Norwegian Cruise Line sues Florida surgeon general over ‘vaccine-passport’ ban

[mrlevin]

Just now, chengkp75 said:

And the Florida laws prevents NCL from requiring a vaccine for the crew.  And, since the "non-covid vaccinated" are not a protected class, even in Florida, any business can deny service to a non-vaccinated person.

This issue is not whether to serve an unvaccinated person, it is whether you can ask a vaccinated person to provide proof.  

[roger001]

It’s all ugly.  And cruise line stocks are down again today. Chapter 11 is not unlikely.  My family Doc today said he is once again worried where the virus issue is headed. It’s not just the healthiness of the ships, but the ports that are going to permit freedom visits. The whole thing still sucks.  My opinion….who wants a normal cruise badly.  23 NCLs so far. 

[chengkp75]

9 minutes ago, mrlevin said:

This issue is not whether to serve an unvaccinated person, it is whether you can ask a vaccinated person to provide proof.  

And, just like a business can ask a customer to prove they are of age, they can ask for proof of vaccination.  If that business chooses to limit their customer base by only allowing customers who can prove they have been vaccinated, then they are free to do so.

[firefly333]

3 hours ago, Seany527 said:

Do you know how Celebrity is determining that at most 5% will be unvaccinated for each sailing? 
I know they are calling people but anyone could say something on the phone and have a different story when they arrive at the port. 
 

Say the ship is sailing with 100 people total and 10 are unvaccinated when they arrive at port. What is Celebrity’s plan? Will they grab 100 more vaccinated people from the pier and put them on the cruise, so the unvaccinated rate drops from 10% to 5%? 
 

I’m seriously wondering how they plan on monitoring this. I don’t really have a problem with the number of unvaccinated people, I’m more so just curious from a logistic standpoint. 

I'm on carnival vista and carnival breeze and a one sentence health protocol popped up, are you vaccinated,  yes, click done. So they do have some idea. And my reply was voluntary.

 

I think think is kinda stupid of ncl to wait this long to file when their competition is already sailing out of florida. I will have my card to board .. voluntarily of course. My choice to cruise.

 

6 months ago it might have made sense though it wouldnt have changed florida. Law suits take too long to come to trial. This is just a publicity stunt. Just stirs up bad blood between florida and ncl. I cant think of one good reason other than wasting money to file now.

 

 

[firefly333]

13 minutes ago, roger001 said:

It’s all ugly.  And cruise line stocks are down again today. Chapter 11 is not unlikely.  My family Doc today said he is once again worried where the virus issue is headed. It’s not just the healthiness of the ships, but the ports that are going to permit freedom visits. The whole thing still sucks.  My opinion….who wants a normal cruise badly.  23 NCLs so far. 

I've been watching cruise stocks myself. This hurts ncl share price. Let's be honest.

 

I did dip into rcl 100 shares I bought back last Thursday at 77 1/2, so far a decent entry, but ccl and ncl stock both went lower than lows from last thursday. I've been watching them trade all day today, very weak. Throwing money into this suit .. stupid unless ncl is desperate. Get cruising resuming and then worry. 

[Sam Ting]

10 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

And, just like a business can ask a customer to prove they are of age, they can ask for proof of vaccination.  If that business chooses to limit their customer base by only allowing customers who can prove they have been vaccinated, then they are free to do so.

Apparently not in Florida.  

[coaster]

11 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

I've been watching cruise stocks myself. This hurts ncl share price. Let's be honest.

 

I did dip into rcl 100 shares I bought back last Thursday at 77 1/2, so far a decent entry, but ccl and ncl stock both went lower than lows from last thursday. I've been watching them trade all day today, very weak. Throwing money into this suit .. stupid unless ncl is desperate. Get cruising resuming and then worry. 

I think this is just desperation on NCL's part. To go rogue against Florida when they went against CDC restrictions to support all cruise lines is a slap in the face. Shame on NCL.

Edited July 13, 2021 by coaster

[Nymich]

I have NCL stock and I have two of their cruises booked.   I think I have some decisions to make.  Lol

[aubreyc1988]

1 minute ago, coaster said:

I think this is just desperation on NCL's part. To go rogue against Florida when they went against CDC restrictions to support all cruise lines is a slap in the face. Shame on NCL.

Actually, it's quite ironic. Florida suing the CDC for overreaching on the CDC restrictions on cruiselines, then Florida does the same thing to cruiselines, overreaches by telling them they can't ask for proof for vaccination. 

[aubreyc1988]

34 minutes ago, roger001 said:

It’s all ugly.  And cruise line stocks are down again today. Chapter 11 is not unlikely.  My family Doc today said he is once again worried where the virus issue is headed. It’s not just the healthiness of the ships, but the ports that are going to permit freedom visits. The whole thing still sucks.  My opinion….who wants a normal cruise badly.  23 NCLs so far. 

 

I think the 100% vaccination stance NCL is taking is smart. There is still uncertainty regarding Covid and the variants, especially when visiting foreign ports of call. Plus let's be real, no one wants to wear a mask on a cruise or socially distance and such. My opinion: the best way for a "normal", healthy and safe cruise for 2021 is 100% vaccination and I am glad NCL has stuck to their guns about their policies (For the time being) 

[mrlevin]

26 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

And, just like a business can ask a customer to prove they are of age, they can ask for proof of vaccination.  If that business chooses to limit their customer base by only allowing customers who can prove they have been vaccinated, then they are free to do so.

When there is a federal or state law (e.g., purchase of alcohol or tobacco) they can ask your age in accordance with that law.  Can you imagine going into 7-11 to buy ice cream and them asking you your age?  Let's be serious.

Edited July 13, 2021 by mrlevin

[coaster]

8 minutes ago, aubreyc1988 said:

Actually, it's quite ironic. Florida suing the CDC for overreaching on the CDC restrictions on cruiselines, then Florida does the same thing to cruiselines, overreaches by telling them they can't ask for proof for vaccination. 

Other lines have not called out the state of Florida like NCL-FDR. The best approach is to play good with the ports you sail out of and not sue them. Bad business decision on NCL's part to go rogue. Will just hurt them now and in the future.

Edited July 14, 2021 by coaster

[aubreyc1988]

1 minute ago, coaster said:

Other lines have not called out the state of Florida like NCL. The best approach is to play good with the ports you sail out of and not sue them. Bad business decision on NCL's part to go rogue. Will just hurt them now and in the future.

 

I'm sure NCL has much better lawyers who are giving them advice compared to us so I'll just sit and wait and see. I'm not going to sail out of Florida for a while anyhow so no skin off my back. 

[chengkp75]

7 minutes ago, mrlevin said:

 Can you imagine going into 7-11 to buy ice cream and them asking you your age?

While it may not make good business sense, would it be illegal to do so?  Nope.

[mrlevin]

deleted - I said something very foolish (sitting in a hotel that asked for id when I checked in a couple of hours ago).  😁

Edited July 14, 2021 by mrlevin

[aubreyc1988]

1 minute ago, mrlevin said:

Yes, in the USofA it would be illegal.  Random requests for ID are not allowed.  

Pretty sure I get random requests for ID all the time lol 

[coaster]

I applaud NCL for going to 100 percent vaccinated. I wish Royal did the same. Problem is NCL knew about the Florida restrictions before they put their policy in place. Now they want to sue the State of Florida after they made the decision to implement the 100 percent policy. All the cruise lines abide by the same rules out of Florida, but NCL is the only one that feels the need to sue. Looks so desperate to me.

Edited July 14, 2021 by coaster

[ChiefMateJRK]

It's pretty clear what's going on here.  Somebody "forgot" to make a contribution to a campaign fund....

[donaldsc]

3 hours ago, coaster said:

Bad move on NCL's part. DeSantis already stated he is 'ok' with NCL moving out of Florida. This will just make things be more heated and ugly between the two.

 

I don't know why all the cruise lines just don't move their ships out of Florida.  After all, there are lots of other cities who would be glad to have them.  I realize that there might be infrastructure issues in the other cities but that can be worked out.  

 

One other thing.  There are lots of people including me who will not sail on a ship that isn't 100% vaccinated and who are not allowing unvaccinated children on board.  The line will lose more passengers who won't sail on them than they will gain from the unvaccinated passengers so allowing unvaccinated passengers on board will be a net economic loss to the line.

 

One final thing.  When a cruise ends up with a spread of covid on board and you can be sure that it will occur, if the line was going 100% vaccinated,  they can reasonably say that they did their best.  If they were one of the lines that was allowing unvaccinated people on board, the whole cruise industry will be affected.  

 

DON

[deliver42]

Go NCL. The suit throws the same reasoning back in Florida's face that Florida is using in their suit against the CDC. Over stepping their bounds and holding back the industry.

[coaster]

NCL is free to move their ships out of Florida like DeSantis has said in the past. Fuel costs for NCL will rise and ports outside Florida do not have the infrastructure to handle a ship with 4,000 to 5,000 passengers boarding. Florida has the upper hand in this fight. NCL's new terminal in Miami can just sit being abandoned until another cruise line buys it.

Edited July 14, 2021 by coaster

[Nymich]

20 minutes ago, donaldsc said:

 

I don't know why all the cruise lines just don't move their ships out of Florida.  After all, there are lots of other cities who would be glad to have them.  I realize that there might be infrastructure issues in the other cities but that can be worked out.  

 

 

Too much has been invested in the Florida major ports with the terminals.  Florida has the better year round weather especially for Caribbean cruises.  The lines are branching out where they can to Texas and others but right now no area is even close to Florida and what they can handle.

 

 

[BabsinTX]

3 hours ago, oteixeira said:

Also, if CDC is over reaching enough that Florida would sue, I think Florida is just as much over reaching in business practices by restricting what they can ask for.  Tit for tat, you win one, you lose one Florida.

I grew up seeing signs in businesses saying "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service".  Seems likes the same thing to me.

[aubreyc1988]

2 minutes ago, coaster said:

NCL is free to move their ships out of Florida like DeSantis has said in the past. Fuel costs for NCL will rise and ports outside Florida do not have the infrastructure to handle a ship with 4,000 to 5,000 passengers boarding. Florida has the upper hand in this fight.

technically, it's up to courts, not Florida. As I have said before, I'm sure the lawyers NCL has on retainer has told NCL this has SOME sort of a chance of passing in court. 🤷‍♀️

[firefly333]

1 hour ago, aubreyc1988 said:

Actually, it's quite ironic. Florida suing the CDC for overreaching on the CDC restrictions on cruiselines, then Florida does the same thing to cruiselines, overreaches by telling them they can't ask for proof for vaccination. 

Florida doesnt actually say to the cruiselines they cant ask. There seems to be a compromise reached by rcl and ccl that it has to be given voluntarily.  Of course if you dont volunteer it, it's also your choice not to cruise. Only ncl has a issue with this. 

 

If carnival and rcl agreed, it wouldnt be ncl going it alone. The other cruiselines would be part and they are not ... ignoring the fact this was filed ridiculously late. 

 

The only difference right now is the 95% the cdc set. If above no masks, if below masks require. The others have set sail as fast as they can hire crew. Crew isnt that easy to hire, get vaccinated and ready, this just sets ncl back in the game further.