Silversea Private Charter

[tbliss]

Hello everyone, My husband and I booked a number of back to back segments on Silver Moon a few months ago for a future trip in 2023 and we have just heard that there is a private charter hold on the segment that goes between Barcelona and Lisbon on May 30th 2023 which falls in the middle of our 55 day cruise. We were told by our TA that there is a hold and if and once it is officially booked that Silversea would contact anybody affected with offers to move to another sailing etc..  Has anyone ever had this happen and if so how did Silversea handle this?  Also does anyone ever kept their reservation on a sailing that has been chartered out for a private event if that is even possible?  We really don't want to have to bounce to different ships or do our own land trip until we can catch up with our ship on the next segment that is charter free as we love the idea of unpacking and living on board for awhile. Lastly does anyone know if travel insurance (which we have already bought for our 55 day trip) can be moved to another trip later that year (such as the Grand Voyage) without penalty?  Thank you so much for any advice that you can give.  

Happy sailing,

Teresa

[Observer]

I frequently do B2Bs, and I book well in advance.  I have at least two encounters with this kind of situation.  

 

The first was a false alarm.  Silversea put a hold on future bookings while negotiations were going on.  In the event, the charter did not come through, and the cruise proceeded as originally booked.

 

In the second case, a segment of six or seven days was cancelled.  I could not remain on the ship.  Fortunately, the embarkation and disembarkation ports for the charter were the same.  So I cooled my heels for a week in a nice hotel.  At my request, Silversea kept most of my luggage on the ship during the charter.  I lived out of a small roller suitcase for the week.  I would have preferred to continue uninterrupted on the cruise.  But the unexpected week ashore proved to be fun.  And Silversea made a variety of accommodations for me and I thought I was treated quite fairly. 

[Will Work for Tiramisu]

Our first cruise we booked on SS (2012) was cancelled, due to the entire ship being chartered to house a bunch of Saudi family in Monaco for the races.  It was a drag, as we had invited my wife's sisters.  Nonetheless, we rebooked and SS was very accommodating, and gave us a ship board credit in addition to full credit for original cruise.  This also happened in 2019 on Seabourn, and we ended up with a better cruise segment for the same price as the original.  It happens - I'm sure cruise lines are happy to get a big booking these days, to help them - shall we say - stay afloat!!  

[Host Jazzbeau]

56 minutes ago, Will Work for Tiramisu said:

Our first cruise we booked on SS (2012) was cancelled, due to the entire ship being chartered to house a bunch of Saudi family in Monaco for the races.  It was a drag, as we had invited my wife's sisters.  Nonetheless, we rebooked and SS was very accommodating, and gave us a ship board credit in addition to full credit for original cruise.  This also happened in 2019 on Seabourn, and we ended up with a better cruise segment for the same price as the original.  It happens - I'm sure cruise lines are happy to get a big booking these days, to help them - shall we say - stay afloat!!  

With margins being what they are, it is likely to happen even more for a while.  Even Bahamas Paradise Cruise Line, which is at the other end of the luxury scale from Silversea, was able to charter their ship for hurricane-disaster-crew-accommodation in New Orleans.

[SSCAF001]

On the upcoming Silver Moon cruise from FLL to Lima departing December 2, 2021, while the number of cabins available for sale was quite stable for a long time at approximately 130, suddenly during the last weekend of October that number fell to approximately 70 and that number remains stable since then. So 60 cabins (max 130 PAX) were potentially sold in just a couple of days and I suspect that it could be a huge group joining the cruise. I find it strange because it’s quite a long cruise for a charter (16 days) but maybe those people will disembark after a shorter period of time. Do you think my assumption is realistic?

[Mayflower1]

Good Morning tbliss - I too am affected by the same Possible Charter as you and found out about it by noticing the Cruise was ' Waitlisted ' over 2 months ago. My Agent has been attempting to get specific information from Silversea about The Charter and apparently it is only a 4 Day Charter and it is thought that the Charter will start & end in Barcelona ?. There is no information concerning when this will be firmed up and consequently we must just wait. I have been affected by such a situation a number of times and it makes Planning very difficult especially if the Charter is at the start of our intended Cruise as is the case this time. The Revised Itinerary is not being disclosed.

 

There is a long time to go i.e. May 2023 and I suspect it may be some time before matters clarify. Apart from the uncertainty my only comment will be that a Full Charter ( in which no other Guests will be on board ) is far better than a Partial Charter - we have experienced this on a couple of occasions and it is generally most unsatisfactory for a regular Guest, with Restaurants, Bars etc closed off at times and some of the Charter Guests are often very different to a normal Silversea Guest !!!

 

I hope this matter is settled before too long but should I hear any more information I will Post here and perhaps you will do likewise.

[les37b]

On 11/9/2021 at 6:30 AM, SSCAF001 said:

On the upcoming Silver Moon cruise from FLL to Lima departing December 2, 2021, while the number of cabins available for sale was quite stable for a long time at approximately 130, suddenly during the last weekend of October that number fell to approximately 70 and that number remains stable since then. So 60 cabins (max 130 PAX) were potentially sold in just a couple of days and I suspect that it could be a huge group joining the cruise. I find it strange because it’s quite a long cruise for a charter (16 days) but maybe those people will disembark after a shorter period of time. Do you think my assumption is realistic?

 

I'm on the second iteration of this starting on 3 Jan. My SS agent seems to think the loading for ours is nearly 400 - though his figures are based on availability and suspect a fair number of the booked rooms may be solo or "reserved for quarantine" rooms.

 

I suspect if there is a sudden large jump of guests, its an absolute certainty its a group booking or a ridiculously cheap sell off via a third party (like to agents in the travel industry - who do exist and give excellent mouth watering discounts.)

 

I'm guessing we will find out in due course! 

 

Will be finally sorting car parking, seat reservations and ESTA today and the reality a cruise I'd given up any hope of sailing on will now hopefully happen.

[SSCAF001]

8 minutes ago, les37b said:

 

I'm on the second iteration of this starting on 3 Jan. My SS agent seems to think the loading for ours is nearly 400 - though his figures are based on availability and suspect a fair number of the booked rooms may be solo or "reserved for quarantine" rooms.

 

I suspect if there is a sudden large jump of guests, its an absolute certainty its a group booking or a ridiculously cheap sell off via a third party (like to agents in the travel industry - who do exist and give excellent mouth watering discounts.)

 

I'm guessing we will find out in due course! 

 

Will be finally sorting car parking, seat reservations and ESTA today and the reality a cruise I'd given up any hope of sailing on will now hopefully happen.

Your cruise seems to be more loaded than mine (36 cabins available for sale on yours vs. 64 cabins on mine). According to my SS travel advisor, my cruise departing December 2 will have some high rank SS executives/employees on board for some days that could explain why the number of available cabins has suddenly decreased. He told me that the loading should be approximately 400 passengers.  

[les37b]

3 minutes ago, SSCAF001 said:

Your cruise seems to be more loaded than mine (36 cabins available for sale on yours vs. 64 cabins on mine). According to my SS travel advisor, my cruise departing December 2 will have some high rank SS executives/employees on board for some days that could explain why the number of available cabins has suddenly decreased. He told me that the loading should be approximately 400 passengers.  

 

Strange systems they have that they cant spit out how many fare paying passengers are sailing!

 

400 is quite a lot, though having sailed the Muse fully loaded, it still didn't feel crowded anywhere.

 

I wonder if everything will be fully open?

 

[SSCAF001]

Just now, les37b said:

 

Strange systems they have that they cant spit out how many fare paying passengers are sailing!

 

400 is quite a lot, though having sailed the Muse fully loaded, it still didn't feel crowded anywhere.

 

I wonder if everything will be fully open?

 

I have sailed the Muse end of 2019 between Bali and Sydney with 500 passengers and it was quite quiet! So even if there are 400 PAX, should be quite nice knowing that from what I have understood the SS executives/employees will not remain on board for the entire duration of the cruise. We shall see but even fully loaded, I know that SS ship never seems to be crowded! I will let you know as soon as I board the ship on December 2.

[les37b]

11 minutes ago, SSCAF001 said:

I have sailed the Muse end of 2019 between Bali and Sydney with 500 passengers and it was quite quiet! So even if there are 400 PAX, should be quite nice knowing that from what I have understood the SS executives/employees will not remain on board for the entire duration of the cruise. We shall see but even fully loaded, I know that SS ship never seems to be crowded! I will let you know as soon as I board the ship on December 2.

 

Yes I agree, 400 won't seem crowded.... I just meant the figure was quite high as in pretty good for SS the way things have gone.

 

I just had a look on the site. I noticed there was a Whisper sailing from 6 Jan from FLL to Lima (part of world cruise) now waitlisted along with all the other Whisper sailings...... so maybe the reason mine has a better loaded as SS have moved people from that near same date and itinerary cancelled sailing to mine.

 

 

 

[ronrick1943]

a full ship doesn’t really trouble me, they know how to work around that.  However a part “Charter”is something I wouldn’t want to be on—they close area’s and restaurants for the charter guest.  You’re paying full fare—and you can’t use part of the ship—No.

[MBP&O2/O]

Five of the first six Dawn cruises are shown as waitlisted, and have been for some time. I also can see that there appears to be a gap in the cruises? April 27 for 12 days ending up in Rome, and the next one is May 16 from Barcelona? Charter perhaps? All too confusing to me. 🤯 I will watch with interest.

[les37b]

19 minutes ago, MBP&O2/O said:

Five of the first six Dawn cruises are shown as waitlisted, and have been for some time. I also can see that there appears to be a gap in the cruises? April 27 for 12 days ending up in Rome, and the next one is May 16 from Barcelona? Charter perhaps? All too confusing to me. 🤯 I will watch with interest.

 

Its also very odd that the Dawns initial voyages with the TA and Sth American cruises have been replaced by the Moon. You would have thought they would be anxious to showboat the new flagship rather than mothball for a few months. The change doesnt bother me, but just seems strange. I know my rep suggested they just didnt have enough destinations yet they could visit and sell for to be able to justify opening up to full capacity, which is understandable. Maybe it just wasn't ready for service.

[mchell810]

9 hours ago, MBP&O2/O said:

Five of the first six Dawn cruises are shown as waitlisted, and have been for some time. I also can see that there appears to be a gap in the cruises? April 27 for 12 days ending up in Rome, and the next one is May 16 from Barcelona? Charter perhaps? All too confusing to me. 🤯 I will watch with interest.

 

There are other gaps in the Dawn schedule as well.  June 3rd to 10th is missing and then the 20th to 27th.  Considering these are the weeks before and after my cruise it's a little unnerving, especially as my cruise is waitlisted.

[Mayflower1]

Good Afternoon tbliss - regrettably your Post dated 12th January does not seem to have appeared - Have you received any further Information about the Barcelona to Lisbon Sector ? - we have not in spite of numerous chasings by my Agent ( and myself ). We are getting rather fed up with the Silversea attitude as its now nearly 6 months since this Sector was ' Waitlisted ' 

[MBP&O2/O]

I am so glad I took the decision to cancel our Dawn cruise in April 🙂I have little faith in SS at the moment … it seems to me as if they are ‘downgrading’ and adopting RCCL protocols. We sailed in September and the pre-cruise admin / corporate side of things was diabolical.

 

[brimary]

On 1/19/2022 at 2:19 PM, Mayflower1 said:

Good Afternoon tbliss - regrettably your Post dated 12th January does not seem to have appeared - Have you received any further Information about the Barcelona to Lisbon Sector ? - we have not in spite of numerous chasings by my Agent ( and myself ). We are getting rather fed up with the Silversea attitude as its now nearly 6 months since this Sector was ' Waitlisted ' 

Mayflower..Hope you are both keeping well despite the Pandemic.Sorry to hear of the appalling back office service from SS regarding your potential future cruise .Hope it is sorted soon!As you know from a previous experience we shared on a half chartered Silversea cruise we totally share your views on how the quality of the product is affected for a couple hoping to enjoy a luxury cruise amidst a half ship charter who dominate the dining facilities and Pool area every day.SS Executive who answered our complaint suggested in future we ask whether the ship is subject to a charter when making a future booking.Unfortunately very mixed results in following this advice.   .We have not raised the courage to contemplate a future booking yet ,maybe 2023,but hope all goes well with your booking !!

 

[Mayflower1]

Good Morning Brimary. Thank you for your input and good wishes - we hope that you are both well and maybe looking forward to another Cruise when Covid allows ?

 

Its all very well seeking Information when Booking a Cruise but regrettably from our experience no quality response is achievable to help with decisions - in this latest Issue the ' Possible Part Charter ' came to light only a couple of weeks after the initial Booking ( On Venetian Launch Day !!!!! ). All very frustrating and indicative of a Poorly Run Business especially now some 6 months later where no definitive answers are forthcoming. How can a Business allow a possible 4 Day Charter to impinge on Sales for 6 months ????

 

I notice that The Dawn Transatlantic has apparently now been cancelled after Barbara Muckermann specifically indicating some weeks ago that this would take place - Who exactly runs this Business and fails to Plan ? - Certainly those Guests who heed the Marketing Blurb to Book early to secure the Best Suite/Price etc are being taken for Fools and maybe we must learn from this ?

 

As we have said many times the On Board Service is wonderful but On Shore is woeful and a discredit to all the Staff who work on the Ships to give us such a wonderful experience. The Corporate Bosses should hang their heads in shame.

 

Sorry to sound so Down on a great Product but Barbara and her Cohorts have no idea what makes ' Seamless Luxury Travel ' that she so brazenly expounds at every opportunity. The Line is certainly losing its edge and there are others out there that may benefit.

[MBP&O2/O]

“

As we have said many times the On Board Service is wonderful but On Shore is woeful and a discredit to all the Staff who work on the Ships to give us such a wonderful experience. The Corporate Bosses should hang their heads in shame.

 

Sorry to sound so Down on a great Product but Barbara and her Cohorts have no idea what makes ' Seamless Luxury Travel ' that she so brazenly expounds at every opportunity. The Line is certainly losing its edge and there are others out there that may benefit.”

Wholeheartedly agree. I would also say that in my time at sea this was a common problem 😏 

HQ beancounters knew far FAR more about how to ‘work ‘ a ship than ships officers with years of practical experience🤬

[UKCruiseJeff]

1 hour ago, MBP&O2/O said:

Wholeheartedly agree. I would also say that in my time at sea this was a common problem 😏 

HQ beancounters knew far FAR more about how to ‘work ‘ a ship than ships officers with years of practical experience🤬

 

You have put your finger on the potential algorithm that could transform the top-heavy industry and individual brands but in particular any real so called six-star line to be genuinely different from all others.  But sadly the transformation would take a degree of centralised managements confidence that none of the lines appear to possess.  They don't like jumping off cliffs.  But it could be a baby step at a time.

 

The reality is that if you put in place a strategy that starts with the vision of "how do we reconstruct our business so that each of our cruise ships is fully enabled to provide the very best service that they can provide" then the solution might point you to a fundamental transformation that really isn't that  risky with the technology and sytems that we now have.

 

The starting point should be that the presumption is that you appoint the very best cruise ship senior management that you can, for example the three key positions being captain, staff captain and hotel director.  You then delegate to them as much control over day to day and week to week tactical operations that you and trust them with to enable them to do their job until customer responsive real-time customer feedback programms indicate that they are failing.  If you do then you will both grow them, prove your judgements were right in appointing them and make them enthusiasts of their role rather than emasculating them to become at best middle class corpotate follow the rules managers with no real authority. You also make joining your cruiseline industry aspirational for the very best on-board staff there is because your line provides them with a real job with real authority and a real reward for success because they have a real impact on customer satisfaction.  At the moment cruise lines are holding ship management accountable and responsible for customer satisfaction ratings for levers over which they have limited or absolutely no control.

 

So for example you allow HD's to plan menus and order fresh food to be delivered port to port using their contacts and experience and the planning skills you'd expect of them but using their judgement and experience to keep buffer frozen stock to backfill what they don't find.  In effect you are also allowing them to take time to visit fresh food markets and buy food when in port, invite traders to bring supplies to be inspected port-side  and plan menus dynamically perhaps taking cruisers with them to share the experience and have the joy of eating what they witness being bought.  "Fish of the day" genuinely means "FISH OF THE DAY".  You also allow the best wine maitres authority to do deals for the best wine to be delivered port to port that they can negotiate at the price points they are allowed with of course buffer stocks of the stuff they need to ensure no shortages.  This means smaller niche food and wine  sources rather than bland factory  of uber cheap wine blends and cheapo food sources.   I'm sure in time ship staff will share their contacts with  their sister ship's staf to build personal relationship.  To distil, the very best world class  restaurant owners have always built their businesses based on their relationships with their suppliers ... even more so than their customers, because customers always will follow excellent food and service - a concept that corporate staff in Miami will never, ever understand or achieve.

 

It might be that a really good staff captain who now has appointment and promotion authority rather than being supplied by a central controlled arms-length facilities management companies can over time create a more family orientated ship based on using existing staff to refer other family and village staff from their home localities if you get my drift.  In time creating a genuinely unique family atmosphere on their ship. There will be extended familes.   People are people.  They are more than "resources". These are examples.  You of course negotiate centrally for fuels etc.  If SS customers really value the on-board staff then nurture  those seeds to grow.

 

This confident model changes your line into several brands at an operation cruise ship level and it's my judgement that the industry's best staff would be attracted to them and so your line would have the best staff. So let the ships within a line have both delegated authority and rewards to not only compete through customer satisfaction measures and rewards with other l9ines but woth other ships within the umbreall cruise line.  Allow and trust people to do what they are capable of doing and have processes that simply monitor that it's working and only step in when it isn't.

 

The problem is it seems to me that the quality of corporate management in all these lines isn't up to the quality of management on the ships and turkey's are never ever going to vote for Christmas and these guys aren't going to delegate anything that proves that the local talented staff can actually do a much better job if they are simpoly allowed to.   I have rarely encountered in my business life where delegating authority to the lowest competent point was the wrong thing to do.  You work out what cannot be delegated for good real reason and then unless their is a compelling reason delegate everything else.

 

Anyway .. just popped in to say hello and suggest a way forward that might make customers and corportions winners. A "win, win, win win" transformatiuon that makes customers, staff, management and shareholders" winners. You might actually "accidentally" build a unique brand of ships with indivual personalites and strengths perhas with some lower costs and creapingly higher justified diems, revenues and profits that make centralised management proud of what they have created.  But of course management without confidence and vision  aren't ever going to make it happen. 

 

Apologies for typos etc.

 

Jeff

Edited January 21, 2022 by UKCruiseJeff
typos

[brimary]

Jeff.....Thanks for your excellent report on SS which is appreciated as it takes us back to the mid 90s when we commenced our annual cruises with SS.Many of the standards you mention were in evidence then and resulted in our annual association with the SS brand.Sadly the standards have reduced in quality which we put down to reduction in The level of back office rather than on ship qualities which remain at a high level and is the main reason we continue our lengthy experience with Silversea on an annual basis.Hope the on ship qualities remain at a high enough level to retain our support for a few more years.Don’t think the RCC takeover has done SS any favours in moving forward on a Mass Market approach to what was a luxurious small ship line in the 90’s and early 2000s!!

[Stumblefoot]

1 hour ago, brimary said:

Don’t think the RCC takeover has done SS any favours…

Other than keep them afloat.

[tv24]

We were booked on the Dawn's initial sailing from Lauderdale to Lisbon March 18.  It was cancelled due to Silversea's decision to use the ship for a corporate event.  The cancellation was announced yesterday.  We were offered some replacement options, none of them generous.  We chose a full cash refund.  And now we have an image of Silversea as being untrustworthy, not a corporation where we want to focus any travel plans.

[spinnaker2]

TV,

The cancellation of the Dawn’s crossing was announced by Ms. Muckermann weeks ago in what some may take as an unofficial posting. I would have to go back and search the postings on another website that she often frequents to find the exact date.

What I find incredulous is that statement about the cancellation never filtered down or up or anywhere to get to  pax, travel agents and others. 

That disconnect is more than bothersome. 

There were posters on these boards who did mention the fact that the crossing was cancelled and even posted the verbiage from Ms. Muckermann. 

Why did Silversea wait until yesterday to “announce” the cancellation?