HAL trending to 1st/2nd Class?

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

Interesting that you posted that statement.  HAL is the only line when I have seen some folks wear their Medallions around their neck (long after the luncheon) and many love to have on their 4-5* pins.  The first time we cruised on Seabourn we could not tell the long-time veterans from we newbies...at least by looking.  On that line it was very rare for folks to ask us (what level are you).  What was more common was folks asking about travel experience and other lines.

 

I do also think that HAL qualifies as the most clickish of all the cruise lines we have cruised (and its now 16).  I say this as a 5* Mariner, but we have met more than a few HAL cruisers who do not want much to do with newbies... "ahhhh so you are ONLY 2 *!"   I am sure this only represents a small minority of HAL loyalists, but it does exist.  But, of course, we will take one of Grand Cruise totes on our next HAL cruise :).  Before we get labeled a hypocrite, those bags are simply better than the regular bags.  

 

Hank

 

I can't recall discussions of star status. On my last cruise, we never talked about star status, although we had all sailed with HAL before. We talked about our cabins, but that was because of interesting locations. The couple who had been in an inside got upgraded to ocean view, only to be disappointed that there was a big orange lifeboat outside their window. The other couple talked about being near the glass elevator. And I told them about watching the wake. Nobody asked whose cabin was more expensive, we were just sharing our experiences on the cruise. Similarly, on Cunard nobody walks around saying "Well, I'm in Queens Grill and..." 

 

I have a nice collection of Cunard pins because they changed the design several times. DH would wear one of his diamond-level pins to the World Club cocktail parties, as that seemed a nice way to acknowledge the evening. Usually it was the penultimate design, because it's the nicest (and the newest design looks cheap). One time he wore one of the first pins we got, I guess from 1990s. No level indicated back then, it was just a small pin with their lion and globe logo. When we went through the receiving line, the captain noticed it and commented that we had been sailing with them for a long time. We accumulated so many of those pins that I had cufflinks made for DH and earrings made for me. 

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

3 minutes ago, LocoLoco1 said:

A Premium experience for a Premium $price$ vs a Budget voyage for cheap aboard 1 ship has been around for centuries. Methinks HAL nearly has ‘a ship within a ship’ now ie Hydro-Spa Rm, Cabanas, PinnacleDining ‘No Lobster 4U’ etc. but without the Velvet Rope, as least for now.. Back in the day, when disembarking from a long Cunard cruise, I commented to my spouse, “All those folks have been on the boat with US?? I don’t recognize a face.”

 

I wouldn't say HAL has a "ship within a ship."  Setups like NCL's Haven where your cabin, pool, and dining space (for breakfast, I think) are all connected lets you stay away from the riffraff. On HAL and Cunard, you have to venture from your suite to walk the hallways to get to your dining room or lounge or cabana (on HAL). So there are special places, but you aren't sequestered. 

 

I think HAL has a good menu of upsell experiences. I like that I can buy what I want (thermal suite) but not pay for things I don't want (cabana). I don't know if many people buy all of the options. As you've said, if you buy everything they offer, that will increase your costs a lot. 

 

I do think all the upsells on the MDR menu look tacky. But if they won't spring for lobster for everyone, at least those who want it can get it. I never bother. 

[Florida_gal_50]

21 minutes ago, LocoLoco1 said:

A Premium experience for a Premium $price$ vs a Budget voyage for cheap aboard 1 ship has been around for centuries. Methinks HAL nearly has ‘a ship within a ship’ now ie Hydro-Spa Rm, Cabanas, PinnacleDining ‘No Lobster 4U’ etc. but without the Velvet Rope, as least for now.. Back in the day, when disembarking from a long Cunard cruise, I commented to my spouse, “All those folks have been on the boat with US?? I don’t recognize a face.”

Hal is not a ship within a ship.  I don’t know why that hard to understand.

[RD64]

5 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

And I am all for that. Long live HAL's refusal to go back to a caste system onboard their ships.

Sadly it is only a matter of time. Princess will be making a major move with this type of segregation on the new Sun Princess. When (if) HAL announces a newbuild / new ship series, I think it will be inevitable.

[cruisemom42]

Just now, RD64 said:

Sadly it is only a matter of time. Princess will be making a major move with this type of segregation on the new Sun Princess. When (if) HAL announces a newbuild / new ship series, I think it will be inevitable.

 

I'll do what I do with other lines (like Celebrity); keep sailing the smaller/older ships until gone, then move on.

[OlsSalt]

My first RTW ship was the old Lloyd Triestino two class ship - circa 1977.

 

Regular class was mainly lots of young people traveling between Aus and NZ to the Mother Country UK and back, along with Italian immigrants traveling cheaply to Australian and homesick ones going back to Italy. 

 

First class was confined to a few decks above all the hordes of young people on the lower sun deck - first class being mainly older and more cosmopolitan  travelers.

 

We quickly spied our favorite first class passenger: a woman of a certain age, with very long silver hair wearing a very skimpy black bikini. She would drape herself over the railing,  looking down at all the young men below.

 

For the young men below, it became a scene out of a Fellini movie as they  tried plot a way to..... (ahem).... meet her in the later evening hours. But the rules were strict - no patronizing between the two classes. But who knows what silver passed hands when no one was looking. 

[RD64]

3 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

My first RTW ship was the old Lloyd Triestino two class ship - circa 1977.

 

Regular class was mainly lots of young people traveling between Aus and NZ to the Mother Country UK and back, along with Italian immigrants traveling cheaply to Australian and homesick ones going back to Italy. 

 

First class was confined to a few decks above all the hordes of young people on the lower sun deck - first class being mainly older and more cosmopolitan  travelers.

 

We quickly spied our favorite first class passenger: a woman of a certain age, with very long silver hair wearing a very skimpy black bikini. She would drape herself over the railing,  looking down at all the young men below.

 

For the young men below, it became a scene out of a Fellini movie as they  tried plot a way to..... (ahem).... meet her in the later evening hours. But the rules were strict - no patronizing between the two classes. But who knows what silver passed hands when no one was looking. 

Was that on the Marconi or the Galilei?

[OlsSalt]

21 minutes ago, RD64 said:

Was that on the Marconi or the Galilei?

The Galileo Galilei - were you on it too?

 

Allegedly the precursor of Celebrity's entry refurbished as the all suite Meridian,, and ushered  in the new world of full service destination cruising, as compared to low frills passenger ships. 

 

Later I cruised past her final resting place in the Straights of Malacca, and tossed out the Joker card from my old deck of Lloyd Triestino playing cards. What a grand adventure she offered in the 1970's - around the world - 60 days for under $1000.

[HappyInVan]

6 hours ago, LocoLoco1 said:

I’ll venture I could far MORE than double the cost of a HAL basic fare by simply signing up for the various $upcharges$. 

 

Don't have any illusions that you're getting a deal by sailing with a Basic fare. The airlines are an example where they've continuously degrade the value of the Basic fare. Forcing pax to pay up for basic services.

[LocoLoco1]

2 hours ago, OlsSalt said:

My first RTW ship was the old Lloyd Triestino two class ship - circa 1977.

 

Regular class was mainly lots of young people traveling between Aus and NZ to the Mother Country UK and back, along with Italian immigrants traveling cheaply to Australian and homesick ones going back to Italy. 

 

First class was confined to a few decks above all the hordes of young people on the lower sun deck - first class being mainly older and more cosmopolitan  travelers.

 

We quickly spied our favorite first class passenger: a woman of a certain age, with very long silver hair wearing a very skimpy black bikini. She would drape herself over the railing,  looking down at all the young men below.

 

For the young men below, it became a scene out of a Fellini movie as they  tried plot a way to..... (ahem).... meet her in the later evening hours. But the rules were strict - no patronizing between the two classes. But who knows what silver passed hands when no one was looking. 

 

[LocoLoco1]

1stClass/2ndClass HAL in the future seems to leave us CC’ers with mixed feelings. 

[iceman93]

18 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Interesting that you posted that statement.  HAL is the only line when I have seen some folks wear their Medallions around their neck (long after the luncheon) and many love to have on their 4-5* pins...I do also think that HAL qualifies as the most clickish of all the cruise lines we have cruised (and its now 16).

Is Disney one of the lines you sailed?  It became humorous (in a sad way) for me to see so much one-upsmanship on our Disney cruises.  People wear their keycards with pride to show off their platinum status, not to mention having it on a platinum lanyard layered with pins from their previous cruises, with their platinum tote bag on their shoulder.  And we STILL heard the humble bragging, "Oh, I see you're a platinum cruiser--that's great but, well, we've sailed on the inaugural voyages of the last two ships and the DVC sailing and the first Star Wars at Sea, and now we're on our 37th Disney cruise!"  We've only sailed Disney three times (and overall loved the experience), but this behavior from our fellow guests we could have done without.

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, iceman93 said:

Is Disney one of the lines you sailed?  It became humorous (in a sad way) for me to see so much one-upsmanship on our Disney cruises.  People wear their keycards with pride to show off their platinum status, not to mention having it on a platinum lanyard layered with pins from their previous cruises, with their platinum tote bag on their shoulder.  And we STILL heard the humble bragging, "Oh, I see you're a platinum cruiser--that's great but, well, we've sailed on the inaugural voyages of the last two ships and the DVC sailing and the first Star Wars at Sea, and now we're on our 37th Disney cruise!"  We've only sailed Disney three times (and overall loved the experience), but this behavior from our fellow guests we could have done without.

No, have never been on Disney although, with two young grandsons that day might be in our future.

 

Hank

[Hlitner]

Just for fun I will post an old tale (perviously posted).  Many years ago, DW and I decided to take back to back 7 day Caribbean cruises on HAL (big mistake).  During the turn around day at Port Everglades, we were waiting in a queue of folks to be allowed back onto the ship.  Two nearby ladies were arguing, quite loudly, about the number of cruise lines and cruises each had taken. After a few minutes, for whatever reason one turned to DW and in a loud obnoxious voice asked, "how many cruise lines have you been on?"  DW ignored her (at first) but the lady again, loudly, asked the question.  DW finally replied whatever it was (14 or 15 lines at that time).  The other lady then got angry and even more loudly said to DW, "we asked how many lines...not cruises."  By this time DW was getting annoyed and replied "I meant lines!"  That finally quieted them down.

 

But there certainly is a tendency of one upmanship we have often witnessed on HAL and IMHO it is low class.  It is one reason, among others, why we long ago stopped going to Mariners luncheons, Mariners award ceremonies (even our own), etc.  This is the kind of thing we would not expect to see on Seabourn, Silverseas, etc.   On one Seabourn cruise, at a reception for the entire ship, the captain did introduce one couple who actually had more days on Seabourn than the captain :).  It was a humorous moment but done in good fun.  But we did hear one nearby person quietly remark, "at least they are not giving them medallions!"  There was lots of snickering among those who heard that comment.  And yes, the captain did give them a nice gift (a very expensive bottle of Champagne).    We had actually previously met that couple over some cocktails and had no idea they had more than 1600 days on Seabourn.  

 

Hank

[RD64]

@Hlitner- I agree. The oneupmanship - especially the unsolicited kind can be quite annoying. A few years ago on the Veendam - I was alone on the bow as we were entering Halifax harbour - enjoying the moment. An elderly man came by and felt the need to tell me about how many days he had, his five star status, he only travels in Neptune suites, and he was on the maiden voyage of the Koningsdam - and NS. My blank stare and lack of acknowledgement caused him to move on.

[3rdGenCunarder]

I have been lucky enough to avoid the oneupmanship people. Often, at dinner on the first night, as we're getting to know our table companions, someone will ask "Have you cruised with HAL before?" I've never had someone announce that they're 5-star or in a Neptune suite or anything like that. The closest I've heard to bragging is "yes, several times," but I've never heard someone recite their cruise resume. If someone says yes to have you cruised before, the most common follow up I've heard or said is not "how many?" but "do you have a favorite?" That helps move the conversation along.

[highscar]

I am proud to wear earned pin’s on my Holland America lanyard.  My pins include one my late parents earned before the “stars” were. In those days they earned by mileage.   I have been stopped times by HAL  employees who inquired about them.  One two weeks ago on the Koninsdam was so interested he gave me his 150 year magnet pin that is awarded to staff. Tears. 

[OlsSalt]

I love having earned our various Medallions and Stars - because they represent the wonderful places we have cruised on HAL ships. Every cruise was a gem.  I see them as a badge of travelers; not braggarts. Love being in their company.

[Catlover54]

3 hours ago, RD64 said:

@Hlitner- I agree. The oneupmanship - especially the unsolicited kind can be quite annoying. A few years ago on the Veendam - I was alone on the bow as we were entering Halifax harbour - enjoying the moment. An elderly man came by and felt the need to tell me about how many days he had, his five star status, he only travels in Neptune suites, and he was on the maiden voyage of the Koningsdam - and NS. My blank stare and lack of acknowledgement caused him to move on.

 

This may  not necessarily have been  "oneupmanship."  Some people (especially if elderly) are just lonely, and aren't sure how to start a conversation with a stranger (also apparently alone) on deck on a cruise.  They may think that just starting to talk about their sailing experiences is an acceptable topic that might  interest others.  They may just crave some company, while 'enjoying the [magnificent] moment' and reflecting  back on their years of enjoyment. 

Others are in the early stages of dementia, and are disinhibited.

 

Of course, if the in person tone is nasty and domineering, motivations are likely less benign.  

On one cruise, with a loud person, it slowly became apparent the person was just deaf -- he could not hear how irritating he was when he bellowed at others.

 

I love people-watching on cruises (and am able to do more of it the times I cruise solo) and enjoy hearing different takes on people's travels, even if the communication methods are sometimes odd or even bizarre.  But of course it is nice to be able to just walk away (easier to do on a big ship than a small ship, and harder to do on a small excursion :)).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[shack]

52 minutes ago, Catlover54 said:

 

This may  not necessarily have been  "oneupmanship."  Some people (especially if elderly) are just lonely, and aren't sure how to start a conversation with a stranger (also apparently alone) on deck on a cruise.  They may think that just starting to talk about their sailing experiences is an acceptable topic that might  interest others.  They may just crave some company, while 'enjoying the [magnificent] moment' and reflecting  back on their years of enjoyment. 

Others are in the early stages of dementia, and are disinhibited.

 

Of course, if the in person tone is nasty and domineering, motivations are likely less benign.  

On one cruise, with a loud person, it slowly became apparent the person was just deaf -- he could not hear how irritating he was when he bellowed at others.

 

I love people-watching on cruises (and am able to do more of it the times I cruise solo) and enjoy hearing different takes on people's travels, even if the communication methods are sometimes odd or even bizarre.  But of course it is nice to be able to just walk away (easier to do on a big ship than a small ship, and harder to do on a small excursion :)).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"How are you enjoying the cruise?" is a good conversation starter for the lonely and restless, but then you open it up to "Not as much as the last 27 cruises on 15 lines..."  😉 

[bennybear]

I like HAL for the reason that it doesn’t matter whether I’m in a Neptune or oceanview, I’m treated the same.  I also have never had anyone ask about Mariner status or what cabin I have.

Now on Cunard, I was asked several times if we were in the grills?   It didn’t sit well with me.  Nor did the less than stellar choices at the MDR for the masses.

 

The only really bad experience on HAL  was the first morning of our circumnavigation of Japan, when another couple asked us if we weren’t sick of Japan, sadly, boors can be anywhere.  

Edited February 12, 2023 by bennybear

[mcrcruiser]

On 2/10/2023 at 2:13 PM, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

I wish I could remember where I saw it but there was something recently about a megaship that's going to divide the ship into "neighborhoods." You don't have to walk the length of the ship for anything. You choose the "neighborhood" you want and it's all there for you. So it sounds like they're designing the ship with multiples of everything. Sound like expensive construction.

  These neigborhoods are  in   the Royal Caribbean Oasis class ships . They start at 220,000  tons & larger   .Just take a look at Wonder of the Seas & now ICON  of The Seas & there are several huge ones before those  .These are the more recent giants  .All have  neighborhoods   .However ,non restrict you to stay there . when you even book a inside cabin you can go into all  the public areas  of those ships

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

On 2/10/2023 at 11:58 AM, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

About the only thing "steerage" passengers can't pay extra for is the Neptune Lounge. You can book an inside and buy the CO package to eat in that restaurant (on Pinnacle class ships). You can add a cabana. You can add dinners in Tamarind or Pinnacle restaurants. But the only way to get into the Neptune lounge is a neptune or pinnacle suite.

I agree with you.

And are very happy with Holland America 

[foodsvcmgr]

As someone who sails in regular verandas or sometimes mini suites I’m glad most everything on HAL remains open to all.

It’s annoying on Celebrity to have the forward sun decks off limits.

 

[cruisemom42]

2 hours ago, Catlover54 said:

 

This may  not necessarily have been  "oneupmanship."  Some people (especially if elderly) are just lonely, and aren't sure how to start a conversation with a stranger (also apparently alone) on deck on a cruise.  They may think that just starting to talk about their sailing experiences is an acceptable topic that might  interest others.  They may just crave some company, while 'enjoying the [magnificent] moment' and reflecting  back on their years of enjoyment. 

Others are in the early stages of dementia, and are disinhibited.

 

Of course, if the in person tone is nasty and domineering, motivations are likely less benign.  

On one cruise, with a loud person, it slowly became apparent the person was just deaf -- he could not hear how irritating he was when he bellowed at others.

 

I love people-watching on cruises (and am able to do more of it the times I cruise solo) and enjoy hearing different takes on people's travels, even if the communication methods are sometimes odd or even bizarre.  But of course it is nice to be able to just walk away (easier to do on a big ship than a small ship, and harder to do on a small excursion :)).

 

 

Wow, really a great post and one I agree with completely. 

 

So many people seem to lack empathy these days, always jumping to the conclusion that another person's motives are bad (bragging, one-upmanship) rather than a perhaps somewhat awkward way of communicating and trying to connect.  They seem to walk around with a chip on their shoulder, every little nuance of another's words analyzed and found wanting. Hair-trigger responses are all too common, people seem to be just waiting for an excuse to explode and dump on others.

 

Questions, too, are suspect. All the time on these boards I read of people being "offended" about being asked anything from what you do for a living to why are you cruising alone (for us solos)?  Unless proved otherwise, I always just take these as attempts to establish a connection or create a conversation, not as being rude or nosy. (Occasionally, but not very often, I am proved wrong.....)

 

We seem to have lost the ability to "converse" -- instead of a conversational gambit, we view a different opinion as an attack on our own beliefs.  Many people are no longer willing to share a table with others at dinner, so afraid they will not be able to find common ground with others.

 

It's all a bit sad...