Early Disembarkment?

[sasand01]

Hello Friends!  Has anyone every done an early disembarkment at one of the ports?  My husband and I are looking to disembark on an Alaskan cruise in 2023 and get off the ship on the last day in Victoria, BC instead of getting off the ship the next day in Seattle.  My cruise consultant is saying that if we did that we could possibly be fined under the "Jones Act"?  Anyone know anything about this?  Thanks so much for any guidance here! 

Best, 

Sarah 

[sunny aurora]

This would not be a Jones act violation.   The port of Victoria would have to be set up so you could legally enter Canada.

[www3traveler]

No, you can not.  Violation of the 1886 Passenger Vessel service Act.  Jones Acct deals with cargo ships NOT passengers ships.

 

If you did leave: (1) you would have to pay a fine, (2) NCL would have to pay a fine AND (3) the Captain of your cruise ship would have to pay a fine.

 

Would that be worth it?

[julig22]

32 minutes ago, www3traveler said:

No, you can not.  Violation of the 1886 Passenger Vessel service Act.  Jones Acct deals with cargo ships NOT passengers ships.

 

If you did leave: (1) you would have to pay a fine, (2) NCL would have to pay a fine AND (3) the Captain of your cruise ship would have to pay a fine.

 

Would that be worth it?

How is getting off in Canada a violation of PVSA?  As far as I understand it, the issue is that it requires a foreign port stop - which would be fulfilled if a passenger gets off in Canada.  No fines if someone legally enters the country.

 

To answer the OP's question - it's something that you MIGHT be able to arrange through NCL.  The biggest hurdle is that there would have to be customs/immigration personnel available for processing. 

 

[casofilia]

@julig22

 

Not a PVSA problem BUT.

 

I think the problem is that the manifest would become incorrect before departure from Victoria; a missing passenger with all that entails not only on board but also with the Canadian Authorities.   Also the manifest would be incorrect on re-entry to Seattle.   That (those) would lead to a fine (fines) for NCL which they would pass on to the passenger.   If the passenger refused to pay I would imagine that that would be the passengers last cruise on NCL and maybe worse.

[julig22]

21 minutes ago, casofilia said:

@julig22

 

Not a PVSA problem BUT.

 

I think the problem is that the manifest would become incorrect before departure from Victoria; a missing passenger with all that entails not only on board but also with the Canadian Authorities.   Also the manifest would be incorrect on re-entry to Seattle.   That (those) would lead to a fine (fines) for NCL which they would pass on to the passenger.   If the passenger refused to pay I would imagine that that would be the passengers last cruise on NCL and maybe worse.

Note I said MIGHT be able to arrange through NCL. 

Of course if a passenger just walks off and doesn't return there are repercussions!  Besides fines, the person would have entered Canada illegally.  But that doesn't mean that NCL can't make arrangements with the port authority and immigration.

[Globaliser]

24 minutes ago, casofilia said:

I think the problem is that the manifest would become incorrect before departure from Victoria; a missing passenger with all that entails not only on board but also with the Canadian Authorities.   Also the manifest would be incorrect on re-entry to Seattle.

 

None of this is a problem if it's properly arranged with the ship, just as for immigration/customs to enter Canada. There are other domestic things that need to be sorted out, like closing the shipboard account, but these can easily be done by the ship too.

 

And the PVSA is definitely not a problem for what would become a Seattle --> Victoria one-way international voyage.

[jkrislc]

I've done this in Europe and looked into doing it this year with NCL, but you need to book first and then request permission. I would definitely recommend using a travel agent to handle this. We also didn't want to risk it this year given that the the policies are likely in flux as the COVID regulations change. As a result, we opted to do Vancouver and Victoria by car precruise returning to Seattle by ferry a couple of days before our cruise.

 

Note that the difference in fare between a one way and a roundtrip ferry to Seattle is only about $40, so you could always relax onboard when your ships visits Victoria and then take the ferry the day after disembarkation and do a couple of days in Victoria.

[bluesea777]

 

When passengers leave the cruise in a foreign port the cruise goes from “closed loop” to “open loop” and it might impact the other passengers on the ship. The US closed loop cruises, that is. 
 

I read on a thread a few years ago that one closed loop cruise from Tampa to Mexico became open loop when several ppl embarked in Mexico rather than Tampa for the round trip. 
 

Also we hardly ever hear about anyone disembarking the ship in Victoria freely here in CC. 
 

Closed —> Open loop = other passengers are subject to US Immigration checks upon the end disembarkation port i.e Seattle. 
 

So OP, please it is wise to continue with your cruise to Seattle and then take a ferry back to Victoria. 😁

 

 

[bookbabe]

Possibly.  Check with NCL, and then check again onboard ship.

 

My mom just did this on the Encore in May.  She lives a couple hours outside of Victoria, so it was silly for her to sail to Seattle to fly back the next day.  My brother came and met us at the port and drove her home.

 

We were in the Haven, so I’d gotten a Solid Maybe from the pre-cruise concierge desk, who told me to confirm with the Haven Concierge onboard.  The Haven Concierge talked to the Disembarkation Officer (I think that was her title) who did her magic and talked to (I assume) Canada Customs (CSBA).  Our instructions were to wait an hour or so, until whenever the crowds let up, before heading down to the gangway.  Our butler escorted us down, which made it easier, and then there were a few phone calls back and forth between various crew at the gangway and (I assume) the Disembarkation Officer.  My mom had one final facial scan done, and she was able to disembark.  Once in the terminal, Canada Customs recognized her name from a list they’d seen, and waved us through.  It was all much easier than I thought it would be.  And we didn’t hear her name paged as a missing passenger, so it seemed to work properly.

 

However, we are Canadian, and my mom’s relatively local to the port she was disembarking at.  There might be more formalities if you’re an American planning to visit the area for leisure.

 

(Editing to add that I’d gotten the same varied responses when I asked on CC about it, plus lots of guesses, but no actual recent experience that was relevant.  Thus the reason I say “maybe” because each person’s situation is slightly different, and even though my mom was able to, you might not be.  But the only people who will be able to say for sure are likely at NCL or on the ship.)

 

Edited June 10, 2022 by bookbabe

[www3traveler]

I can only tell you what happened on The Jewel last month.  A passenger from Vancouver, British Columbia board The Jewel for a West Coast Alaskan cruise.  The cruise ended in Vancouver on a Sunday as a Port of Call.  Even though she lived in Vancouver, she was NOT ALLOWED to disembark until Monday morning.  There is a long thread on this website about her adventure.

[bookbabe]

2 minutes ago, www3traveler said:

I can only tell you what happened on The Jewel last month.  A passenger from Vancouver, British Columbia board The Jewel for a West Coast Alaskan cruise.  The cruise ended in Vancouver on a Sunday as a Port of Call.  Even though she lived in Vancouver, she was NOT ALLOWED to disembark until Monday morning.  There is a long thread on this website about her adventure.

As I pointed out right above your post, the answer will be different for each individual person/cruise.  While my mom absolutely got off the Encore in Victoria on the Saturday night in May, this other person you mention was told no.  The only way to find out for sure 100% is to ask onboard once the cruise is underway.

[SeaShark]

2 hours ago, julig22 said:

How is getting off in Canada a violation of PVSA?  As far as I understand it, the issue is that it requires a foreign port stop - which would be fulfilled if a passenger gets off in Canada.  No fines if someone legally enters the country.

 

To answer the OP's question - it's something that you MIGHT be able to arrange through NCL.  The biggest hurdle is that there would have to be customs/immigration personnel available for processing. 

 

The PVSA requires a DISTANT foreign port...Canada does not meet that requirement as stated in the act.

 

The real question is why bring this up here when the cruise consultant already gave an answer? Do we not believe or trust the consultant (in which case a new one is needed), or are we unhappy with the answer and hoping to find a workaround to exploit?

[julig22]

9 minutes ago, SeaShark said:

The PVSA requires a DISTANT foreign port...Canada does not meet that requirement as stated in the act.

So you are saying that every Alaska cruise that starts/ends in Seattle and stops in Victoria does not meet the requirements.  NCL must have a whopping big bill for all those violations!

 

11 minutes ago, SeaShark said:

The real question is why bring this up here when the cruise consultant already gave an answer? Do we not believe or trust the consultant (in which case a new one is needed), or are we unhappy with the answer and hoping to find a workaround to exploit?

You must be joking.  You've been on this site since 2006 with almost 9k in posts and you advise someone to trust an answer from a pcc - especially one who said possibly fined under the Jones act which isn't even applicable.  Effectively the pcc said they didn't know - why shouldn't the OP continue to search for the actual real answer to their situation.

[sasand01]

Many thanks to you all for this valuable info!  My cruise consultant wasn't 100% so I figured I would ask our community for their experience!  

[hallux]

1 hour ago, julig22 said:

So you are saying that every Alaska cruise that starts/ends in Seattle and stops in Victoria does not meet the requirements.  NCL must have a whopping big bill for all those violations!

No - if the cruise becomes an "open jaw" or open loop cruise it requires a distant foreign port to be legal (Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean do not qualify).  Closed loop cruises just need a stop at a foreign port.

[GeezerCouple]

3 hours ago, bluesea777 said:

 

When passengers leave the cruise in a foreign port the cruise goes from “closed loop” to “open loop” and it might impact the other passengers on the ship. The US closed loop cruises, that is. 
 

I read on a thread a few years ago that one closed loop cruise from Tampa to Mexico became open loop when several ppl embarked in Mexico rather than Tampa for the round trip. 
 

Also we hardly ever hear about anyone disembarking the ship in Victoria freely here in CC. 
 

Closed —> Open loop = other passengers are subject to US Immigration checks upon the end disembarkation port i.e Seattle. 
 

So OP, please it is wise to continue with your cruise to Seattle and then take a ferry back to Victoria. 😁

 

 

 

Having new passengers get ON the ship mid-way is quite different than having someone get OFF early, with respect to US Immigrations and Customs.

 

The thing to do is to book the cruise and have a good travel agent ask about whether this can be arranged.  Some of that would depend upon the port situation where the "early disembarkation" is requested... do they have/can they arrange for their own Immigrations officials, etc.

 

GC

[chengkp75]

Lots of misinformation here.  While it is true that embarking in Seattle, and disembarking in Victoria makes the OP's cruise an "open jaw" cruise, the fact that it ends in a foreign port takes it out of the jurisdiction of the PVSA.  So, as far as the Jones Act/PVSA is concerned, this would be perfectly legal.  Now, due to covid regulations, nearly every cruise line has stopped allowing "downlining" (late embarkation and early disembarkation), so refusals may be due to this.

7 hours ago, GeezerCouple said:

Having new passengers get ON the ship mid-way is quite different than having someone get OFF early, with respect to US Immigrations and Customs.

Actually, it isn't.  The reason that CBP allows US citizens to cruise on a closed loop cruise with only a DL and birth certificate, and why they only have a cursory entrance exam when disembarking, is the fact that they have had the passenger manifest for several days during the cruise, and can screen the passengers over time.  When someone leaves a cruise early, the ship must submit a new passenger manifest to CBP, who then consider it to be a "new voyage" starting in this case in Victoria and going to Seattle.  This is now a foreign cruise, not a closed loop out of the US, and they can, and have, (the case mentioned was an attempt by NCL to "interport" a Tampa to Belize cruise (some pax cruised Tampa to Tampa, and some Belize to Belize)) require a more stringent interview with all passengers when the ship would return to homeport.  Even though the manifest may only be different by one or two names, and the vast majority of passengers have already been screened earlier in the cruise, they must now redo it for the new manifest.

[sasand01]

10 hours ago, hallux said:

You could always email the CruiseNext team for an answer right from them. cruisenext@ncl.com

 

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Lots of misinformation here.  While it is true that embarking in Seattle, and disembarking in Victoria makes the OP's cruise an "open jaw" cruise, the fact that it ends in a foreign port takes it out of the jurisdiction of the PVSA.  So, as far as the Jones Act/PVSA is concerned, this would be perfectly legal.  Now, due to covid regulations, nearly every cruise line has stopped allowing "downlining" (late embarkation and early disembarkation), so refusals may be due to this.

Actually, it isn't.  The reason that CBP allows US citizens to cruise on a closed loop cruise with only a DL and birth certificate, and why they only have a cursory entrance exam when disembarking, is the fact that they have had the passenger manifest for several days during the cruise, and can screen the passengers over time.  When someone leaves a cruise early, the ship must submit a new passenger manifest to CBP, who then consider it to be a "new voyage" starting in this case in Victoria and going to Seattle.  This is now a foreign cruise, not a closed loop out of the US, and they can, and have, (the case mentioned was an attempt by NCL to "interport" a Tampa to Belize cruise (some pax cruised Tampa to Tampa, and some Belize to Belize)) require a more stringent interview with all passengers when the ship would return to homeport.  Even though the manifest may only be different by one or two names, and the vast majority of passengers have already been screened earlier in the cruise, they must now redo it for the new manifest.

 

[SeaShark]

11 hours ago, julig22 said:

You must be joking.  You've been on this site since 2006 with almost 9k in posts and you advise someone to trust an answer from a pcc - especially one who said possibly fined under the Jones act which isn't even applicable.  Effectively the pcc said they didn't know - why shouldn't the OP continue to search for the actual real answer to their situation.

Reading comprehension is your friend...I never advised someone to trust an answer from a pcc, I ASKED if they were asking the already answered question here because of possible trust issues with the answer they already received.

 

If trust were a factor, I don't know that I'd advise someone to trust an answer received here. This place has no shortage of people who guess or assume as opposed to providing facts. Just read some threads...or ask a yes or no question...you get a wide variety of answers ( and they can't ALL be correct) and the asking party has no idea which answer is the correct one. Personally, I'd give my trust to someone trained before I'd give it to a stranger, but still I'd never advise someone else as to who to trust...that is something they have to decide as they are the at risk party when it comes to the answer(s).

 

As for the OP "continuing to search for the real answer"...how exactly will they know and have 100% confidence that what they are told at any point is the "real answer"? There are people here that GUARANTEED us that...based on their expert understanding of finances...that NCL would never survive the pandemic, that they would be bankrupt before they could sail again. Over on the Carnival board people were advising others to cancel their future Freedom bookings because the ship would be scrapped as a result of the fire (she has been repaired and is back to sailing). While the right information exists on CC, so does far more wrong information...how do you know which to trust?

[sasand01]

Really appreciate you all and your input here....and not trying to wreak havoc on any immigration procedures, we can certainly just return to Seattle.  The cruise we are taking is in 2023 so looking at options SUPER early 😉

Edited June 11, 2022 by sasand01

[phillygwm]

The issue I'd see is clearing Canadian customs, just as you'd need to clear US customs in Seattle had you stayed on board.  I don't know whether that is surmountable (i.e. would there be an agent waiting to clear you when you disembarked.)  I sort of doubt is since it isn't the terminus but, again, one of those things where it's better to ask NCL.

[sasand01]

2 minutes ago, SeaShark said:

Reading comprehension is your friend...I never advised someone to trust an answer from a pcc, I ASKED if they were asking the already answered question here because of possible trust issues with the answer they already received.

 

If trust were a factor, I don't know that I'd advise someone to trust an answer received here. This place has no shortage of people who guess or assume as opposed to providing facts. Just read some threads...or ask a yes or no question...you get a wide variety of answers ( and they can't ALL be correct) and the asking party has no idea which answer is the correct one. Personally, I'd give my trust to someone trained before I'd give it to a stranger, but still I'd never advise someone else as to who to trust...that is something they have to decide as they are the at risk party when it comes to the answer(s).

 

As for the OP "continuing to search for the real answer"...how exactly will they know and have 100% confidence that what they are told at any point is the "real answer"? There are people here that GUARANTEED us that...based on their expert understanding of finances...that NCL would never survive the pandemic, that they would be bankrupt before they could sail again. Over on the Carnival board people were advising others to cancel their future Freedom bookings because the ship would be scrapped as a result of the fire (she has been repaired and is back to sailing). While the right information exists on CC, so does far more wrong information...how do you know which to trust?

Thank you for your responses!  Someone like myself goes on CC to gather a community of answers, and we all interpret things differently, as you know!  In this cruise world (and post Covid travel world!!), information, as we all know changes by the day and I figured posing this question to my fellow cruisers was a place to start....my profile isn't up to date, but I've been cruising since my highschool graduation trip in 2000 and ever since I've tried to be as educated as possible when cruising, especially for the sake of my spouse and his family and mine!  I've worked in the corporate world and know that sometimes you will call a customer service line/or employee line for assistance and get 10 different answers based on who you speak with...and their experience, and what they know, and how they interpret their training and understanding of policies and procedures. A company like NCL has no many nuances to what they sell and how they sell it, their policies, their promos...always changing...we all know how this goes!  I appreciate this community so much and their willingness to bring so many different interpretations and experiences to the table.  

[Globaliser]

13 minutes ago, SeaShark said:

As for the OP "continuing to search for the real answer"...how exactly will they know and have 100% confidence that what they are told at any point is the "real answer"?

 

So far as the PVSA is concerned, is chengkp75's answer good enough? It only concerns transport that starts and ends in US ports. It does not apply to transport that starts in the US and ends in Canada.

 

How about getting it from the CBP itself? The attached file comes from this link on its own website: https://help.cbp.gov/s/article/Article-23?language=en_US - see pages 13-15.

ICP Pax Vessel Services Act Apr 2010.pdf

[njhorseman]

2 hours ago, Globaliser said:

ICP Pax Vessel Services Act Apr 2010.pdf 133.73 kB · 1 download

Here's the September 2019 updated version of that document:

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2019-Sep/PVSA-ICP.pdf