Rogue Wave Hits Viking Ship

[pete_coach]

One person died and four were injured when a massive wave smashed into an Antarctic cruise ship during a storm as it sailed off the southernmost tip of South America, the company said Thursday.

The Viking Polaris cruise ship was sailing Wednesday toward Ushuaia in Argentina — the main starting point for expeditions to Antarctica — when there was "a rogue wave incident," a representative of the Viking cruise company said in a statement

 

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cruise-ship-death-rogue-wave-kills-passenger-antarctic-viking-polaris/

[Twitchly]

There’s quite a bit of discussion about this over in the Expeditions thread. Tragic.

 

 

[WNcruiser]

1 hour ago, pete_coach said:

One person died and four were injured when a massive wave smashed into an Antarctic cruise ship during a storm as it sailed off the southernmost tip of South America, the company said Thursday.

The Viking Polaris cruise ship was sailing Wednesday toward Ushuaia in Argentina — the main starting point for expeditions to Antarctica — when there was "a rogue wave incident," a representative of the Viking cruise company said in a statement

 

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cruise-ship-death-rogue-wave-kills-passenger-antarctic-viking-polaris/

Already posted yesterday, just a couple topics down the page. 

 

Edited December 2, 2022 by WNcruiser

[OnTheJourney]

2 hours ago, Twitchly said:

There’s quite a bit of discussion about this over in the Expeditions thread. Tragic.

 

Hate to say it, but this takes me right back to March '19 with being on the Sky, only this is far worse since there was a fatality. Likely wouldn't have happened had the zodiac incident not occurred. Just hearing about broken windows and water coming in brought it all back. Poor Torstein...probably thinking, 'here we go again...' 

Edited December 2, 2022 by OnTheJourney

[LibertyBella]

It appears the ship windows were not built to withstand that type of weather.

 

This incident raises a red flag for travel to areas with extreme conditions.  There is a major difference between pleasure cruising and adventure travel, and much more serious preparation should have been undertaken.

[OnTheJourney]

37 minutes ago, LibertyBella said:

much more serious preparation should have been undertaken.

Point well taken, but I'm sure Viking did their homework when they designed the Polaris. A rogue wave is not something one can easily plan for I'd think. Luck of the draw in how and where it hits the ship. That said, rest assured I do share your concern, given that I still have some reservations - despite all that has been said about it here and elsewhere - as to what should or perhaps should not have taken place relative to the Viking Sky incident. 

Edited December 2, 2022 by OnTheJourney

[Mittens101]

1 hour ago, OnTheJourney said:

Hate to say it, but this takes me right back to March '19 with being on the Sky, only this is far worse since there was a fatality. Likely wouldn't have happened had the zodiac incident not occurred. Just hearing about broken windows and water coming in brought it all back. Poor Torstein...probably thinking, 'here we go again...' 

what happened on the sky?

[Jim Avery]

57 minutes ago, LibertyBella said:

It appears the ship windows were not built to withstand that type of weather.

 

This incident raises a red flag for travel to areas with extreme conditions.  There is a major difference between pleasure cruising and adventure travel, and much more serious preparation should have been undertaken.

What is the basis for "it appears the ship windows were not built to withstand.....?  I have complete confidence having owned a small shipyard and worked as a ship master for years that Viking ships are designed by fully qualified marine architects, built in fully qualified shipyards, and inspected at every stage by classification surveyors in addition to the shipyard's inspectors and Viking's own inspectors.  Just as the chef inspects the veggies and meats that come onboard, every part arriving at the shipyard for these vessels were inspected by one entity or another or all of them.  You want a complicated business?  Build ships designed for passenger service.  As to "this type of weather", this is the cause of many deaths at sea and are no more, actually less, predictable than tornadoes on land.  

[tgh]

While Jims comments above reflect a lifetime commitment to his craft, there is real doubt about modern finite element analysis and designing products to meet certain performance  criteria..and not one inch more….
This new ship may require reclassification or modification to meet contemporary safety standards.
Time will tell

[Heidi13]

1 hour ago, LibertyBella said:

It appears the ship windows were not built to withstand that type of weather.

 

This incident raises a red flag for travel to areas with extreme conditions.  There is a major difference between pleasure cruising and adventure travel, and much more serious preparation should have been undertaken.

 

I have seen seas in storm force winds, buckle 1" thick steel plate, as if it was paper. The power of the seas is well beyond comprehension, if you have not actually experienced it. The power of a Rogue Wave is significantly higher than normal heavy weather and has resulted in a number of ships suffering significant structural damage, up to including total loss.

 

While the windows are substantial, they are clearly not designed for this very rare event. To survive that type of impact the the thickness would probably need to be measured in feet, which is clearly impracticable. However, using risk management techniques, while the consequence is clearly significant, the probability is very low. However, they will have met current Flag State and Class requirements.

 

We discussed the risks of Expedition cruising to the furthest reaches of the World a number of months ago. Yes, these are not Caribbean or meddy cruises. Similar to the winter season Northern Lights cruises in the North Atlantic, they carry additional risk from weather, and other factors.

 

Passengers interested in these types of cruises should be responsible for knowing the risk, but I am disappointed that Viking do not publish the potential risks of Expedition cruises, which is not just limited to weather, as remoteness is also an issue, as is using the various toys available on the Viking ships - RHIB's, submarine and kayaks. Looking at the big picture, I also note that over the years, many of these cruises have been completed without incident, and ships before and after Polaris crossed Drake Passage without encountering the same wave.

 

With respect to serious preparation, I doubt there is much more the cruise lines can do other than be upfront with the potential risks. With respect to pax, most can probably spend more time on research on what is involved and the potential risks. Personally, I am comfortable in RHIB's, as I have used them for many years and know the risks. Sitting on the collar is a No_No. Using the kayaks is not something I would even consider due to the water temperature, should you overturn. I probably wouldn't sign-up for the submarine, as a mariner, I prefer to remain on the surface.

[OneSixtyToOne]

1 hour ago, Mittens101 said:

what happened on the sky?

This

[Mittens101]

1 minute ago, OneSixtyToOne said:

This

Oh dear I vaguely remember when that happened. With all I’ve seen and experienced recently with cruising I’m really starting to think about how I spend my vacations. 

[Heartgrove]

The affected staterooms appear to be in the "Nordic Balcony" category on Deck 2. These have a movable top pane that lowers to allow "al fresco" viewing. Think "Infinite Veranda" like Celebrity Edge. Perhaps the unfortunate circumstances may have something to do with this configuration, and the need for more freeboard. Just a thought.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2022 by Heartgrove

[CILCIANRQTS]

27 minutes ago, Heartgrove said:

The affected staterooms appear to be in the "Nordic Balcony" category on Deck 2. These have a movable top pane that lowers to allow "al fresco" viewing. Think "Infinite Veranda" like Celebrity Edge. Perhaps the unfortunate circumstances may have something to do with this configuration, and the need for more freeboard. Just a thought.

 

 

 

 

Funny - other cruise ships have steel “hull balconies” as high as Deck 8 to add protection from the sea, but this ship appears to have windows on Deck 2 that open, despite being designed for extreme weather locations.

Just seems odd…

[donaldsc]

Rogue waves can occur anywhere.  Check these out -

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2010/03/rogue_waves_kill_two_on_medite.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-baoQQAeM3w

https://buffalonews.com/news/cruise-ship-was-hit-by-a-rogue-wave/article_317fef4e-1c00-5057-9815-

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/19/nyregion/landfall-in-manhattan-after-a-70foot-wave.html

 

DON

[LibertyBella]

I've been on Cunard during a hurricane and on a cold transatlantic crossing, and just cruised with them again this Summer.  I certainly felt safer with my metal hull balcony rather than having a large floor to ceiling glass picture window (that opens?!) my only protection from the elements.

 

I know for a fact Cunard liners have been hit by rogue waves various times, so they do think about that possibility. 

 

Just came back from a trip to Iceland a few days ago--it was interesting to see all the houses built of corrugated metal so they can withstand rain, cold, snow, volcanos, fires, earthquakes, and fires.  Yes, preparation for disaster is as equally important as preparation for enjoyment.

[LouChamp]

Aloha.  We have cruised the drake passage but on Princess.  The Princess ship was much larger with a higher line of steel. Cruised over Christmas, Hanukkah and New Years and passed through the Drake Passage. My parents did the same cruise on Holland America. It was rough. While not a naval architect I think Viking should have used one of their larger ships as in hindsight they should have known the risk. Prayers for those impacted and especially for the lady who died and her family.

[chengkp75]

12 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

I have seen seas in storm force winds, buckle 1" thick steel plate, as if it was paper. The power of the seas is well beyond comprehension, if you have not actually experienced it. The power of a Rogue Wave is significantly higher than normal heavy weather and has resulted in a number of ships suffering significant structural damage, up to including total loss.

Well said, Andy.  Scientists have stated that a "normal" breaking wave (not one storm driven) can exert up to 6000 pounds of force per square inch against a surface.  I don't know the window size, but let's say it is 24" square.  That equates to 1700 tons of force, just on the window.  That is very close to the breaking tensile strength of tempered glass, regardless of thickness.

12 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

While the windows are substantial, they are clearly not designed for this very rare event. To survive that type of impact the the thickness would probably need to be measured in feet, which is clearly impracticable. However, using risk management techniques, while the consequence is clearly significant, the probability is very low. However, they will have met current Flag State and Class requirements.

Absolutely.  As you say, a wave like this could bend the steel bulkhead around the glass and the entire glass and frame come out.  You cannot build anything that will never fail, you merely reduce the probability and the severity as much as possible.

 

And, the Viking Polaris is built to the latest regulations, specifically for operations in polar waters.

Edited December 3, 2022 by chengkp75

[Twitchly]

14 hours ago, Mittens101 said:

Oh dear I vaguely remember when that happened. With all I’ve seen and experienced recently with cruising I’m really starting to think about how I spend my vacations. 

I understand. But out of the thousands of cruises (or flights or car trips) going on at any given time, only a tiny fraction make the news. The other 99.99% are thankfully uneventful. 

[Heidi13]

3 hours ago, LouChamp said:

Aloha.  We have cruised the drake passage but on Princess.  The Princess ship was much larger with a higher line of steel. Cruised over Christmas, Hanukkah and New Years and passed through the Drake Passage. My parents did the same cruise on Holland America. It was rough. While not a naval architect I think Viking should have used one of their larger ships as in hindsight they should have known the risk. Prayers for those impacted and especially for the lady who died and her family.

 

The IMO Polar Code requires vessel operating in high latitude to have Polar Ice Class, with the Viking Expedition ships being PC6, if memory is correct.

 

I'm not aware that Viking's Ocean ships have Polar Ice classification, so cannot operate in those waters. Your Princess ships are also not Polar Ice classified, so can no longer cruise to Antarctica. I don't follow IMO changes that closely any more, but I believe the Polar Code came into force about 2018, so your Princess cruise was probably a few years ago.

[Kamfish642]

16 hours ago, tgh said:

While Jims comments above reflect a lifetime commitment to his craft, there is real doubt about modern finite element analysis and designing products to meet certain performance  criteria..and not one inch more….
This new ship may require reclassification or modification to meet contemporary safety standards.
Time will tell

Design specifications for any structure or vessel involving public safety need to be periodically evaluated and updated as needed.  This may involve retiring or modifying older vessels and impact specifications for new vessels.  Of course, you cannot design for every contingency, but design based on event probability in order to economically stay viable.

Edited December 3, 2022 by Kamfish642
Entere3d too early.

[Heidi13]

16 hours ago, tgh said:

While Jims comments above reflect a lifetime commitment to his craft, there is real doubt about modern finite element analysis and designing products to meet certain performance  criteria..and not one inch more….
This new ship may require reclassification or modification to meet contemporary safety standards.
Time will tell

 

The marine industry has implemented changes to safety standards from the learnings of numerous incidents. The learnings are included in SOLAS, Classification Society rules, etc which govern to design.

 

Therefore, if any changes are warranted, it will apply to all future vessels and based on any grandfathering, to existing vessels probably at the next, or future special survey.

[duquephart]

The inevitable lawsuit will no doubt address the suitability of the ship for the circumstances.

[LouChamp]

46 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

The IMO Polar Code requires vessel operating in high latitude to have Polar Ice Class, with the Viking Expedition ships being PC6, if memory is correct.

 

I'm not aware that Viking's Ocean ships have Polar Ice classification, so cannot operate in those waters. Your Princess ships are also not Polar Ice classified, so can no longer cruise to Antarctica. I don't follow IMO changes that closely any more, but I believe the Polar Code came into force about 2018, so your Princess cruise was probably a few years ago.

Yes You are correct it was in 2008-2009. I appreciate your input as I did not know this. I am reading with interest this thread but sad that someone died and others were injured. Thank you again! 

[Sunflower & The Scientist]

16 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

Passengers interested in these types of cruises should be responsible for knowing the risk, but I am disappointed that Viking do not publish the potential risks of Expedition cruises, which is not just limited to weather, as remoteness is also an issue, as is using the various toys available on the Viking ships - RHIB's, submarine and kayaks.

I think this is a good point. We are devout Viking cruisers and will continue sailing with them, but from being on Octantis, I do not think enough information regarding possible risk was given.