Azamara shore excursions

[roberts2005]

Just going over my original booking information for my visit to a sheep ranch in Punta Arenas.  When I booked it was a visit to the Estancia Fitz Roy, taking a ferry to an island where the ranch was located.

 

we actually wound up going to a different estancia, Olga Theresa.  No mention to us of the change of ranches.

 

overall, I would give this excursion a 3 out of 10

[Joe&Barry]

Hi, we are just off the Journey and had OBC to use so we took 3 excursions, just our opinion, but we found all of them to be poor and they were putting 40 of us on a tour. Very different from our Journey cruise to the Baltic’s in 2018 which were small groups about 20 people.

[crzrr]

I agree.  We got off of the Onward on February 12th after having been on since January 17th.  We had a lot of OBC so booked some ship's excursions.  Only one was excellent.  One was so bad that we demanded our money back.  The tour operator had no idea what the excursion was supposed to be and refused to check with their main office when we complained.  He ended up telling us that we all "sucked". Most of the others were disappointing - too many people!

[Ithikan]

1 hour ago, crzrr said:

Only one was excellent.  One was so bad that we demanded our money back.  The tour operator had no idea what the excursion was supposed to be and refused to check with their main office when we complained.  He ended up telling us that we all "sucked". Most of the others were disappointing - too many people!

Beyond unacceptable.  This behavior is appalling.  Having worked as a tour guide on Kauai I simply cannot imagine how bad this tour must have been, for the guide to refuse to communicate with his/her employer PLUS actually use that language to the group.  Disgusting!

A quick calculation for an upcoming tour we've reserved with OBC suggests that Azamara will take in $7,560 for a 40 passenger tour.  And we've absolutely no interest in touring with such a large group.  Once onboard, I will check the numbers with the excursion desk and will cancel if the tour number exceeds 20.

 

Teri   

[uktog]

18 minutes ago, Ithikan said:

Beyond unacceptable.  This behavior is appalling.  Having worked as a tour guide on Kauai I simply cannot imagine how bad this tour must have been, for the guide to refuse to communicate with his/her employer PLUS actually use that language to the group.  Disgusting!

A quick calculation for an upcoming tour we've reserved with OBC suggests that Azamara will take in $7,560 for a 40 passenger tour.  And we've absolutely no interest in touring with such a large group.  Once onboard, I will check the numbers with the excursion desk and will cancel if the tour number exceeds 20.

 

Teri   

Be careful, they may tell you one thing like 40 over 3 buses as they did for us and then all 40 of us were on the same bus due to "local difficulties".

[roberts2005]

On our most recent cruise, Pursuit had only 470 passengers.  The 3 tours booked average 25 people..

 

One tour also mhad a pproblem with the tour guide..  The sound system did not work properly and he refused to move around and speak to the people in the back of the bus.

[crzrr]

One tour specifically said in the description that it was limited to the first 20 people to book and would be on a minibus.  We booked and when we checked in there were 38 people on the tour.  They did have 2 tour guides and split us into 2 groups but being on one bus we, of course, had to wait for the last couple to make it to the bus.  Also, the museum at the archeological site said on the website that capacity was 15 people at a time and they enforced that meaning that each guide had to split her group in two and take them through separately leaving the rest of the group to wait.  

We have booked ship's tours before and some were okay and some were exceptional.  This cruise had an overwhelming number of poor excursions.

[Cruiseworks]

On 2/5/2023 at 3:48 AM, travelberlin said:

Shore excursions with Azamara are very expensive. They use providers in ports, which also serve other cruise lines. This means the quality of their offerings are the same that other cruise lines offer,  but the prices are more expensive. There was a post in these boards referring to the higher overheads from Azamara excursions.
Unless you have a very specific excursion you wish to book, that due the time involved might be a problem returning to the ship, I would recommend you book private excursions or get together with people from your roll call. 
Ivi

We had a shore excursion in the Caribbean in December that was not at all as described. It was billed as a catamaran snorkeling trip but it was not a catamaran. Another guest described it as an old scow. The seas were quite rough and water too murky to see anything and should probably not even have gone out. Passengers complained after and were told they had emailed the company about the tour and we’re waiting to hear back. Azamara never did address.

 

On another cruise in January/February we ended booking all tours independently with other providers and were so happy we did. We did two tours along with many other fellow passengers that were identical to Azamara. We paid $190 US PP for one and Azamara charged $399 and the other one was $120 and Azamara charged $299. The passengers that paid the shipboard prices were not happy at all. 
 

[btke]

We had such a terrible experience on an Azamara excursion that I wrote to guest relations email and asked to hear from someone when I did the post cruise survey.  I’ve had no response to either.  The excursion was post cruise and we weren’t back on board to have a chance to speak with anyone who works for Azamara.  Does anyone have another suggestion how to hear from someone? 

[excitedofharpenden]

11 hours ago, btke said:

We had such a terrible experience on an Azamara excursion that I wrote to guest relations email and asked to hear from someone when I did the post cruise survey.  I’ve had no response to either.  The excursion was post cruise and we weren’t back on board to have a chance to speak with anyone who works for Azamara.  Does anyone have another suggestion how to hear from someone? 

I'm afraid thai once you are off the ship and can't tackle anyone face to face the likelihood of hearing anything further is slim. I did a post cruise excursion on Celebrity a few years ago and our tour bus was in a nasty accident (we were unhurt, but it collided with a car that rolled a few times - our drivers fault). I wrote and never heard back. 

 

Phil 

[gowilk]

customer be warned….azamara shore excursions will PACK 54 people in a 58 seat bus for a drive over an hour and then say AC isn’t even guaranteed….there is NO justification other than pure profit by sycamore partners for this change in policy.  BOOK private to control your environment otherwise you’re at their mercy, this is the “new” azamara.

[uktog]

3 minutes ago, gowilk said:

customer be warned….azamara shore excursions will PACK 54 people in a 58 seat bus for a drive over an hour and then say AC isn’t even guaranteed….there is NO justification other than pure profit by sycamore partners for this change in policy.  BOOK private to control your environment otherwise you’re at their mercy, this is the “new” azamara.

When and where did this happen? Will help us know what to avoid thanks 

 

(Mind that also sometimes happened in the past and I’m not sure when they split off to their own shorex arrangements so it may have nothing to do with the new owners) 

Edited February 24, 2023 by uktog

[gowilk]

5 minutes ago, uktog said:

When and where did this happen? Will help us know what to avoid thanks 

 

(Mind that also sometimes happened in the past and I’m not sure when they split off to their own shorex arrangements so it may have nothing to do with the new owners) 

specifically in east london on the xhosa demonstration tour, as for the policy change excursion staff proclaimed of the change that happened during the pandemic (coincidentally when private equity took over)…it merely creates discomfort for customers but greater profit for sycamore partners.  Lower occupancy was always the excuse/reason for the high prices on azamara shore excursions.  Sadly that is no longer true, hence my general warning.

[uktog]

Thanks. I know they have had issues getting providers to deliver in South Africa. 
Certainly in October 2022 they were still using RC excursion providers so the move wasn’t complete then. 
Indeed you are correct to warn but in the case of some locations the tourism infrastructure is not yet able to support the cruise tour industry. Private providers are also harder to find post pandemic. It’s not however in this instance a Sycamore issue. 
So for all excursions be prepared for what you did not plan for! 

[gowilk]

2 hours ago, uktog said:

Thanks. I know they have had issues getting providers to deliver in South Africa. 
Certainly in October 2022 they were still using RC excursion providers so the move wasn’t complete then. 
Indeed you are correct to warn but in the case of some locations the tourism infrastructure is not yet able to support the cruise tour industry. Private providers are also harder to find post pandemic. It’s not however in this instance a Sycamore issue. 
So for all excursions be prepared for what you did not plan for! 

THEY CHANGED THE POLICY FROM 25 average to 50….all sycamore profit….corporate policy decision ….timing was stated by excursion manager onboard…do you have a reason to defend the indefensible?

Edited February 24, 2023 by gowilk

[uktog]

34 minutes ago, gowilk said:

THEY CHANGED THE POLICY FROM 25 average to 50….all sycamore profit….corporate policy decision ….timing was stated by excursion manager onboard…do you have a reason to defend the indefensible?

Thank you. As that’s not what is published and certainly not my experience on very recent trips that’s why I follow up. Not saying it is the case but I have known Shore Ex managers onboard punt out spurious claims that are not policy to cover over local situations in the past. 
Im not defending the indefensible I’m trying to separate out the good Royal - old Azamara/ very evil Sycamore new Azamara emotion and get to published fact and policy. 
I will contact my HO contact for clarification of the policy and report back 

[hubofhockey]

1 hour ago, gowilk said:

THEY CHANGED THE POLICY FROM 25 average to 50….all sycamore profit….corporate policy decision ….timing was stated by excursion manager onboard…do you have a reason to defend the indefensible?

 

A PE firm driving up profit margins?  Ha!  That's what they do, and they'll keep doing it until the value of the investment goes up enough and then they sell.  The only question I have about these guys is whether they are going to expand the fleet and do new builds to compete with Oceania before they sell to one of the cruise lines or another PE firm.

[Host Jazzbeau]

I'm having trouble reconciling my wonderful recent experience on Azamara – and specifically with Azamara shore excursions that delivered MORE than advertised – with this rampant cynicism about Sycamore.  As with Cunard fans who blame Carnival for every shortfall:  remember that without Sycamore, Azamara would not even exist now – Royal got so little on the sale that Plan B would have been to scrap the ships. 

[Ayden]

12 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

I'm having trouble reconciling my wonderful recent experience on Azamara – and specifically with Azamara shore excursions that delivered MORE than advertised – with this rampant cynicism about Sycamore.  As with Cunard fans who blame Carnival for every shortfall:  remember that without Sycamore, Azamara would not even exist now – Royal got so little on the sale that Plan B would have been to scrap the ships. 

Absolutely!  Well said and a good reminder to all.  

[hubofhockey]

2 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

I'm having trouble reconciling my wonderful recent experience on Azamara – and specifically with Azamara shore excursions that delivered MORE than advertised – with this rampant cynicism about Sycamore.  As with Cunard fans who blame Carnival for every shortfall:  remember that without Sycamore, Azamara would not even exist now – Royal got so little on the sale that Plan B would have been to scrap the ships. 

My cynicism is solely related to the fact that Sycamore is a PE firm and how PE firms and their investors act.  Good for them that they got Azamara, it’s business model and loyal customer base at a bargain basement price.  Hopefully, they turn it around and grow it, rather than squeezing out the last dollars out of older ships.  It will be interesting to see.

[luv2travel90266]

They are more involved in turnarounds and increasing the value of their businesses for future sale then running them into the ground. 
 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sycamore_Partners
 

[gowilk]

businesses exist to make a profit, i merely pointed out that their higher than average shore excursion cost is no longer justifiable based on having fewer customers per bus.

 

That is a corporate decision that i feel has been inadequately exposed and am merely providing information for those in the community who make decisions based on value.

 

Other than excursions i find little has changed in their overall product and I EXPECTED to see cutbacks in maintenance and food and have found none. Personally i plan no changes in my preferred lines, i just would book ship shore excursions VERY selectively in the future.

Edited February 25, 2023 by gowilk

[Host Jazzbeau]

53 minutes ago, gowilk said:

businesses exist to make a profit, i merely pointed out that their higher than average shore excursion cost is no longer justifiable based on having fewer customers per bus.

Your impressions were based on a very small selection of shore excursions, and as someone annoying posts regularly on Cruise Critic [but with some validity]:  "the plural of anecdote is not data."

 

None of the shore excursions I experienced in October had large numbers or full buses.  

(1) I don't have the numbers for our tour to Lake Bled, but it certainly didn't feel crowded – and the mention of a 'snack with Slovenian cream cake' was actually a full lunch with that as desert;

(2-3) we weren't crowded in Pula for a tour of Rovinj, or in Zadar for Krka National Park;

(4) there were only 13 on our tour of Hvar;

(5) 13 again for the over-long tour to Mostar from Dubrovnik;

(6) only 6 for our gourmet tour in Kotor – which again included far more than the description implied;

(7) In Corfu we took the HoHo bus through Azamara – cost was higher, but the Azamara bus at the port was not at all full and the regular bus (non-Azamara) that we picked up after a stop was packed to the gills;

(8) in Argostoli we were a group of 15;

(9) it was a larger group in Zakynthos because we took a more popular (basic) tour, but still didn't feel crowded.

 

I'm not sure when 'anecdotes' become 'data' – but I would bet that my experience is closer to data than yours.  

 

Also I don't know which shore excursions you took.  The least expensive or shortest in time are probably most heavily booked, and because of local infrastructure limitations may be more crowded nowadays.

 

In any case, I am confident that my 'anecdotes' show that Sycamore is not milking Azamara, because the real worry on many of these excursions was that they would be cancelled for 'lack of interest.'  That didn't happen, throughout this cruise.  IMHO that shows a real commitment by the owners to the quality of the cruise experience.

 

Final comment:  I read the Celebrity forum here on Cruise Critic.  The complaints about cost cutting are so prevalent and wide-spread there that I am thankful every day that Azamara is no longer part of the RCG.  Whatever deficiencies you experienced on your cruise would have been 10x if Azamara was still part of RCG.  Thank God for Sycamore!

[Mrs Miggins]

We had 3 cruises last year, Back to Back in April with Azamara (our 10th I think, , River cruise with Scenic (our 3rd)  and a Viking Ocean in September (our 4th).   All were good but Azamara is the only one we have booked so far for this year.   We had been upgraded to a lovely CC suite - the food was excellent especially the specialities.  The service impeccable.

Most surprising was the quality of the shore excursions, booked because, unusually for those of us in the UK, we had lots of OBC.  We are normally DIY as the ship excursions are expensive, but we had to spend the OBC.  If I was spending real money I would research alternatives = often getting local busses and trains.    

The roll call on our June Azamara is active with many booking with Spain Day Tours etc.  If you are not confident on your own then there are many alternatives.

I would also add that there is often a temptation to book an excursion to somewhere other than the place you are docked.  Why sit on a bus if you have not fully explored the many wonderful ports that Azamara visit.  Often you can also replicate the shore excursion ie boat to Capri, Positano etc etc. at a fraction of the cost.  Research is key.

 

 

[lisiamc]

2 hours ago, Mrs Miggins said:

We had 3 cruises last year, Back to Back in April with Azamara (our 10th I think, , River cruise with Scenic (our 3rd)  and a Viking Ocean in September (our 4th).   All were good but Azamara is the only one we have booked so far for this year.   We had been upgraded to a lovely CC suite - the food was excellent especially the specialities.  The service impeccable.

Most surprising was the quality of the shore excursions, booked because, unusually for those of us in the UK, we had lots of OBC.  We are normally DIY as the ship excursions are expensive, but we had to spend the OBC.  If I was spending real money I would research alternatives = often getting local busses and trains.    

The roll call on our June Azamara is active with many booking with Spain Day Tours etc.  If you are not confident on your own then there are many alternatives.

I would also add that there is often a temptation to book an excursion to somewhere other than the place you are docked.  Why sit on a bus if you have not fully explored the many wonderful ports that Azamara visit.  Often you can also replicate the shore excursion ie boat to Capri, Positano etc etc. at a fraction of the cost.  Research is key.

 

 

I totally agree with you! Some of the independent excursions in some ports are 8-9 hours, to a place 2 hours away by coach. I always suspect that there is something charming to see or fun to do much nearer the port. (With a few exceptions, of course. Some of the ports are near enough to bucket list attractions to be tempting.) About 5 hours into a tour, I can feel the will to live draining away through the soles of my shoes, (especially if part of the tour is a guided visit to a museum 😄) and I’m ready to head back to the ship.