Violation Passenger Vessel Service Act???

[ellencmp]

DH and I booked Edge for May of 2024. 10-Day Hawaii Cruise - Honolulu to Vancouver. Then we booked a 6-day Alaska Cruise - Vancouver to Seattle.

 

Today we received an email saying we are in violation of the Passenger Vessel Services Act.

 

Why can Celebrity sail from Hawaii to Vancouver and that not be a violation?

 

Why can Celebrity sail from Vancouver to Alaska and back to Seattle and that not be a violation?

 

But it becomes a violation when you put the two cruises back to back?

 

Why does booking a back-to-back-to-back that uses a Canadian port remove the violation?

 

Someone, please explain this to me.

 

Crazy Cruise Email_Redacted.pdfCrazy Cruise Email_Redacted.pdfCrazy Cruise Email_Redacted.pdf

 

 

 

 

[NutsAboutGolf]

Sorry for this as it must be disappointing,  Call and ask for compensation and maybe they'll throw ya an OBC or something

 

From google: "A distant foreign port is a port further than the nearby foreign ports. These ports must be outside of the Bahamas, Bermuda, Central America, North America and West Indies. The port of Bonaire, Curacao and the Netherland Antilles are, however, considered as distant foreign ports.
Currently, an exception is applied to Puerto Rico."

[cruisestitch]

The passenger services act says that you cannot take a ship from one U.s. port to a different US port without visiting some, and this is important, distant foreign port.  The act also sets out which places qualify as distant foreign ports. No place your proposed itinerary qualifies. So you cannot take the ship from Hawaii to Seattle because there is no distant foreign port on the itinerary.

 

Looking at each leg separately, the first leg starts in the US and ends in Canada. PVSA doesn’t come in to play because those are not both US ports.

 

Same with the second leg. You start in Canada and end in the US. No violation.

 

It’s when you put the two together that you run into trouble.

 

By the way, and this doesn’t come in to play on your proposed trip but people always ask, how come you can go from Seattle to Alaska and back to Seattle with only a visit to Victoria. Victoria isn’t a distant foreign port. That’s correct.  But those itineraries begin and end in the same US city. To go on a closed loop cruise, which seattle-Seattle would be, you only need to visit some foreign port. Not a distant one, any one will do.

 

sadly, the visit to Canada in your proposed itinerary does not bring it into compliance with PVSA.

[Arizona Wildcat]

This has come up before and we agree it makes no sense.  Cruisestitch has explained it well.  This really only seems to come up with Hawaii paired with a cruise from Vancouver that ends in the US.  Thus according to PVSA (which is an ancient law) you are starting and ending your crying without a distant port on a foreign vessel.

Sorry

[Ferry_Watcher]

At least you are finding this out over a year out.

[Michael1965]

Why does adding the Seattle to Seattle closed loop after the Vancouver to Seattle cruise remove the violation, since the voyage is still starting in Honolulu and ending in Seattle?

[mahasamatman]

9 minutes ago, Michael1965 said:

Why does adding the Seattle to Seattle closed loop after the Vancouver to Seattle cruise remove the violation, since the voyage is still starting in Honolulu and ending in Seattle?

 

It doesn't.

[Ferry_Watcher]

25 minutes ago, Michael1965 said:

since the voyage is still starting in Honolulu and ending in Seattle?

 

You answered your own question

[Michael1965]

So, Celebrity's "solution" does not actually solve the problem.  We will have to look at other options for the Alaska leg, maybe get off Edge in Vancouver, stay in the Pacific Northwest for a few days and pick up Edge in Seattle on May 17 or Solstice in Seattle on May 12, the day after we get off Edge in Vancouver.

[whitshel]

The example wasn't meant after the one way cruises. That was just an example, closed loop cruises only need to visit a foreign port

[Michael1965]

3 minutes ago, whitshel said:

The example wasn't meant after the one way cruises. That was just an example, closed loop cruises only need to visit a foreign port

If you read the email from Celebrity, their first "solution" is to add the May 17 Seattle to Seattle sailing to resolve the violation.  The issue is that doing that does NOT in fact resolve the violation, as the voyage is still starting in Honolulu and ending in Seattle.  The only way it would have worked is if the second leg ended in Vancouver.  I guess now I understand why the northbound/southbound Alaska cruises all have Vancouver as the southern terminus.

[JLMcruise]

Contact congress - they are the ones enforcing this law.

[lovecruzin]

Does the Hawaii to Vancouver portion stop in Victoria? There have been cases in the past where a passenger was allowed to disembark in Victoria, then make their way to Vancouver to board the 2nd cruise.

[Cruise Junky]

You only have to look at the embarkation port and the disembarkation port. You’re doing a one way Honolulu to Seattle without hitting a foreign DISTANT port.  Can’t be done.  See if you can find another ship to do the Alaska portion.  

[Cruising Is Bliss]

Adding Seattle to Seattle doesn't help. Seattle to Vancouver would. The only thing that counts is where you first board a specific ship and where you end up and get off THAT ship. Doesn't matter how the cruise line chops that ship's overall voyage into different cruises. That ship is still on-boarding you in one US port and shoving you and all your baggage out the gangway in another US port.

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by Cruising Is Bliss

[Michael1965]

7 hours ago, lovecruzin said:

Does the Hawaii to Vancouver portion stop in Victoria? There have been cases in the past where a passenger was allowed to disembark in Victoria, then make their way to Vancouver to board the 2nd cruise.

Unfortunately, it doesn't.  We just won't be able to do our originally booked back to back.  The only case where Celebrity's idea of adding a third leg to the voyage to resolve the violation would work is if the third leg ended in Vancouver.

[WestLakeGirl]

Is the Seattle-Seattle portion on the same ship?  If so, it doesm’t solve the problem.

[WestLakeGirl]

1 hour ago, Michael1965 said:

Unfortunately, it doesn't.  We just won't be able to do our originally booked back to back.  The only case where Celebrity's idea of adding a third leg to the voyage to resolve the violation would work is if the third leg ended in Vancouver.

Exactly!

[The_Big_M]

As you see, this law causes complications for the cruise line too, so it's one they would prefer wasn't there. Just a law they have to comply with, though.

[Michael1965]

41 minutes ago, WestLakeGirl said:

Is the Seattle-Seattle portion on the same ship?  If so, it doesm’t solve the problem.

Yes, as Celebrity suggested, it would be a back to back to back on the same ship, still ending up being Honolulu to Seattle, so still violating the Passenger Vessel Services Act.

[bEwAbG]

I bet they would have you debark in Victoria on that third cruise to make it legal.  That has been a solution for some in the past, if I recall correctly.  They seem to have this problem with this itinerary every year.  At least they're now looking at it this far in advance.  Sometimes there are posts on here where someone at Celebrity doesn't catch it until much closer to the cruise date. 

 

Solstice leaves on May 12 round-trip Vancouver, so that might be a possibility if you want to change ships after staying a night in Vancouver.  Doesn't get you to Seattle, of course, but it has you on two cruises in a row.  Other option would be to book another cruise line. 

[gerelmx]

13 hours ago, ellencmp said:

DH and I booked Edge for May of 2024. 10-Day Hawaii Cruise - Honolulu to Vancouver. Then we booked a 6-day Alaska Cruise - Vancouver to Seattle.

 

Today we received an email saying we are in violation of the Passenger Vessel Services Act.

 

Why can Celebrity sail from Hawaii to Vancouver and that not be a violation?

 

Why can Celebrity sail from Vancouver to Alaska and back to Seattle and that not be a violation?

 

But it becomes a violation when you put the two cruises back to back?

 

Why does booking a back-to-back-to-back that uses a Canadian port remove the violation?

 

Someone, please explain this to me.

 

Crazy Cruise Email_Redacted.pdfCrazy Cruise Email_Redacted.pdfCrazy Cruise Email_Redacted.pdf 883.77 kB · 28 downloads

 

 

 

 

 

If you book the 3rd cruise May 17 will break the violation because you have a stop in Victoria

[mom says]

Instead of doing a B2B that ends in Seattle, can you find a S2S where the second leg ends in Vancouver? Or where you have a day between the 2 legs and on 2 different ships?

[BlerkOne]

Do a side to side and you're good. B2B on the same ship without a stop in a DISTANT foreign port is a violation. A foreign flagged ship, with few exceptions, can't operate as a ferry.

[markeb]

1 hour ago, gerelmx said:

 

If you book the 3rd cruise May 17 will break the violation because you have a stop in Victoria

They'd have to leave the ship in a day early in Victoria. Which may be what Celebrity is actually suggesting. Then the three legs would become Honolulu to Victoria, which is not a PVSA violation.

 

Just stopping in Victoria doesn't solve the issue.