Booking via Web Site or Travel Agent

[slidergirl]

2 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

What may seem like a “hefty” price tag may still be quite the bargain when you compare bottom-line costs for everything required and optionally chosen for a cruise-centric vacation. Of course, that will depend in a significant way on how inclusive is every part of the trip.

Hmmm.  I'm pretty darn basic when it comes to my cruises.  No specialty dining, no tours, a glass of wine here and there, I'm a buffet salad eater...  Give me a room and a buffet and a place to curl up with my Kindle and headphones and I'm good to go.   Kind of the same way I go camping...

I'm working on my month-long barge and land trip for this summer now.  I did get my airfare through AMEX because they offered my a discount on my Delta One fare and I was using my Membership points to book.  I always check AMEX because I can get a deal with them sometimes like this.   My hotels are booked directly as I'll check prices around and frequently you can get a discount by booking directly (at least in France and Italy).   I have worked for hotels for years so I know the pitfalls of booking with a 3rd party company or TA - too many people arrive without a reservation they thought had been booked.    The cost of this all is getting up there in the "cruise only" fare for Oceania's Paris-New York cruise this year...

[iancal]

We have done many late booking cruise fares through on on line TA.  Anywhere from three days out to eight weeks out.  

 

Never had an issue.  BUT....within hours of booking we get the cruise line reservation number, go on line, and confirm our reservation details.   Same for air on those few occasions when we book through a third party.  Especially if it is a one way bucket shop fare to Europe.  Always want the locator number.

 

We do exactly the same on the odd occasion when we do buy hotel rooms through a third party.   

 

We have traveled enough to know that making the reservation is not enough.  You have to confirm/verify it at least once.

 

Edited March 6, 2022 by iancal

[Woody14]

5 hours ago, cruiseaholic777 said:

The TA will always get you a better price.

not always true, if they are a TA with group rates maybe but generally the price is the same there is just a few extras that a TA can bring (usually OBC) or what some call commission sharing.

[donaldsc]

12 hours ago, cruiseaholic777 said:

The TA will always get you a better price.

 

While a lower price is important, I am as concerned about the type of service I will get when (not "if" but "when") things go wrong.  My TA has fought for me several times when she and I felt that the cruise line was messing with me and didn't want to fix a mistake.  Much more important than saving a few bucks.

 

DON

[ontheweb]

14 hours ago, Ashland said:

"Always" Not if there's a price change and you can't get a hold of them  

And what if you cannot get a hold of the cruise line to get a price change when not using a TA? People are reporting huge times on hold and then getting someone who puts them on hold again as they are not authorized to make the change asked for.

[Hlitner]

16 hours ago, Ashland said:

"Always" Not if there's a price change and you can't get a hold of them  

That is why we strongly recommend using cruise agencies that have extended hours and a customer service desk that is always available even when a specific agent is not!   There are times when having somebody working for you rather than the cruise line can be very useful.  Recently, when on Princess cruise, we noticed that some promised OBCs did not appear on our onboard account.  We stopped at Guest Relations where they had no record of the OBCs and said it might take a few days for them to get a response from the home office.  So I simply sent a text to our cruise agency (customer service) and explained the issue.  Within an hour they responded that they had called the cruise line, resolved the issues, and our credits would appear within 24 hours.  

 

We have also pointed out that with our favored agencies there is usually no need to be on hold, need to transfer around until we find somebody who understands the issue, etc.  It is just a matter of sending a quick e-mail or text and letting them deal with the phones and hold times.

 

Hank

[Flatbush Flyer]

6 hours ago, donaldsc said:

 

While a lower price is important, I am as concerned about the type of service I will get when (not "if" but "when") things go wrong.  My TA has fought for me several times when she and I felt that the cruise line was messing with me and didn't want to fix a mistake.  Much more important than saving a few bucks.

 

DON

Agreed - though folks may think they’ve got it all covered, problems can arise where the right TA can make all the difference particularly when it comes to getting exceptions on things like FCC deadlines, transfers, refunds, missing Cruise-line perks or other items where advocacy makes all the difference.

[iancal]

5 hours ago, ontheweb said:

And what if you cannot get a hold of the cruise line to get a price change when not using a TA? People are reporting huge times on hold and then getting someone who puts them on hold again as they are not authorized to make the change asked for.

That is one reason why we deal with an on  line agency vs a bricks and mortar down the street.

 

The one we use keeps extended business hours even during holidays. They have to simply because of the time zone challenges.

 

On those occasions where we wanted to get a booking made or a reprice done there has always been someone available to enter the details.  Sometimes it was not the agent we always dealt with.  But....the phones were covered and our requests were processed.

 

[Ashland]

8 hours ago, ontheweb said:

And what if you cannot get a hold of the cruise line to get a price change when not using a TA? People are reporting huge times on hold and then getting someone who puts them on hold again as they are not authorized to make the change asked for.

That depends on when you call...You're agent can't make a price change without them calling RCI...so what's your point...someone may have to wait a few minutes...a small inconvenience in today's world !!...Personally when I've called even lately it hasn't been much of a hold...just lucky I guess with my timing. And even when the rep needs to put me on hold the wait time hasn't been that bad at all.

[ontheweb]

39 minutes ago, Ashland said:

That depends on when you call...You're agent can't make a price change without them calling RCI...so what's your point...someone may have to wait a few minutes...a small inconvenience in today's world !!...Personally when I've called even lately it hasn't been much of a hold...just lucky I guess with my timing. And even when the rep needs to put me on hold the wait time hasn't been that bad at all.

i guess you have not read any posts where people waited hours and hours and never got what they needed accomplished. Plus, if your time is at all valuable to you, it is not you on hold. And in addition, many of the large scale cruise agencies may very well have a contact at the cruise lines that they can immediately get through to.

[Flatbush Flyer]

3 hours ago, iancal said:

That is one reason why we deal with an on  line agency vs a bricks and mortar down the street.

 

The one we use keeps extended business hours even during holidays. They have to simply because of the time zone challenges.

 

On those occasions where we wanted to get a booking made or a reprice done there has always been someone available to enter the details.  Sometimes it was not the agent we always dealt with.  But....the phones were covered and our requests were processed.

 

Exactly, one TA we use has a 24/7 customer services rep on duty who can handle all transactions.

[Markanddonna]

On 3/6/2022 at 4:19 PM, slidergirl said:

I'm not a "hefty price tag" kind of cruiser.  So, I'm happy doing my own bookings.  Plus, I'm kind of a control freak about my travels.   If I ever win the lottery or marry a wealthy man just for his money, I'll be asking you for recommendations to those TAs who share comissons. 😉

You're my kind of cruiser!  With all the booking, cancelations, cruise moves, rebookings I have done this year, I would have driven the best agent totally crazy and I'd be on their no book list. We take long trips, do our own extensive planning, and usually go inside, so few travel agents would be begging for our business. No agent would work as hard as I do on trip planning.

[sparks1093]

I was just reading a post on the Carnival forum where the TA input a DOB wrong in the booking. The OP can't correct it and the cruise line won't correct it because the TA has to do it since it is their booking. The OP finally got in touch with the TA and they think that they can fix it but they aren't sure. This might be something that can be fixed at the terminal at check in, but again, a great deal of uncertainty.

 

Having a good TA can be beneficial, but unfortunately even with the best research one doesn't really know for sure whether you have a good one or not until something like this happens.

[iancal]

We do two things immediately after booking a cruise with our on line TA.

 

The first....we review her invoice.  The booking details, the price, the OBC etc.  It usually arrives within an hour or so of my providing our credit card details.

 

The second...we get the reservation number, log on to the cruise line site and verify all of the information to ensure that it is correct and as we agreed.  Including any personal data.  Even though we have ten year passports we also check that we physically have them and that the dates are not expired.  We do the same with any required visas.

 

This all takes 10 minutes at most.  It is pretty basic stuff.  Easy for someone to make an error when entering data.

 

We have booked 20 plus cruises with an on line TA.  Never an issue, never an error.  But we always double check.  Never, ever had a problem reaching the agency.  Call backs....always very prompt.  We have no reason to deal direct with the cruise line and several reasons why we prefer no to. 

[Flatbush Flyer]

14 minutes ago, iancal said:

We do two things immediately after booking a cruise with our on line TA.

 

The first....we review her invoice.  The booking details, the price, the OBC etc.  It usually arrives within an hour or so of my providing our credit card details.

 

The second...we get the reservation number, log on to the cruise line site and verify all of the information to ensure that it is correct and as we agreed.  Including any personal data.  Even though we have ten year passports we also check that we physically have them and that the dates are not expired.  We do the same with any required visas.

 

This all takes 10 minutes at most.  It is pretty basic stuff.  Easy for someone to make an error when entering data.

 

We have booked 20 plus cruises with an on line TA.  Never an issue, never an error.  But we always double check.  Never, ever had a problem reaching the agency.  Call backs....always very prompt.  We have no reason to deal direct with the cruise line and several reasons why we prefer no to. 

You did not mention the Oceania invoice. Hopefully, that TA also provides the O invoices (original and each updated one as things are purchased and payments are made. It is that invoice that most accurately shows what is in O’s accounting.

When we first returned to cruising in retirement, we used to use a very popular O preferred TA located in Orlando. But, when I learned/decided that I wanted the O invoice too and he refused to provide it, I dumped him.

[iancal]

One of the reasons that we have no desire to have our TA become our 'new best friend' is because we very much view this as strictly a business transaction. 

 

If we have an issue, which we never have, we want to be free to express our thoughts without personal relationships entering into the equation.

 

The one thing we have learned is that it does not matter where the TA is located.  Our focus is on service, knowledge, offerings,etc.

 

The TA for most of our past cruises happens to be a few time zones away in the US.   Our last Mexico AI booking was with a TA in the UK.   We booked an Africa safari and tour directly through a TA/ tour operator in South Africa.  Internet, skype, etc brings the contact into our home.  The only constraint is understanding the impact of time zones and currency.

Edited March 8, 2022 by iancal

[HardToPort]

I always research my own cruises / flights etc then ask my TA to book. There's a lot more to it than the cruise itself. The service fee ($25) I pay is great insurance. Whether I run into flight issues, airport transfers, bad hotels, rental car trouble or just need advice, it's cheap.

 

Case in point I was going to Portugal August 2019 out of Toronto. The flight was cancelled. Chaos ensued. While the rest of the passengers panicked my TA got me on WestJet to Boston, flew to Portugal from there (same airline) and arrived at almost the same time as my Toronto flight would have. WestJet is a codeshare partner with SATA so I didn't even pay for the Boston leg.

 

Afterwards my TA got me a credit for the outbound leg of that itinerary from the airline and an apology email.

 

i never could have done that myself. It's a worthwhile concierge service for me.

[Hlitner]

On 3/8/2022 at 11:03 AM, iancal said:

One of the reasons that we have no desire to have our TA become our 'new best friend' is because we very much view this as strictly a business transaction. 

 

If we have an issue, which we never have, we want to be free to express our thoughts without personal relationships entering into the equation.

 

The one thing we have learned is that it does not matter where the TA is located.  Our focus is on service, knowledge, offerings,etc.

 

The TA for most of our past cruises happens to be a few time zones away in the US.   Our last Mexico AI booking was with a TA in the UK.   We booked an Africa safari and tour directly through a TA/ tour operator in South Africa.  Internet, skype, etc brings the contact into our home.  The only constraint is understanding the impact of time zones and currency.

Although we still use three different cruise agencies we do tend to favor one particular agency/agent who has definitely become our favorite.  And we tell her that she (and her agency) are our favorites as long as they have the best deals.  In a sense that agency is only as good as the last booking :).  If one of our other favored agencies has a better deal they get our booking.   As you say, in the final analysis it is a business transaction.  And we are talking real money where a different agency might save us hundreds (or even thousands) of dollars.  

 

Recently, an agency we have used on and off for over 20 years failed to provide the appropriate customer service (it turned out that the particular agent who had handled our account left the agency).  This caused us a lot of grief but we finally resolved the issues.  But that agency is no longer on our "favored list" and will not get future business.  It will ultimately cost them thousands of dollars of commissions because they did not provide the level of service we expect and demand.  I always loved Norm's line (on Cheers) when he said, "It is a dog eat dog world and I am wearing milk bone underwear!"

 

Hank

[Flatbush Flyer]

On 3/9/2022 at 2:41 PM, HardToPort said:

I always research my own cruises / flights etc then ask my TA to book. There's a lot more to it than the cruise itself. The service fee ($25) I pay is great insurance. Whether I run into flight issues, airport transfers, bad hotels, rental car trouble or just need advice, it's cheap.

 

Case in point I was going to Portugal August 2019 out of Toronto. The flight was cancelled. Chaos ensued. While the rest of the passengers panicked my TA got me on WestJet to Boston, flew to Portugal from there (same airline) and arrived at almost the same time as my Toronto flight would have. WestJet is a codeshare partner with SATA so I didn't even pay for the Boston leg.

 

Afterwards my TA got me a credit for the outbound leg of that itinerary from the airline and an apology email.

 

i never could have done that myself. It's a worthwhile concierge service for me.

$25 fee? With their being paid a commission that may exceed 15% of the fare, why ever would they charge you a $25 fee?

[HardToPort]

2 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

$25 fee? With their being paid a commission that may exceed 15% of the fare, why ever would they charge you a $25 fee?

Not sure who's paying commission like that on a below cost fare from NCL, but the commission on a $1,300 fare was $78. No commission on the flight or hotel because she booked it using my points. She also arranged my pre flight Covid test, provided me with all the details I need to return without any problems. 

 

Over the last 10 years all the resorts, airlines, cruise lines, hotels etc have ratcheted down their commissions. Except for boutique or exotic travel, no one makes 15%. For basic stuff ... 5%, maybe a touch more. 

 

The entire hospitality industry has been hammered for two years so, I don't begrudge paying what amounts to the change in my cup holder for professional service.

 

im not sure what you do for a living, but you make me wonder why some people always believe other people don't deserve a reasonable return for services rendered.

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 hour ago, HardToPort said:

...Except for boutique or exotic travel, no one makes 15%. For basic stuff ... 5%, maybe a touch more. 

 

im not sure what you do for a living, but you make me wonder why some people always believe other people don't deserve a reasonable return for services rendered.

You may want to do a search of CC for the many posts by some fairly regular cruisers who report receiving Travel Agency rebates of 5-10% of the commissionable cruise fare (not the total fare). And often, better commission rates for a Travel Agency (yes, some in excess of 15% of the commissionable cruise fare) are related to a cruise line that may pay TAs on a sliding scale (which is why it’s always good for folks with a preferred line to find an Agency that is one of their top sellers).

BTW: Don’t confuse the Agency commission with what portion of it is paid to the person with whom you work. And recognize that the commissionable fare is what results from adjustment for port taxes, fees et al.

 

In any case, let’s look at the concept of a “reasonable return for services rendered” in what appears to be two vastly different scenarios. 
 

From your post, your specified needs appear to be more than what many of us who regularly travel (cruise and land) throughout the year would ever need while the related limited revenue generation you mention (a $1300 fare and $78 commission!) is hardly a “dream come true” for a TA. Add to the mix a $25 booking(?) fee and all I can think is what happened to YOUR concern about “a reasonable return for services rendered.”

 
Next: Let’s look at the concept of “reasonable return” related to a different type of TA relationship.  

For example, on an intercontinental trip (cruise w/some land) of a month or more, I do all my own research and arrangements (right down to ground transfers). At the front end, all I need from one of the very few TAs I’d use is to accept a transfer of a booking I did onboard or did with a trusted phone rep at my preferred cruiseline. At that point, a quick email exchange and perhaps a phone call with the TA is all that’s needed. And because of the nature and number of cruises we take annually (usually three intercontinental trips of 4-7 weeks each on a premium cruise line), you can do a rough guesstimate of what that means in terms of revenue generation for the Travel Agency that had to do ZERO “handholding.” (YES - “preferred partner” Travel Agencies really are often paid in excess of 15% of the commissionable fare by select cruise lines).

To be honest, there is one other service provided by our TAs. In essence, they are now on “retainer” should a problem arise with the cruise itself (e.g., in the Covid era, tracking down a slow to arrive FCC or refund should the line cancel the cruise). But, with most of our  cruises, all that we’ve ever needed has been the call for final payment, our occasional request for an updated invoice, etc.

 

What you may not realize is that some of the most successful cruise specialist TAs build commission sharing into their business policies and procedures and it serves them very well in the long run. 

 

 

[Hlitner]

I have never thought it my business to concern myself with commissions, commission sharing, etc.  My dealings with cruise agencies are simply a business transaction and the agencies/agents we use have been around for quite a few years and survive.  Folks need to understand that the cruise/travel agency is not the same as it was years ago when everything was straight forward commissions.  Today there are several major "consortiums" such as the Signature Travel Network that represent many agencies (both small and large) as well as big box stores, and very high volume cruise agencies (that sell more cruises in a day then small agencies do in a year).  Cruise lines work hard to become favored by these agencies/consortiums and there are various financial incentives beyond basic commissions.  One major cruise line (a very Senior Executive) told me that approximately 80% of their bookings come through agencies.

 

The tendency of some folks to concern themselves with the financial welfare of cruise/travel agents is almost amusing.  I have wondered if they take the same interest in their garbage collector, Walmart Greeter, McDonalds counter person, etc.  The travel industry is a very competitive industry and, accordingly, there is significant price competition.  We simply look for the best deals and service whether it be a cruise, hotel, rental car, etc.

 

Hank

[Mike981]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

 

The tendency of some folks to concern themselves with the financial welfare of cruise/travel agents is almost amusing. 

 

Hank

 

I worked in commission sales for years, if I didn't sell and then collect the money I would nothing. Never once did anyone ask my percentage of commission, or offer to spiff me some money.

Since travel is so personal, I believe some folks get friendly with their TA and hence the concern.

[iancal]

Since retiring 12 years ago have done 2 international trips a year.  Usually 8 weeks in duration with lots of spontaneous travel between both ends.  Sometimes a cruise or two in between.

 

We have only used a TA for booking cruises and  once a TA in South Africa to arrange a safari.  The rest has been booked direct and/or on line purchase.

 

Lots of people are doing the same.  Internet makes it easy.  That, and lower commissions, is probably why so many TA's have left the business and moved on to other occupations.  

 

I have never asked a TA what their commission is or how much they earn.  It is not my business.   My assumption is that if they we not happy with their respective remuneration they would change employment.  And many have.

 

I had years of frequent business travel.   I had a great TA for that who worked hard and did a great job for me.... and  made a good living.  But that was yesteryear.

 

But times have changed,  the internet changed commerce forever.  There is still a need for good TA's and they are worth their weight in gold IF you need the services that they provide.

Edited March 11, 2022 by iancal

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 hour ago, Mike981 said:

 

I worked in commission sales for years, if I didn't sell and then collect the money I would nothing. Never once did anyone ask my percentage of commission, or offer to spiff me some money.

Since travel is so personal, I believe some folks get friendly with their TA and hence the concern.

There seems to be some lack of understanding in this thread regarding the concept of “commission sharing” in the cruise industry and the importance of understanding how the industry’s retail business is conducted. 

Many excellent travel agencies earmark a portion of their profits and, combining it with pass through funds/perks supplied by their consortia memberships and/or received directly from cruise lines, find themselves (intentionally) in a position to incentivize their customers beyond whatever a cruise line provides directly for a person making a new booking (directly or via  TA).

The profit resource for a Travel Agency doesn’t just drop out of the sky. It is generated in large part by commissions. How much an Agency pays its employed/contracted agents is of no concern to me. Rather, having knowledge of (or at least a general idea of) the commissionable fare and the average commission percentage for prospective  cruises helps consumers understand the “ball park” of what is available for consideration in an offered or negotiated “bottom line” (resulting in a reasonable rebate or refundable SBC perk to one may expect from a TA).

 

This is not unlike buying a new car (though not right now):

In “normal” times, there are some folks who pay the “sticker” price (MSRP) and others who may do a little homework to determine the Dealer Cost price (easy enough to find). Sadly though, many quit doing their homework at that point -rather than digging deeper to find out current manufacturers’ unpublished rebates to dealers. With this information in hand, a consumer can target an attractive price (often below the “Dealer Cost) that still makes that dealer enough profit that it’s hard for them to say “no.” And, don’t forget that where car dealers make real profit is in parts and service. (BTW, is part of your price negotiation a long term discount on parts and service?)

 

In any case, knowing as much as you can about pricing practices, profit margins and commissions of ANY business where you may spend 4-5 (or even possibly 6) $ figures annually makes for good and reasonable business decisions on both sides of the fence.