Gratuity is Out Of Hand

[Princessfan20]

9 minutes ago, PTMary said:

Not impactable at all. At the end of a cruise, all monetary matters are reconciled by the purser and his department. Every passenger's account is verified for expenditures made and if they are paid for. Every passenger's account will have recorded what package, if any, the passenger has, or whether that passenger has prepaid the gratuities if no package was purchased. If a passenger reduces their tips by 50%, it is recorded when the reduction is made, and the financial software onboard will attach it to the passenger's account.

 

If at the end of the cruise the system flags a passenger's reduction, it will be taken into account by the purser and adjustments will be made accordingly. All cash tips received must be submitted by the crew (which they are required to by contract obligations) and will be recorded in the crew member's account. If tips have not been reduced, they will be reimbursed that tip amount in their paycheck. If tips have been reduced, or removed completely, then the crew member's account will be deducted a comparable cash amount to what was submitted to be applied to the tip pool. 

 

Anyone in finance will see that this is a simple and easy process, helped greatly by advanced financial software. 

 

BTW: if a crew member tries to hide cash tips, they risk being disciplined, which could, in extreme cases, result in immediate firing.

 

 

 

We have been told that auto-gratuities are split fleet wide and just not to that specific ship.

[c-boy]

4 hours ago, cruzsnooze said:

You're welcome to disagree and present different opinions but insults are not welcome. FLAME SUIT ENGAGED but hopefuuly not needed. 

     There are several areas that the newest suggested  gratuity irks me. What used to be reasonable was the dinning room staff and the room steward. Now they have everyone on board included. Revenue generating areas would be cruise directors (think Bingo) gym classes, shops, shore excursion desk, guest services and of course internet cafe tech, photography dept.   Beside the Captain and officers  who's left out.

      Do different staterooms use different levels of service? There may be a slight difference in the time it takes to service  different cabin categories but not a huge difference and no other service is elevated. Unless in Reserve class the rest remains the same and I'm already paying an elevated service fee in club class. Isn't that $40-$110 PP PD a service fee for club class because it's not higher quality food.  I believe the begging/suggestion of gratuity and who is in the pool has grown to an unreasonable level. It's irrelevant what one can afford it's about fairness and transparency and value. When I extend a gratuity in every case other then on a cruise I know what I'm giving and to whom. 

 

What is a Crew Appreciation?

The crew appreciation is a daily (adjustable) amount added to your onboard account and pooled in order to recognize the many crew members in the Bar, Dining, Entertainment, Housekeeping, Guest Services, Galley and Onboard Revenue areas and entertainment areas throughout our fleet who contribute to the guest experience. The daily amount of the Crew Appreciation is based on stateroom category: $14.50 per guest in Interior, Oceanview and Balcony, $15.50 per guest in Mini-Suite and Reserve Collection, $16.50 per guest in Suites. Effective on voyages departing February 20, 2023 and beyond, the daily amount is $16 per guest in Interior, Oceanview and Balcony, $17 per guest in Mini-Suite and Reserve Collection, and $18 per guest in Suites

🤷‍♂️ so what is it that your hoping to accomplish with this post ?  I have been enjoying the cruising lifestyle for over two decades, and all that time I knew exactly what the cost and whom I was paying for.  Although some digging might be involved the information was/is available. I'm certain that CCL won't be able or willing to provide a line item receipt of every individual who receives a portion of the daily service charge. Now state and federal gratuities/taxes...... 

 

Hmmmmmm .....

[PTMary]

1 minute ago, Princessfan20 said:

 

We have been told that auto-gratuities are split fleet wide and just not to that specific ship.

 

So? Do you actually think that the company's financial matters are by individual ship only? EVERYTHING is run through the corporate financial management system, which in seconds can determine where, and to whom, funds need to be allocated to and when. Just like every major company in the world does. 

[wowzz]

7 minutes ago, PTMary said:

 

Just standard fares for peak months summer months (our friends are both teachers). No packages or add-ons were priced out as they would need to carefully watch their budget. That is why we were focusing more on P&O than on other cruise lines. 

 

Alas, the husband passed due to Covid and we are no longer pricing cruise. 

You do need to take obc into account when comparing before and after prices, as it is a major part of P&O's pricing architecture.  For example,  on our next P&O cruise,  our obc is almost £1,000, equivalent to a 20% reduction in the cruise fare. 

[MissP22]

2 hours ago, Potstech said:

As long as their is a daily gratuity we will only tip our room steward an amount we feel is proper for services rendered.  That is and will always be the way we do it. It is not up to the customer to increase the pay for all the employees of the cruise line.  That is what the cruise fare is for.  We agree that the tipping culture is getting out of hand and will no longer participate.  Let the cruise lines pay a "decent" salary as we will no longer subsidize it.

Ever since they raised the gratuities,  our additional gratuitie has been trimmed.

[Pizzasteve]

11 minutes ago, c-boy said:

🤷‍♂️ so what is it that your hoping to accomplish with this post ?  I have been enjoying the cruising lifestyle for over two decades, and all that time I knew exactly what the cost and whom I was paying for.  Although some digging might be involved the information was/is available. I'm certain that CCL won't be able or willing to provide a line item receipt of every individual who receives a portion of the daily service charge. Now state and federal gratuities/taxes...... 

 

Hmmmmmm .....

Um...of course they can track every penny.

 

Financial accounting for a public company requires that all financial payments be recorded in the General Ledger and not only must they be tracked but there must be internal financial controls sufficient to allow audits and fraud prevention.

 

This is a basic requirement of both IFRS (relevant accounting standard for publicly traded companies) and their board members who are accountable to the tax authorities.  Software tracks and records every allocation and payments received and dispursed to the penny.

 

That said, on topic we have the means to pay gratuities so we do so (wealthy and privledged). I try not to judge those on fixed tight budgets who cant afford to cruise without removing a gratuity that is automatically added.   Removeing it if you cant afford to be generous to the hard working staff, isnt a crime IMHO.

 

I am annoyed that after payment in full, the automatic gratuity was increased to above what I agreed to when I booked the cruise, without opportunity to pay at the agreed amount.  That seemed clumsily handled by corporate, punishing those who didnt buy the plus package, while making those who did whole.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Pizzasteve

[c-boy]

 🤐  ixnay to my post 

Edited March 1, 2023 by c-boy

[Denversail]

I think this is a tough topic. I live in the USA and I’m suffering from some serious tip fatigue. I’ve always been a good tipper. Since the pandemic a ton of places are wanting tips for non waiting service. I thought that was why we get pick up? It used to be a cheaper option than eating in a restaurant. On top of the inflation that has already been passed to me as a consumer many services that didn’t use to expect a tip now want 15 - 30 %. That is like a 30% to 45% increase to me the consumer. It is out of control. Like I said I am exhausted by it all and a little fed up.

[Guest ldtr]

45 minutes ago, cr8tiv1 said:

@ldtrNone of this would even be under discussion if Princess did not raise the beverage package, take away the coffee card, added. useless stuff like the desserts/gym classes. 

 

Most everyone (I'm stretching it here), accepted the $40 as a unpleasant but doable "necessity".  

 

Again, "fixed" something that was not broken. Totally their fault.

Princess packages are still less their competition which is primarily Celebrity.

[Pizzasteve]

6 minutes ago, Denversail said:

I think this is a tough topic. I live in the USA and I’m suffering from some serious tip fatigue. I’ve always been a good tipper. Since the pandemic a ton of places are wanting tips for non waiting service. I thought that was why we get pick up? It used to be a cheaper option than eating in a restaurant. On top of the inflation that has already been passed to me as a consumer many services that didn’t use to expect a tip now want 15 - 30 %. That is like a 30% to 45% increase to me the consumer. It is out of control. Like I said I am exhausted by it all and a little fed up.

Kind of agree.  Was in tipping heaven when I lived in Japan.  All restaurants include wages in basic food costs, as advertised.  A 500 yen bowl of soup was 500 yen.  No tipping even taxi drivers (who also wore white gloves).

[mtnesterz]

Good observation @c-boy.This thread was interesting reading, learning about comparisons of service fees on different lines, who actually received the amounts collected and government tax laws... When discussion falls to stating fallacies, what's the point.

 

 

[malba2366]

4 minutes ago, Denversail said:

I think this is a tough topic. I live in the USA and I’m suffering from some serious tip fatigue. I’ve always been a good tipper. Since the pandemic a ton of places are wanting tips for non waiting service. I thought that was why we get pick up? It used to be a cheaper option than eating in a restaurant. On top of the inflation that has already been passed to me as a consumer many services that didn’t use to expect a tip now want 15 - 30 %. That is like a 30% to 45% increase to me the consumer. It is out of control. Like I said I am exhausted by it all and a little fed up.

 

I agree with you on that point.  I did tip 15-20% on pickup orders when restaurants were empty, but I no longer do so.  Everyone wants a tip these days...the most egregious I have seen is at the service desk at a local Porsche dealer.  I also believe that 15-20% tips should not be consider almost mandatory in places where the wait staff now make the same wages as everyone else.

[SantaFeFan]

20 minutes ago, Denversail said:

I think this is a tough topic. I live in the USA and I’m suffering from some serious tip fatigue. I’ve always been a good tipper. Since the pandemic a ton of places are wanting tips for non waiting service. I thought that was why we get pick up? It used to be a cheaper option than eating in a restaurant. On top of the inflation that has already been passed to me as a consumer many services that didn’t use to expect a tip now want 15 - 30 %. That is like a 30% to 45% increase to me the consumer. It is out of control. Like I said I am exhausted by it all and a little fed up.

 

I agree. I would prefer we get away from the tipping culture completely. It would make things easier for all consumers, but possibly at the expense of those who rely on tips. 

 

But, as long as this flawed system remains in place I will abide by it and try to support those dependent of those tips. The last thing I want to do is to benefit financially by reducing or eliminating the tips and as a result causing financial hardships to those I depend on who are in service industries and cannot change the system they are forced to work in. It's not their fault, so I can't in all conscience punish them. 

Edited March 1, 2023 by SantaFeFan

[SantaFeFan]

25 minutes ago, malba2366 said:

I absolutely want the crew to make a good wage, but the "gratuity" system is complete garbage.  The system forces the good cruisers to subsidize cheapskates and scumbags who don't pay the gratuities or leave a minimal gratuity.  The cruise lines should add a mandatory crew gratuity to all bookings and then guests would be free to tip on top if they wish, with the clear understanding that it is not required or expected.

 

That is what NCL does. To reduce or remove the tips, passengers must contact corporate headquarters after the cruise by submitting a form with detailed reasons for the reduction or removal. I am willing to bet that they don't get very many of those requests. 

[Denversail]

4 minutes ago, SantaFeFan said:

 

I agree. I would prefer we get away from the tipping culture completely. It would make things easier for all consumers, but possibly at the expense of those who rely on tips. 

 

But, as long as this flawed system remains in place I will abide by it and try to support those dependent of those tips. The last thing I want to do is to benefit financially from reducing or eliminating the tips and as a result causing financial hardships to those I depend on who are in service industries and cannot change the system they are forced to work in. It's not their fault, so I can't in all conscience punish them. 

The problem is that these companies are now recruiting workers for jobs with tips. So where is the profit? Capitalism

[nini]

5 hours ago, NavyCruiser said:

Our group of 14 just came back from a 7 nights Valentine's week cruise.  We all agree to pool our cash "tips" together for our Waiter, Asst Waiter, & Section Head Waiter, who took care of our tables of 6 & 8 in the MDR.  Also "tipped" our cabin attendant in cash.  All with cash "tips" half on first day & half on 6th day.  We "tipped" extra for lobster night.  It took less than 2 minutes at customer service desk to remove auto grats for all 7 cabins at the same time on the first day.  We all also "tipped" extra at breakfasts, lunches, & tea time for our group.

In all, think we all cash "tipped" 20% over & above the auto grats amount if we just left it alone, but everyone believed that we truly received Outstanding service for all staff.

This is our preferred way to "tip" as a group.

We've done it this way for 10+ group cruises, from groups of 12 - 40.

Not right.  Not wrong.  Just the perfect way for us, & don't really what others feel about it...

 

I hope you know that when the "auto tips" are removed, then the staff are NOT permitted to keep the cash! We keep the automatic gratuities on and tip extra in cash to those individuals who are excellent and go above and beyond.

[icat2000]

3 hours ago, SantaFeFan said:

 

Not a good reason. As travelers, we all should respect the cultures of the places we visit, including on a cruise ship. To defy a culture because they don't like it is being a selfish traveler. It's no better than visiting another country and disrespecting how they do things there. 

I like the Australian model. Grats are included in the fare price. So whether you tip to the crew is above and beyond the requirements. So no crew get stiffed as the payment was already made. No long lines for people looking to remove tips. Plus I think its a law here too 🙂 but it makes much more sense.

 

 

[Kwaj girl]

5 hours ago, NavyCruiser said:

Our group of 14 just came back from a 7 nights Valentine's week cruise.  We all agree to pool our cash "tips" together for our Waiter, Asst Waiter, & Section Head Waiter, who took care of our tables of 6 & 8 in the MDR.  Also "tipped" our cabin attendant in cash.  All with cash "tips" half on first day & half on 6th day.  We "tipped" extra for lobster night.  It took less than 2 minutes at customer service desk to remove auto grats for all 7 cabins at the same time on the first day.  We all also "tipped" extra at breakfasts, lunches, & tea time for our group.

In all, think we all cash "tipped" 20% over & above the auto grats amount if we just left it alone, but everyone believed that we truly received Outstanding service for all staff.

This is our preferred way to "tip" as a group.

We've done it this way for 10+ group cruises, from groups of 12 - 40.

Not right.  Not wrong.  Just the perfect way for us, & don't really what others feel about it...

 

BUT....if you have removed auto-grats then the ones who accept your cash are obliged to turn it in or they could be disciplined/fired.  Crew is advised of who has removed auto-grats.  They know who you are.

[Bobbiegentry]

Tip or don’t tip. 
Individual choice. 
No right or wrong answer. 
No one should allow themself to be tip shamed into participating or not participating. 
If a given cruise line wishes/insists on total participation in tipping, it will be made mandatory by making tips an integral part of the total fare.