“Ambush” style of new charges!

[MISTER 67]

It's probably the people who have been cruising for years that are noticing the changes the most, we started cruising in 1982 and some of the changes by most of the lines have been pretty drastic. It's going to get to the point were the cruise lines are going to nickel and dime so much that people will consider other vacation options. I know that we are done with HAL as they have reached the point that their product has really suffered in the food and entertainment aspects of their cruises.

Edited January 5, 2023 by MISTER 67

[Saturngrl]

I'm a certified Lean practitioner and wish the cruise lines would use someone like me to help them identify sources of Waste to eliminate the wastes while keeping their customers happy.  I miss the welcome glass of bubbly on embarkation.  I'm all for the option of "Go Green" regarding stateroom cleanliness.  Focusing on what popular items to keep in Oceanview, along with the popular items in Cafe Al Bacio, makes sense to me.  Additionally, making the welcome bottle of bubbly/wine optional for Concierge passengers is great.  Regarding the afternoon canapes for Concierge,   no one likes the ones provided currently, but we all may want cheese and crackers daily (lower food cost).  

 

I'm sure the crew members have some great ideas for eliminating waste....I would love to hear from them! 

[LGW59]

1 hour ago, MISTER 67 said:

It's probably the people who have been cruising for years that are noticing the changes the most, we started cruising in 1982 and some of the changes by most of the lines have been pretty drastic. It's going to get to the point were the cruise lines are going to nickel and dime so much that people will consider other vacation options. I know that we are done with HAL as they have reached the point that their product has really suffered in the food and entertainment aspects of their cruises.

“Ambush” style of new charges!  got drama?!

[vji6697]

1 hour ago, MISTER 67 said:

It's probably the people who have been cruising for years that are noticing the changes the most, we started cruising in 1982 and some of the changes by most of the lines have been pretty drastic. It's going to get to the point were the cruise lines are going to nickel and dime so much that people will consider other vacation options. I know that we are done with HAL as they have reached the point that their product has really suffered in the food and entertainment aspects of their cruises.

 

Most likely, but in our case, only done 2 cruises, and only 1 on X in a Sky Suite. enjoyed it and booked another for 2025 (2023/4 plans already made), but now reading some of the things happening, am looking at Oceania/others as their prices now seem to stack up well

[mpdog42]

2 hours ago, sanjay said:

I agree with this as well.

 

It is ok to make changes to manage a budget - that is how every business works.

 

I don't think it should have been done to cruises which were already past final payment.

 

 

Mic Drop +10000000

[CrazyTrain2]

Let's look at the problem graphically.  If a global pandemic hits and you have a lot of fixed assets (like cruise ships), the ONLY way to stay in business is issue debt or sell capital.  The cruise lines literally mortgaged their entire businesses.  This issue will spiral (in bad way) as cheaper debt issued before the pandemic needs to be refinanced with higher rates.  Expect one or more of the major lines to go bankrupt either forcefully or strategically.

Edited January 5, 2023 by CrazyTrain2

[drowelf]

3 hours ago, sail2day said:

I agree with your post. Celebrity is now joining the other lines in the same cost cutting measures. Very soon all lines will offer the same product. I'm not sure what their end game is here. 

Thats because all the cruise lines have billions of $$ of new debt to service, some of which was probably acquired with some pretty pricey conditions. That debt needs to be paid off and the only source of $$$ is us the customers. 

2 hours ago, sanjay said:

I agree with this as well.

 

It is ok to make changes to manage a budget - that is how every business works.

 

I don't think it should have been done to cruises which were already past final payment.

 

 

Agreed, but don't know how they would manage some kind of phased rollout for folks who purchased the cruise before the cut-off date. 

 

This almost seems bait and switch type stuff, but I'm sure that the CoC has sufficient language to allow these types of changes after you've paid for your cruise.

 

 

[davekathy]

58 minutes ago, Saturngrl said:

I'm a certified Lean practitioner and wish the cruise lines would use someone like me to help them identify sources of Waste to eliminate the wastes while keeping their customers happy.  I miss the welcome glass of bubbly on embarkation.  I'm all for the option of "Go Green" regarding stateroom cleanliness.  Focusing on what popular items to keep in Oceanview, along with the popular items in Cafe Al Bacio, makes sense to me.  Additionally, making the welcome bottle of bubbly/wine optional for Concierge passengers is great.  Regarding the afternoon canapes for Concierge,   no one likes the ones provided currently, but we all may want cheese and crackers daily (lower food cost).  

 

I'm sure the crew members have some great ideas for eliminating waste....I would love to hear from them! 

What makes you assume they already don't have an expert in that field? 

[mpdog42]

2 hours ago, Mike45LC said:

Last month, Christmas cruise, we ordered from MDR every night in Blu (onion soup).  No problem.

 

we had tote bag in cabin, along with two umbrellas, robes, slippers, yoga mats, binoculars.  
 

No sparkling wine, but I think that is “on request” and I did not request.

 

canapés every afternoon until I asked steward to stop abandoning stinking plates of crap in my cabin every day.

 

smaller sized entrees? I didn’t notice.  Fewer beef selections and cheaper cuts?  You are right!  

 

I did notice that lack of shower cap and emery board, but that didn’t bother me.

 

I still had a great cruise and I still love the X product. I booked another X cruise while still on board.

 

Great !!! Let’s just hope you “experience” holds till the rest of us can get on our cruise in months to come!!

[jelayne]

Some of the items that have changed or disappeared happened  quite awhile ago, the discontinuing of cotton balls, Qtips & shower caps stopped long before Covid in non-suite cabins.  Aqua & CC sparkling wine and canapes have been by request since before Covid also, although some Cabin Attendants had them delivered without request most others didn't.

 

Not being able to order from the MDR menu in Blu was the protocol when we started cruising with Celebrity in 2012 on S Class ships.  Since the restart it seems with reduced passenger counts they relaxed on that but with staff shortages it makes sense, particularly on S and E class, not to have servers running to the MDR kitchen to get meals.

 

If tote bags have been eliminated that is new as we got one a few weeks ago.

The welcome aboard bubbly has been replaced with bubbly at the Captains Toast.  I too miss the "idea" of being handed a glass as we walked on the ship, but the realty was I hated trying to handle a roll-aboard, purse and a glass in a mass of people in a small space.

 

Oatmeal cookies that would be a major to me, but I remain hopeful as there were none in October but available every day in December.  

 

 

[Luvcrusn]

10 minutes ago, jelayne said:

Some of the items that have changed or disappeared happened  quite awhile ago, the discontinuing of cotton balls, Qtips & shower caps stopped long before Covid in non-suite cabins.  Aqua & CC sparkling wine and canapes have been by request since before Covid also, although some Cabin Attendants had them delivered without request most others didn't.

 

Not being able to order from the MDR menu in Blu was the protocol when we started cruising with Celebrity in 2012 on S Class ships.  Since the restart it seems with reduced passenger counts they relaxed on that but with staff shortages it makes sense, particularly on S and E class, not to have servers running to the MDR kitchen to get meals.

 

If tote bags have been eliminated that is new as we got one a few weeks ago.

The welcome aboard bubbly has been replaced with bubbly at the Captains Toast.  I too miss the "idea" of being handed a glass as we walked on the ship, but the realty was I hated trying to handle a roll-aboard, purse and a glass in a mass of people in a small space.

 

Oatmeal cookies that would be a major to me, but I remain hopeful as there were none in October but available every day in December.  

 

 

Not an oatmeal raisin cookie to be found on Equinox  12/12-12/22.😢

[AnnaNicole]

4 hours ago, CrazyTrain2 said:

Remember when a regular airline ticket included: seats, 2 checked bags each, a meal, leg room and a plastic pair of wings for the kids??  Now you practically need to fly business class or above to be treated as a human.

 

What got us to this state - Corporate debt and the need to make a profit.

 

As far as cruising goes - it's going to get a lot worse.  The debt racked up by the lines during the pandemic is extraordinary and that interest nut needs to be serviced.

I would argue what got us to this place is the huge increase in executive compensation of the past two decades.   😄

[Shiba_Lover]

1 hour ago, Saturngrl said:

I'm a certified Lean practitioner and wish the cruise lines would use someone like me to help them identify sources of Waste to eliminate the wastes while keeping their customers happy.  I miss the welcome glass of bubbly on embarkation.  I'm all for the option of "Go Green" regarding stateroom cleanliness.  Focusing on what popular items to keep in Oceanview, along with the popular items in Cafe Al Bacio, makes sense to me.  Additionally, making the welcome bottle of bubbly/wine optional for Concierge passengers is great.  Regarding the afternoon canapes for Concierge,   no one likes the ones provided currently, but we all may want cheese and crackers daily (lower food cost).  

 

I'm sure the crew members have some great ideas for eliminating waste....I would love to hear from them! 

Could not agree with this more.  Also have a blackbelt in Six Sigma and did process improvement for years.  I also wish they had someone doing this.  I had an issue with a few things on a recent TA and spoke to the retreat manager and gave her some feedback.  She literally told me she was very impressed with my constructive feedback and at the end of our cruise, we received a considerable FCC.  It's so simple - if only they would get someone to look at the issues they could easily resolve.😂

 

[jelayne]

7 minutes ago, Luvcrusn said:

Not an oatmeal raisin cookie to be found on Equinox  12/12-12/22.😢

Had that same experience in Oct but then in December they were back.

[LMaxwell]

I am less likely to commit deposits far in advance for any cruise line. The industry-wide rapid degradation of the product doesn't command parting with my dollars sooner. I am/was excited for cruising to restart and was willing to commit significant discretionary time and money to them, but they are doing their best to turn me off currently.  5 Cruises taken since restart but only 1 booked now instead of typical 4-6 always in queue 

[LMaxwell]

A pervasive issues on Cruise Critic is that this is a place where brand fanatics obviously will congregate, and that in and of itself is fine.  However, whenever anyone talks about a trend or overall decline they tend to be challenged to provide specific dates, ships, examples, etc. and when they do, fanatics poke holes in the examples and bypass the entire argument. It's a very subtle way to test the bonafides of the poster and then try to undermine their credibility and dismiss their opinions.

 

I will never understand those that pay for A, B, C, D, E, yet when they get A, B, C, D and E is missing, are okay with it.  Or they agree to pay for A, B, C, D, E and then find out it really will cost another 20-40% to get what they had bargained for, and are okay with it. Being okay with everything that reduces what you had signed up for, or charges you more, is a major disservice to yourself and others. 

 

The fanatics should be the ones most able to recognize the changes; newbies won't know the difference. And for the amount of time and money spent by the fanatics, they should hold some sway with upper management and hold them accountable to maintain or increase standards; if prices increase standards need to in lock step. The longest time customers should feel disrespected by the rapid degradation of a product they are accustomed to and spend a LOT of money on. There is no need to give corporations a free pass when you get less out of a deal. 

 

Diminishing standards and increasing costs is not the road to Valhalla for 99.99% of paying customers. 

[mnocket]

My theory is that Celebrity (and others) are making these changes to reset the expectations of younger  customers to a new, lower, standard.  They know that these changes will anger some/many older (loyal) customers and that they may lose some of their business.  I'm sure that is baked into their analysis. 

 

Those of us who question whether this "new standard" for mainstream cruising still offers a compelling vacation value will either move up to luxury lines (most owned by the same corporations as the mainstream lines, hence no revenue loss) or reduce/eliminate cruising in favor of other vacation options (an acceptable loss).

 

Just as I know airline travel will never be the same - so do I know that mainstream cruising will never be the same.  That's what I call an inconvenient truth.

[mfs2k]

personally, I have way tote many tote bags and most of you probably do tote..

[mnocket]

10 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

A pervasive issues on Cruise Critic is that this is a place where brand fanatics obviously will congregate, and that in and of itself is fine.  However, whenever anyone talks about a trend or overall decline they tend to be challenged to provide specific dates, ships, examples, etc. and when they do, fanatics poke holes in the examples and bypass the entire argument. It's a very subtle way to test the bonafides of the poster and then try to undermine their credibility and dismiss their opinions.

 

I will never understand those that pay for A, B, C, D, E, yet when they get A, B, C, D and E is missing, are okay with it.  Or they agree to pay for A, B, C, D, E and then find out it really will cost another 20-40% to get what they had bargained for, and are okay with it. Being okay with everything that reduces what you had signed up for, or charges you more, is a major disservice to yourself and others. 

 

The fanatics should be the ones most able to recognize the changes; newbies won't know the difference. And for the amount of time and money spent by the fanatics, they should hold some sway with upper management and hold them accountable to maintain or increase standards; if prices increase standards need to in lock step. The longest time customers should feel disrespected by the rapid degradation of a product they are accustomed to and spend a LOT of money on. There is no need to give corporations a free pass when you get less out of a deal. 

 

Diminishing standards and increasing costs is not the road to Valhalla for 99.99% of paying customers. 

 

It's also surprising to me, but I guess those who feel loyalty perceive things differently than whose who don't.  

[mnocket]

1 minute ago, mfs2k said:

personally, I have way tote many tote bags and most of you probably do tote..

Is that a good reason that no one should get them in the future?

[neverlaysup]

4 hours ago, luv4cruises said:

Also Blu also has a more”exotic” menu that does not always appeal to me.

It's supposed to be "healthier", not really exotic!

[Pokeymon]

3 hours ago, Mike45LC said:

Last month, Christmas cruise, we ordered from MDR every night in Blu (onion soup).  No problem.

 

we had tote bag in cabin, along with two umbrellas, robes, slippers, yoga mats, binoculars.  
 

No sparkling wine, but I think that is “on request” and I did not request.

 

canapés every afternoon until I asked steward to stop abandoning stinking plates of crap in my cabin every day.

 

smaller sized entrees? I didn’t notice.  Fewer beef selections and cheaper cuts?  You are right!  

 

I did notice that lack of shower cap and emery board, but that didn’t bother me.

 

I still had a great cruise and I still love the X product. I booked another X cruise while still on board.

 

e

reduced MDR menu, smaller portions, most recently 9.95 + gratuities charge for room service, reduced classics’ menu, discontinuing of Blu option to order from full MDR menu, elimination of canapés for Aqua guests, charge for second lobster, reduced dinner offerings in Ocean View cafe, minimal bathroom products. 

[BermudaBound2014]

52 minutes ago, AnnaNicole said:

I would argue what got us to this place is the huge increase in executive compensation of the past two decades.   😄

 

Respectfully disagree. What got cruise lines into this place is shutting down the world economy and, in particular, cruises for 18 months. Now, I might agree if you want to expand upon how corporate greed (executive compensation) played into the pandemic response, but unfortunately this isn't the forum for that discussion. 

 

Sure, executives compensation could be less, but Fain could donate his entire salary (14 Million) and that wouldn't even begin to touch one month of interest only payments on current debt. Executive compensation is miniscule compared to current debt load. They could all donate 100% of their salaries and work for free for the next five years and it would be a drop in the bucket.

 

Interestingly, Frank Del Rio didn't take the same approach as Mr. Fain. 84% of the shareholders voted to give him a paycut and instead he ignored them and took a tremendous raise during covid. Now he put his son in charge of Oceana. So, I'm not disagreeing that executive compensation is problematic, but I am suggesting that cruise lines, in particular, are straddled with more debt than they can handle. I still  believe restructuring is inevitable. 

[shanebbb]

During Christmas we selected a cruise - Feb 25th on the Apex in Aqua.  The price with insurance was $4724, which it had been for at least 3 weeks.  I checked on Tue (Jan 3) at 3:00 PM to be sure it was the same and then called the TA.  She checked for me and at 4:00 the price had jumped up to $5600 (with insurance).  Between 3:00 and 4:00 PM they increased the price by 18%.  That, along with all the cost cutting listed on this thread has left a bad taste in my mouth regarding Celebrity.

 

BTW - no Aqua cabins on that sailing have been sold since the Tuesday increase.

 

Our last cruise was pre-pandemic and we were REALLY looking forward to this one but WE'RE OUT!

 

All the best to all of you helpful people!

-Shane

[shanebbb]

Posted a dupe - very sorry

This is to delete it

Edited January 5, 2023 by shanebbb