Unconventional cruises

[shorne]

10 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

I wear basecall caps and other hats primarily as protection from sun, rain, cold, etc.  

 

 

 

And that's fine (though they might not afford much insulation in a Canadian winter). I just don't like to see them indoors. A friend of mine was annoyed to be asked to remove his cap at a restaurant, but I didn't blame the staff for upholding the rule that gentlemen do not wear hats indoors. 

[shorne]

9 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Viking will certainly meet many of the criteria you are looking for, since they have zero kids (minimum age is 18) and no casino onboard. Since they sell many of the cruises out a year, or more in advance, they have no incentive to offer deals on single occupancy. Single occupancy deals are generally only available on repositioning Trans-Atlantics, which may not sail at capacity.

 

Although the base fare on Viking is more expensive, you need to compare what each cruise line offers. When I compared the true overall price of our 2015 World Cruise on Princess to the 2020 World Cruise on Viking, the daily cost was virtually identical, but Viking's base price was almost double.

 

The other factor with Viking that we find impressive, is they treat pax as responsible adults. They have no restrictions on what can be brought aboard and do not charge corkage fees. You can bring aboard nice bottles of wine from a visit ashore and they will open them and serve them to you in the restaurants. In addition to excellent lecturers, they have an extensive onboard library, which operates on the honour system. No having to wait for the library to open and sign out a book, as they are all available 24/7.

 

Many of the islands you mentioned in the Pacific, Atlantic and Indian Oceans are not well frequented by cruise lines, but you can find cruises that visit them. Personally, I have been to most of the South Pacific islands multiple times, having completed 4-months of Australian cruising and 2 World Cruises. However, I have yet to visit most of the Atlantic/Indian Ocean islands, as I never worked those areas. Viking did have one of their World Cruises in 2019 visit some of them.

 

I concur with finding a travel agent with experience in the luxury, premium and expedition markets. For the South Pacific you can check out Paul Gaugin, who operate in the region year round. You can also check out world cruises and segments.

 

Thanks for the observations. Someone else had told me to focus on the overall cost rather than the surcharge for travelling alone, and I suppose that there's something to be said for that, although in practice the overall cost is likely to be high if there is a stiff surcharge unless, as you said, vacancies drive the fare down.

 

Some of the cruises to the polar regions also reduce or eliminate their single supplements. Perhaps the high cost of these and the limited interest in them yield a lot of unsold cabins.

 

I had assumed that this business of not allowing people to bring wine, beyond a token bottle or two, was a way to force them to consume the overpriced offerings on board. But maybe there's an element of responsibility, too—maintaining some control over consumption.

 

Paul Gauguin had an appealing itinerary about a month ago, and it even seemed affordable (maybe there were vacancies?), but I wasn't able to take advantage of it.

 

[shorne]

9 hours ago, Ferry_Watcher said:

 

I am not sure what the purpose is of your posting.  Is it 'I found this great cruise deal, but the ship has a casino, dancing, second rate entertainment, no library, and 98% of the passengers are not my intellectual equal, but somehow I have to make do?'

 

 

 

Not at all. I wasn't complaining, just asking candidly for recommendations that would be more in line with my admitted unconventional preferences. Quite a few people have made helpful suggestions. I try to do the same when, for example, someone asks me for a wine that matches a very particular profile.

 

Nor do I go around wondering who is or is not «my intellectual equal». But it's probably fair to assume that an especially cerebral atmosphere is unlikely to be found on a ship that removes its library in order to make space for go-karts or Mickey Mouse.

 

As you said, there are many other ways to travel. I availed myself of many of them long before setting foot on a cruise ship. They're still better choices for me, but I wouldn't mind exploring cruises that might also prove satisfactory.

[shorne]

7 hours ago, sleepingcat said:

good interesting thread has been started here, thanks.  I think as suggested above, you might find if you are willing to fly to Europe to start a cruise you will find more ships and lines which will suit you. Smaller ships can as you point out get in to more, and more interesting, ports. I well remember arriving at St Lucia I think it was, the Queen Mary II was at anchor off the island, not even in the harbour, and tendering its passengers ashore. our modest little ship, the Black Watch, sadly now decommissioned, sailed right in to the dock where we all piled off (actually only 650 passengers as I recall) and made our own adventures for the day.  out of the UK and Germany there are several ships and lines which do not take children, and cruises with lots of activities. 

 

Interesting. I should look for German cruises; hadn't thought about that, perhaps because Germany doesn't have much of a coast.

 

One British cruise line doesn't take anyone under age 50! Perhaps that's going a bit far: 49-year-olds don't seem like a distinctly immature group. But I do meet the standard (you can saw me open and count the rings). Maybe it's worth another look.

 

[shorne]

5 hours ago, 9tee2Sea said:

I don't think you would have to worry about children on your cruise.  33 days, I doubt you will find any.  Look into cruise lines that have "Single cabins".  They have their own special lounge, and dining room.  Since you are going to Iceland, hopefully you will be able to see the Northern Lights ( maybe take a special overnight tour is available).  Try not to poo-poo meeting other travelers.  You can be at a table in the buffet ( or where ever you choose to eat) and start a conversation with someone.  My most recent cruise was Dubai-Athens.  The overnight shore excursions were spectacular.  Not to assume anything, but just try going to an LGBTQ  mixer.  MANY single people ( straight, gay, whatever) that just want to have people to talk to.  See if you can get into a bridge table.  There are lots of things to do, and ways to meet fellow travelers, but the MOST IMPORTANT..you have to be open to everything.  If people see you are stand offish and hate to say it, feeling above everyone, then you will be guarded to have a bad cruise.

 

Loosen up, you will never see these people again.  So just adapt a different frame of mind

 

 

Norwegian has single cabins, with a lounge (not sure about a dining room) devoted to them. Perhaps they were all sold out, but a cruise to the South Pacific that I considered a few months ago just came up with double the fare (though tips and a few other charges were not doubled). I also wondered whether the lounge would really make up for the tininess of the room, which isn't much bigger than the bed.

 

On my other cruise, I never once went to the buffet; I ate only in the dining room, except for a couple of times when I just called room service. And I happened to be with a friend on that trip. We just had a table to ourselves. I'm disinclined to be assigned to a haphazard table with others, though open to eating with people whom I've met. So I've requested a table to myself for the first few nights. Admittedly that's no way to meet people…

 

Clever suggestion of going to a queer group. I would not have considered that.

 

Bridge was advertised on my other cruise, and I did show up, only to find that there was only a single table. I'd like to play again—I still have some master points from the last time I played, more than twenty years ago—, but I never find three other people with whom to play. Apparently there's some interest in bridge on this upcoming cruise (I've already asked).

 

I certainly don't feel above anyone else, though I am a bit standoffish or at least socially inept.

 

[Heidi13]

51 minutes ago, shorne said:

 

Interesting. I should look for German cruises; hadn't thought about that, perhaps because Germany doesn't have much of a coast.

 

One British cruise line doesn't take anyone under age 50! Perhaps that's going a bit far: 49-year-olds don't seem like a distinctly immature group. But I do meet the standard (you can saw me open and count the rings). Maybe it's worth another look.

 

 

Saga is 50+ and P&O UK also has 2 or 3 ships that are adult only.

[Flatbush Flyer]

As I said previously, your lack of cruise experience has you continuously spouting misconceptions. The latest one being along the lines of  - “I never ate in the buffet.” 
Sounds like you are unaware that a line like Oceania, considered by food mags like Saveur and Bon Appetit to have the “finest cuisine at sea” has the same excellent ingredients and prep as used for nightly GDR offerings. Even O’s pool food is exceptional and, unlike many other cruise lines, the menu in “specialty” restaurants (never an extra charge) only speaks to an emphasis in cuisine focus and ambiance rather than “pay us for better food.”

 

Another of your posts suggests that you may know enough about wine to be mildly dangerous. Here again, look to Oceania for LaReserve where specially curated dinners are sponsored by Wine Spectator and Dom Perignon.

 

In any case, we’re all still wondering how, with all your expectations and preferences you ended up on mass market cruises.

 

After all, you get what you pay for.

[shorne]

6 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

As I said previously, your lack of cruise experience has you continuously spouting misconceptions. The latest one being along the lines of  - “I never ate in the buffet.” 
Sounds like you are unaware that a line like Oceania, considered by food mags like Saveur and Bon Appetit to have the “finest cuisine at sea” has the same excellent ingredients and prep as used for nightly GDR offerings. Even O’s pool food is exceptional and, unlike many other cruise lines, the menu in “specialty” restaurants (never an extra charge) only speaks to an emphasis in cuisine focus and ambiance rather than “pay us for better food.”

 

Another of your posts suggests that you may know enough about wine to be mildly dangerous. Here again, look to Oceania for LaReserve where specially curated dinners are sponsored by Wine Spectator and Dom Perignon.

 

In any case, we’re all still wondering how, with all your expectations and preferences you ended up on mass market cruises.

 

After all, you get what you pay for.

 

I wasn't disparaging the food on the buffet; not having gone near it, I know nothing about it. It may well have been of excellent quality. All that I said is that I myself didn't have any. «I never ate in the buffet» is not a misconception but a fact.

 

Nor did I pay for any «specialty» restaurant; whatever was on the menu at the dining room was fine with me.

 

Yes, I'm an amateur sommelier, on the dangerous end. And I was deeply disappointed by the wine on my previous cruise. Interesting to know that Oceania does better on that score. A manager on the ship confided the predictable fact that good wine would be wasted on most of the passengers, so mostly plonk was kept in stock (though he did slip me the occasional glass, and on one night a whole bottle, of better wine).

 

Why mass-market cruises? Well, there have been only two so far (one of them yet to come). The first wasn't really my choice; the second was, but I chose it for its itinerary, and, yes, after trying for three months to arrange any of a number of more specialised/expensive cruises that just wouldn't work for one reason or another. Have I made a poor choice? Maybe. I hope not.

 

[DarrenM]

17 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

I wear basecall caps and other hats primarily as protection from sun, rain, cold, etc.  

 

I think baseball caps are now a common fashion "accessory" here in America. It doesn't really bother me (better than bell bottoms- Lol).   Are you seeing or starting to see more of them in your neck of the woods?  

Not really, though to be honest I don't really look.

 

But as it rains more than anything else I think we have our coat hoods up.

[sanger727]

11 hours ago, shorne said:

 

Nor do I go around wondering who is or is not «my intellectual equal». But it's probably fair to assume that an especially cerebral atmosphere is unlikely to be found on a ship that removes its library in order to make space for go-karts or Mickey Mouse.

 

 

Perhaps the cruise line just realized that people who enjoy reading in 2023 are most likely using a kindle/tablet so the need to have a space for ratty used books is no longer needed. 

 

It's no secret that mainstream cruise lines maximize revenue space to keep prices down. It's a fair trade off. I've been on two small ship cruises. Once was a river cruise with 20 rooms. The other was a large yacht with 10 rooms. Sorry to say that they both still had a bar with free flowing drinks. I don't believe either had a "library", there may have been a bookshelf with loaners. And the cruises came at a heft price tag. they were also the most casual cruises I've ever been on. There was no requirement to dress up for dinner. The only request was to not show up to the dining room barefoot. 

Edited April 4, 2023 by sanger727

[Aquahound]

13 hours ago, shorne said:

Have I made a poor choice? Maybe. I hope not.

 

 

In all likelihood, you didn't.  Go in with a positive attitude and you'll likely have a great time.  Afterall, Princess is not a bad cruise line.  You should know that there are certain people on these boards who think the earth only revolves around one particular cruise line and only their opinions matter.  Don't let them convince you that your choices are bad.  Go and have a great time on your cruise.  

[ldubs]

16 hours ago, shorne said:

 

And that's fine (though they might not afford much insulation in a Canadian winter). I just don't like to see them indoors. A friend of mine was annoyed to be asked to remove his cap at a restaurant, but I didn't blame the staff for upholding the rule that gentlemen do not wear hats indoors. 

 

I have a toque for cold Canadian winters!  😀

 

Around here baseball caps have become a kind of normal attire, so I guess the rules are changing.  I don't wear them as a fashion thing, but they sure seem to be that way now for a lot of folks.  

[shorne]

11 hours ago, sanger727 said:

 

Perhaps the cruise line just realized that people who enjoy reading in 2023 are most likely using a kindle/tablet so the need to have a space for ratty used books is no longer needed. 

 

It's no secret that mainstream cruise lines maximize revenue space to keep prices down. It's a fair trade off.

 

Well, I'm one of those old-fashioned people who read ratty old books rather than using one of those devices. Admittedly compactness and light weight are big advantages, but it seems that there's no way to back up the books that one has purchased.

 

Maximising revenue-generating space is understandable, but again it has the effect of putting certain tastes ahead of others. Libraries and bridge tables—or for that matter shuffleboard and religious services—take up space (and money) without generating a penny, so they'll be sidelined; casinos, shops, and beauty parlours generate a lot of money but don't appeal to some of us. That just means that it's harder for people with less conventional tastes or interests to find a suitable cruise line or cruise. That's unsurprising: after all, what is profitable is likely also to have broad appeal.

 

[CPT Trips]

Rather than a baseball cap or a toque unless it’s either wicked hot or arctic cold, I prefer this look for travel. 
 

[shorne]

Much more stylish than a baseball cap. I prefer my trusty Basque beret. But never indoors.

 

[ldubs]

1 hour ago, shorne said:

 

Well, I'm one of those old-fashioned people who read ratty old books rather than using one of those devices. Admittedly compactness and light weight are big advantages, but it seems that there's no way to back up the books that one has purchased.

 

Maximising revenue-generating space is understandable, but again it has the effect of putting certain tastes ahead of others. Libraries and bridge tables—or for that matter shuffleboard and religious services—take up space (and money) without generating a penny, so they'll be sidelined; casinos, shops, and beauty parlours generate a lot of money but don't appeal to some of us. That just means that it's harder for people with less conventional tastes or interests to find a suitable cruise line or cruise. That's unsurprising: after all, what is profitable is likely also to have broad appeal.

 

 

There used to be game rooms on the ships.  Folks would get together for Mahjong, bridge, etc.  Maybe they are still hidden away some where, but I sure don't notice them.  

 

The old libraries were kind of a small collection of dog eared novels and some Monopoly like board games stacked on a shelf.   They were comfortable places to chill.   I also remember seeing invites to  passenger initiated book club type meetings.    I haven't seen that in a while.   

 

BTW, Amazon Kindle ebook purchases are saved in the user's cloud storage.  There is no cloud storage limit on purchased ebooks.  I have about 350 stored there now.     

[wowzz]

9 hours ago, shorne said:

but it seems that there's no way to back up the books that one has purchased.

All the books you purchase on a Kindle are automatically backed up. You paid for a book, therefore you own it for ever, unless you specifically decide to delete it.

[sanger727]

13 hours ago, shorne said:

 

Well, I'm one of those old-fashioned people who read ratty old books rather than using one of those devices. Admittedly compactness and light weight are big advantages, but it seems that there's no way to back up the books that one has purchased.

 

Maximising revenue-generating space is understandable, but again it has the effect of putting certain tastes ahead of others. Libraries and bridge tables—or for that matter shuffleboard and religious services—take up space (and money) without generating a penny, so they'll be sidelined; casinos, shops, and beauty parlours generate a lot of money but don't appeal to some of us. That just means that it's harder for people with less conventional tastes or interests to find a suitable cruise line or cruise. That's unsurprising: after all, what is profitable is likely also to have broad appeal.

 

there are certainly cruise lines that don’t have the casinos, shops, and beauty parlors. But they tend to be small ships since it is a smaller customer base. So they also don’t have the libraries, bridge tables, shuffleboards, and religious areas. 

[Heidi13]

1 hour ago, sanger727 said:

there are certainly cruise lines that don’t have the casinos, shops, and beauty parlors. But they tend to be small ships since it is a smaller customer base. So they also don’t have the libraries, bridge tables, shuffleboards, and religious areas. 

 

Based on our experience on the smaller Viking ships, this is not entirely accurate.

 

Yes, Viking doesn't have any casino, nor do they hold bingo sessions. However, they do have shops, but unlike mega ships the Shoppies don't have tables set up in alleyways peddling inches of chain, cheap watches, etc. They also have a full spa suite.

 

Viking probably have one of the best libraries at sea, with almost 2,000 books distributed throughout the ship in various lounges and cabins. They also have bridge tables, various games and a jigsaw in the Atrium, and have shuffleboard, table tennis and mini golf on the outer decks.

[DarrenM]

17 hours ago, CPT Trips said:

Rather than a baseball cap or a toque unless it’s either wicked hot or arctic cold, I prefer this look for travel. 
 

Love that hat

[ldubs]

On 4/2/2023 at 2:33 PM, shorne said:

Although I don't intend to offend anyone, probably some people will take this message as a personal affront. The comments below are about me, not about others; I don't cast aspersions on anyone else's tastes, nor do I suggest that everyone should be like me. Please bear that in mind if you read the rest of this message.

 

I don't like cruises. I've taken only one, to Alaska, in my many years on this blue marble. I'm about to take a 33-night cruise to Iceland and Norway, and unfortunately I have already seen reasons to fear that it may not be to my liking.

 

Why I don't like cruises:

 

• They usually give pride of place to gambling, shopping, overeating, heavy drinking, and lying around by a swimming pool, none of which is of interest to me. I do enjoy good food and wine, but I neither need nor want heaps of food or freely flowing alcohol, and anyway I'd much sooner enjoy the food of the locality than something made for foreign tastes. Gambling strikes me as downright foolish (every bet favours the house, often by a shocking percentage), and lounging around by a pool would bore me, as would shopping as an end in itself.
• They often cater to children («families» being the polite term). I don't wish to be around a bunch of screaming children under any circumstances, least of all when travelling on vacation.
• Single people like me are not really wanted, mainly because we tend not to spend much money (which is the main reason for the dreaded «single supplement»). There seems to be little reason to use a cruise when travelling independently.
• Landings in ports are so short that one can obtain only a superficial impression of the locality. Again, this may suit the shoppers and the sunbathers, but it is antithetical to my usual purposes. For me, it makes sense mainly for destinations whose appeal stems largely from their natural beauty; others would usually deserve at least a day or two, often much more time.
• As far as I can tell, cruises seldom have much to offer to people like me who are of an intellectual disposition. Many of the offerings are lowbrow or worse: television, bingo, hairy-chest competitions. Reportedly some ships have even removed their libraries because of low demand. Presumably a few of the passengers might be kindred spirits, but they are hard to find among the drunks and the gamblers. I am not very outgoing anyway, so I am unlikely to interact much with strangers on a ship. And although I am perfectly capable of entertaining myself, I can do so just as easily—nay, more easily—without taking a cruise.
• Being commercial in nature, they promote expenditures, often on things that I wouldn't want under any circumstances. I'm not interested in buying touristy tchotchkes, visiting beauty parlours, or shopping for jewellery.
• Itineraries are often shallow or unappealing. I am not interested in places in the Caribbean that, at least to someone arriving by sea for a visit of only a few hours, offer little but a beach and some souvenir stands. Still less would I value a «private island»—nothing but an uninhabited beach, really.
• They limit travel to places that are at or near a port that the ship can and will use. Obviously they are useless for most inland destinations, but even many places right on the water are bypassed, either because they cannot accommodate a large vessel or because they don't appeal to people on cruises.
• With few exceptions, they are Anglo or at least Western in outlook. For me, getting away from Anglos is one of the best parts of travelling. I prefer to travel on my own, speaking the local language and seeking a reasonably authentic experience. That doesn't happen on a cruise, except for a few hours here and there in a port.
• Like so many other things, cruises seem to be going down-market. Witness not only the sorts of vulgar activities described above but also the tendency away from formality. My 7-night cruise to Alaska years ago included two formal evenings, on which I wore black tie; this upcoming 33-night cruise includes only five such nights, and «formal» means that a shirt with buttons is kindly requested. Even then there are endless complaints from people who deem it an imposition to be expected to comb their hair and change out of their rags, or even take off their baseball caps or cover their bodies, for the sake of others' enjoyment of dinner.
• A lot of passengers seem not to know or care much about the places that they are visiting; they are content to have their time on the ship punctuated by a few hours in this or that nondescript port, where they can be hauled around on a bus to see whatever may be quickly seen. Recently I was shouted down for objecting to the questionable cancellation of what was for me the most important destination on the cruise, and although a few other people shared my annoyance, many attacked me personally and told me just to be satisfied that I could take a cruise at all. Perhaps to them it doesn't matter; perhaps they cannot even find Iceland or Norway (or Europe) on a map. But to me it makes all the difference, and I'm not satisfied with the substitution of an arbitrary port or the chance to spend another day in a beauty parlour or a casino.

 

Again, those are just my views; I don't expect anyone else to share them.

 

What might attract me to a cruise is the opportunity to visit destinations that are otherwise difficult or expensive to reach. Alaska, Iceland, and the coast of Norway are good examples. Others that I have considered:

 

• Antarctica (on one of those tiny vessels that allow landing, not a big ship that merely passes within view of the continent without stopping)
• Parts of the Arctic, such as Greenland and northern Canada
• The South Pacific
• Certain parts of Africa and the Indian Ocean

 

Even these, however, are not always easy to arrange. Most cruises in the Pacific feature Australia, New Zealand, Hawai‘i, and maybe French Polynesia; few go, say, to Vanuatu or Tonga, and even some of the destinations that seem facially out of the ordinary turn out to be private islands. Cruises in Africa often feature only South Africa at one end and the Suez Canal or the Canary Islands at the other, with little or nothing in between except perhaps a few islands (Madagascar, Mauritius, the Seychelles, Cabo Verde).

 

Another problem is that many of these cruises are too short to justify the expense and trouble of travelling far from my home in Canada. Usually I'd want to spend at least two or three weeks on a cruise of this nature.

 

Antarctica seems like an especially promising choice for me: beyond being blessedly free of souvenir stands and tour buses, it will attract people who appreciate the destination and are prepared to pay a lot for the chance to see it. The same is probably true of remote parts of the Arctic. Perhaps it is not true of the South Pacific, which some people may favour for its beaches alone.

 

Any recommendations of unconventional cruises that might appeal to me? Or should I give up and travel, as usual, by other means?

 

 

 

 

I have this rule that I try hard to not do things that I don't enjoy.  So, the question is why have you booked a Princess cruise?  Seems it will have everything you say you dislike.     

[YourWorldWithBill]

5 hours ago, sanger727 said:

there are certainly cruise lines that don’t have the casinos, shops, and beauty parlors. But they tend to be small ships since it is a smaller customer base. So they also don’t have the libraries, bridge tables, shuffleboards, and religious areas. 

I think that the Viking ships have libraries.

[Essiesmom]

1 hour ago, YourWorldWithBill said:

I think that the Viking ships have libraries.

That was mentioned in post #44 by Heidi13.  But by far the best libraries at sea are on Cunard.  EM

[Heidi13]

3 hours ago, Essiesmom said:

That was mentioned in post #44 by Heidi13.  But by far the best libraries at sea are on Cunard.  EM

 

Affirmative, the QM2 is most definitely the best and most extensive library at sea.

[shorne]

5 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

 

I have this rule that I try hard to not do things that I don't enjoy.  So, the question is why have you booked a Princess cruise?  Seems it will have everything you say you dislike.     

 

I did it reluctantly, and only because of the itinerary. As I said at the start of that first message, I don't like cruises in general, which is not to say that there may not be specific ones that I could enjoy (finding them being the purpose of this discussion). Ordinarily I would travel in a different way. In this case, visiting the coast of Norway and many parts of Iceland is most easily done by sea, so I looked into cruises until I found one with a good itinerary.

 

Also, although I wouldn't ordinarily spend the money, I shelled out for a room with a balcony, and even one of the better ones, because I thought that I might well end up spending a lot of time alone and that I might as well have a comfortable place for that. Indeed, having had no vacation at all for seven years (and possibly being the only one on this Web site who can claim that), I wasn't up to my usual style of travel, which involves a lot of busy moving around and making arrangements on my own; I wanted the chance to spend some time just relaxing, even if that means just sitting around with a book, or even just sleeping. I thought that a cruise might serve well for that purpose, as long as I could find some tranquillity.

 

As has been pointed out, this one will probably have no children, or very few. Probably most of the people will be of my age or older. So there's some compatibility there.