Just got off the Oosterdam in Venice and my wife had Covid on the cruise, it has become a nightmare

[terrydtx]

9 minutes ago, deck chair said:

Hi Terry!  What a story and monumental hassle.   Hassle is an understatement.    So, when is your next cruise???  Be well.

Deck Chair

Next June and it is NOT on Holland America.!

[broberts]

7 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

HAL fed us a huge lie when we were told my wife's passport was flagged so she could not fly home unit a negative test was given to the Italian Health.  This is perhaps the biggest lie of all for the staff on the

ship.

 

 

To be a lie the misinformation has to be knowingly given. I doubt HAL intentionally provided misinformation. On might criticize the company for not insuring employees were current, but accusing it of dishonesty is a little too much.

[broberts]

7 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

HAL fed us a huge lie when we were told my wife's passport was flagged so she could not fly home unit a negative test was given to the Italian Health.  This is perhaps the biggest lie of all for the staff on the

ship.

 

 

To be a lie the misinformation has to be knowingly given. I doubt HAL intentionally provided misinformation. On might criticize the company for not insuring employees were current, but accusing it of dishonesty is a little too much.

[terrydtx]

1 minute ago, broberts said:

 

 

To be a lie the misinformation has to be knowingly given. I doubt HAL intentionally provided misinformation. On might criticize the company for not insuring employees were current, but accusing it of dishonesty is a little too much.

Stop making excuses for HAL, the Oosterdam has been sailing from Italy all summer and we are not the first people to go through Covid off ship quarantine. If the staff didn't know the protocols for Italy then, they are quilty of total incompetence as well as. The ship's medical people asked for my wife's passport information before we got off the ship and when I asked why, I was told the "miss information" about her passport being flagged by the Italian Health Authority. I still believe we were deliberately "lied" to, just to get all of off the ship so that they could wash their hands with all 15 of us stranded souls.

[SFO Peter]

Thanks to the OP for posting.    This is very useful information.   My recent Aug 2022 Covid experience on Alaska cruise dictates that one should carry several Covid tests.   You can take them out of the box and place in plastic bag with the instructions.   Yes we were quarantined on board but once we tested negative we flew home with masks at disembarkation rather than stay in a quarantine hotel.   We made our own flight arrangements so we had to be creative to find our way home.  I am traveling with a 98 year old with Alzheimers.    And this is all the information I will provide.

 

Peter

[broberts]

22 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

Stop making excuses for HAL, the Oosterdam has been sailing from Italy all summer and we are not the first people to go through Covid off ship quarantine. If the staff didn't know the protocols for Italy then, they are quilty of total incompetence as well as. The ship's medical people asked for my wife's passport information before we got off the ship and when I asked why, I was told the "miss information" about her passport being flagged by the Italian Health Authority. I still believe we were deliberately "lied" to, just to get all of off the ship so that they could wash their hands with all 15 of us stranded souls.

 

I'm not making an excuse for HAL. The post I quoted accused HAL of dishonesty based on nothing more than receiving what you perceive to be incorrect information. I get that you are upset and frustrated, but I think you are letting anger get the better of sound judgement.

[terrydtx]

28 minutes ago, SFO PETER said:

Thanks to the OP for posting.    This is very useful information.   My recent Aug 2022 Covid experience on Alaska cruise dictates that one should carry several Covid tests.   You can take them out of the box and place in plastic bag with the instructions.   Yes we were quarantined on board but once we tested negative we flew home with masks at disembarkation rather than stay in a quarantine hotel.   We made our own flight arrangements so we had to be creative to find our way home.  I am traveling with a 98 year old with Alzheimers.    And this is all the information I will provide.

 

Peter

At least you were negative when you disembarked I hope you both had very mild cases like my wife had. We took 8 of the Government provided tests with us, 4 tests per box. They were all used by my wife and I after she first tested positive on August 31st. I used 4 of them to check myself while my wife was in quarantine on the. ship.

[albingirl]

This is such a sad saga.  Hope it all works out. It goes on and on.

[cruisequeen4ever]

Hooray for being home safely and now healthy! I know you’re very angry with HAL, but I honestly don’t believe they mean harm to their pax. They’re just given the protocols by corporate who are given the protocols by the Italian government. If the Italian government chooses not to abide by their own protocols, that’s their prerogative. HAL is just the messenger. I’m very glad Flight Ease took care of you, and you brought up a very good point about its merit during this time. 

[Guest ldtr]

3 hours ago, terrydtx said:

Stop making excuses for HAL, the Oosterdam has been sailing from Italy all summer and we are not the first people to go through Covid off ship quarantine. If the staff didn't know the protocols for Italy then, they are quilty of total incompetence as well as. The ship's medical people asked for my wife's passport information before we got off the ship and when I asked why, I was told the "miss information" about her passport being flagged by the Italian Health Authority. I still believe we were deliberately "lied" to, just to get all of off the ship so that they could wash their hands with all 15 of us stranded souls.

You seem to be going a long distance to blame everything on HAL.

 

I responded to you on Monday that private testing was allowed and you argued that they were not.

I sent you the references from Italian Health on policy, that included that private tests were allowed, and gave you the local number of the local health department office. A post you did not respond to, so no indication if you ever tried to confirm the policies.

 

You went ballistic in your criticism of HAL when it appears that the hotel did not know about testing and you did not get a call the first day about testing, which your were told would be on day 7. Had your TA spend hours trying to help you.  Then lo and behold on day 6 you got a call setting up the testing on day 7.  (considering that your wife was in quarantine and not exactly going anywhere so the call certainly came in time to meet the testing schedule.

 

Then that test was positive because the test was positive and you again went over board on things because they said you would be tested daily. Which was when I responded that you could do private tests and your responded that you could not (guess who was right on that one).

 

You also came back that your wife could not check out of the hotel without release from  public health.  Yet it certainly seems that you were able to since you got a private test and did not report it, yet were able to check out and go to the air port and fly home.

 

Seems like you spent far more energy and time venting about the quarantine, HAL and Italian public health then it would have taken actually checking out local sources on what was needed.  

 

Lots of drama, a lot of which was self generated.

 

Some erroneous information given, considering how fast local policies change, not surprising.  Also the policies that the cruise lines are operating under could in fact be different than for someone inside the country.  After all the cruise lines had to sign agreements with those countries in which they operate after the restart.  Not unusual for countries to have cruise lines operating under different rules than other tourists operating in country.

Edited September 9, 2022 by ldtr

[deck chair]

4 hours ago, terrydtx said:

Next June and it is NOT on Holland America.!

Hi   You may want to look at Cunard Line depending on your travel interests.

Deck Chair.

[Guest ldtr]

3 hours ago, broberts said:

 

 

To be a lie the misinformation has to be knowingly given. I doubt HAL intentionally provided misinformation. On might criticize the company for not insuring employees were current, but accusing it of dishonesty is a little too much.

I would hate to even try and estimate the number of times I have gotten incorrect information from a travel company (airline, hotel, cruise line, etc).  As with many other industries things change and it takes time for official information to work their way through the approvals.  Then you have the potential for confusion when someone asks about protocols (are shipboard protocols, the same as on land protocols, are the protocols the same this week as two months ago, are the protocols ones that the ship agreed to vs those for a casual traveler, does each hotel have all of the exact same information, what about all of the contractors involved).

 

But certainly if something breaks down or delayed in this entire line of communications it can only be because some lied (not).

 

A corporate employee can be fired if they go off script and give inaccurate information, but not if they relay the same information they have been given.

 

You can go to any number of travel related web sites and usually find outdated/incorrect information, especially since the rules be different as it is these days for a number of different travel categories in a number of different countries.  Look how variations we have had just in the US between modes of travel, local, state and federal jurisdictions.

 

To put it another way trust but verify applies to travel situations just as it does to nuclear weapons treaties.

[SJSULIBRARIAN]

Glad you are finally home. What an ordeal.

[Hlitner]

I will express some empathy to the plight of the OP.   While most folks have an opinion about this kind of thing, those who have not walked in the shoes of the OP (or at least been cruising/traveling) often have no clue as to how complicated things can get under COVID.  DW and I have cruised (twice in Europe) in the past year and fortunately did not test positive during any of the trips (or anytime else).  But we were well aware of the risks and problems that could ensue if we had tested positive.  In our case, after finishing a 27 day cruise (including multiple European ports) we found ourselves in Europe where we continued to travel (from Monte Carlo to Nice to Prague) for 3 weeks before flying home.  We had to comply with the COVID rules of France, Netherlands, Czech Republic and Poland during our independent land travel. And we needed a negative COVID test to fly home (May 2023).  We did spend some time considering our options if we had tested positive and were not able to fly back to the USA.  We would have been stuck in the Czech Republic, on our own, with no hotel reservations, etc.   That meant having to find a place to quarantine, managing to find a way to get food, and arranging for our own medical follow-up (we likely would have needed a fit to travel letter from a physician).

 

But many cruisers are not experienced independent travelers (we have decades of experience) and tend to depend on their cruise line or tour company when anything goes wrong.  I have often been surprised at the travel naivete of many fellow cruisers (this comes out in onboard conversations) when it comes to international travel.  The relatively simple task of arranging for a private COVID test in a foreign land (with language issues) can seem a daunting challenge to folks not used to independent travel when this kind of thing is just one more minor issue.   Consider all the folks you have met on cruises who are too frightened to go ashore on their own and only feel comfy if part of cruise line excursion!  Toss these kinds of folks off a ship and put them in quarantine (without a guide) and they are likely to feel lost, betrayed, depressed, etc.

 

When we were on our month long cruise in March-April, two of our onboard friends tested positive a couple of days before we arrived at Lisbon.  They had planned to stay on the ship another two weeks and debark in Monte Carlo, but because of Portuguese rules they were forced to debark in Lisbon and serve out a quarantine (of about 5 days) in a Lisbon hotel.  These folks were very experienced independent travelers so there was little cause to worry.  When they got off the ship they had not decided whether to try a catch up to the cruise, fly home, or spend some time in Europe...once they completed their short quarantine.  Seabourn (our cruise line at the time) did  get them a nice hotel room and would have helped arrange their flight home (or to catch the ship) but these folks likely handled everything on their own.   Many other cruisers, like the OP, would have likely been more inclined to rely on the cruise line which is generally not a good thing once you are ashore!

 

Hank

[cruisetravlr]

5 hours ago, terrydtx said:

Next June and it is NOT on Holland America.!

Good to know it won’t be HAL. Wouldn’t want to encounter so much negative energy when I’m trying to relax. 

[cccole]

2 hours ago, cruisetravlr said:

Good to know it won’t be HAL. Wouldn’t want to encounter so much negative energy when I’m trying to relax. 

And this thread is great advice to everyone traveling to know what the consequences are of a possitive test in the countries you visit.  They may even change after you have departed home.  It really is an issue that anyone traveling needs to monitor.  Yes, a TA, a cruise line, an airline have their policies.  Make sure you know the policy of the country/countries you are visiting and try not to blame someone else for not doing your homework.  Cherie 

[Mary229]

11 hours ago, SFO PETER said:

Thanks to the OP for posting.    This is very useful information.   My recent Aug 2022 Covid experience on Alaska cruise dictates that one should carry several Covid tests.   You can take them out of the box and place in plastic bag with the instructions.   Yes we were quarantined on board but once we tested negative we flew home with masks at disembarkation rather than stay in a quarantine hotel.   We made our own flight arrangements so we had to be creative to find our way home.  I am traveling with a 98 year old with Alzheimers.    And this is all the information I will provide.

 

Peter

I think one must always be prepared to manage changes on your own.  It is even more important now. Carry extra tests and bookmark some quality proctoring services.  Or do as we did, we found a private physician in a real medical office to administer a proper test. 
 

 

[LocoLoco1]

Carry your own TEST KITS, folks. 

[terrydtx]

Misinformation, erroneous details and misleading us on what to expect, to me they are all borderline lies. 

 

Here are the facts from what we were told and what the truth or reality was.

 

1) Oosterdam Guest services misinformation as given to us in writing:

You will be sent to a hotel and the front desk will arrange on shore covid testing.

What really happened:

The front desk knew nothing about setting up testing for us. We got off the ship on Sunday and on Monday my wife was contacted by an International Covid testing company.

 

2) Oosterdam Guest services misinformation:

You will be tested every day until you are negative covered by HAL:

What really happened:

After we were contacted by the International Testing company, we were told that HAL only paid them for the first test on day 7 and then on day 10 and 14 if the previous test was positive. Any tests on other days were 75 Euros to be paid by directly by us but would not be done in less than 40 hours after the last negative test.

 

3) Oosterdam Guest services misinformation

You cannot leave Italy to fly home until you are released by the testing company reporting to the Italian Health Authority. Your passports will be flagged by the Italian government as well

What really happened:

Not wanting to wait until day  9 or 10, we got our own private testing on day 8 and my wife was negative. I asked for a release form from the testing company so we could fly home. Was told this was not needed as no tests negative or positive are reported to the Italian Health Authority and all we needed to do was fly home. They said her passport was never "flagged" for having Covid. I was somewhat nervous when the next day we flew home and had to go through Italian passport control but not a word from them about the Covid quarantine and we breezed through to our departing flight.

 

Almost everything HAL and the Oosterdam guess service people told us was false, misleading or just not reality. The only thing that was true was we could contact HAL Flight Ease to rebook our flights home, if we used them for our air, at no extra charge and in the same class of service we originally booked. They did get us home business class on the same itinerary as what we originally booked.

 

We did take a number of Covid test kits with us and they were all used to make sure I was negative and to see where my wife was while she was in quarantine. The day we got the private testing for her, day 8 of quarantine, she used the last test to make sure she was negative before we paid for the private testing service.

 

[puppycanducruise]

Glad you are home.

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, terrydtx said:

Misinformation, erroneous details and misleading us on what to expect, to me they are all borderline lies. 

 

Here are the facts from what we were told and what the truth or reality was.

 

1) Oosterdam Guest services misinformation as given to us in writing:

You will be sent to a hotel and the front desk will arrange on shore covid testing.

What really happened:

The front desk knew nothing about setting up testing for us. We got off the ship on Sunday and on Monday my wife was contacted by an International Covid testing company.

 

2) Oosterdam Guest services misinformation:

You will be tested every day until you are negative covered by HAL:

What really happened:

After we were contacted by the International Testing company, we were told that HAL only paid them for the first test on day 7 and then on day 10 and 14 if the previous test was positive. Any tests on other days were 75 Euros to be paid by directly by us but would not be done in less than 40 hours after the last negative test.

 

3) Oosterdam Guest services misinformation

You cannot leave Italy to fly home until you are released by the testing company reporting to the Italian Health Authority. Your passports will be flagged by the Italian government as well

What really happened:

Not wanting to wait until day  9 or 10, we got our own private testing on day 8 and my wife was negative. I asked for a release form from the testing company so we could fly home. Was told this was not needed as no tests negative or positive are reported to the Italian Health Authority and all we needed to do was fly home. They said her passport was never "flagged" for having Covid. I was somewhat nervous when the next day we flew home and had to go through Italian passport control but not a word from them about the Covid quarantine and we breezed through to our departing flight.

 

Almost everything HAL and the Oosterdam guess service people told us was false, misleading or just not reality. The only thing that was true was we could contact HAL Flight Ease to rebook our flights home, if we used them for our air, at no extra charge and in the same class of service we originally booked. They did get us home business class on the same itinerary as what we originally booked.

 

We did take a number of Covid test kits with us and they were all used to make sure I was negative and to see where my wife was while she was in quarantine. The day we got the private testing for her, day 8 of quarantine, she used the last test to make sure she was negative before we paid for the private testing service.

 

1. The testing occurred on the date that it was scheduled to be done was it not?  The testing service did show up on day 7.  Did anyone else in the hotel indicate that no one showed up to test them?

 

Reality is that the testing service is responsible for conducting the test and showing up on the indicated dates.  The hotel provides the accommodations.  Clearly there is some degree on communications that had to occur since the testing service knew where you were.  So if the ship said that the front desk would arrange testing, they did not say that the front desk would involve you or coordinate with you is setting up testing.  

 

Bottom line you were contacted and testing conducted on the day indicated.

 

2. Ships on board protocols test everyday after the initial quarantine period is over, where the testing is done by ship personnel.  So likely some confusion between on board protocols vs off ship protocols.  The testing time frame you mentioned is not unusual, it is based upon probability for getting a negative result without excessive testing.  Bottom line is that HAL did pay for the test and would have scheduled and  paid for the tests on day 10 and 14.

 

Or as Italian public health  web site

 

The local health authority determines the type of test they will use and the pattern of testing"

 

You certainly argued when I told you on Monday that private testing was allowed, even it was stated on the Italian public health web site that it was allowed.

 

Did you ever call the local health department to find out what their requirements were?

 

3. Do you know that what they said is counter to what they are told by the government or is counter to their agreement with the government in order to saie out of Italy?  The US certainly had rules in place during Covid that existed but was never enforced and systems not put into place for enforcement.

 

Again did you ever call the local health department to actually find out what the rules are?

 

From day 1 you were attacking HAL, even before the day 7 test was conducted.  

[Guest ldtr]

Just in case anyone thinks that HAL is just winging it the following is from EU cruise ship guidelines (the bolding is mine).  Basically the plan HAL operates under when dealing with passengers going into quarantine must be defined and approved.  As such they cannot change on a whim.  Changes must be approved by local authorities, even if local rules have relaxed since the plans were approved.  

 

"For each cruise ship operating in the waters of an EU/EEA MS, a ship contingency plan/outbreak management plan for responding to a COVID-19 event should be prepared by the operating cruise line (see paragraph 6.2) and agreed to with the competent authority of the home port, in order to be reviewed and ensure interoperability with the port public health emergency contingency plan. It is recommended that both the cruise ship and the port designate a single point of contact to facilitate the coordination. In particular, before cruise lines resume operations in a port of an EU/EEA MS, competent authorities in the EU/EEA MS and ship operators should ensure that the following conditions are met and have been fully addressed in this cruise ship contingency plan/outbreak management plan. The plan should cover any possible scenario including evacuation to hospitals for passengers and crew in need of care, and shore facilities for isolation and quarantine of COVID-19 cases and close contacts. It is advised that these are formalised in a written agreement between the cruise company and the authorities of the ports (home port or contingency port or transit port) to be visited, describing all the detailed arrangements agreed upon."

 

https://www.healthygateways.eu/Portals/0/plcdocs/EUHG_Operational_guidelines_CoV_April2022.pdf?ver=2022-04-06-152525-527

Edited September 10, 2022 by ldtr

[JesseLivermore]

On 9/9/2022 at 5:18 AM, Sea42 said:

Our FCC was just an apology gesture from HAL for our May cruise on the Volendam being canceled so they could provide housing for Ukrainian refugees. All of the money that we had paid for that cruise was refunded to us. We just won't be using the extra FCC that they issued.

ahhh. I would use it for a quick "local" cruise close by home,  OP's experience is with a stringent country (If not the strictest given their C19 experience)

[Sea42]

5 hours ago, JesseLivermore said:

ahhh. I would use it for a quick "local" cruise close by home,  OP's experience is with a stringent country (If not the strictest given their C19 experience)

Yeah, I'll wait until the end of the year and see how things are going. Maybe something for the spring or fall in Europe. Winter vacation plans are already set.

[askworldtraveler]

The Joys and the riisks

 

I am responsible for proper preperations, domestic and international.

Visas, medications, flights, back ups, travel documents..... 

 

I know where I'm going

 

I know the rules that a country/city/region and business may have.

 

I know anything can change, at any time, for a million reasons.

 

I know how to find translations 

 

I recognize the person I'm speaking with may not have current information, have.  little practical knowledge.  

 

At the end of the day, I have to take care of myself and be prepared.  

 

2 weeks from now I'm getting on a HAL ship, first cruise in over 2 yearsm planning to do all the things I enjoy, leaving the ship healthy.  If not, I'll be prepared.  (i Hope). 

 

Safe Healthy Travels everyone - 

 

I was stuck overseas on 9/11.

I've been stuck in a remote part of the globe on what should have been a few days turned into 10. 

I've had a flight canceled for 12 days straight and the goat they sacrificed on the runway failed solve the issue.

I had a 14 day honeymoon booked on one boat - split into two different boats - having to share a cabin with 2 crew.