Greece, so disappointed,

[milepig]

Just off the Legend. Food improved, same great crew, all good on that account.

 

But the destinations were so not windstar.  I'll just mention two. Santorini and Mykanos.  Both were overcrowded with multiple mega ship to the point of disaster. Kusadashi was almost as bad although we did have views of the Azamara next door where people were running around naked.

 

What happened to the old Windstar that was proud of seeking out off the beaten path ports.  I may as well have been on a megaship. Even the tours seemed like no one even tried.

Edited September 23, 2022 by milepig

[Strenz]

We were on the Star in 2013 Istanbul Athens, Santorini and Mykonos were a mess then as well as Rhodes. Massive amounts of tourism. Kusadashi/ Ephesus, Bodrum and sailing through the Dardanelles great. I think it is a sign of the times, times have changed. We are off on 9/28, Wind Surf 10/6, we have heard Italy has been crazy. We will see. I think WS should find other remote lovely ports in Greece, there are so many of them. Those three are simply ruined by over tourism. We have stayed away from the WS Greek ports because generally 2 of those ports are always included. Since we only cruise with WS I would like to go back to Greece. We really like the sailing ships better than the motors. Hope you still had a good time. Happy Sailing.

[Barrycat]

Just a couple of observations

- It should be no surprise that Mykonos and Santorini were crowded in mid September

-My guess is that any Greek island cruise that doesn’t include those two islands would be a gamble for a cruise line.

-In my experience, with a bit of research there are some little known worthwhile sites and things to do even on these very popular islands.

Unfortunately with the major cruise lines ordering new and bigger ships at a rapid pace boutique cruise lines like Windstar are going to have to work harder to find the kind of destinations that makes them unique.

 

[Host Jazzbeau]

Don't forget how many interesting ports are not available for cruising at this time (Saint Petersburg, the entire Black Sea, much of Asia) – that has clustered 'all the ships at sea' in the Mediterranean!

[Strenz]

Barry at, I understand it with Mykonos and Santorini and visitors. In all the travels I have done I do not have to see and do what the masses do because my interests are so different. It was very difficult to find that nook on those two islands. Venice for example it can be a nightmare or walk over the next few bridges enchantment. Happy Sailing

[marinaro44]

Must have been one of those infamous charters on Azamara.🥳

[MNgardens]

Milepig- I agree completely. We are just off the Surf 10 day Athens round trip.  While we did not have the crowding that you had, those two islands are just overrun with shops aimed at tourist dollars. 

 

In 2007 my family did a 7 night Istanbul-Athens cruise that did not stop at Mykonos, Rhodes, or Santorini.  It was a much nicer introduction to the Greek islands and one could feel like you were seeing daily life.  There are so many picturesque islands beyond those three.  These small ships could really take advantage of their size and bring passengers to unique destinations.

[milepig]

12 hours ago, Barrycat said:

Just a couple of observations

- It should be no surprise that Mykonos and Santorini were crowded in mid September

-My guess is that any Greek island cruise that doesn’t include those two islands would be a gamble for a cruise line.

-In my experience, with a bit of research there are some little known worthwhile sites and things to do even on these very popular islands.

Unfortunately with the major cruise lines ordering new and bigger ships at a rapid pace boutique cruise lines like Windstar are going to have to work harder to find the kind of destinations that makes them unique.

 

I do understand, but I think there is a market for small places, and if WS would market it properly with a notice "Why we are skipping the usual ports..." Maybe :small ships, off the beaten path, avoid the crowds, experience unspoiled destinations." and add " We truly are 180 degrees from the ordinary,  In Tahiti they have it is spades! That is the WS I love and remember and they seem to have strayed. I'd grab it.  In terms of the crowds, it was impossible to get anything out of town without wading tyhrough the mass of humanity all the was around the port to get there, and then back.Santorini was ever worse the line to go up the cable car was 90 minutes, and back down almost as long, and couldn't even look at a shop, the crowd just herded along,  Everyone was complaining and said thier day was ruined.  Yes, outside down in the country was great, but is was the getting there part. Borum and Kushadadi were better.  I had great morning walks both days.

Edited September 24, 2022 by milepig

[avalong]

I always like to check how many ships are going to be in port before I book a cruise. I have used cruisemapper.com, but I believe there are other sites. Mykonos and Santorini are problematic, that's for sure.

[Host Jazzbeau]

28 minutes ago, avalong said:

I always like to check how many ships are going to be in port before I book a cruise. I have used cruisemapper.com, but I believe there are other sites. Mykonos and Santorini are problematic, that's for sure.

I do too, but it has become much less helpful before booking because there are so many itinerary changes as cruises get closer.  Closer in, while planning shore activities, the information is more reliable.  If a port looks crowded, we either look for a private tour to the hinterlands or go with the safety of a ship's tour (DIY is no fun when you can hardly move...)

[zentraveler]

Oh my. We are on Star Legend October 2 for 8 nights and going to both Santorini and Mykonos and I am wondering if we even want to do a tour. I spent 6 weeks in Turkey and Greece in 1985 and about a week on Santorini (husband has not been). I certainly don't expect it to be the same, but this sounds less than inspiring. Can anyone tell me where we dock in those island? [I was last there on a generic Greek ferry that docked down hill from the main town/village.]

[milepig]

7 hours ago, zentraveler said:

Oh my. We are on Star Legend October 2 for 8 nights and going to both Santorini and Mykonos and I am wondering if we even want to do a tour. I spent 6 weeks in Turkey and Greece in 1985 and about a week on Santorini (husband has not been). I certainly don't expect it to be the same, but this sounds less than inspiring. Can anyone tell me where we dock in those island? [I was last there on a generic Greek ferry that docked down hill from the main town/village.]

for us both were tendered. Santorini with a local tender which was very much throw on the pax. 

[BklynBorn47]

@ Milioeg We probably met on the Legend. My husband was the guy with the freak accident on the hot tub deck - 12 stitches in his foot - Excellent medical staff!

 

So we cancelled our Santorini &Mykanos tours. We've been there before in quieter times. I did walk around Mykanos on my own in the afternoon. 

 

I did the Ephasus & ancient houses without Joe but he did enjoy the dinner by the library ^ rode the "disabled" bus which limited his walking.

 

I did comment that there was no need to herd us to a rug demo in Kushadasi which limited our time at Ephasus (our 3rd visit) but still I would have preferred the site time.

 

Now we are in Marseille to board an MSC ship - more Med & a TA home via Caribbean. Our first MSC since the timing was right. 

 

Next Windstar - the Surf in December

[6rugrats]

I also was very disappointed in Santorini & Mykonos.  We booked private tours which were a bit better, but found the islands over rated and very, very crowded.

[sb44]

We had wonderful times on all of these islands. Had private guides through a tour agency that we use all the time. Avoided the crowds and enjoyed each island for the places and sight unique to Greece.

[flygod]

The problem is life has been tough at the end of the pandemic and many people in Europe have decided to/had no alternative to holiday in Europe. 

When planning summer 2022 last autumn, the USA was still closed/still required vaccinations and expensive PCR tests. And the Far East is still a basket case. So people waited until the Spring to book, and went for things closer to home: ie Greece and the rest of the Med.

 

Cruise lines have adapted their schedules to where the market is too - not helped by the war in Ukraine!

 

Finally, the most crowded places are the most popular places - the places where people want to go, so the destinations the cruise lines want to advertise. 

Me, I have just come back from Greece - five wonderful days in Hydra, a car/scooter/bicycle free island where everything is carted around by donkeys and water taxis buzz round the port. Athens was then a zoo, you could walk on people's heads at the Acropolis!

I then had two days in Albania - the capital Tirana was an amazing place. A bit like East Berlin 40 years ago, but with avocado on toast! Not sure how else to describe it. But if Windstar said they were visiting Albania instead of "Game of Thrones" Dubrovnik in nearby Croatia, I'll bet they wouldn't get flooded with bookings.

 

Looking forward to my 18 days in Tahiti in 2023!

Edited October 12, 2022 by flygod
spelling correction

[new_cruiser]

We were luckier on our Windstar Cruise in August, Neither Santorini nor Mykonos had mega ships in. As far as I recall, none of the ports other than Athens had a mega ship in. 

[avalong]

21 hours ago, flygod said:

The problem is life has been tough at the end of the pandemic and many people in Europe have decided to/had no alternative to holiday in Europe. 

When planning summer 2022 last autumn, the USA was still closed/still required vaccinations and expensive PCR tests. And the Far East is still a basket case. So people waited until the Spring to book, and went for things closer to home: ie Greece and the rest of the Med.

 

Cruise lines have adapted their schedules to where the market is too - not helped by the war in Ukraine!

 

Finally, the most crowded places are the most popular places - the places where people want to go, so the destinations the cruise lines want to advertise. 

Me, I have just come back from Greece - five wonderful days in Hydra, a car/scooter/bicycle free island where everything is carted around by donkeys and water taxis buzz round the port. Athens was then a zoo, you could walk on people's heads at the Acropolis!

I then had two days in Albania - the capital Tirana was an amazing place. A bit like East Berlin 40 years ago, but with avocado on toast! Not sure how else to describe it. But if Windstar said they were visiting Albania instead of "Game of Thrones" Dubrovnik in nearby Croatia, I'll bet they wouldn't get flooded with bookings.

 

Looking forward to my 18 days in Tahiti in 2023!

There are no BICYCLES in Hydra? Really? That seems extreme.

[Second seating]

On our August SeaDream visit to Mykonos we were very lucky the only other ship in port that day was the Wind Surf!

Second seating

[milepig]

I guess part of my thoughts were that WS has a high number of frequent cruisers. I'll some some itineraries like "greece, untraveled islands" would be very popular.

[dandee2]

Yes, what happened to "180 from ordinary" ?

[flygod]

On 10/13/2022 at 7:29 PM, avalong said:

There are no BICYCLES in Hydra? Really? That seems extreme.

 

Yep! Just donkeys and people. And water taxis.

 

To be fair, the houses are so close together, there's no room for bicycles. Same with the paths - no room for bikes if people are walking.

It is incredible just how relaxing it is! Everyone at the same pace.

[CptBoatface]

Went in 1980. Hydra was totally cool

[js2x]

On 9/23/2022 at 10:26 AM, Strenz said:

We were on the Star in 2013 Istanbul Athens, Santorini and Mykonos were a mess then as well as Rhodes. Massive amounts of tourism. Kusadashi/ Ephesus, Bodrum and sailing through the Dardanelles great. I think it is a sign of the times, times have changed. We are off on 9/28, Wind Surf 10/6, we have heard Italy has been crazy. We will see. I think WS should find other remote lovely ports in Greece, there are so many of them. Those three are simply ruined by over tourism. We have stayed away from the WS Greek ports because generally 2 of those ports are always included. Since we only cruise with WS I would like to go back to Greece. We really like the sailing ships better than the motors. Hope you still had a good time. Happy Sailing.

We only sail on Windstar and Seadream. We did a similar voyage on Seadream in August and, because that ship is the size of the original Windstar ships, the captain was at least able to flip the itinerary so that our stop in Mykonos was on a less crowded day. We did not stop in Santorini. We are about to embark on Star Breeze, and I am hoping that the ship still feels small...

[Misty Morning]

1 hour ago, js2x said:

 We are about to embark on Star Breeze, and I am hoping that the ship still feels small...

js2x,

 

We were on the Star Pride in November and I had similar apprehensions having sailed on the pre stretch ships.  Well I can tell you after one day, there was no difference, it was the same as before but just better with a much nicer, cleaner yacht. The extra and larger dining venues, the larger deck, gym, spa all help keep people all over the ship so it still feels small.  Maybe you can feel the extra 100pax on a cold weather itinerary when everybody wants to be in the Yacht Club, but on a Caribbean one like we did, no issues