Pinnacles back to Suite lounges Mar. 15 and other questions

[suzyluvs2cruise]

1 hour ago, SherriZ366 said:

So do I -- two reasons:

• Cuts down on crowding in the SL 
• As I posted earlier, the voucher's better wines and liquor really ae enjoyable.  Especially the wines and Malibu Rum.  

 

If vouchers are not charged for Ps in the SL I can see more going there to enjoy "free" drinks and thereby contributing to the crowding. 

[Starry Eyes]

25 minutes ago, HBE4 said:

 

 

 

From reading "live" reviews over the years where the reviewer would post C&A numbers, I seem to recall that the top 3 tiers (Frequent, loyal cruisers) usually represent somewhere in the range of 25%-30%  of C&A members, on a "typical" 7 day Caribbean cruise . Add in first timers that are not yet C&A, and the percentage of total cruisers on the ship falls even more.   These number are from memory, I'm too lazy to look up a source. I think @twangster and @John&LaLa usually post numbers in their reviews??

 

Just for arguments sake, let's say 10% - 15% of C&A members take 15 or 20 cruises a year, that's less than 1 cruise per ship in Royals fleet. Not sure that's enough to keep the company afloat (pun intended 🙂 ).

 

As for which group spends more per passenger, I have no clue. I'm sure there are extravagant spenders & budget-minded in each group.   Maybe first timers spend more on photo packages & ship excursions while  & frequent cruisers spend more on specialty restaurants & suites? Just my WAG.

 

Oh, I think the bean counters would jump for joy if 10% of C&A members took 15-20 cruises every year.  I’d guess less than 1% most years.  Those of us who love cruising and spend time on CC tend to forget how many C&A members cruise only once or once every few years.  In many settings a person who has cruised once a year for few years might be considered cruise aficionado that friends ask for advice.  CC is different.

 

Last time numbers of C&A by tier I saw was 43% Gold, 19% Platinum, 9% Emerald, 18% D, 10% D+, 1.5% PC.  
 

It would be interesting to see data, but I’m not sure newbies/lower frequency cruisers have less interest in suites or specialty dining.  It’s possible, but prepandemic I met many new or less experienced cruiser sailing in suites.

[topnole]

1 hour ago, twangster said:

I don't think revenue analysis by tier level is meaningful as it related to perks of the CAS.

 

One could argue that with around %50 of new to Royal booking typical cruises they represent the largest revenue opportunity.  They are also more likely to make the mistake of buying everything on board.

 

The second largest group is Gold so by the numbers there is more collective revenue from Gold members compared to any other tier.  

 

Does that mean new to Royal and Gold members should get the best perks in the loyalty program?  

 

If you think the SL is crowded now wait until every Gold member has access based on their collective revenue contribution.  

 I wouldn’t imagine they would do revenue analysis to give more to lower tiers as incentives.   But instead that revenue and importantly profit margin analysis might indicated that perks given for status don’t provide a good return for them and they reduce them. I’m not concluding that myself, but I wonder what the numbers suggest and I wonder if they will change things significantly at some point.  Could be how points are accumulated or it could be perks given (or both).  Now don’t get me wrong, I don’t wonder about this in a way that I’ll lose sleep tonight (or any point in my life).  I just wonder as it is such a different system relative to airlines and the like.  

[twangster]

Just now, topnole said:

 I wouldn’t imagine they would do revenue analysis to give more to lower tiers as incentives.   But instead that revenue and importantly profit margin analysis might indicated that perks given for status don’t provide a good return for them and they reduce them. I’m not concluding that myself, but I wonder what the numbers suggest and I wonder if they will change things significantly at some point.  Could be how points are accumulated or it could be perks given (or both).  Now don’t get me wrong, I don’t wonder about this in a way that I’ll lose sleep tonight (or any point in my life).  I just wonder as it is such a different system relative to airlines and the like.  

 

It's not uncommon to meet Pinnacles who are doing a month on this ship or that ship.  B2B and B2B2B or B2B2B2B are fairly common.  

 

Pretty sure Royal would prefer to keep those folks sleeping on Royal pillows compared to the competition.  

[topnole]

4 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

It's not uncommon to meet Pinnacles who are doing a month on this ship or that ship.  B2B and B2B2B or B2B2B2B are fairly common.  

 

Pretty sure Royal would prefer to keep those folks sleeping on Royal pillows compared to the competition.  

If they are in a suite, I’m sure that is true. If in a regular cabin and they spend a decent amount onboard, I’m sure that is true.  If they stay in an interior cabin and spend little, I’m not sure.   If they stay solo in an interior cabin at the reduced rate and spend nothing extra onboard I’m sure they would rather have a newbie couple in the cabin.  My guess is there are many pinnacles that fit all of the above descriptions.   There are many D+s like this too (many who probably lose money for Royal).  
 

So I’m not focusing on pinnacles per se, just higher tier like diamond and up who get pretty significant perks each day.  

[John&LaLa]

9 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

It's not uncommon to meet Pinnacles who are doing a month on this ship or that ship.  B2B and B2B2B or B2B2B2B are fairly common.  

 

Pretty sure Royal would prefer to keep those folks sleeping on Royal pillows compared to the competition.  

 

Never understood folks doing 4+ weeks on the same ship, same ports, over and over. I get the savings in travel and all, but I'd get tired of it

[twangster]

1 minute ago, topnole said:

If they are in a suite, I’m sure that is true. If in a regular cabin and they spend a decent amount onboard, I’m sure that is true.  If they stay in an interior cabin and spend little, I’m not sure.   If they stay solo in an interior cabin at the reduced rate and spend nothing extra onboard I’m sure they would rather have a newbie couple in the cabin.  My guess is there are many pinnacles that fit all of the above descriptions.   There are many D+s like this too (many who probably lose money for Royal).  
 

So I’m not focusing on pinnacles per se, just higher tier like diamond and up who get pretty significant perks each day.  

 

If CAS was losing money for the company they would cut benefits.  

 

If casino comps cost the company money they'd eliminate casino comps.  

 

Drinks are high margin.  Giving 4, 5 or 6 free drinks costs peanuts.  

[topnole]

26 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

If CAS was losing money for the company they would cut benefits.  

 

If casino comps cost the company money they'd eliminate casino comps.  

 

Drinks are high margin.  Giving 4, 5 or 6 free drinks costs peanuts.  

Unless you consider the revenue lost. So it isn’t the cost.  It is the lost revenue.  Six drinks not purchased per day is 78 per day if my math is right.  That isn’t peanuts.  Free internet all cruise doesn’t cost them anything either. Except it means they never generate any revenue from a pinnacle for internet (unless they stay in a suite and we assume that is baked in the suite price).  So there is another $10-12 per day not earned. Non pinnacle members are paying for internet if they need it all trip.  Non top tier are buying all of their drinks.  Giving 4-6 free drinks priced up to $13 is a ton of revenue they lose with many of the top tiers.  
 

Is that worth it to keep customers from trying other brands?  Is the Royal product not good enough to keep customers without loyalty incentives?  I know once I started on the big Royal ships I was sold (particularly Oasis class) and I stopped cruising other lines.  Status didn’t matter.  I was coming back and I was having drinks whether free or needing to pay for them.  Perhaps I’m the exception to the rule.  
 

So maybe you’re right and they know the numbers well and understand their ROI from such perks.  But knowing Royal, I seriously doubt it.  I think they are mainly flying in the dark on this stuff. Maybe I’m wrong.  

[island lady]

10 hours ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Never understood folks doing 4+ weeks on the same ship, same ports, over and over. I get the savings in travel and all, but I'd get tired of it

 

LOL...when I booked Harmony B2B well in advance, it was supposed to be eastern then western.  Became exact same eastern ports (with missing St. Thomas twice)....yeah...boring...snore.  😑  But at least it was nice to be back on a ship again.  Even with the not so perfect set up with ports.  

 

Next B2B...EX out of PR.  No repeats, with one leg even having no sea days.  🙂  

 

Going to Coco Cay, no matter if eastern or western.  Yeah...that is getting really...really old. 😮 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 3, 2022 by island lady

[John&LaLa]

46 minutes ago, island lady said:

 

LOL...when I booked Harmony B2B well in advance, it was supposed to be eastern then western.  Became exact same eastern ports (with missing St. Thomas twice)....yeah...boring...snore.  😑  But at least it was nice to be back on a ship again.  Even with the not so perfect set up with ports.  

 

Next B2B...EX out of PR.  No repeats, with one leg even having no sea days.  🙂  

 

Going to Coco Cay, no matter if eastern or western.  Yeah...that is getting really...really old. 😮 

 

 

I'm fine with B2B, even B3B. After that, I'd at leadt swap ships

[molly361]

11 hours ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Never understood folks doing 4+ weeks on the same ship, same ports, over and over. I get the savings in travel and all, but I'd get tired of it

And there are some Pinns that do several weeks of the 3/4 day sailings, same ports 2x a week

[cruisegirl1]

We like B2B (or longer) because we have a long drove or airfare and pre cruise hotel every cruise so we can cut the cost/travel time with a B2B rather than 2 or 3 separate cruises.   We started b2B in 2010 and have enjoyed them since. 

 

M

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cindyscruise]

So I gather RC has not addressed the vouchers?  Seems like if they extend free drinks in SL and still keep the vouchers you will then have D+ wanting to go back to free drinks in the DL.  If memory serves the reason for the vouchers in the first place was because of overcrowding in the lounges. Is that correct?  

[topnole]

1 minute ago, cindyscruise said:

So I gather RC has not addressed the vouchers?  Seems like if they extend free drinks in SL and still keep the vouchers you will then have D+ wanting to go back to free drinks in the DL.  If memory serves the reason for the vouchers in the first place was because of overcrowding in the lounges. Is that correct?  

I would think Royal could easily set policy for pinnacles without pushback from the lower levels.  It is easy to make

diamond and not that hard to make D+.  Pinnacle is an entirely different level and folks that know or care realize they will get much better perks because of the massive difference in points between D+ and pinnacle.  Just my hunch.  Maybe I’m wrong.  

[jamon]

Just curious, do they have the wine, beer soda, etc, free from 11to 11 now in SL? When Pins are allowed back in will they be able to also get this perk like before and still be able to use their 6 free drinks at other locations??? Anyone have ideas about this>>>>>

[Starry Eyes]

1 hour ago, molly361 said:

And there are some Pinns that do several weeks of the 3/4 day sailings, same ports 2x a week

I cannot imagine choosing several weeks of 3/4 night sailing b2b that if I had easy access to a longer b2b option.  Even if I stay in the same cabin, turnaround days just are  not my favorite day.  And the same ports, as you mentioned.  Potential loud party crowd on some short cruises does not suit me so well at this point.  But to each his own.

[ticketsunlimited]

13 hours ago, twangster said:

 

If CAS was losing money for the company they would cut benefits.  

 

If casino comps cost the company money they'd eliminate casino comps.  

 

Drinks are high margin.  Giving 4, 5 or 6 free drinks costs peanuts.  

One customer paying 13.00 for one drink covers the cost of 4 diamond "free" drinks.  It may cover all 6 of the Pinnacle drinks truthfully.

[twangster]

3 minutes ago, ticketsunlimited said:

One customer paying 13.00 for one drink covers the cost of 4 diamond "free" drinks.  It may cover all 6 of the Pinnacle drinks truthfully.

 

Thank goodness for pre-Gold members.  🤣

[twangster]

1 hour ago, cindyscruise said:

So I gather RC has not addressed the vouchers?  Seems like if they extend free drinks in SL and still keep the vouchers you will then have D+ wanting to go back to free drinks in the DL.  If memory serves the reason for the vouchers in the first place was because of overcrowding in the lounges. Is that correct?  

 

I don't think DL policy will follow SL policy.  

 

I suspect they have long been hankering to implement a limit in the DL.  Open bar was never a written benefit so the voucher system of any drinks, any time was their "out" to finally deal with the DL open bar "problem".  

 

The SL can include pre-Gold never cruised with Royal through to Emerald with no vouchers so they can't implement a voucher system in the SL.  There are Diamond through Pinnacle in full suites so they can't tell them they need to use vouchers while a newbie or an Emerald in a suite doesn't.  Allowing non-suite Pinnacle into the SL and trying to use vouchers just for them is logistical issue for wait staff.  How does wait staff know what cabin anyone is in without carding them and then they have to card everyone including newbie in suites.  

 

Pinnacle typically account for between 0.5% and 1% of all the guests on a ship.  Many, like myself have long had a hard time finding anything on the old SL drink menu that is appealing so many, like me, will be using our vouchers for a real drink.  From Royal's perspective it's just not that big of a problem to warrant carding everyone in the SL which isn't the image they want the SL to have.

 

Diamond Plus in the Concierge Lounges on Q class like Anthem is a much bigger problem.  Two to three hundred D+ is common on Anthem.  The CL just doesn't scale to that.  Even the smaller CL's on Radiance class can't handle the typical D+ load anymore.  

 

Will D+ member try to draw comparisons and point out Pinnacles are eligible for open bar in the SL?  Probably.  They don't really have a leg to stand on other than the words of Adam Goldstein before the Pinnacle level existed.  All the more reason for D+ to keep on cruising and become Pinnacle.  That's is the intent of the program.  Motivate folks to book more cruises.  Some will. 

[smokeybandit]

Just now, twangster said:

Pinnacle typically account for between 0.5% and 1% of all the guests on a ship.  Many, like myself have long had a hard time finding anything on the old SL drink menu that is appealing so many, like me, will be using our vouchers for a real drink.

 

But since the restart there is no SL drink menu (which is good and bad). I'll be curious if they ever go back to the temporary bar and SL drink menu. I would think they would at some point so people aren't drinking the good stuff for free.

[twangster]

1 minute ago, smokeybandit said:

 

But since the restart there is no SL drink menu (which is good and bad). I'll be curious if they ever go back to the temporary bar and SL drink menu. I would think they would at some point so people aren't drinking the good stuff for free.

 

What's the cost difference to make a cocktail with NewAm vodka versus Goose?  Is it really saving enough money versus cheapening the suite product versus the competition?

[smokeybandit]

1 minute ago, twangster said:

 

What's the cost difference to make a cocktail with NewAm vodka versus Goose?  Is it really saving enough money versus cheapening the suite product versus the competition?

I only "complain" about the new system since it takes longer to get a drink and you're not going to get a super pour like you did before with the temporary bar being off the books, per se.

THen again maybe that's part of the plan. Drink better, but drink less.

[suzyluvs2cruise]

2 hours ago, molly361 said:

And there are some Pinns that do several weeks of the 3/4 day sailings, same ports 2x a week

 

And many don't ever get off the ship. 

[twangster]

1 minute ago, smokeybandit said:

I only "complain" about the new system since it takes longer to get a drink and you're not going to get a super pour like you did before with the temporary bar being off the books, per se.

THen again maybe that's part of the plan. Drink better, but drink less.

 

 

There will sometimes be those guests who want a specialized cocktail that needs to come from a proper bar.  Not all SL have that.  That will slow down service while wait staff are off getting it.  

 

If drink service is too slow in the SL that's a service issue that can be resolved.  Maybe they can take the three crew members from the temporary Pinnacle Lounges and assign them to the SL now. 

[island lady]

3 hours ago, molly361 said:

And there are some Pinns that do several weeks of the 3/4 day sailings, same ports 2x a week

 

That I could not do.  So many things curtailed with the shorter cruises, too many "party types" and many families with kids running wild on a shorter ones.  Disruption on each TAD...IMHO. 

 

  One thing I found interesting is the new trend to do 6/8 cruises versus 7/7.   On anything less than a 7 night, several perks are missing.  So even though you are on for the full 2 weeks, you get short changed on that 6 night.  😞

Edited March 3, 2022 by island lady