Westerdam - Organizational Nightmare - Is This Just An Isolated Case or Do I Need To Pause Cruising?

[Longwood50]

I just completed a trip on the Westerdam that was 27 days and it started in Singapore, went to Indonesia, returned to Singapore before heading to the Phillipines, Taiwan, and Japan.  The first two pictures are of the "tender" operations.  Anyone who had an independent tour was required to first go to guest relations, provide proof you had a shore excursion, then be put on a list, go to the tender ticket location, pick up your Priority tender operation and then meet prior to the tender.  Now mind you despite having the priority tender ticket, at the meeting location, the representative would call out your cabin number to see if you were there.  Needless to say, some guests were omitted.  Required immigration applications, changes in docking schedules, meeting face to face on board with immigration officials, etc were sprung on the passengers last minute. In one case 4 pm the day prior to arrival, with the offer from the ship that they would allow you a "free phone call" to your tour operator to make adjustments for the now much later arrival at the tender port.  Some guests without tender priority tickets did not have their floors called until 12:30 PM.  Some guests on the leg prior to our start on March 14, said the wait for a tender was upwards of 2.5 hours.  This had nothing to do with changes by the countries.  The immigration officials were already on board from the prior country yet the requirement to meet face to face with them, provide your physical documentation in addition to uploading it was sprung on passengers literally the afternoon prior to arrival in most ports. 

This is the queue for "priority" passengers to go ashore

 

 

This was the line at the meeting station for Priority Tender passengers as they waited to hear if their cabin had made the printed list. That is despite having a Priorty Tender ticket already in hand. 






This one one of the food lines in the Lido.  The picture does not do it complete justice.  You can't see people are also trying to queue in line from the other direction.  So the poor wait staff had no idea who was actually in line.  In some cases guests who waited patiently in a line were turned away by the wait staff who told them the line started on the other side.  Two simple signs,  Line Starts Here with an arrow and a second sign with Line Starts on the other side would have elimiated the confusion, the frustration of guests and as said, the poor wait staff who had to try and manage the situation that they did not create. 

Is everyone experiencing this on their cruises?  This is now my 5th post covid cruise on 3 different lines and in 37 prior cruises I have never experienced such mass disorganization, lack of organization, and lack of communication.  If this is now the "new norm"  I am going to pause future cruises.  One of the passengers on the leg prior to my embarkation in Singapore desribed it as follows.  I WAS NOT ON A CRUISE I WAS ON A QUEUE. 

[iceman93]

I was on the Westerdam in January and it wasn't nearly as disorganized as what you're experiencing.  Perhaps the ship wasn't sailing as full, or maybe the country officials did a better job coordinating with HAL?

 

The tender operations were inefficient and slow, but nothing like what you described with multiple check-in areas, multiple waiting areas, and a general lack of information.  The Lido was also never disorganized like that; I don't remember queues running into each other from various directions or staff turning guests away.

 

I'm sorry it's so bad on your cruise!  Have you provided feedback either in person or via the app?

[lyndarra]

I was also on the January cruise and did not experience anything like you have described. Tendering, IMO, worked ok albeit a little slow but I've experienced much worse pre-COVID for Indonesia (Lombok and Komodo). In Lido I saw "Line starts here" signs although they were often ignored, that's not the crew's fault. The biggest queue was on disembarking in Singapore which, to me, seemed to be caused by immigration after which there was a massive queue for taxis. 

 

[ski ww]

Sounds & looks like a nightmare. We have never experienced anything like it during tender ports. Doesn't make for a good memory of your cruise. 

[Longwood50]

3 hours ago, iceman93 said:

I was on the Westerdam in January and it wasn't nearly as disorganized as what you're experiencing.  Perhaps the ship wasn't sailing as full, or maybe the country officials did a better job coordinating with HAL?

 

The tender operations were inefficient and slow, but nothing like what you described with multiple check-in areas, multiple waiting areas, and a general lack of information.  The Lido was also never disorganized like that; I don't remember queues running into each other from various directions or staff turning guests away.

I have no idea, the leg before ours starting on Feb 14 was reportedly worse.  After talking to guest relations a couple of times they asked if I would like to talk to a senior officer.  Instead, they got me with the head of guest relations who confessed that the changes to the tender operations had not gone as planned but they were better than the prior segment where guests waited 2.5 hours to get on a tender.  I was standing next to a ships officer on the Lido deck as he approached the counter for food and as he gazed left and right to see if he was cutting in front of someone he asked a guest if he was in the right line.  I said to him, and you are confused?  Think about the passengers.  A simple sign with an arrow saying line starts here and a second sign indicating that the line started from the other end would have ended all that confusion easily.  I felt genuinely sorry for the Lido service workers since they took the complaints from people who were waiting in line, and and times told to start again because they inadvertantly approached the serving area from the wrong time.  The majority of time, the servers tried as best they could but if someone stopped to obtain food, others believing it to be the end of the line cut in because they didn't know where the food queue was suppose to begin.  It honestly was like they were operating their first cruise and hadn't worked out any common sense procedures.  

 

[MISTER 67]

Holland America is a mess right and they have lost our business, if they continue down the same path, they will soon be out of business.

[Longwood50]

1 hour ago, lyndarra said:

. In Lido I saw "Line starts here" signs although they were often ignored, that's not the crew's fault.

There were "inconsistent" placement of signs that said Line Starts Here.  Some days and some stations yes, and on others no.  However if you started on lets say the wrong side of the food station, you had no idea you were on the wrong side.  There was no sign that said, line starts on the far side.  So often you saw two queuing lines.  One from the correct direction and one from the wrong direction. That is when confusion reigned since both groups of passengers thought they were correctly waiting in line.  At time, more than once guests were advised their 5 to 10 minute wait was for naught and they should enter the back of the correct line.  You are correct, not the wait staffs fault.  Just poorly thought out administration by the ships personnel who were charged with how best to organize the lines in the Lido.  

[lyndarra]

In some cases the line starts from both sides of a serving station where there are two servers. IIRC the salad station was one or it may have been omelette . There was a "Line starts here" at both ends however I did see people queueing on one side only. Confusing.

Edited March 18, 2023 by lyndarra

[cruisemom42]

Oh dear. I join Westerdam on March 27th. Sounds like I should pack an extra suitcase full of patience.

 

I hope some of the issues you experienced with immigration will not be as bad on this cruise but HAL has provided zero clarity on what is needed when we leave Japan to visit Taiwan for 2 days, then return and later visit S. Korea for a day.

 

[mightycruisequeen]

All those crazy lines, plus everyone all masked up? 

Not exactly my idea of  a real rootin-tootin good time!  

[Reagan0712]

I just got off the Eurodam and the Lido at busy times was a nightmare. One would think those people hadn’t eaten in weeks or it was going to be their last meal. Pushing, elbowing, and line cutting was a daily occurrence. The only line that was somewhat organized was the omelet station where there were two lines from either side meeting at the two omelet makers.

It would also help if the 8x10 menu option boards that are placed on top of the counters were printed in a bigger font. That would eliminate the people stopping in the middle of the aisle to lean in to read what’s available.

It was also tiring to try to get the employees to cut loose some butter. They acted like each piece given out would be deducted from their pay.

[Catlover54]

Were the Lido masks required by HAL or by Singapore?

[3rdGenCunarder]

9 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

Two simple signs,  Line Starts Here with an arrow and a second sign with Line Starts on the other side would have elimiated the confusion, the frustration of guests and as said, the poor wait staff who had to try and manage the situation that they did not create. 

 

I have wanted to see this for years! I try to avoid peak times, but even so, it can be confusing knowing where to line up. Another thing that makes the Lido awkward is the spae for walking. The sitting area is bordered by a low wall, but at some point in the past, more tables (for 2) were added on the walkway side of that wall. So you've got people in line, people trying to figure out what's where, and people just trying to walk through in a space that's too narrow for all that traffic.

 

1 hour ago, Reagan0712 said:

I just got off the Eurodam and the Lido at busy times was a nightmare. One would think those people hadn’t eaten in weeks or it was going to be their last meal. Pushing, elbowing, and line cutting was a daily occurrence. The only line that was somewhat organized was the omelet station where there were two lines from either side meeting at the two omelet makers.

It would also help if the 8x10 menu option boards that are placed on top of the counters were printed in a bigger font. That would eliminate the people stopping in the middle of the aisle to lean in to read what’s available.

It was also tiring to try to get the employees to cut loose some butter. They acted like each piece given out would be deducted from their pay.

 

I was on Eurodam in January, and I didn't see bad behavior like that. But I eat breakfast early and lunch is usually just the salad bar, so I avoid the mail crowd.

 

I agree about larger signs. I'm short and have to look between people who are in line. And yeah, I don't know what the deal is with butter. Sometimes I got huge amounts and other times tiny amounts. I appreciate that they're cutting down on trash by not having the wrapped butter pats, but it's one more thing to have to ask for. 

 

[OlsSalt]

Maybe too many new cruisers who don't fully understand there are unwritten "cruise manners"? Because they are unwritten, how could they.  Or come from cultures that do not understand queuing up.  Creating two opposing lines at the Lido -when did that ever start spontaneously by passengers? 

 

 Might be a new reality cruise lines need to face rather than assuming passengers on their own will be "orderly" when it comes to lining up, which in the past HAL passengers were almost uniformly so.  

 

Even when port officials pulled last minute switches, like requiring a face to face meeting when leaving a port - surprise to all of us returning after a day in port.  Apparently the shore authorities were running a shake-down operation to avoid this and our noble captain said no, so they forced this last minute "procedures" on us. 

 

Worst off-boarding experiences we ever had were in India several years ago - where every port had new regulations and gauntlets we had to run. Total nightmare, and the onboard staff worked hard late into the night to meet the ever changing shores-side regulations, which were entirely India's fault. 

 

So this could be one-off, or not. But does not bode well for the future of onboard life on cruise ships. 

[AncientWanderer]

The Lido line always confuses me.  I look for the condiments placed at the end and assume the line starts at the other end, so you can add your condiments once you have your food.  That usually works.  Usually.

[MISTER 67]

1 hour ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

I have wanted to see this for years! I try to avoid peak times, but even so, it can be confusing knowing where to line up. Another thing that makes the Lido awkward is the spae for walking. The sitting area is bordered by a low wall, but at some point in the past, more tables (for 2) were added on the walkway side of that wall. So you've got people in line, people trying to figure out what's where, and people just trying to walk through in a space that's too narrow for all that traffic.

 

 

I was on Eurodam in January, and I didn't see bad behavior like that. But I eat breakfast early and lunch is usually just the salad bar, so I avoid the mail crowd.

 

I agree about larger signs. I'm short and have to look between people who are in line. And yeah, I don't know what the deal is with butter. Sometimes I got huge amounts and other times tiny amounts. I appreciate that they're cutting down on trash by not having the wrapped butter pats, but it's one more thing to have to ask for. 

 

We were on the NA in December and butter was as valuable as gold. 

[Eaglecw]

We avoid the Buffet like it was the plague. We don’t like the crowds in the buffet so if we have to go to the buffet we go early or just go to the MDR. I can’t believe that butter is still like gold or they act like it’s coming out of there pay check. On our last cruise we had breakfast with a lady that had a tub of “Kerry Gold” butter with her.  She said she got tired of having to ask for butter so she bought her own. I sometimes bring my own favored coffee creamers.

[sfaaa]

13 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

I have no idea, the leg before ours starting on Feb 14 was reportedly worse.  After talking to guest relations a couple of times they asked if I would like to talk to a senior officer.  Instead, they got me with the head of guest relations who confessed that the changes to the tender operations had not gone as planned but they were better than the prior segment where guests waited 2.5 hours to get on a tender.  I was standing next to a ships officer on the Lido deck as he approached the counter for food and as he gazed left and right to see if he was cutting in front of someone he asked a guest if he was in the right line.  I said to him, and you are confused?  Think about the passengers.  A simple sign with an arrow saying line starts here and a second sign indicating that the line started from the other end would have ended all that confusion easily.  I felt genuinely sorry for the Lido service workers since they took the complaints from people who were waiting in line, and and times told to start again because they inadvertantly approached the serving area from the wrong time.  The majority of time, the servers tried as best they could but if someone stopped to obtain food, others believing it to be the end of the line cut in because they didn't know where the food queue was suppose to begin.  It honestly was like they were operating their first cruise and hadn't worked out any common sense procedures.  

 

I concur with the poor signage at Lido chow line. The signage was not well placed or very noticable. I had to tell a few people who cut in front of me to go line up at the other end. It was annoying.

[CNSJ]

Wow!

 

We were on the Westerdam this fall for 36 days and it was not like you are showing here!  We had several tender ports and they went well.  Minor hiccups in one port, but that was largely due to the first large (shore provided tender that holds 200+) bring used for a Urgent Medivac, 

 

Your pics don't look fun.  Waiting here from previous poster on why ship seems to be in mandatory masks.

 

[Longwood50]

10 hours ago, Catlover54 said:

Were the Lido masks required by HAL or by Singapore

HAL,

Masks required everywhere except when eating or drinking.  Masks required while getting food in the Lido. 

[ghstudio]

I’m onboard this cruise as well.  We have found the as expected awful search for tables, the scarcity of anyone to get wine, beer, orange juice, when we went, the lines were manageable or maybe I missed that there was a line although I looked.  I have a number of observations I’m about to post in a separate thread…both good and not good points….

[Reagan0712]

I do bring my own tea bags and Heinz ketchup packets so maybe I’ll have to add butter to my list. If this keeps up I’ll need a carryon for condiments.

As far as walking through the Lido, I agree that adding the 2 person tables severely cut down on walking space. What I started doing was cutting through the carpeted area with the tables. It was like being in an HOV lane.

The other thing I didn’t get on our cruise last week was the complete lack of salt/pepper shakers on the tables on the Sea View Pool area during meal times. We were in the Caribbean, why wouldn’t they expect that people would want to eat outside? I asked one steward about it and his response was “They are inside” 🙄

[Mary229]

I would write a detailed review about the tender/shore excursions team.   It is simply excessive to have them call out numbers to board the tender, your shore excursion sticker should suffice and if you don’t get there, too bad so sad.  Micro management generates these type of situations. I had similar micro management issues on a spring cruise which in my estimation was the fault of the shore excursions manager. 

I just completed a 35 day cruise on a fairly full ship with multiple tender ports and had no issues.
 

immigration issues are more likely caused by the government.  There are so many ships sailing full right now they are jockeying schedules to accommodate all.  I had to go through immigration in St Thomas instead of Fort Lauderdale. 

Edited March 19, 2023 by Mary229

[Reagan0712]

15 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

It is simply excessive to have them call out numbers to board the tender, your shore excursion sticker should suffice and if you don’t get there, too bad so sad.  Micro management generates these type of situations.

I was surprised that none of this happened on the Eurodam Panama Canal cruise. Shore excursions were, comparatively, quite loose. No meeting at the World Stage. No stickers. Every excursion said to meet on the pier. Once at the pier the excursion leaders were there with their little signs and gathered their groups together. The buses were at the pier waiting or a short walk away. Once our phones or keycards were scanned we were off.

[3rdGenCunarder]

2 hours ago, Mary229 said:

I would write a detailed review about the tender/shore excursions team.   It is simply excessive to have them call out numbers to board the tender, your shore excursion sticker should suffice and if you don’t get there, too bad so sad.  Micro management generates these type of situations. I had similar micro management issues on a spring cruise which in my estimation was the fault of the shore excursions manager. 

I just completed a 35 day cruise on a fairly full ship with multiple tender ports and had no issues.
 

immigration issues are more likely caused by the government.  There are so many ships sailing full right now they are jockeying schedules to accommodate all.  I had to go through immigration in St Thomas instead of Fort Lauderdale. 

 

You probably did immigration in St Thomas because it was your first American port after being in other countries. I've had to do immigration in San Juan for that reason.