Is there a dinner option for those who do not want to dress up?

[Victoria2]

1 hour ago, majortom10 said:

With the utmost respect when was your last cruise onboard Cunard. Whilst I agree the standards of dress onboard have always been adhered too Formal and Semi Formal (jacket required) when we first started cruising Cunard every night that wasnt Formal you would not have got into MDR without a tie on. The changes mentioned to Smart Attire and the dumbing down is already taking effect since cruising restarted. You perhaps never have come across people wearing polo shirts or shirts without jackets or trainers if you havent cruised since before the pandemic and whn you do next cruise you will see changes taking effect because we have. Prior to pandemic you would never seen a gentleman not wearing a jacket on any night but certainly many did on our recent cruise and have the belief that once cruising gets back to full capacity then it will increase and the ambience throughout the ship will be inferior IMO. Which at the end of the day is one of the reasons why we all cruise with Cunard the ambience in the evening.

My last cruise was Sept'19 and no, unfortunately, non since as we have had seven cruises cancelled on us including QE's initial return in August.

 

I too have seen the modifications over the years although we have only been cruising with Cunard for the past ten. We made Diamond in just over  four years so it gives some indication of the frequency of our travels with the line. Over those years I saw quite a few chaps without jackets of an evening, wandering around the QV's deck three, in the shopping Arcade, in the theatre and yes, in the restaurant if the heat became unbearable so with the greatest respect, which we both know means the exact opposite, this is not new; It has happened before. What is new is it being an actual advisory.

I have seen polo shirts, jeans and trainers worn after six, again, whilst milling around deck three. Not many I admit but the sky did not fall and the wearers, who were pushing the boundaries, went unchallenged. I didn't agree at all but it made no difference to us.

Cunard ambiance is made up of many things, dressing for dinner being just one component. For us, to say it is 'the' reason, is  incorrect.

I'm sure there will be more chaps who eschew jacket wearing but until baseball caps [worn either way] and trainers become the evening norm, and belly flop contests afternoon entertainment, we will still enjoy Cunard. 

If the 'new' ambiance doesn't  suit, then find a ship which has one which does.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Victoria2

[Victoria2]

Just now, Victoria2 said:

My last cruise was Sept'19 and no, unfortunately, non since as we have had seven cruises cancelled on us including QE's initial return in August.

 

I have seen quite a few chaps without jackets of an evening over the years, wandering around the ship QV's deck three, in the shopping Arcade, in the theatre and yes, in the restaurant if the heat became unbearable so with the greatest respect, which we both know means the exact opposite, this is not new; It has happened before. What is new is it being an actual advisory.

I have seen polo shirts, jeans and trainers worn after six, again, whilst milling around deck three. Not many I admit but the sky did not fall and the wearers, who were pushing the boundaries, went unchallenged. I didn't agree at all but it made no difference to us.

Cunard ambiance is made up of many things, dressing for dinner being just one component. For us, to say it is 'the' reason, is  incorrect.

I'm sure there will be more chaps who eschew jacket wearing but until baseball caps [worn either way] and trainers become the evening norm, and belly flop contests afternoon entertainment, we will still enjoy Cunard. 

If the 'new' ambiance doesn't  suit, then find a ship which has one which does.

 

[lissie]

3 hours ago, Victoria2 said:

 

I have NEVER come across anything onboard remotely like the thoughts expressed by 'some' here. Never. I hope those who are offended to such a degree take their offended sensibilities and go and find another cruise line which will suit them.

 

I completely agree - before I cruised on Cunard (or any cruise ship) - I was really worried about the dress code. In real life no one  gave a toss and everyone looked lovely.  I'm really pleased the jackets have gone though for most nights because it makes the logistics of flying 1/2 way arouind the world easier (and no I'm not paying US$500 per bag to have it shipped!) 

Edited November 30, 2021 by lissie

[Victoria2]

2 hours ago, majortom10 said:

With the utmost respect when was your last cruise onboard Cunard. Whilst I agree the standards of dress onboard have always been adhered too Formal and Semi Formal (jacket required) when we first started cruising Cunard every night that wasnt Formal you would not have got into MDR without a tie on. The changes mentioned to Smart Attire and the dumbing down is already taking effect since cruising restarted. You perhaps never have come across people wearing polo shirts or shirts without jackets or trainers if you havent cruised since before the pandemic and whn you do next cruise you will see changes taking effect because we have. Prior to pandemic you would never seen a gentleman not wearing a jacket on any night but certainly many did on our recent cruise and have the belief that once cruising gets back to full capacity then it will increase and the ambience throughout the ship will be inferior IMO. Which at the end of the day is one of the reasons why we all cruise with Cunard the ambience in the evening.

Can I also add, at the moment I don't think the hastily added summer/autumn QE schedules can be looked upon as typical Cunard cruises. 

I'm sure there will have been a large cohort of red tops, trying the line out for the first time and using the short hops as tasters.

 

Before deciding the ambiance is ruined for ever, let's see what happens when the pre existing schedules take place, with a more regular Cunard cohort. Sure some will find it more to their liking especially when, like Lisssie, long distance are involved,  but there will be many regulars who will either mix'n match or like us, stick to what we've always been doing.

[Victoria2]

40 minutes ago, kohl1957 said:

Sorry, but "we don't have to find another ship that suits".  Indeed, that is why WE (presumptive we) have been sailing with Cunard in the first place.  My first Cunard voyage was in 1977 btw.  I have sailed in QE2 under every single of her owners from Trafalgar House days onwards. 

 

It IS a major attraction for many: the tradition, the formality and the classic ambiance. Liked it for decades, too.  And again, for those who like more casual dress and yes the atmosphere that goes with it, 96% of the cruise market already caters to them.  So what is the problem? Must everything be brought down to some base level?  You may not mind people in the evening dressing like they just came off the 18th hole. I do. So does my wife and many people who liked Cunard just fine the way it was.  

 

Holland America went the way of Cunard about 10 years ago... it used to be a quality, traditional line with a great heritage and quite a delightful mid-level line. Now, it's been dumbed down to an indistinguishable mess.  That's been ruined and now... Cunard is clearly next.

 

Liking to dress and liking to share a cruise with those who do isn't any more "snobbish" than those who think they can and should wear trainers, trackies and a ball cap to dinner on an ocean liner. And worse... do.  

Cunard definitely was fine as it was and I know it's not 'snobbish' [hate that word] to want to dress for dinner in the same manner as ten years ago as we are of the same values and so we will keep to the same style of dress we have had for the past decade on Cunard. However, we won't  let any others, upset or offend us and I find it sad one or two here can't do the same. I am quite aware there won't be a line out there for you and those who are tee'd off with the evolving advisories and and  basically, if the 'new' ambiance offends, then  you are going to have to find another mode of holiday because it's here to stay. Sadly.

 

I want Cunard to survive and if 'evolving' is the way to go for the bean counters. then until the sleeveless vest, trainers and baseball cap become dressing for dinner, we will continue to enjoy Cunard.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Victoria2

[majortom10]

25 minutes ago, Victoria2 said:

Can I also add, at the moment I don't think the hastily added summer/autumn QE schedules can be looked upon as typical Cunard cruises. 

I'm sure there will have been a large cohort of red tops, trying the line out for the first time and using the short hops as tasters.

 

Before deciding the ambiance is ruined for ever, let's see what happens when the pre existing schedules take place, with a more regular Cunard cohort. Sure some will find it more to their liking especially when, like Lisssie, long distance are involved,  but there will be many regulars who will either mix'n match or like us, stick to what we've always been doing.

The recent cruise I was referring to with regards to the dress code in Britannia and PG was not a  hastily added summer/autumn cruise as we booked it in September 2019.

[Victoria2]

2 minutes ago, Victoria2 said:

 

incorrect edit, again

Edited November 30, 2021 by Victoria2

[Victoria2]

9 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

The recent cruise I was referring to with regards to the dress code in Britannia and PG was not a  hastily added summer/autumn cruise as we booked it in September 2019.

 

I don't think the present schedules can be termed typical of anything at the moment.

The world is in flux. I'll reserve judgement until we resume cruising next year.

 

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Victoria2

[PORT ROYAL]

As previously stated, one will continue to take a Cunard Voyage, but with one’s own Tux dress code, this being in addition to any formal nights to any stated Gala night.  Again, with further suit evenings.  One has standards and respect that will not be compromised.

However, there may come a point in time where the essence of Cunard, together with that of Cunarders, is sadly lost, with the Noble Queens becoming just another Carnival clone and Cunarders being replaced with human detritus.  Then the decision to abandon s#1t will be made for one.

 

[Lakesregion]

1 hour ago, Victoria2 said:

Cunard definitely was fine as it was and I know it's not 'snobbish' [hate that word] to want to dress for dinner in the same manner as ten years ago as we are of the same values and so we will keep to the same style of dress we have had for the past decade on Cunard. However, we won't  let any others, upset or offend us and I find it sad one or two here can't do the same. I am quite aware there won't be a line out there for you and those who are tee'd off with the evolving advisories and and  basically, if the 'new' ambiance offends, then  you are going to have to find another mode of holiday because it's here to stay. Sadly.

 

I want Cunard to survive and if 'evolving' is the way to go for the bean counters. then until the sleeveless vest, trainers and baseball cap become dressing for dinner, we will continue to enjoy Cunard.

Cunard will survive and evolve if required just as many a luxury resort has survived and evolved into a shadow of its former self to be frequented by only those who will never understand that the patrons are part of the ambiance. Those that understood that will be long gone.

[navybankerteacher]

3 hours ago, Victoria2 said:

...

 

... until the sleeveless vest, trainers and baseball cap become dressing for dinner, we will continue to enjoy Cunard.

And what makes you think that the accelerating trend away from generally observed dress codes will stop before sleeveless muscle shirts, sneakers (or yellowed toenail-showing flipflops), and baseball caps (worn backwards in the generally accepted idiot fashion) are the rule in the MDR -- much as they have become on NCL ships?

 

Once you step down onto that slippery slope it is close to impossible to draw any effective line.

 

Sure:  the world does not NEED a formal, old-school Cunard -- but does it really need another Walmart of the Seas?

[Victoria2]

2 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

And what makes you think that the accelerating trend away from generally observed dress codes will stop before sleeveless muscle shirts, sneakers (or yellowed toenail-showing flipflops), and baseball caps (worn backwards in the generally accepted idiot fashion) are the rule in the MDR -- much as they have become on NCL ships?

 

Once you step down onto that slippery slope it is close to impossible to draw any effective line.

 

Sure:  the world does not NEED a formal, old-school Cunard -- but does it really need another Walmart of the Seas?

My use of sleeveless etc was an attempt to be amusing. At no time do I expect Cunard to even remotely go down that route so not even worth debating with you.

[Victoria2]

4 hours ago, Lakesregion said:

Cunard will survive and evolve if required just as many a luxury resort has survived and evolved into a shadow of its former self to be frequented by only those who will never understand that the patrons are part of the ambiance. Those that understood that will be long gone.

The difference will be, in your parlance 'those that understand' will have left Cunard to those who understand life evolves but the underlying ethos of Cunard will survive and we will continue to enjoy elegant ships with fellow passengers who appreciate the lack of leviathan entertainment provided on the floating blocks which are now being built.

The term 'human detritus' has been used on this thread and combine that with the underlying  unpleasantness displayed by some to their fellow passengers who in their eyes do not/will not pass their exacting standards, then I for one will not miss their ' patronage'.

 

As I have said before, thank goodness, in hundreds of nights onboard a Cunard ship, I have never come across anyone who has these 'values'. I hope I never do.

[jzopp]

For the record, all of the major lines of old stayed afloat by embracing some form of fashionable good-ish taste of the time (...and failed when they could no longer do that).

 

It does not do to wish for a Cunard that hearkens back to a past that ever fewer people have any interest in revisiting. To do so is to wish for a Cunard that is out of business.

 

An aside: "human detritus". Truly a shameful turn of phrase.

Edited December 1, 2021 by jzopp

[majortom10]

14 hours ago, Victoria2 said:

 

I don't think the present schedules can be termed typical of anything at the moment.

The world is in flux. I'll reserve judgement until we resume cruising next year.

 

 

Well we were told by a senior member of staff that the new dress code is permanent "because it is what the customer wants" thier words not mine. Also was told that the flexible second sitting of anytime after 7-45pm had gone down well and been widely accepted and Cunard senior management are looking favourably at making it also permanent.

[majortom10]

I can only speak for the cruise lines I have cruised with in the last 24yrs but standards of dress and number of formal nights have seriously decreased on P&O and Princess in the corporate name of "it is what the customer demands" and can now see Cunard joining the same road how long and how far it goes down that road is anybody's guess but having sailed on 2 cruises post pandemic and with a recent change of dress code I see a remarkable difference since my last cruise in QG in Oct 2019. I sincerely hope I am wrong as that is why we prefer to cruise with Cunard but like has been already said if it goes too far it will just become an expensive P&O cruise which I tend to agree with.

[Victoria2]

50 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

Well we were told by a senior member of staff that the new dress code is permanent "because it is what the customer wants" thier words not mine. Also was told that the flexible second sitting of anytime after 7-45pm had gone down well and been widely accepted and Cunard senior management are looking favourably at making it also permanent.

I am sure these changes will be permanent. I had a chat with a senior member of staff two years ago about anytime dining and the idea wasn't dismissed so I'm not surprised to see it appear. I think the dress code changes are in answer to a more informal way of life. Something which won't go down well with many but if the CCL ledger keepers are happy, then the changes will stay.

 

I  heard a great report of one of the latest QE cruises and so I won't prejudge anything and will see for myself what effect the changes have.

[Victoria2]

50 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

I can only speak for the cruise lines I have cruised with in the last 24yrs but standards of dress and number of formal nights have seriously decreased on P&O and Princess in the corporate name of "it is what the customer demands" and can now see Cunard joining the same road how long and how far it goes down that road is anybody's guess but having sailed on 2 cruises post pandemic and with a recent change of dress code I see a remarkable difference since my last cruise in QG in Oct 2019. I sincerely hope I am wrong as that is why we prefer to cruise with Cunard but like has been already said if it goes too far it will just become an expensive P&O cruise which I tend to agree with.

and so, like all those who don't like the changes, you will no longer cruise with Cunard.

 

What is done, is done. If the suits have decided that's the way to go, nothing will change their minds and no amount of 'debate' on Cruise Critic will change things.

 

So debate away everyone but bottom line is, accept things have changed but still keep up 'dressing for dinner', which is what we shall do, or go elsewhere.

[jzopp]

24 minutes ago, kohl1957 said:

When those who like to dress on Cunard are "a problem" and not "keeping up with  the times", it's time Cunard.... goes. And won't be missed. 

 

Two things.

 

First: You've conflated something here. "People who likes to dress" have never been stated as a problem -- the problem is "People who likes to dress who broadcast how much others diminish their enjoyment by wearing a sweater to dinner instead of a jacket." This idea that someone can only be presentable in a jacket is really bananas, and having the nerve to actually vocalize that violates the spirit of British restraint that makes Cunard attractive in the first place.

 

That aside, it sounds to me like there's some misdirected anger toward a society becoming less formal. Being irritated at Cunard for updating its dress code is rather like yelling at the sun for global warming.

 

Second: Then let it go, and do not miss it. 🤷🏻‍♂️ 

Edited December 1, 2021 by jzopp

[majortom10]

1 hour ago, Victoria2 said:

and so, like all those who don't like the changes, you will no longer cruise with Cunard.

 

What is done, is done. If the suits have decided that's the way to go, nothing will change their minds and no amount of 'debate' on Cruise Critic will change things.

 

So debate away everyone but bottom line is, accept things have changed but still keep up 'dressing for dinner', which is what we shall do, or go elsewhere.

Dont assume things that I have never said. Please tell me in any of my posts where I have said I will not cruise with Cunard in the future.

[mcloaked]

I don't think that people are expressing anger about those who dress informally - but I certainly get the feeling that the significant number of people who enjoy dressing smartly, including a jacket at dinner, are expressing the opinion that only a few lines are left where there is a different ambience than all casual, and where still a significant number of people wear jackets, and ladies wear evening dresses for the evenings, and enjoy doing so. Many or most of the other lines have no requirement for smart attire, so for those people who do enjoy smart or formal evenings, there are only a few lines left where people who enjoy doing so know that they will be able to share that ambience with a lot of other people who feel the same way. If Cunard removes the formal and/or smart attire dress code, then there will be no or little other opportunity for those who enjoy that environment to participate in cruises that way, whereas for those who prefer to never go beyond a pair of jeans and t-shirt there are many times more opportunities with a lot of other cruises lines to go on a cruise and always dress casually - so for those who like smart attire it does not seem right that people wish break the code and spoil the smart attire feeling when they could just as well enjoy being casual in a lot of other ships without affecting those who like dressing up on Cunard.  So if Cunard and the few other lines where smart attire is requested, then lose all dress code requirements, those who like cruising with formal evenings would have no opportunities left to do it - whereas those who like casual dress without any smart requirements then have every open cruise booking at their disposal with huge opportunities for different options - so it would seem that breaking the smart attire requests is being unfair to those who enjoy smart attire and taking away their last opportunities to enjoy that atmosphere on board a cruise.

[PORT ROYAL]

47 minutes ago, jzopp said:

 

Two things.

 

First: You've conflated something here. "People who likes to dress" have never been stated as a problem -- the problem is "People who likes to dress who broadcast how much others diminish their enjoyment by wearing a sweater to dinner instead of a jacket." This idea that someone can only be presentable in a jacket is really bananas, and having the nerve to actually vocalize that violates the spirit of British restraint that makes Cunard attractive in the first place.

 

That aside, it sounds to me like there's some misdirected anger toward a society becoming less formal. Being irritated at Cunard for updating its dress code is rather like yelling at the sun for global warming.

 

Second: Then let it go, and do not miss it. 🤷🏻‍♂️ 

Your point of view as a person from America is clear
Those who offend the stated Cunard dress code, causing offence to the special Cunard ambiance are now requesting, only the offended British, to show restraint and not to not publicly vocalise it.  This must be the new American idea of reciprocity.

If there are changes to Cunard Dress codes, one will comment, but then continue to dress in a Tux, or a Suit, or Tailored Jacket etc., as one sees fit, on stated “casual” dress code evenings.

Society is made up of different social groups, that may, or not, wish to fully interact for whatever reason.

 

 

[navybankerteacher]

10 hours ago, Victoria2 said:

My use of sleeveless etc was an attempt to be amusing. At no time do I expect Cunard to even remotely go down that route so not even worth debating with you.

I am not interested in “debating” - but I am curious about the willingness of people to accept, without comment, a trend which, in every other comparable situation has, removed the essence of an experience once valued.   
 

It is not altogether unreasonable to think that Cunard’s management might listen to expressed views.  So if those who deplore the erosion just quietly go along and let those who want the “Cunard experience” on their own, casual, terms keep talking up their preferences, you can be sure that Cunard will (as you say) “go down that route” — upon which they have already embarked.

[Victoria2]

8 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

I am not interested in “debating” - but I am curious about the willingness of people to accept, without comment, a trend which, in every other comparable situation has, removed the essence of an experience once valued.   
 

It is not altogether unreasonable to think that Cunard’s management might listen to expressed views.  So if those who deplore the erosion just quietly go along and let those who want the “Cunard experience” on their own, casual, terms keep talking up their preferences, you can be sure that Cunard will (as you say) “go down that route” — upon which they have already embarked.

In that, I agree but the cynic in me thinks any expressed views won't make the slightest bit of difference to big corporations and so why waste time and energy raising one's blood pressure at something which won't be changed?

 

Yes, cruises are taking place which were already scheduled but they come after the summer itinerary of a changed code.

I would like to think next year, the core Cunard customer base will have a very similar attitude to us. We will continue to dress as we did pre Covid. There may be an evening where my husband takes his jacket off if it's particularly hot [thinking of the sun beating in through the window whilst we're dining] and there may be others who don't wear their jackets but if this little corner of Cunard is upheld by  a decent percentage of passengers, then the word might filter through to those in charge. 

 

Certainly that's a better message conduit than unpleasantries made on a cruise forum. 

[BklynBoy8]

Can't believe this thread is going this far.

 

If I haven't said it in any of these past 103 postings, My DW and I look forward to abide by Cunard's Original Dress Code guidelines each and every time we board a Cunard Vessel as far back to the QE2.

 

We look forward to as some say "Play Dress Up" and feel real Great along with all those other passengers that follow.

 

It gives a certain feeling and flare to the evening and possible theme applied to that night.

 

That is also why we do not change to one of those Mega Ships or other companies with an open dress policy. Thank you Cunard for allowing us to sail the tradition.