Norwegian Cruise Line sues Florida surgeon general over ‘vaccine-passport’ ban

[firefly333]

2 minutes ago, aubreyc1988 said:

technically, it's up to courts, not Florida. As I have said before, I'm sure the lawyers NCL has on retainer has told NCL this has SOME sort of a chance of passing in court. 🤷‍♀️

.... which year do they expect to prevail and restart?

[aubreyc1988]

2 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

Florida doesnt actually say to the cruiselines they cant ask. There seems to be a compromise reached by rcl and ccl that it has to be given voluntarily.  Of course if you dont volunteer it, it's also your choice not to cruise. Only ncl has a issue with this. 

 

If carnival and rcl agreed, it wouldnt be ncl going it alone. The other cruiselines would be part and they are not ... ignoring the fact this was filed ridiculously late. 

 

The only difference right now is the 95% the cdc set. If above no masks, if below masks require. The others have set sail as fast as they can hire crew. Crew isnt that easy to hire, get vaccinated and ready, this just sets ncl back in the game further.

IMHO, RCI kinda of screwed NCL and left their "Not going to compete on health and safety" whenever they said they weren't going to do the 100% vaccination route the CDC put in their CSO. And I am not super up to date on how Carnival and RCI are getting past the Florida vaccine thing, but it is clear NCL doesn't want to go that route for reasons unknown to us, the cruisers. I am sure there ARE reasons though. 

[BermudaBound2014]

26 minutes ago, aubreyc1988 said:

technically, it's up to courts, not Florida. As I have said before, I'm sure the lawyers NCL has on retainer has told NCL this has SOME sort of a chance of passing in court. 🤷‍♀️

What if “passing in court” isn’t the end game 😉 

 

Follow the money 

[Laszlo]

Nice to see NCL has a set!

[Oceansaway17]

2 hours ago, coaster said:

NCL needs to move on and stop playing the victim narrative and suing. Other lines are sailing fine from Florida. FDR is just a bully.

 

 

I agree.  The other lines have tried to accommodate children sailing because it is summer time and people take vacations.  All ships are dealing with protocols the best way they can.  95% is good enough for me.  Making unvaxxed take tests and spend money might change their mind but at least there is a way for them to sail even though it will cost more.

 

Let us not forget, anyone can get on an airplane, train or bus.  NCL is going to bleed even more money  and I have to wonder how they will survive if they do not use FLA ports.  And have they burned their bridges.

For then stance they are taking, they might as well hang up a sign saying NO KIDS ALLOWED for now - sorry we want to be 100%.    that is crap.  Asking parents to leave their kids at home during prime summer sailing.  I understand why Disney is not sailing because kids is a large part of their model.  They have the whole corporation to help their 4 ships wait it out.  But then again in UK DCL Magic is doing UK only trips with kids.   Guess some NCL shareholders are grumbling to themselves.

Will be interesting to watch NCL STOCK.....

 

 

[Sthrngary]

5 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

There goes our September cruise out of Miami. I can just see NCL cancelling cruises as they fight this out in court. Good news is our final payment isn't due till next week. 😃I support NCL, too, but this doesn't bode well for upcoming sailings. 😟

Yes sir, mine is in November.  Selfishly, that was my first thought.  I do support NCL also.

[ChiefMateJRK]

1 hour ago, firefly333 said:

The only difference right now is the 95% the cdc set. If above no masks, if below masks require. 

Are you sure that's what the CDC requires?

[hladygirl]

If you don’t want to get vaccinated then do not cruise. Your choice! Give me a break! NCL has every right to keep their passengers and staff safe. I will not cruise on a ship that is not completely vaccinated. I work in healthcare and have watched many die. Unvaccinated people should be barred from cruises, bars, hotels, casinos etc. their choice to not vaccinate and their choice to have restrictions. Unfortunately most of the unvaccinated are not following the recommendation to wear a mask and now we have both vaccinated and unvaccinated  developing covid , the number are going up again and more people will die. But those that think this is a hoax will continue to spread the virus and prevent the solution to end it. Good luck you that choose not to be a part of the solution.

[Named-Tawny]

3 hours ago, coaster said:

Other lines have not called out the state of Florida like NCL-FDR. The best approach is to play good with the ports you sail out of and not sue them. Bad business decision on NCL's part to go rogue. Will just hurt them now and in the future.

Nah, standing up for the health and safety of your passengers is a good long term business decision.

And they're not suing the ports, they're suing the surgeon general.  Last I checked, they were sailing out of Miami, not Scott Rivkees.

[Cafedumonde]

Everything is personal for del rio.  He is so combative.  He has effectively run NCL into the ground.  Ncl was already the least kid friendly line we have sailed.  This vaccine stance makes it official— they never liked having to deal with kids.  Well, karma.  They are the cruise line most likely to declare bankruptcy IMO.  Bad move with the lawsuit, del rio, and suing the surgeon general?  Doesn’t even make sense.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Cafedumonde

[dswallow]

15 minutes ago, Cafedumonde said:

Everything is personal for del rio.  He is so combative.  He has effectively run NCL into the ground.  They are the cruise line most likely to declare bankruptcy IMO.  Bad move with the lawsuit, del rio, and suing the surgeon general?  Doesn’t even make sense.

 

The Florida Department of Health is headed by the State Surgeon General, Scott A. Rivkees, M.D., and Florida Statute § 381.00316(4) specifies it is the Florida Department of Health that is responsible for imposing the fine of up to $5,000 in accordance with Florida Statute § 381.00316. So it is indeed the appropriate entity to sue in this situation.

What doesn't make sense is most every part of what you're complaining about. NCL has decided that it is proper and appropriate to resume sailing with a requirement of vaccination. Florida law prohibits that. So they sue to overturn that particular law so that they can sail with fully vaccinated passengers.

It doesn't matter if other cruise lines have decided to find ways to sail, typically with fewer than 100% vaccinated passengers. NCL has decided they do not want to place their passengers at risk because Florida law is forcing them to ignore the public health.

In fact, other cruise lines are requiring vaccination in every sailing from other ports, outside of Florida. It would seem likely those same cruise lines would prefer to have that policy on sailing from within Florida. Perhaps it is worth questioning why they are not following this path that NCL has chosen. It may, for example, be in part because the cruise lines are currently benefiting from Florida providing vaccination doses, and if they were to take an adversarial position, perhaps they feel it would put that at risk. Just one thought about motivations.

 

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by dswallow

[Cafedumonde]

8 minutes ago, dswallow said:

 

The Florida Department of Health is headed by the State Surgeon General, Scott A. Rivkees, M.D., and Florida Statute § 381.00316(4) specifies it is the Florida Department of Health that is responsible for imposing the fine of up to $5,000 in accordance with Florida Statute § 381.00316. So it is indeed the appropriate entity to sue in this situation.

What doesn't make sense is most every part of what you're complaining about. NCL has decided that it is proper and appropriate to resume sailing with a requirement of vaccination. Florida law prohibits that. So they sue to overturn that particular law so that they can sail with fully vaccinated passengers.

It doesn't matter if other cruise lines have decided to find ways to sail, typically with fewer than 100% vaccinated passengers. NCL has decided they do not want to place their passengers at risk because Florida law is forcing them to ignore the public health.

In fact, other cruise lines are requiring vaccination in every sailing from other ports, outside of Florida. It would seem likely those same cruise lines would prefer to have that policy on sailing from within Florida. Perhaps it is worth questioning why they are not following this path that NCL has chosen. It may, for example, be in part because the cruise lines are currently benefiting from Florida providing vaccination doses, and if they were to take an adversarial position, perhaps they feel it would put that at risk. Just one thought about motivations.

 

 

That’s like suing the dmv because you don’t feel like you should have to get a driver’s license.  Makes no sense for NCL to sue the surgeon general.  

[dswallow]

4 minutes ago, Cafedumonde said:

That’s like suing the dmv because you don’t feel like you should have to get a driver’s license.  Makes no sense for NCL to sue the surgeon general.  

 

Florida sued Xavier Becerra, the Secretary of Health and Human Services, and Rochelle Walensky, the Director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. In their official capacity of the respective agencies. Not the HHS, and not the CDC.

 

Same with suing the Florida State Surgeon General, in his official capacity as Director of the Florida Department of Health, the agency responsible for enforcing the law the suit is seeking to invalidate.

 

That's how it's done.

[BirdTravels]

7 hours ago, Joebucks said:

Second, other industries aren't requiring it.

Fortunately you are wrong here. There are many companies that require you to be vaccinated now. I can not enter my facility without proof of vaccination. And I, for one, am very happy for that. And I, for one, am happy to be cruising on a 100% vaccinated cruise next month on NCL. 

[aubreyc1988]

2 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

Fortunately you are wrong here. There are many companies that require you to be vaccinated now. I can not enter my facility without proof of vaccination. And I, for one, am very happy for that. And I, for one, am happy to be cruising on a 100% vaccinated cruise next month on NCL. 

I look forward to reading your review, as I am on the sailing on the 4th. 

 

I do wonder if this fails in court what happens to the Fllorida sailing. Personally, I'd love for NCL to stick to their guns, it would be a refreshing change of pace to see a company take a stance and follow through on it. I'll fly elsewhere to sail Norwegian and sip my raspberry mojitos while watching the sunset! 

[aubreyc1988]

42 minutes ago, dswallow said:

 

The Florida Department of Health is headed by the State Surgeon General, Scott A. Rivkees, M.D., and Florida Statute § 381.00316(4) specifies it is the Florida Department of Health that is responsible for imposing the fine of up to $5,000 in accordance with Florida Statute § 381.00316. So it is indeed the appropriate entity to sue in this situation.

What doesn't make sense is most every part of what you're complaining about. NCL has decided that it is proper and appropriate to resume sailing with a requirement of vaccination. Florida law prohibits that. So they sue to overturn that particular law so that they can sail with fully vaccinated passengers.

It doesn't matter if other cruise lines have decided to find ways to sail, typically with fewer than 100% vaccinated passengers. NCL has decided they do not want to place their passengers at risk because Florida law is forcing them to ignore the public health.

In fact, other cruise lines are requiring vaccination in every sailing from other ports, outside of Florida. It would seem likely those same cruise lines would prefer to have that policy on sailing from within Florida. Perhaps it is worth questioning why they are not following this path that NCL has chosen. It may, for example, be in part because the cruise lines are currently benefiting from Florida providing vaccination doses, and if they were to take an adversarial position, perhaps they feel it would put that at risk. Just one thought about motivations.

 

 

Yep! There are many factors at play and most the general public doesn't know about (yet) 

 

People are quick to say "Del Rio is dumb or going to drive the company into bankruptcy" but he isn't the ONLY person at NCLH. I assume he's gotten advice from experts. 

[HappyInVan]

3 hours ago, firefly333 said:

.... which year do they expect to prevail and restart?

 

Its called an 'injunction'. 🙄

[ChiefMateJRK]

34 minutes ago, dswallow said:

 

Florida sued Xavier Becerra, the Secretary of Health and Human Services, and Rochelle Walensky, the Director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. In their official capacity of the respective agencies. Not the HHS, and not the CDC.

 

Same with suing the Florida State Surgeon General, in his official capacity as Director of the Florida Department of Health, the agency responsible for enforcing the law the suit is seeking to invalidate.

 

That's how it's done.

@dswallow  You have made excellent points.  Unfortunately, you appear to have an audience (of one) that will not or can not take the time to understand.  I will encourage you to stop wasting your time and join the rest of us in just feeling good about future NCL cruises with 100% vaccinated.  Fortunately, I have no interest in sailing out of FL until Spring 2023.  😎 

[Old & Retired]

5 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

And, just like a business can ask a customer to prove they are of age, they can ask for proof of vaccination.  If that business chooses to limit their customer base by only allowing customers who can prove they have been vaccinated, then they are free to do so.

Not in Florida.  It's against the law thank God.

[BirdTravels]

3 hours ago, aubreyc1988 said:

IMHO, RCI kinda of screwed NCL and left their "Not going to compete on health and safety" whenever they said they weren't going to do the 100% vaccination route the CDC put in their CSO. And I am not super up to date on how Carnival and RCI are getting past the Florida vaccine thing, but it is clear NCL doesn't want to go that route for reasons unknown to us, the cruisers. I am sure there ARE reasons though. 

RCL is allowing anyone to cruise. If you are unvaccinated, you have to pay for multiple COVID tests while onboard and you are restricted from entering vaccinated-only venues. You are required to take only RCL shore excursions. And everyone on the ship has to wear masks because there are unvaccinated people onboard.

 

It is very, very clear to cruisers the difference from having to wear a mask anytime you are not eating and not wearing a mask.

 

It is very, very clear to cruisers the impacts of having to socially distance on a ship versus not socially distancing on a ship. 

 

Wanna go dancing on a RCL cruise, you have to stay at least 6' away from others (in the photo, you have to stay in your "dot" else the "dot police" will escort you out of the venue). The couple in the middle that started dancing outside a dot were quickly moved to a dot. 

 

Wanna have to social distance in a theater, there are two empty seats in this section below, the rest of the seats with the white covers are blocked to maintain social distancing (the first two rows are blocked to keep the dirty passengers away from the performers). And if you are mom, dad, and a kid, you can't sit together, else the COVID police will move you to an unblocked seat. 

 

The rules are the same in the main theater. Front two rows blocked. Every other row blocked off. Every two seats blocked off. Gotta get there early because that leaves less than 20% of the seats in the theater usable. 

 

And on the private island beach, don't even thing about trying to move loungers,,, gotta keep that 6'+ separation in the sand, cuz there are unvaccinated people around. At least there are groups of 4 loungers. Impact? You may not find anywhere to sit since most of the beach loungers and umbrellas are locked up and not available for use. 

 

We don't wanna have to do that, so we will sail on a 100% vaccinated NCL cruise next. 

[donaldsc]

1 minute ago, Old & Retired said:

Not in Florida.  It's against the law thank God.

 

Maybe Walmart, Costco and the big food stores in Florida will also sue Florida.

 

DON

[aubreyc1988]

Just now, BirdTravels said:

RCL is allowing anyone to cruise. If you are unvaccinated, you have to pay for multiple COVID tests while onboard and you are restricted from entering vaccinated-only venues. You are required to take only RCL shore excursions. And everyone on the ship has to wear masks because there are unvaccinated people onboard.

 

It is very, very clear to cruisers the difference from having to wear a mask anytime you are not eating and not wearing a mask.

 

It is very, very clear to cruisers the impacts of having to socially distance on a ship versus not socially distancing on a ship. 

 

Wanna go dancing on a RCL cruise, you have to stay at least 6' away from others (in the photo, you have to stay in your "dot" else the "dot police" will escort you out of the venue). The couple in the middle that started dancing outside a dot were quickly moved to a dot. 

 

Wanna have to social distance in a theater, there are two empty seats in this section below, the rest of the seats with the white covers are blocked to maintain social distancing (the first two rows are blocked to keep the dirty passengers away from the performers). And if you are mom, dad, and a kid, you can't sit together, else the COVID police will move you to an unblocked seat. 

 

The rules are the same in the main theater. Front two rows blocked. Every other row blocked off. Every two seats blocked off. Gotta get there early because that leaves less than 20% of the seats in the theater usable. 

 

And on the private island beach, don't even thing about trying to move loungers,,, gotta keep that 6'+ separation in the sand, cuz there are unvaccinated people around. At least there are groups of 4 loungers. Impact? You may not find anywhere to sit since most of the beach loungers and umbrellas are locked up and not available for use. 

 

We don't wanna have to do that, so we will sail on a 100% vaccinated NCL cruise next. 

no offense to royal but screw all that!!!! 

[BirdTravels]

1 minute ago, aubreyc1988 said:

no offense to royal but screw all that!!!! 

I totally agree. But the comment I was replying to said that Royal is doing a great job versus NCL holding out for 100% vaccinated cruise. Royal, with less than 95% vaccinated, has to follow the CDC rules for mask and distancing. And there are consequences which impact the cruise experience. 

[cruisingguy007]

7 minutes ago, aubreyc1988 said:

no offense to royal but screw all that!!!! 

 

I was thinking the same but in a much harsher and matter of fact tone. LOL.

[aubreyc1988]

1 minute ago, BirdTravels said:

I totally agree. But the comment I was replying to said that Royal is doing a great job versus NCL holding out for 100% vaccinated cruise. Royal, with less than 95% vaccinated, has to follow the CDC rules for mask and distancing. And there are consequences which impact the cruise experience. 

Yep. another reason I really don't wanna do all that is I'm vaccinated now, it's like a reward that I can go out in public and not wear a mask and go see shows and such.