Music walk chases us away from HAL

[TexasBrit]

We are recently off NS, our first HAL cruise, and have to agree with several of the posts here about the Music Walk. It is not a concept that works for us.

We like music of all types but putting everything together in the same location is not ideal. Having the RS room and the BonB across from each other means they have to alternate sets. And the RS band was extremely loud, even from a distance. Can't imagine what it must have been closer to the stage. It could be heard in the casino one deck up with no problem.

There is no music elsewhere on the ship at this time so this results in very crowded rooms with difficulty in finding a seat/table when coming from dinner after 8 PM.

The BB King band was good with two good singers, although it was more jazz and pop rather than blues. The Billboard musicians were good pianists, but not so good vocalists, particularly the male. The classical music was only on early evening during the time we were at dinner, so we did not get to hear them.

There was some dancing, in the BB King room, but none of the Music Walk rooms really were suitable, and not many good dance tunes were played anyway.

Having been told by others that HAL was a superior line, this was overall a disappointment, compared to the many other lines we have been on, and together with the poor food quality and service in most of the dining options, as has been mentioned in a different thread, we will not be cruising with HAL again.

[sprockie]

We've been sailing HAL for 25 years and I've seen the transition from big band and show tunes to a really enjoyable experience in the way of music for my family.  I LOVE the dualing pianos and the RSRR.  I won't book a cruise on a ship without those venues.  We are so glad HAL is moving to please the middle aged and younger crowds.  

[Islander58]

11 minutes ago, sprockie said:

We've been sailing HAL for 25 years and I've seen the transition from big band and show tunes to a really enjoyable experience in the way of music for my family.  I LOVE the dualing pianos and the RSRR.  I won't book a cruise on a ship without those venues.  We are so glad HAL is moving to please the middle aged and younger crowds.  

We have experienced both the old stuff and the new. We cruised South America on Zaandam in 2018 where headliners were a harpist and a harmonica guy. Seriously. Something had to change. Ed Sullivan went off the air decades ago! We have experienced BB King on Oosterdam and Koningsdam. It is loud - but we plan on it. I have ear plugs if needed and we choose our seats carefully. I will continue sailing on HAL and am generally happy with the changes.

[Mosaic]

The above is simply correct other than saying Music Walk is the ONLY thing Holland America is putting money into these days.

[*Miss G*]

Everyone on the board knows what it’s like to have a budget.  Everyone knows what it means to take out a loan and face a budget reduction in order to pay for that loan.  We also know that the pandemic has further reduced discretionary spending as prices skyrocket.  Something has to give and I prefer it be the included lobster than the Music Walk or the cruise line.

Oops… Wrong thread!  (But same sentiment lol)

Edited December 31, 2022 by *Miss G*

[El Orans]

On 12/22/2022 at 5:07 PM, JennysUncle said:

We really like the BB King and Rolling Stone venues, but find the sound level almost unbearably loud.  Aside from making conversation (and ordering drinks) nearly impossible, pumping the amps up that much muddies the sound and buries all the instruments into one sonic smear.

 

We were on the Rotterdam in October on deck 4 midships, and as someone earlier noted we could hear a faint bass thump coming up through the atrium over the BBK stage.

 

The sound meter on my smartphone measured the level in both venues at 90+db.  This is controllable, set by the sound guy in the control booth at the back.  Who knows who decides what the level should be ?  Interestingly, between sets the recorded music fill-in was dropped to 80db.

We like to spend at least part of the evening in BB King’s but we always bring earplugs. 

[HALcruiser2001]

10 hours ago, El Orans said:

We like to spend at least part of the evening in BB King’s but we always bring earplugs. 

 

Use eargasm or eraser, not plugs 

[El Orans]

On 1/1/2023 at 8:52 AM, bdd123 said:

 

Use eargasm or eraser, not plugs 

“Eargasm High Fidelity Earplugs“ 😎

[ski ww]

If you need ear plugs then the music is too loud, why bother? I enjoy most music but not if it's that loud. 

[LMaxwell]

Would be nice if bands were allowed to deviate from their Top 20 playlists, and the Dueling Pianos is more like 2 people playing Pianos with energy level at a 4.  BB Kings is always popular but on some ships shoved into a small room. Never Main Stage. Would love to see these performers around ship during the day for some small sets. Get a couple of players up near pool for an hour or two to play acoustic sets. Lincoln Center, not something I seek out, but high quality and has its fans, now being discontinued. Sad. This was the music for some of the Main Stage shows. Now what? 

[HALcruiser2001]

2 hours ago, ski ww said:

If you need ear plugs then the music is too loud, why bother? I enjoy most music but not if it's that loud. 

 

Because of many reasons.  Too loud to you may not mean too loud for me.  Too loud for you upfront means too little in back for me.

 

I go to music to listen to it, not to hear people next to me talking.

 

R&B, R&R, jazz are typically all "loud" so are many outdoor classical venues.    Anything opera is too loud even at 0 Db.

 

😉

[HALcruiser2001]

27 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

Would be nice if bands were allowed to deviate from their Top 20 playlists, and the Dueling Pianos is more like 2 people playing Pianos with energy level at a 4.  BB Kings is always popular but on some ships shoved into a small room. Never Main Stage. Would love to see these performers around ship during the day for some small sets. Get a couple of players up near pool for an hour or two to play acoustic sets. Lincoln Center, not something I seek out, but high quality and has its fans, now being discontinued. Sad. This was the music for some of the Main Stage shows. Now what? 

just because they might change the sign on the back of the stage doesn't mean they are dropping all classical music, right?

[LMaxwell]

7 minutes ago, bdd123 said:

just because they might change the sign on the back of the stage doesn't mean they are dropping all classical music, right?

Could not say. 

[AV8rix]

1 hour ago, bdd123 said:

just because they might change the sign on the back of the stage doesn't mean they are dropping all classical music, right?

 

[Colorado Klutch]

It will be interesting to see how HAL might attempt to attract younger people. Music tastes among young people today are extremely fragmented. It's not like the old days when most people liked Rock, R&B or Country. 

 

This is why many modern dance clubs are "silent". People dance while wearing headphones. They can tune in to multiple channels playing many different kinds of music. One couple might be boogying to Michael Jackson while another is jamming to Megan Thee Stallion. That's the future.

 

Volume is also extremely subjective. Last year I attended a Tool show with a friend who is much younger than me. He suggested I bring ear plugs. He wasn't aware I attended many a Rock concert back in the late 70s and 80s. Tool put on a great show and I really liked it; without earplugs.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Colorado Klutch

[HALcruiser2001]

1 minute ago, Colorado Klutch said:

It will be interesting to see how HAL might attempt to attract younger people. Music tastes among young people today are extremely fragmented. It's not like the old days when most people liked Rock, R&B or Country. 

 

This is why many modern dance clubs are "silent". People dance while wearing headphones. They can tune in to multiple channels playing many different kinds of music. One couple might be boogying to Michael Jackson while another is jamming to Megan Thee Stallion. That's the future.

 

Volume is also extremely subjective. Last year I attended a Tool show with a friend who is much younger than me. He suggested I bring ear plugs. He wasn't aware I attended many a Rock concert back in the late 70s and 80s. Tool put on a great show and I really liked it; without earplugs.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/23/entertainment/dave-grohl-hearing-loss/index.html

 

Tool is really loud, usually.  Great show.  Slip Knot is louder and so is Metallica.  Foo Fighters do it pretty well too.  AC/DC and a few others are in the 130Db to 140 Db range.  By far the loudest I have seen was Journey (new singer, in last 15 years).   I did not expect it, I had to reach for plugs as it was truly painful.

Many football games get in the 130-150BD range as well.

You should wear earplugs.  Not the foam ones, use eargasm or earasor.  There are likely more brands.  You can get them spur of the moment at Guitar Center.  You can also twist or contort the foam plugs to let in a bit more air, which will improve high frequency at the cost of damage.

I paid the price of 100's of loud venues per year for decades, even more if you count me being in the front of the band.  I now use Costco KS10 hearing aids.  They are worthless in concert venues, but otherwise, you are missing out on the high frequencies.  Unfortunately if you have been to a lot of shows in the 70s and 80s you are in the same boat as me, human ears just cannot withstand high volumes for long periods of time. 

With my KS10, I can hear birds and many other things that I lost out on for years.  I can hear my wife mumbling about me 4 rooms away!  😉 


The reason why your friend recommended ear plugs is wise.  Take his advice next time.  The reason you could handle it is very likely because your ears are shot.  I am 60 and in the same boat.  Hearing aids are enlightening.  Not getting them leads to confusion of all kinds and also reportedly memory loss and Alzheimer's.  You can research all over the place for them, but the best place to get quality hearing aids is Costco.  You pay a fraction of the cost of a current model Phonak (they are now about 3 years dated).  Phonak are about $6K.  KS10 at costco are 3 year old Phonak with warranty for $1300. In ear fitting is free by a licensed audiologist.  I tested 3 models of varying quality.  Phonak were about $5900, Starkey more.  hearingtracker.com is your best resource as you can post your audiogram and have people comment on it.  There is centuries of experience gathered in a single post.  If you have profound loss more so in one ear, you need pretty expensive aids.  If you need tinnitus masking, that also limits your options (I have it bad, but just the hearing aids without masking have helped).

The tech in hearing aids is quite astonishing now.  For example if you have total loss in one ear, you can wear an aid on that ear and the mics pic up the sounds from that side and transmit it to the other.

On the same note.  Amplifiers are now nuts.  Those loud shows of the 70s and 80s are put to shame Db wise by new systems.  The amps they use require many watts of driving power to get to where musicians like them.  My home stereo could easily blow ear drums.  I have it limited.

I will add a cheap Db reader to my pre-cruise purchase list.  😉

[HALcruiser2001]

57 minutes ago, AV8rix said:

 

Mixed comments on this thread on whether cutting LCS is a branding or genre decision.

None of the posts that I have seen definitively state anything from HAL, so I will wait and see what happens.

Quite frankly though, if I am fortunate enough to see LCS perform in that empty of a theater, it would be a net positive for me.

[Nola26]

I have sensitive hearing so I wear a set of headphones around my neck and put them in to muffle sound when I'm in a loud place like a concert or casino. Sometimes I even play one of my Audible books. I love live music and this helps me enjoy it more.

 

HAL has to try to attract younger travelers who will sail with them for decades as you have done. Otherwise the line will phase out as those traditional customers phase out.

 

In any event I'm looking forward to my first HAL cruise this spring, Eurodam to Alaska. I'm used to sailing on NCL so I'll miss some things but sure I'll really appreciate some of the differences (starting with a retractable roof over the pool in Alaska).

Edited January 9, 2023 by Nola26

[mcrcruiser]

Amazing   HAL just released that in the future   longer cruises are planed for this cruise line .Well then why are they so inclined to loud music because the longer cruises attract the older  crowds who not  only have the time but the money to afford such longer cruises

[mcrcruiser]

Just now, mcrcruiser said:

Amazing   HAL just released that in the future   longer cruises are planed for this cruise line .Well then why are they so inclined to loud music because the longer cruises attract the older  crowds who not  only have the time but the money to afford such longer cruises

We can see the short cruises like 7 to 14  days having the Rolling Rock & BBKings . Perhaps this is HAL management thinking as well . They should also bring back  more dance type music for those of us who like to dance

[Colorado Klutch]

13 minutes ago, bdd123 said:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/23/entertainment/dave-grohl-hearing-loss/index.html

 

Tool is really loud, usually.  Great show.  Slip Knot is louder and so is Metallica.  Foo Fighters do it pretty well too.  AC/DC and a few others are in the 130Db to 140 Db range.  By far the loudest I have seen was Journey (new singer, in last 15 years).   I did not expect it, I had to reach for plugs as it was truly painful.

Many football games get in the 130-150BD range as well.

You should wear earplugs.  Not the foam ones, use eargasm or earasor.  There are likely more brands.  You can get them spur of the moment at Guitar Center.  You can also twist or contort the foam plugs to let in a bit more air, which will improve high frequency at the cost of damage.

I paid the price of 100's of loud venues per year for decades, even more if you count me being in the front of the band.  I now use Costco KS10 hearing aids.  They are worthless in concert venues, but otherwise, you are missing out on the high frequencies.  Unfortunately if you have been to a lot of shows in the 70s and 80s you are in the same boat as me, human ears just cannot withstand high volumes for long periods of time. 

With my KS10, I can hear birds and many other things that I lost out on for years.  I can hear my wife mumbling about me 4 rooms away!  😉 


The reason why your friend recommended ear plugs is wise.  Take his advice next time.  The reason you could handle it is very likely because your ears are shot.  I am 60 and in the same boat.  Hearing aids are enlightening.  Not getting them leads to confusion of all kinds and also reportedly memory loss and Alzheimer's.  You can research all over the place for them, but the best place to get quality hearing aids is Costco.  You pay a fraction of the cost of a current model Phonak (they are now about 3 years dated).  Phonak are about $6K.  KS10 at costco are 3 year old Phonak with warranty for $1300. In ear fitting is free by a licensed audiologist.  I tested 3 models of varying quality.  Phonak were about $5900, Starkey more.  hearingtracker.com is your best resource as you can post your audiogram and have people comment on it.  There is centuries of experience gathered in a single post.  If you have profound loss more so in one ear, you need pretty expensive aids.  If you need tinnitus masking, that also limits your options (I have it bad, but just the hearing aids without masking have helped).

The tech in hearing aids is quite astonishing now.  For example if you have total loss in one ear, you can wear an aid on that ear and the mics pic up the sounds from that side and transmit it to the other.

On the same note.  Amplifiers are now nuts.  Those loud shows of the 70s and 80s are put to shame Db wise by new systems.  The amps they use require many watts of driving power to get to where musicians like them.  My home stereo could easily blow ear drums.  I have it limited.

I will add a cheap Db reader to my pre-cruise purchase list.  😉

 

Thanks for the suggestions. I will likely require hearing aids in the future, but my ears are still in surprisingly good shape. 

I have liked loud music since I was very young. It never really bothered me. Although I've attended some loud concerts, it's not like I was doing it constantly. Artists like Dave Grohl and Robert Plant have hearing loss because they were standing directly in front of amplifiers night after night. 

Tool really wasn't that loud. My first concert was Kansas with Alvin Lee and Ten Years After. Alvin Lee was really loud! Kansas not so much. 

[ontheweb]

I always liked loud music, and my hearing is now paying a price for that. DW and I cannot watch tv together as I cannot hear sound at her volume while she finds mine painfully loud.

 

The loudest I remember from my "youth" was sitting by the amps in a small venue for Emerson, Lake, and Palmer. Soon after that the same equipment was used for a much larger and appropriate for its size venue, the Fillmore East.

 

In later years, the loudest I ever heard was at Bethel Woods (the original Woodstock site), and was not even a rock concert. It was New Orleans music, and all of it was LOUD. The loudest was by the feature act Trombone Shorty and was so loud it was even extremely painful for me.

[Roz]

This is not a popular opinion in the HAL forum and I'll probably get blasted for it,  but overall the Music Walk acts just aren't that good.  I live in a city with world class singers, songwriters, musicians, and performers.  The average Nashville backup singer or session musician can run circles around any of the HAL acts.  

 

On my last 2 HAL cruises (March & October 2022) there was a lot of "sickness" among the musical groups so on any given night there may have only been only one act performing.  

[REOVA]

1 hour ago, Colorado Klutch said:

 

This is why many modern dance clubs are "silent". People dance while wearing headphones. 

Ah, so you've attended HAL'S silent disco parties where the music is piped into headphones that everyone wears. But the room is silent. 🤣

[mikebsxm]

On 12/22/2022 at 9:20 AM, LMaxwell said:

You're the reason I have to hear Brown Eyed Girl and Sweet Caroline 5 times every cruise? 

 

Nothing wrong with 1970's music - lots of great music - just wish they would play more than the same playlist every cruise and repeat some songs day to day.  It gets old and boring really fast.  If HAL wants younger target demo they need to add in more 80's, 90's, 2000's music.  

I agree.  Most of the musicians, especially in Billboard Onboard, are so young that they were not born until the late 90's.  They know nothing about 70's music, except the playlists that Billboard expects of them.   Neil Diamond has so many wonderful hits, but all you hear is Sweet Caroline (ba ba bah) played in every set.  Back when HAL had true "Piano Bars", the artist was wide open to requests and knew most of the songs requested.  But those older piano bars, with a single piano and one well seasoned artist, are long gone, because they couldn't seat enough thirsty drinkers around the piano to justify the real estate on the ship that the piano bar was occupying.