No independent exploring

[ighten]

47 minutes ago, Denarius said:

Interesting.

I am currently on SofA. We are now tied up in Madeira. Next to us is Mein Schiff 3, and it is frustrating to say the least to see their passengers walking ashore independently past our ship whilst we remain under house arrest. I am due to sail on SofD in late July and if the current protocols remain I am not inclined to pay my balance. I am receiving good late booking offers from other lines and was considering sacrificing my Saga deposit to take advantage of one of them. If Saga would agree a late rearrangement to keep my goodwill, so much the better.

Cunards Elizabeth is in Gran Canarie - Im presuming from the blog and tweets Im following they are still allowing free exploration - Im not quite understanding why Saga is stepping backwards.. Due to go on Wed and now having 2nd thoughts

[Denarius]

29 minutes ago, ighten said:

Cunards Elizabeth is in Gran Canarie - Im presuming from the blog and tweets Im following they are still allowing free exploration - Im not quite understanding why Saga is stepping backwards.. Due to go on Wed and now having 2nd thoughts

Neither do I. The “ships tours only” protocol was sprung on us on the day of embarkation and the impression was given that this was a requirement of the ports we were visiting. We then found out that it was not, Saga were the only line doing this in the Canaries and that P&O, Cunard, Tui, Marrella etc were allowing independent exploration. Most frustrating seeing with our own eyes passengers from their ships proceeding ashore alone whilst we are not allowed to do so.

[Windsurfboy]

48 minutes ago, ighten said:

Cunards Elizabeth is in Gran Canarie - Im presuming from the blog and tweets Im following they are still allowing free exploration - Im not quite understanding why Saga is stepping backwards.. Due to go on Wed and now having 2nd thoughts

 

Will they let you move it at such short notice.

 

May not do any good , email CEO Nigel.blanks@saga.co.uk ask him to phone you personally so you can express your  unhappiness.  The more people that express their unhappiness  the better. If this is first cruise then use love it clause

Edited April 9, 2022 by Windsurfboy

[Windsurfboy]

2 minutes ago, Denarius said:

Neither do I. The “ships tours only” protocol was sprung on us on the day of embarkation and the impression was given that this was a requirement of the ports we were visiting. We then found out that it was not, Saga were the only line doing this in the Canaries and that P&O, Cunard, Tui, Marrella etc were allowing independent exploration. Most frustrating seeing with our own eyes passengers from their ships proceeding ashore alone whilst we are not allowed to do so.

 

Denarius,  I don't know how much you paid but it wasn't peanuts and you haven't recieved the cruise you expected.  What have Saga said, given this policy is not required by ports and is clearly out of step with other lines.  You could try your credit card company section 25 goods not as described , when you get back.  Or at a last resort  small claims . Don't bother with ABTA they always side with industry not consumer 

[david05]

15 hours ago, Kenmure said:

Just to keep you up to date…

From a previous blog you will remember that we were booked on a back to back after The. Glorious Canary Islands. 
retuning to our cabin this evening we have received a letter stating that “following Saga Cruises protocols we will not be able to continue with our guests aboard for the following cruise in the Footsteps of St James”

we have been given a full refund for the cruise and a “future cruise credit of 10%”.

we are unsure where all the logic is in this as after 8 negative lateral flow tests and at present with only one port to go apparently no Covid on board we would likely be of less risk than all the new guests embarking!

 

Sorry to hear about this. Presumably these are unpublished Saga protocols as I cannot find anything on their website and I find it difficult to understand the logic when you have been tested so much. I have an interest because we are on a b2b cruise later this year and will not be a happy bunny if we cannot continue on the 2nd cruise without a good reason being given.

[david05]

Saga really seem to have gone over the top with the no independent exploring. As others have said it is difficult to see how this helps to control the spread of covid. You will often have much less contact with other people if you go it alone. It is also a myth that going on an organised excursion means you are kept in a bubble because, unless it is a panoramic tour, you do mix with locals to a greater or lesser degree. I remember last summer a Saga excursion to the Titanic exhibition where it was heaving with maskless visitors and no way could those on the Saga excursion keep in a bubble.

[ighten]

Even if one is doing every trip you still have that feeling of being taken back to a lock down zone.. when or if I do a ships trip I still prefer to then have a little free time offboard even if its just to go stretch my legs along the dockside. I can only assume the pax numbers now are so low that the % risk has exacerbated or they are worried from a PR sense due to thd older clientele. Whatever the reasons it is a little bizarre and nonsensical.  Looking at the trip descriptions for next week what is going to happen to the free time to explore that's part of the ships tour itself.

Edited April 9, 2022 by ighten

[Wacktle]

ighten ... tried to message you, but it seems to be blocked.

 

[Kenmure]

6 hours ago, krrgolf said:

Hi Kenmure, so sorry to hear about the loss of your follow up cruise. Is it just you that has been cancelled or the whole cruise?

Just over 40 other passengers have also been bumped off the next cruise. We had a good meeting with the Saga World person on board who has noted all our comments and sent them to Head Office and arranged for the transfer of the 10% to another cruise that is already booked. We are awaiting clarification about the breach of contract regarding the information about lack of independent travel being told to us after embarkation. 

[Denarius]

5 hours ago, krrgolf said:

Hi all,

 

Re the reintroduction of PCR testing, is anyone (currently on board either Saga ship) aware of how the medical team treat the PCR results. The reason I ask is that it is still possible to register a positive PCR up to 90 days after contracting Covid. 
 

I had Covid (very mild) in early Feb 22 - confirmed by LFT and I had to wait 10 days to get a negative result. Been negative ever since.

 

If I get a positive PCR result and sent to isolation when I am completely non infectious I won’t be happy. In fact I am more likely to get Covid while in isolation area than in my own cabin.

 

I tried to get a PCR test to find out before travelling to Southampton on 24th but have been told not to do PCR test within 90 days of having Covid as the result will be false.

 

Anyone able to offer any thoughts?

 

Keith

Sorry but I cannot. I an as bemused as you. The situation you describe was already known to me. The pcr tests work by searching for covid related material that can remain in your system long after covid has ceased to be infectious. Which is why you are not recommended to have a pcr test within so long after recovering But if you test negative on lft before boarding but positive on pcr a couple of days later it is assumed that the latter test is the accurate one and you may well be offloaded because of it, whereas the more logical decision would be to isolate you for a couple of days then do another lft.

[krrgolf]

I called Saga today and after 2.5 hours of waiting (I cooked several soups and chicken casserole whilst listening to the 70s music) and finally got through - I raised my concerns about PCR test and historical Covid ‘residue’. 
 

A helpful lady (Terri) advised they were aware of the problem and if I tested pos on the PCR I should show them evidence of my test results in Feb sent to the Gov. uk website and they would not isolate me. 
 

I also wrote an email to Nigel Blanks (CEO) and received a personal reply within 30 minutes which for a Saturday was impressive. He said the cessation of independent excursions had not been well received but evidence was showing that Covid numbers on board current Saga cruises were dropping so the plan was working. He reconfirmed that it was the destination ports that dictate the %age Covid maximum cases and they are desperately trying to do all they can to keep pax safe and maintain as good a quality service as they can.

 

He accepted the after sales service wasn’t good - due mainly to the clash of increased Covid cases in the past month, the release of the 2023 brochure, and the numbers of booked passengers contacting Saga re Covid concerns and the Ukraine conflict. To be honest, I do empathise with him - it’s hard to satisfy everyone when so much is happening.

 

We will be sticking with this cruise and looking to stay positive about it (Covid negative of course). It looks as though SoA will be less than 80% capacity (with 2 weeks to go and ignoring Covid pos LFTs at the terminal) - so plenty of space and less pressure on staff.

[stephenSJ]

S o D, todays mystery tour port is Matril Granada.

Afternoon tea has restarted and the Club restaurant reopens tonight so services are returning to normal.

There has been no daily tests for 4 days now so perhaps we have a don't look don't find scheme.

One short lockdown yesterday when 18 people joined the isolation areas at the rear of the decks.

 

[lincslady]

No daily tests for 4 days - maybe the message is getting through.

[Windsurfboy]

11 hours ago, krrgolf said:

I called Saga today and after 2.5 hours of waiting (I cooked several soups and chicken casserole whilst listening to the 70s music) and finally got through - I raised my concerns about PCR test and historical Covid ‘residue’. 
 

A helpful lady (Terri) advised they were aware of the problem and if I tested pos on the PCR I should show them evidence of my test results in Feb sent to the Gov. uk website and they would not isolate me. 
 

 

Thank you , this is important for very very many people, the ONS survey showed in the week before mass testing ended, 4.9 million people had Covid that week , yet "only" 100,000 a day , a million in 10 days which is how long covid lasts. So many more people have had covid and did not know it.  ONS data suggests over nearly half of us have had covid this year. Many  thus asymptomatic and not knowing and not tested.

 

Thus the concerns about PCR and historical Covid residue , will be common to many of us. It may explain why Saga are finding a lot of covid.

 

For many people who  can't  prove they previously had Covid andbwho test negative on LFT, but positive on PCR  , would be denied boarding or quarantined for wrong reasons. My only  advice would be if you test positive on PCR ask for a second LFT and remind them of the covid  residue issue, and the promise  Terri a Saga agent  made to krrgolf on 9th April.  (I'm going to print it).  You could then argue very strongly that the evidence for your "punishment" is very weak. If they would let Krrgolf off, then it must apply to everyone

 

Krrgolf,  did you ask for this reassurance in writing,  if so could you please post it, as a promise made to one is a promise to all.

 

 

 

[lincslady]

On 4/7/2022 at 9:34 AM, stephenSJ said:

Witnessed a bout 100 souls leaving the ship this morning of which around 30 were crew. It's a very sad sight to see a lone elderly person wandering allong behind a hazmat suited helper.

For those of us on board we still await to find out if we can get off. Permission is currently still denied.

Some of these people may then well have had positive tests, but simply had 'Covid residue'?  And taken off the ship to get the percentage of infection on board down to apparently acceptable Spanish levels?  I hope that is not the case, but feel it could well be.

[Windsurfboy]

12 hours ago, krrgolf said:

I called Saga today and after 2.5 hours of waiting (I cooked several soups and chicken casserole whilst listening to the 70s music) and finally got through - I raised my concerns about PCR test and historical Covid ‘residue’. 
 

A helpful lady (Terri) advised they were aware of the problem and if I tested pos on the PCR I should show them evidence of my test results in Feb sent to the Gov. uk website and they would not isolate me. 
 

I also wrote an email to Nigel Blanks (CEO) and received a personal reply within 30 minutes which for a Saturday was impressive. He said the cessation of independent excursions had not been well received but evidence was showing that Covid numbers on board current Saga cruises were dropping so the plan was working. He reconfirmed that it was the destination ports that dictate the %age Covid maximum cases and they are desperately trying to do all they can to keep pax safe and maintain as good a quality service as they can.

 

He accepted the after sales service wasn’t good - due mainly to the clash of increased Covid cases in the past month, the release of the 2023 brochure, and the numbers of booked passengers contacting Saga re Covid concerns and the Ukraine conflict. To be honest, I do empathise with him - it’s hard to satisfy everyone when so much is happening.

 

We will be sticking with this cruise and looking to stay positive about it (Covid negative of course). It looks as though SoA will be less than 80% capacity (with 2 weeks to go and ignoring Covid pos LFTs at the terminal) - so plenty of space and less pressure on staff.

 

Perhaps Krrgolf you could help us all. Given as you say Nigel Blanks promptly answers his email,  you could email him tell him of Terri's promise and get him to confirm it. An email from the CEO would be useful for everyone 

[nosapphire]

Trying to be as objective as possible - Saga, along with all the other cruise lines, seem to be in the same situation as all countries were at the start of the pandemic  (and in some ways still are).

Nobody knew for sure what the best course of action would be, so various methods were tried to control it.

Naturally, with hindsight, everybody was able to say they should/should not have done this,that or the other - but nobody knew at the time.

The cruise lines are now trying to stay in business (almost said keep afloat - sorry) and all seem to be taking different approaches with varying results. We are not yet at the hindsight stage to know who got it right and who got it wrong, Saga may turn out to be right or they may turn out to be wrong.

But - where they ARE wrong is in the lack of communication and information.

I am sure that had they told people already booked that they were changing back to only ship's excursions, and given the option to cancel, move or stay, a majority would have stayed, some would have moved, and a few would have cancelled.

But most , even those who disagreed with it, would understand why the changes are made.

Same thing with cancelling the back-to-back for those already on board - if the letter says "protocols" then why allow people to book back-to-back without advising that it could be cancelled with no warning?.

By making the changes such a surprise - and trying to act as if it is standard existing policy - a lot of customers and potential customers have understandably been annoyed, aggrieved, and feel that they have been misled - which in several cases, they have been.

Saga will not be making changes lightly - it is costing them money and time but the failure to communicate is also costing goodwill.

Letters or emails to Saga should be pointing out that goodwill, once lost, is extremely hard to replace, and nothing loses goodwill quite as fast as taking your customers for granted and not bothering to communicate.

 

 

[Truro001]

32 minutes ago, nosapphire said:

Trying to be as objective as possible - Saga, along with all the other cruise lines, seem to be in the same situation as all countries were at the start of the pandemic  (and in some ways still are).

Nobody knew for sure what the best course of action would be, so various methods were tried to control it.

Naturally, with hindsight, everybody was able to say they should/should not have done this,that or the other - but nobody knew at the time.

The cruise lines are now trying to stay in business (almost said keep afloat - sorry) and all seem to be taking different approaches with varying results. We are not yet at the hindsight stage to know who got it right and who got it wrong, Saga may turn out to be right or they may turn out to be wrong.

But - where they ARE wrong is in the lack of communication and information.

I am sure that had they told people already booked that they were changing back to only ship's excursions, and given the option to cancel, move or stay, a majority would have stayed, some would have moved, and a few would have cancelled.

But most , even those who disagreed with it, would understand why the changes are made.

Same thing with cancelling the back-to-back for those already on board - if the letter says "protocols" then why allow people to book back-to-back without advising that it could be cancelled with no warning?.

By making the changes such a surprise - and trying to act as if it is standard existing policy - a lot of customers and potential customers have understandably been annoyed, aggrieved, and feel that they have been misled - which in several cases, they have been.

Saga will not be making changes lightly - it is costing them money and time but the failure to communicate is also costing goodwill.

Letters or emails to Saga should be pointing out that goodwill, once lost, is extremely hard to replace, and nothing loses goodwill quite as fast as taking your customers for granted and not bothering to communicate.

 

 

I totally agree with all the points made so eloquently in the above.

[stephenSJ]

S o D 

We should have been calling at Gibraltar tomorrow but the level of COVID is too high. Capt hopes Cadiz will allow a call.

This means we have not made any of the 7 ports on itinerary and as our return port has been changed as well from Dover to Portsmouth this could be some sort of record.

We Are again under lockdown in cabins as more are moved to isolation. It is very quiet around the ship.

 

 

 

[Windsurfboy]

15 minutes ago, stephenSJ said:

S o D 

We should have been calling at Gibraltar tomorrow but the level of COVID is too high. Capt hopes Cadiz will allow a call.

This means we have not made any of the 7 ports on itinerary and as our return port has been changed as well from Dover to Portsmouth this could be some sort of record.

We Are again under lockdown in cabins as more are moved to isolation. It is very quiet around the ship.

 

 

 

 

Dover move we can all understand given situation at port and on roads.  Gibraltar surprises me , it looks like their covid restrictions are nearer to Spanish than British. 

 

Truly a magical mystery tour, there comes a point when you can only enjoy it. 

[stephenSJ]

10 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

 

 

Truly a magical mystery tour, there comes a point when you can only enjoy it. 

It's just a jinxed cruise.

We went on a rare included excursion today. At the first stop a gent who already had abroken arm got lost coming back to the coach. We sat on the coach for over half an hour until he was found. By this time it was too late to continue so we returned to the ship with tour over for us 

We consider ourselves fortunate not to be in isolation yet and remain cheerful but it can be trying.

[Windsurfboy]

40 minutes ago, stephenSJ said:

It's just a jinxed cruise.

We went on a rare included excursion today. At the first stop a gent who already had abroken arm got lost coming back to the coach. We sat on the coach for over half an hour until he was found. By this time it was too late to continue so we returned to the ship with tour over for us 

We consider ourselves fortunate not to be in isolation yet and remain cheerful but it can be trying.

 

 

They let you out of coach and wander around , and get lost.

 

What is the difference between that and independent exploration?

 

The logic behind all of this is truly baffling !!!

[krrgolf]

9 hours ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

Perhaps Krrgolf you could help us all. Given as you say Nigel Blanks promptly answers his email,  you could email him tell him of Terri's promise and get him to confirm it. An email from the CEO would be useful for everyone 

I will email Nigel Blanks tomorrow and will ask for confirmation in writing. 

[111222333]

Not much help to people already on a cruise but interesting for those in May onwards. I emailed Nigel Blanks today and he replied very promptly.  He was confident that the no independent exploring policy would be lifted by the end of April !!

[krrgolf]

19 hours ago, krrgolf said:

I will email Nigel Blanks tomorrow and will ask for confirmation in writing. 

Dear all,

 

I emailed Mr Blanks last night (Sunday) and he replied within 20 minutes which I thought was very impressive.

 

I followed up this morning with a request to ‘publish’ his reply on CC to help others in the same situation. He provided the following statement for me to use:

 

”Mr Nigel Blanks, CEO, SAGA Cruises UK confirmed that so long as you can demonstrate that you have had Covid-19 previously (not within the last 14 days) and can support this with either your Covid NHS App or confirmation from your GP, you will be able to travel as long as the LFT is negative.”

 

This was in response to my email saying:

 

“Dear Mr Blanks,

 

One of my biggest concerns is the potential problem for me should my PCR test show a positive result whilst the LFT is negative. I had Covid in February, testing positive on the 7th of February and then negative on the 17th February. I have been negative on LFT since.

 

According to the NHS website, it is possible that the PCR test may show a positive result due to residual virus in my body for up to 90 days, but clearly no risk to anyone. I asked Terri what would happen in the circumstances as isolation would be wholly inappropriate as I am now Covid infectious free.

 

She advised that provided I could demonstrate that I had logged the results of my LFT tests with the NHS and had evidence in writing by text or email and showed this to the medical team on board, my PCR test would be treated as a “flawed positive“ and I would not be isolated.

 

Can you please confirm in writing that this is correct.”

On 4/10/2022 at 10:03 AM, Windsurfboy said:

 

Thank you , this is important for very very many people, the ONS survey showed in the week before mass testing ended, 4.9 million people had Covid that week , yet "only" 100,000 a day , a million in 10 days which is how long covid lasts. So many more people have had covid and did not know it.  ONS data suggests over nearly half of us have had covid this year. Many  thus asymptomatic and not knowing and not tested.

 

Thus the concerns about PCR and historical Covid residue , will be common to many of us. It may explain why Saga are finding a lot of covid.

 

For many people who  can't  prove they previously had Covid andbwho test negative on LFT, but positive on PCR  , would be denied boarding or quarantined for wrong reasons. My only  advice would be if you test positive on PCR ask for a second LFT and remind them of the covid  residue issue, and the promise  Terri a Saga agent  made to krrgolf on 9th April.  (I'm going to print it).  You could then argue very strongly that the evidence for your "punishment" is very weak. If they would let Krrgolf off, then it must apply to everyone

 

Krrgolf,  did you ask for this reassurance in writing,  if so could you please post it, as a promise made to one is a promise to all.

 

 

 

 

19 hours ago, krrgolf said:

I will email Nigel Blanks tomorrow and will ask for confirmation in writing.