No independent exploring

[stephenSJ]

S o D test everyday until yesterday when other events overtook us and it was cancelled. We were falsely labelled as quarintine at one point, see my earlier post.

[tring]

1 hour ago, stephenSJ said:

Capt has given up with Barcelona and we have slipped moorings and heading full steam on a mystery cruise to what sounds like Castelon to arrive later today.

 

That will be Castellon De La Plans, which we visited last Sept on Fred, along with some other unusual ports.  A nice little place and not at all touristy, seemed just genuinely Spanish.

 

We were never interested in Saga because if their incredibly high prices, including things that are of no use, or no interest to us, so we are very pleased we are not booked on them.

 

I would also like to add we have both just recovered from covid and, although we were not seriously ill, we were not well either - more like a flu than a cold.  We are in only 72 and in good health and I have heard similar from others who have tested positive recently.  A lot of us now had our vaccine boosters some months back (mid November for us), so I suspect that is why more older people are contracting it now in a noticeable way.  The effect of the vaccine stopping infection goes down very quickly if you look at the stats.  I am not in approval with Saga's actions, but am wondering how many infected, could have distinct symptoms, whilst still being quite able to walk off the ship.  We certainly could not have continued a normal cruise without our infection being noticed, nor would we have felt like doing so.

 

I send my support for all on the ship, the loss of being able to get off for independent exploration is surely a major change, so we do not see how Saga can insist on pax cruising under those conditions if that was not in the t&c's

 when they booked.

 

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by tring

[Denarius]

1 hour ago, Glenndale said:

But SoD isn't in the Canaries and I believe Valencia, Barcelona etc. require ships to have less than a certain %age of Covid cases.

 

But I am on SofA in the Canaries and am refering to the requirements here, not in the Med. 

[lincslady]

Does this mean that the authorities in mainland Spain  require the cruise lines to show proof that they have tested all passengers and staff, every day or so?  But evidently not in the Canaries?  

[twotravellersLondon]

2 hours ago, Truro001 said:

What a Saga! I notice that these threads concerning Saga cruises are being followed by literally thousands of potential / current Saga cruisers. It is no wonder Saga can't sell any of the recently advertised cruises on the Spirit of Adventure's Black Sea cruise in May. How can the management get it so wrong? I would at least hope  they have someone in their Head Office monitoring these threads in order to keep up to date with what their customers are saying. After all, Saga only have 2 ships. 

 

Everyone has their own priorities, is entitled to their own view and to make their own choices on whether or not to cruise with any particular cruise line. If we had serious concerns about any particular company... after having checked them out... we would give them a miss, and be content to be happy cruisers on another line. 

 

We would be very surprised if SAGA management we unaware of comments on review sites and social media in general and we're sure that these will be looked at in the wider context of commercial, legal and industry requirements. 

 

For instance, there are only 14 people currently following this thread. At least two of those seem to have never booked a SAGA cruise. At least one other has been critical of SAGA in virtually every post since the cruise line became all balcony. The total viewing figures don't represent the number of individuals as many people are viewing the site multiple times... as is evident from the number of comments they have made. In addition, some people who have viewed the site may have no interest in cruising with SAGA in the first place.

 

In the wider context, the Saga share price has increased by 7% while this thread has been running ... during the same time-span Carnival's share-price has stayed virtually the same. In the last few days, hundreds of people have booked on same SAGA's newly released 2023 cruise as we've just done. We're sure that SAGA has probably had 1000s of sales in the last week or so. Very clearly, different people have very different views!

 

We very greatly sympathise with those folks whose hols have been disrupted and feel frustrated. We also sympathise with folk who, despite being fully vaccinated have caught covid... sometimes again and again.

We especially empathise with the crew on SAGA ships who are working so hard to do whatever they can to provide the best possible service despite staff being reduced due to covid and despite the risks of contracting covid again and again and again. 

 

We've sailed with lots of different cruise-lines and travelled with lots of different companies over the years. All have their pros and cons. We've spent weeks and weeks investigating and researching the cruise-lines that we've used and the alternatives... including reading and weighing up the comments and advice on these boards. The result... we've decided to give two of the cruise lines that we've used in the recent past a miss... and we now have booked total about 100 days with SAGA.

 

 

 

[nosapphire]

40 minutes ago, lincslady said:

Does this mean that the authorities in mainland Spain  require the cruise lines to show proof that they have tested all passengers and staff, every day or so?  But evidently not in the Canaries?  

post no 31 included a very helpful link to the revised protocols for Spanish Ports (in English).

Reading it, it seems that Saga have gone way, way over and above the requirements for testing during the cruise - it is NOT a Spanish requirement that every passenger is tested prior to the ship's arrival.

Testing during the cruise is required for those who are ending the cruise in Spain, and those who are showing symptoms of Covid.

The timing of periodic screening tests is left up to the ship, the Spanish requirement is for temperature and symptom checks, and testing for anyone suspected to having Covid.

 

[lincslady]

twotravellersLondon - I am a big fan of Saga, (gold member) though I have not yet travelled on the new ships, and would love to.  However, I fear that when some of these people who have been disembarked in Spain get home, and discover that the same sort of rigour was not being applied by other lines, there could be repercussions even in the press, if they decide to make something of it.   And I personally think they would be entitled to.  There are almost certainly passengers on  other lines, who do not have to be tested,  going ashore in ports when they would be testing positive, even though feeling well.  As this also probably  applies also to any locals they may come across, I do feel that Saga have gone above and beyond to the detriment of their passengers and crew.  It seems at present as if we are expected to start thinking of Covid as like flu, and need to continue getting back to 'normal' in our daily lives.

[Dermotsgirl]

3 hours ago, tring said:

 

That will be Castellon De La Plans, which we visited last Sept on Fred, along with some other unusual ports.  A nice little place and not at all touristy, seemed just genuinely Spanish.

 

We were never interested in Saga because if their incredibly high prices, including things that are of no use, or no interest to us, so we are very pleased we are not booked on them.

 

I would also like to add we have both just recovered from covid and, although we were not seriously ill, we were not well either - more like a flu than a cold.  We are in only 72 and in good health and I have heard similar from others who have tested positive recently.  A lot of us now had our vaccine boosters some months back (mid November for us), so I suspect that is why more older people are contracting it now in a noticeable way.  The effect of the vaccine stopping infection goes down very quickly if you look at the stats.  I am not in approval with Saga's actions, but am wondering how many infected, could have distinct symptoms, whilst still being quite able to walk off the ship.  We certainly could not have continued a normal cruise without our infection being noticed, nor would we have felt like doing so.

 

I send my support for all on the ship, the loss of being able to get off for independent exploration is surely a major change, so we do not see how Saga can insist on pax cruising under those conditions if that was not in the t&c's

 when they booked.

 

 

I was just about to post something very similar, but you have worded it better than I could have done.

 

I am in complete agreement with what you have said. A lot of people have convinced themselves that Covid is so 'mild' that it is barely noticeable, but many others have reported similar experiences to you, feeling quite ill for a few days. I'm sure many of the people who were taken off the ship didn't feel much like going for a walk, but were able to do it without having to be wheeled or carried off.

 

I am really puzzled by Saga's decision to only allow going ashore on Saga excursions. In many ways, it would be best to allow people to go off and do their own thing, as they'd be walking round in the open and having coffee in the open air in pavement cafes, rather than being cooped up on a coach, infecting each other. 

 

I'm not sure what the answer is, but feel that it has to be a partnership between cruise line and passenger, who both have a part to play to keep infections as low as possible.

 

However, I'm not sure that this is possible, particularly as many people think the answer is to just ignore Covid.  With 1 in 13 people currently infected in England (ONS figure) this approach hasn't worked ashore, and is even less likely to work in the closed community of a cruise ship 

[twotravellersLondon]

1 hour ago, lincslady said:

wotravellersLondon - I am a big fan of Saga, (gold member) though I have not yet travelled on the new ships, and would love to.  However, I fear that when some of these people who have been disembarked in Spain get home, and discover that the same sort of rigour was not being applied by other lines, there could be repercussions even in the press, if they decide to make something of it.   And I personally think they would be entitled to.  There are almost certainly passengers on  other lines, who do not have to be tested,  going ashore in ports when they would be testing positive, even though feeling well.  As this also probably  applies also to any locals they may come across, I do feel that Saga have gone above and beyond to the detriment of their passengers and crew.  It seems at present as if we are expected to start thinking of Covid as like flu, and need to continue getting back to 'normal' in our daily lives.

 

I fully agree with you that they may be all manner of repercussions as a result on how individual cruise companies have handled the global-pandemic. In the U.S. of A. there are innumerable law suits ranging from class-actions to individual claims against cruise companies on the basis of what they did or what they did not do at any given time.

 

However, I think that the board of SAGA PLC most probably has far more insight, knowledge and expertise than the vast majority of keen cruisers do in foreseeing and dealing with potential repercussions. In SAGA's latest corporate report... published just a couple of weeks ago, the Company had a resilient performance in a challenging world and the cruise sector had generated positive earnings, ships had sailed on average at 68% capacity (one of the best performances in the industry), bookings for 2022-2023 were strong with ships estimated to be sailing at 73% capacity at an increased average income of £319 per diem. Customer satisfaction levels were 9.1 out of 10... exceptional in the industry. The report is 68 pages long, easy to find on the web and gives an insight into the immensely complex corporate world of the modern cruise industry.

 

We have always travelled the world hoping for the best, preparing for the worst and being grateful for small mercies... and we will continue to do so. In these uncertain times, we're happier to cruise with SAGA than many other companies. We've done our research,  looked at the facts and respectfully listened to all manner of views that people have been kind enough to offer (everyone seems to have a different opinion!)... but now "we've made our choice and paid our money"... and we look forward to whatever joys and excitement that the world can bring.

[Windsurfboy]

2 hours ago, nosapphire said:

post no 31 included a very helpful link to the revised protocols for Spanish Ports (in English).

Reading it, it seems that Saga have gone way, way over and above the requirements for testing during the cruise - it is NOT a Spanish requirement that every passenger is tested prior to the ship's arrival.

Testing during the cruise is required for those who are ending the cruise in Spain, and those who are showing symptoms of Covid.

The timing of periodic screening tests is left up to the ship, the Spanish requirement is for temperature and symptom checks, and testing for anyone suspected to having Covid.

 

 

Perhaps someone on the SoD who have been denied entry and have their cruise ruined could point this out to Nigel.blanks@saga.co.uk Saga cruise CEO , he does answer his emails. 

[teddyholt]

Wrote to a recorded delivery letter to Mr Blanks - Saga cruisingCEO - (resisted any firing witticisms) re not allowing people on shore unless on an organised excursion not being a significant change to a cruise. We managed to defer our cruise on the 13th to one next year but if that cruise has the same restriction we would be strongly arguing that this is a significant change. We would never book a cruise with that restriction and I don't think many other people would either !!

[kool kruiser]

I was contemplating taking a first cruise on Saga but could not find the appropriate itinerary within my desired sailing timeframe. Instead, together with a fair number of UK cruisers, we are embarking in May on Azamara for the first time. My, have we dodged some bullets !! Of course, independent excursions allowed by Azamara unless forbidden by local authorities. Just the one test, on embarkation and certainly no looking for covid problems. This thread has certainly meant that I will not consider Saga until we are truly post-covid, as they are so out of line with other lines ( not just Azamara ).

[krrgolf]

Hi all,

 

We are on the 24th April cruise, Covid permitting.

 

Interesting to see that since 27th March the number of available cabins has increased from 70 ish to over 100. Standard twins going from 48 to 78 in less than 2 weeks. I rang Saga with a number of questions, waited 2 hours on the ‘existing booking’ option with no reply. Rang the new cruise booking number, no reply after 15 mins, but someone phoned back to say they had a missed call. When I said I had an existing booking you could hear the audible groan. He was at least helpful to a point.

 

The reasons given for the increase…… new Covid cases already and people not wanting to cruise at the moment……. Saga cancelling people who don’t have the required Covid cover in their travel insurance (he said if you don’t have cover in place within a month of travel, you won’t get Covid cover? - no idea if this is true or not).

 

 

Was told that if we wanted to move to a later cruise it could only be in 2022.

 

We are now about to enter our 14 day pre travel - ‘you must tell us if you test positive’ period - It was suggested to me by a Saga employee….. of course if you don’t tell us, we won’t know! Just need that negative LFT at Southampton.

 

Reduced numbers on board is a good thing for those on board - so we will stick with it. Numbers in UK are dropping (maybe not fewer actual cases, just folk not wanting to pay for their tests!) so by the time the 24th arrives maybe some of these thread issues will have gone away/or reduced. Totally agree with the earlier comment that these threads tend to be dominated by a few posters so can provide a very disproportionate view.

 

We had the letter re shore excursions and other increased protocols last Saturday - we are not sure we agree with the logic of no independent travel ashore but we are not paid to make such decisions. What we can do, like everyone else is make our own informed choices in the future.

[stephenSJ]

S o D arrived castellan evening and had a jazz band paella and glitter girls to welcome us on the keyside so 10 out of 10 for effort.

There was an excursion to the mountains, have never been on a mountain night time excursion before and now I see why but again a good effort in trying circumstances.

I think the captain has gone rogue as we awoke this morning in Palma Mallorca in Balearic Islands rather than sete and the announcement said no idea yet where we will be tomorrow. They have managed daytime trips here so all good

 

[lincslady]

It is turning to be one of those mystery cruises!  It is good to know that they are really trying to make things enjoyable for you all.

[Holcha]

We have also been watching the available cabin numbers increasing, along with all other comments on here and other sites.  We believe Saga will look after all passengers as appropriate.  We also think numbers of positive cases will decrease in the coming weeks, and therefore are a little more positive.  Will start getting things ready now and thinking of some lovely warm sunshine on the balcony and hopefully elsewhere on the ship.  Best wishes to all currently on both SoA and SoD.

[krrgolf]

1 minute ago, Holcha said:

We have also been watching the available cabin numbers increasing, along with all other comments on here and other sites.  We believe Saga will look after all passengers as appropriate.  We also think numbers of positive cases will decrease in the coming weeks, and therefore are a little more positive.  Will start getting things ready now and thinking of some lovely warm sunshine on the balcony and hopefully elsewhere on the ship.  Best wishes to all currently on both SoA and SoD.

Totally agree with you - you have to positive. We are starting to pack too - you have to look forward.

 

After all, it is our choice to go on holiday at this time and given the past two years it was always likely to be less than totally straightforward. This is our first Saga cruise, we have another booked for Dec/Jan and I am sure they will do their best to look after their passengers.

[Truro001]

On 4/6/2022 at 8:57 AM, Windsurfboy said:

Doesn't sound fun

 

By the way Saga cruise CEO

 

Nigel.blanks@saga.co.uk

Thank you for that information Windsurfboy. I have have just written to Nigel Blanks concerning Saga's new Covid protocols and the security aspects of entering the Black Sea. 

[Windsurfboy]

If you receive a positive test result during your cruise, you will be required to isolate for a minimum of 5 days. In this event, we will decide whether it is more suitable for you to isolate onboard or ashore. This will be based on local authority requirements and our own assessment.

 

Reading the above extract from the Saga , website, covid T&Cs .  I  would think the decision by Saga as to where you should quarantine, was purely based on a medical assessment. There is no indication that you could be off-loaded just to get the numbers right. I understand the reason why they want to do this, but surely there should be some warning in Covid section of website that this is a possibility. 

 

Reading this most people would think if they have mild covid they would be asked to isolate until they test negative twice then get on with cruise

[Windsurfboy]

Oops posted above in wrong thread

[Kenmure]

Just to keep you up to date…

From a previous blog you will remember that we were booked on a back to back after The. Glorious Canary Islands. 
retuning to our cabin this evening we have received a letter stating that “following Saga Cruises protocols we will not be able to continue with our guests aboard for the following cruise in the Footsteps of St James”

we have been given a full refund for the cruise and a “future cruise credit of 10%”.

we are unsure where all the logic is in this as after 8 negative lateral flow tests and at present with only one port to go apparently no Covid on board we would likely be of less risk than all the new guests embarking!

 

[krrgolf]

10 hours ago, Kenmure said:

Just to keep you up to date…

From a previous blog you will remember that we were booked on a back to back after The. Glorious Canary Islands. 
retuning to our cabin this evening we have received a letter stating that “following Saga Cruises protocols we will not be able to continue with our guests aboard for the following cruise in the Footsteps of St James”

we have been given a full refund for the cruise and a “future cruise credit of 10%”.

we are unsure where all the logic is in this as after 8 negative lateral flow tests and at present with only one port to go apparently no Covid on board we would likely be of less risk than all the new guests embarking!

 

Hi Kenmure, so sorry to hear about the loss of your follow up cruise. Is it just you that has been cancelled or the whole cruise?

[Denarius]

On 4/7/2022 at 4:56 PM, teddyholt said:

Wrote to a recorded delivery letter to Mr Blanks - Saga cruisingCEO - (resisted any firing witticisms) re not allowing people on shore unless on an organised excursion not being a significant change to a cruise. We managed to defer our cruise on the 13th to one next year but if that cruise has the same restriction we would be strongly arguing that this is a significant change. We would never book a cruise with that restriction and I don't think many other people would either !!

Interesting.

I am currently on SofA. We are now tied up in Madeira. Next to us is Mein Schiff 3, and it is frustrating to say the least to see their passengers walking ashore independently past our ship whilst we remain under house arrest. I am due to sail on SofD in late July and if the current protocols remain I am not inclined to pay my balance. I am receiving good late booking offers from other lines and was considering sacrificing my Saga deposit to take advantage of one of them. If Saga would agree a late rearrangement to keep my goodwill, so much the better.

[krrgolf]

Hi all,

 

Re the reintroduction of PCR testing, is anyone (currently on board either Saga ship) aware of how the medical team treat the PCR results. The reason I ask is that it is still possible to register a positive PCR up to 90 days after contracting Covid. 
 

I had Covid (very mild) in early Feb 22 - confirmed by LFT and I had to wait 10 days to get a negative result. Been negative ever since.

 

If I get a positive PCR result and sent to isolation when I am completely non infectious I won’t be happy. In fact I am more likely to get Covid while in isolation area than in my own cabin.

 

I tried to get a PCR test to find out before travelling to Southampton on 24th but have been told not to do PCR test within 90 days of having Covid as the result will be false.

 

Anyone able to offer any thoughts?

 

Keith

[stephenSJ]

S oD is having a sea day on the mystery tour on the way to see if we can dock in almeria as roses and sete are cancelled.

We have yet to successfully port in any of the original 7 ports with only Gibraltar being the remaining hope for the original itinerary.

It is flat calm and a beautiful sunny day..

We are to homeport in Portsmouth not Dover when we get back