Violent Passenger on Ruby

[Pink-belle]

Just now, sfaaa said:

A few years ago on an Alaska cruise, a husband killed his wife after an argument on Emerial Princess. He was convicted of second degree murder and got 30 years behind bars. Domestic violence indeed  happens on high sea.

That was indeed tragic, I sailed Emerald shortly after and was absolutely dismayed at the number of fellow pax, talking about it and quite proud they had “seen” the stateroom. 
 

In this case The OP was talking about slammed doors and kids yelling not sounds of arguments or disagreements. 

[caribill]

10 hours ago, KISS Kruiser said:

Right when I was closing it I saw his fist come up and he stopped my door from closing with his fist. He dented my door. 

 

He told me they cannot control the actions of other passengers, that it was basically a "he said she said" situation and if anything further happened either by me or the other passenger it would be dealt with. 

 

 

 

The dented door should be proof that it was more than a "he said, she said" situation.

 

(Unless they said it was a "he dented the door, she dented the door" situation.)

[caribill]

4 hours ago, Radbooks said:

I was on the Grand to Hawaii several years ago and there was a big fight between a husband and wife in our hallway. He locked her out of their stateroom and she woke me up by screaming in the hallway at midnight. I opened the door to see what was going on and talked to her briefly and then called the front desk who sent security. I watched through the peephole for awhile and they took the guy away eventually.

 

Still better than the man who murdered his wife on a Princess Alaska cruise.

[CU64]

9 hours ago, jc foster said:

I once dealt with incidents such as this one and most much worst on a daily basis. Personally, I would have taken the cabin down grade  and  would have gotten as far away from this guy as possible.  Nothing is as important as your safety.   It sounds like the Princess security officers simply want to pacify both parties and then be on their way. Im sorry this happened to you.

Agreed. I would have moved myself away from them asap. Happy to be away from the noise and tension.

[chengkp75]

10 hours ago, sirclean said:

If you believe that the cruise line security did not take your concerns seriously, and as they indicated that this would be a crime in the uk, perhaps a report to the Department of Transportation will get more attention  (Be sure to CC a Princess corporate office and your travel agent if you used one. ) 

 

 

If the OP is a US citizen, if this happened in international waters, and if the US has claimed extra-territorial jurisdiction for this crime against one of its citizens, then and only then would the US government have any jurisdiction.  

9 hours ago, tothemall&beyond said:

This was literally assault and attempted battery.

Perhaps, perhaps not.  It all depends on the definition of those crimes in the flag state.

 

Now, having said that, this should have been investigated further, and it should have resulted in a talk with both the Senior Security Officer and the Staff Captain explaining what was done, why, and what your recourses are.  If you still felt that result was inadequate, then using both of those officers' names, and having gotten the Captain's name, I would have reported this to Princess corporate, as noted above, to the CEO, as well as to the Captain.

Edited April 25, 2022 by chengkp75

[ontheweb]

10 hours ago, tothemall&beyond said:

Why? She is no longer the top person at Princess: it's John Padgett now.

 

And John Padgett would have said you should have used your Medallion to solve the problem. 

[amajaa]

I am very surprised Princess didn’t take any action, perhaps it was because they couldn’t prove it but then again it sounds like the man admitted it. 
 

We have been on a few P & O Cruises where people have been removed from the ship at the next port and have to pay their own way home. Once we saw 2 youngish women causing a commotion in the theatre and apparently they must have caused more trouble later that night. The next morning we saw them being escorted off the ship with their luggage by an officer. Also heard reports of people being put under guard on the ship for doing not much more.  It was famously reported in the papers about two families got into a fight in the buffet and both families were removed from the ship at the next port. 
 

They should have taken your situation seriously after all this guy could hurt someone next time, I wonder if he was just obnoxious or had a few two many trying to get his money worth on the drinks package.  I actually think P & O would have removed him plus family or given him a really strict warning at the very least. 

[vjmatty]

5 hours ago, caribill said:

 

The dented door should be proof that it was more than a "he said, she said" situation.

 

(Unless they said it was a "he dented the door, she dented the door" situation.)

 

And the neighbor admitted he did it, saying "what else are you supposed to do when someone closes the door while you are talking"

[arizonaperson]

I believe the op posted this once they disembarked.Princess staff according to op asked if they wanted to move cabins,as they were 3 days into a 7 day cruise? I understand not wanting to move cabins.But either way definitely not a good feeling if security isn’t really going to do anything for the complaining passenger. 

My takeaway from this is -always call/ contact security,never get involved  with noisy cruise neighbors.

 

My general feeling is  “ people”  are becoming very crazy in society as of late.  

I Witnessed recently 2 separate screaming/ obscenity matches at a “ shopping” area not involving me on same day. ( people didn’t appear to know each other) Never have seen this.  I thought for sure a gun would be brandished,but thankfully not. I just wanted to go home & chill after all that.

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by arizonaperson

[voljeep]

3 hours ago, ontheweb said:

And John Padgett would have said you should have used your Medallion to solve the problem. 

yes - Crew Chat

[Daniel A]

7 hours ago, caribill said:

 

The dented door should be proof that it was more than a "he said, she said" situation.

 

(Unless they said it was a "he dented the door, she dented the door" situation.)

 

1 hour ago, vjmatty said:

 

And the neighbor admitted he did it, saying "what else are you supposed to do when someone closes the door while you are talking"

I'm not taking sides on this, but the dented door in and of itself is not sufficient evidence that the man put a dent in the door.  One would need to establish that the dent wasn't already there prior to the incident.  That door has most likely been there for 14 years.  The man's statement is clearly not a confession or acknowledgement that he damaged the door.  

 

OP says she never ran into the man again or heard him on his balcony.  There isn't any mention that the disruptive noise continued to be a problem for the remainder of the cruise, so maybe the actions the Princess staff took resolved the cause of the issue.  Certainly, the OP is entitled to file a complaint against the ship's staff, but I'm not sure what outcome she is really expecting.  These types of unfortunate situations are never handled to the complete satisfaction of either party.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Daniel A

[dfields1814]

You would think security would have seen what happened with all the security cameras they had. I would have also asked for a child abuse investigation.  

[sirclean]

5 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

15 hours ago, sirclean said:

If you believe that the cruise line security did not take your concerns seriously, and as they indicated that this would be a crime in the uk, perhaps a report to the Department of Transportation will get more attention  (Be sure to CC a Princess corporate office and your travel agent if you used one. ) 

 

 

If the OP is a US citizen, if this happened in international waters, and if the US has claimed extra-territorial jurisdiction for this crime against one of its citizens, then and only then would the US government have any jurisdiction.  

The idea of reporting the incident to the Department of Transportation is not to investigate the passengers, but to investigate Princess' actions or inactions.  I am certain that a letter From the DOT will trigger a more thorough investigation of the ships security decisions. 

[chengkp75]

11 minutes ago, sirclean said:

The idea of reporting the incident to the Department of Transportation is not to investigate the passengers, but to investigate Princess' actions or inactions.  I am certain that a letter From the DOT will trigger a more thorough investigation of the ships security decisions. 

Again, the DOT, the USCG, nor the FBI have any jurisdiction over Princess' security staff, so any letter from DOT would likely end up in the same place as the OP's letter to Princess.  The Captain is the legal authority onboard, he delegates authority to his security team, but his authority comes from the flag state, so any action or inaction on the security team's part is based on Bermudan or UK law, as these are the flag states for Princess, not the US DOT.

[chengkp75]

28 minutes ago, dfields1814 said:

I would have also asked for a child abuse investigation.

Under whose jurisdiction?  It certainly would not fall under US jurisdiction.

[Yehootu]

My wife's response:

1) I wouldn't answer the door once looking through peep hole, and call security

2) Open the door with phone recording butthead at the door. 

 

[sirclean]

Jurisdiction seems to be the question... 

 

"The Cruise Vessel Security and Safety Act (CVSSA) of 2010 prescribes security and safety requirements for most cruise ships that embark and disembark in the United States. The Act mandates that reports of criminal activity be reported to the Federal Bureau of Investigation. "

 

(b) VIDEO RECORDING.—
‘‘(1) REQUIREMENT TO MAINTAIN SURVEILLANCE.—The owner
of a vessel to which this section applies shall maintain a video
surveillance system to assist in documenting crimes on the
vessel and in providing evidence for the prosecution of such
crimes, as determined by the Secretary.

 

"‘(iv) the incident concerns a victim or perpetrator
who is a United States national on a vessel during
a voyage that departed from or will arrive at a United
States port."

 

 

Rather than Arm Chair Detective to out of hand determine why a complaint wont work, let the OP decide if writing the letter warrants the effort and let the Department of Transportation decide if it does or does not have jurisdiction.  IF the ship left a US port, or returns to one, it seems to me that they are covered by this legislation, regardless of the 'protection' of registering under a foreign flag. 

[JimmyVWine]

19 hours ago, KISS Kruiser said:

• I called Guest Services and they sent someone up to talk to me. 
• They also talked to him   
• I was told to go to Guest Services and make a complaint. 
• Guest Services typed up my complaint and called Jerry from Security to speak with me.  He told me I did the right thing reporting this
• Guest Services asked if I want to switch rooms 
• Later that night while going to the International Cafe Guest Services saw us and said they have been trying to reach us
• He was spoken to and told not to do it again. 
• He said maybe he could move us up to a mini suite. 
• He told me...if anything further happened either by me or the other passenger it would be dealt with. 

 

 

I'm going to take a different tack here as compared to those who "cannot believe that Princess didn't do anything."  The above accounting is not "nothing."  The passenger was spoken to and apparently the rest of the cruise went on without incident.  And the OP was offered an opportunity to physically distance from the situation.  This is a very good way for the cruise line to gauge just how serious the person filing the complaint thinks the situation is. Refusing the offer to move sets the expectations as to the perceived severity, like it or not.  If one complained about a clogged toilet and was offered a chance to move cabins, the likely result would be to move.  But by not moving here, Guest Services gets a sense of where this threat falls on the severity scale.  Put these things in your preferred order:  Clogged Toilet; Extended Balcony; Physical Safety.  Guest Services can only feed off of the complaining party's reaction.  If Extended Balcony is the highest priority, well...  And let's not overlook that the offending passenger was spoken to, and apparently nothing more came of it. GS is not looking to escalate.  Their job is the exact opposite.  And it appears that their efforts to de-escalate worked, unless this story has a different ending that wasn't shared.

[chengkp75]

8 minutes ago, sirclean said:

Jurisdiction seems to be the question... 

Many people believe that the CVSSA extends all their rights as US citizens to foreign flag cruise ships.  It does not, as poster "Aquahound", who is an investigator for the USCG, and deals with crimes on cruise ships, has affirmed in the past.  The CVSSA covers acts that happen in US waters, and acts that happen in international waters to a US citizen.  We don't know if the OP is a US citizen or not, but the comment about the act being illegal in the UK tends to support the idea that she is not.  Any act, even against a US citizen, if done in the territorial waters of another nation, falls under the jurisdiction of that country, and the US FBI can request interested party status, which means they can get information, but cannot perform any investigation.  And, if the port state does not care to intervene in an incident, then it falls to the flag state, again not the US.  And, the extra-territorial jurisdiction claimed by the US (crimes on the high seas against US citizens) only applies to a set of crimes, not all crimes.

 

The sections you quote, first off affirm that it only applies to US citizens, and also that the ship is only required to have video surveillance, and to provide that video evidence to the FBI, it does not say that the FBI will investigate those incidents (this is in many cases the "interested party" sharing of evidence I mention).

While you may think that leaving from a US port means that the CVSSA covers all the ships all the time, but you need to read the sections of the USC that are referenced in the Act, as defining what vessels "this act applies".  There is a reason the cruise lines flag in foreign countries. 

[chengkp75]

20 minutes ago, KISS Kruiser said:

My comments to the noisy kid on the balcony is no way warranted a response of yelling, cussing and violence from the father.  

Spot on.

[sirclean]

4 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

There is a reason the cruise lines flag in foreign countries. 

primarily to avoid US taxes and labor regulations (i.e. to save money).  Or am I missing something else?

 

Rhetorical question.

 

Writing a letter may get no where.  It may get a response similar to JimmyVWine, that security took appropriate action and the OP declined to move, and no other actions were required. 

 

It will cost the OP a few minutes time and a stamp. 

[KISS Kruiser]

3 minutes ago, JimmyVWine said:

And it appears that their efforts to de-escalate worked, unless this story has a different ending that wasn't shared.

Thank you.  It did work and there was no different ending.  All I wanted to know was if anyone had experienced anything like this and if so, how it was handled.  I've never had this happen before so had no idea.  My husband thinks the people quieted down for the rest of the cruise until the last day.  I now know how to handle it differently if it ever happens again.  

[JimmyVWine]

Just now, KISS Kruiser said:

Thank you.  It did work and there was no different ending.

From my perspective, you did everything right, and the problem went away.  Not sure why so many people think that GS fell down on the job here. 

[KISS Kruiser]

Just now, JimmyVWine said:

From my perspective, you did everything right, and the problem went away.  Not sure why so many people think that GS fell down on the job here. 

The one higher up at Guest Services was extremely rude and condescending but the front counter personnel and Jerry from Security were great.  I don't know what was said to the father but as people have pointed out it must have worked.  

[chengkp75]

8 minutes ago, sirclean said:

primarily to avoid US taxes and labor regulations (i.e. to save money).  Or am I missing something else?

Yes, taxes and labor costs are a major reason, but safety regulations, customs duties, and legal jurisdiction are other just as important considerations.