covid test; I got over Moderna #2 in 48 hours.]

Oh I have gotten vaccinated.  Just responding to the post that stated Caribbean ports are requiring visitors be vaccinated.  SOme ports of call are instituting different entry requirements for the vaccinated vs the un-vaccinated.  Actually, Viking ocean ( was looking rally hard at their Bermuda july cruise)  will have a saliva PCR test onboard.  But the cruise line is requiring passengers be vaccinated, not Bermuda.

[naxer]

20 hours ago, Joebucks said:

This is exactly the type of government intervention Conservatives look for. That is why they voted in DeSantis and love the work he is doing. 

When it comes to public accommodation, which is always tricky, you say It is crossing the line for a private business to take medical advice, do what it can to diminish the spread of a pandemic, remain in business, and lessen the chance that the plans of 100s of thousands of its customers and the livelihood of tens of thousands of its employees is affected detrimentally.  It's funny how we view things through such different lenses, because I think this is a clear example of when a private business should be able to make its own decisions.