Alaska cruises with no stops in Canada

[lenquixote66]

5 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

That ended in a Canadian port, so PVSA doesn't apply. Its not a roundtrip out of a US port, which has been the point of this thread.

Okay

[Heidi13]

12 hours ago, lenquixote66 said:

Do you define a disembarkment as a stop ?We boarded a cruise in Alaska and disembarked in Canada.

 

A cruise originating in one country and disembarking in a different country is classed as an International Voyage, so Cabotage Laws are not applicable.

[lenquixote66]

11 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

A cruise originating in one country and disembarking in a different country is classed as an International Voyage, so Cabotage Laws are not applicable.

Very interesting

[new_cruiser]

On 3/4/2024 at 5:39 PM, CruiserBruce said:

If you are sailing roundtrip from a US port, you MUST stop in a foreign port. So there has to be a stop in Canada.

 

The only exception would be a US flagged ship, which there are very few. In Alaska, I think there are just a couple 100-200 pax ships that MIGHT meet your needs.

There are actually a lot more than a couple but they are all quite small ships, I think only one is more than 100 passengers. Most are between 40 and 100. It's a different kind of cruise experience. 

 

The fares are a lot higher than mass market lines. 

 

Alaskan Dream Cruise, UnCruise, and Lindblad Expeditions all offer these cruises. It's on my bucket list to do one.

Edited March 10 by new_cruiser

[ldubs]

On 3/6/2024 at 7:29 PM, Aquahound said:

Not sure I would choose this over a nice, comfy suite but to each their own.  I can definitely see the draw to this though.

 

Backs hurts just looking at this.  🙂

[kochleffel]

On 3/6/2024 at 12:17 AM, Heidi13 said:

 

On the BC Ferries, which is our equivalent to Alaska's ferries, they used to pitch tents in the lounges at night. So yes, sleeping on the deck does happen.

 

On the Alaska ferries, people pitch tents on the open deck. It's also allowed to sleep on loungers in the solarium where there is infrared heating.

 

 

I took a non-cruise on the AMHS in 2021. The schedules typically require staying several days in each port, and there may be gaps that aren't feasible by ferry. I boarded in Bellingham, stayed three days in Ketchikan, and then boarded a different ship to Juneau.

[Ferry_Watcher]

I was just in Bellingham (Fairhaven) this week and saw the Alaska Ferry at the dock.  We had been in Blaine for our NEXUS interview. The interview was with both a US CBP Officer, and a Canadian CBSA officer.   Looking forward to getting those Trusted Traveler cards.

[momofmeg]

On 3/4/2024 at 8:39 PM, CruiserBruce said:

If you are sailing roundtrip from a US port, you MUST stop in a foreign port. So there has to be a stop in Canada.

 

The only exception would be a US flagged ship, which there are very few. In Alaska, I think there are just a couple 100-200 pax ships that MIGHT meet your needs.

 

They cost more too and not just because they are a smaller ship.   I don't understand exactly why but cruise ships save a big fee if they do at least one foreign port.  For example, NCL offers a Hawaii only cruise from Hawaii. It is more expensive because it does not do a foreign port. You can do a 2-week round trip cruise to Hawaii from California with a stop in Ensenada Mexico for less than the one-week trip staying in only Hawaii.

 

[CruiserBruce]

9 minutes ago, momofmeg said:

 

They cost more too and not just because they are a smaller ship.   I don't understand exactly why but cruise ships save a big fee if they do at least one foreign port.  For example, NCL offers a Hawaii only cruise from Hawaii. It is more expensive because it does not do a foreign port. You can do a 2-week round trip cruise to Hawaii from California with a stop in Ensenada Mexico for less than the one-week trip staying in only Hawaii.

 

Its not a fee, its a fine. The PVSA requires a stop in a foreign port for a roundtrip, a stop in a distant foreign port for a one way cruise from one US port to another US port. If those don't happen, it is a fine, per passenger. I have heard it is $750 each, but not sure if that is correct.

 

The NCL ship doing Hawaii is a US flagged ship, with US citizen employees and has to pay US wages. According to the law, that means the foreign port requirements don't apply.

[chengkp75]

5 hours ago, momofmeg said:

 

They cost more too and not just because they are a smaller ship.   I don't understand exactly why but cruise ships save a big fee if they do at least one foreign port.  For example, NCL offers a Hawaii only cruise from Hawaii. It is more expensive because it does not do a foreign port. You can do a 2-week round trip cruise to Hawaii from California with a stop in Ensenada Mexico for less than the one-week trip staying in only Hawaii.

 

No, its not a fee.  Foreign flag ships must have a foreign port call.  US flag ships can cruise to US ports without a foreign port call.  What the savings for the foreign ships is;  US taxes (they pay none), labor costs (they pay well below US minimum wage, with no social security payroll tax), inspection fees (they don't have to pay for USCG inspections, nor have as many, or any, compared to US flag ships), insurance (most foreign seafarers have minimal insurance coverage (and none while off the ship), as opposed to US seafarers, customs duty (all ship's supplies brought into the US from overseas that end up on the ship are brought in with no customs duty, since it is merely in transit from a foreign country to a foreign ship, while US ships have to pay duty for the same parts and supplies if they are manufactured overseas).

 

However, smaller cruise ships will charge a higher fare, even if foreign flag, because they can not generate the "economies of scale" that large ships get.  As a very small example, a cruise ship that carries 3000 passengers only has one Captain, drawing $150k/year.  But, 5 ships carrying 600 pax, need 5 Captains drawing $150k/year.  And, that Captain's salary on the larger ship is spread over 3000 passengers, while the smaller ship Captain's salary, while the same amount, is spread out over only 600 passengers.

[momofmeg]

On 3/18/2024 at 1:20 PM, chengkp75 said:

No, its not a fee.  Foreign flag ships must have a foreign port call.  US flag ships can cruise to US ports without a foreign port call.  What the savings for the foreign ships is;  US taxes (they pay none), labor costs (they pay well below US minimum wage, with no social security payroll tax), inspection fees (they don't have to pay for USCG inspections, nor have as many, or any, compared to US flag ships), insurance (most foreign seafarers have minimal insurance coverage (and none while off the ship), as opposed to US seafarers, customs duty (all ship's supplies brought into the US from overseas that end up on the ship are brought in with no customs duty, since it is merely in transit from a foreign country to a foreign ship, while US ships have to pay duty for the same parts and supplies if they are manufactured overseas).

 

However, smaller cruise ships will charge a higher fare, even if foreign flag, because they can not generate the "economies of scale" that large ships get.  As a very small example, a cruise ship that carries 3000 passengers only has one Captain, drawing $150k/year.  But, 5 ships carrying 600 pax, need 5 Captains drawing $150k/year.  And, that Captain's salary on the larger ship is spread over 3000 passengers, while the smaller ship Captain's salary, while the same amount, is spread out over only 600 passengers.

  I am not contradicting you and yes, I understand a smaller ship has less passengers to generate income, so they cost more for that reason. I get that, we all do. It is the same reason Amazon can beat out Mom and Pop stores on prices. I meant it is more than that. For example, we did a California coastal cruise (On Ruby Princess I think, it was Princess anyway) about 10 years ago. We left from San Francisco and went to Santa Barbara, Long Beach, San Diego, with our last port being Ensenada. One couple on the Princess board posted (they were not on our cruise but doing the same itinerary a different week) they wanted to disembark in San Diego, spend a few days there and fly home from there. They looked into it and found out the fine was more than their cruise fare.  They decided against it and spent a few says in San Francisco instead. that was the type of scenario I was referring to, there is a fine on the mass market lines if the cruise has a scheduled foreign port you skip. that is why I compared NCL cruises that are round trip Hawaii.

[momofmeg]

On 3/18/2024 at 7:29 AM, CruiserBruce said:

Its not a fee, its a fine. The PVSA requires a stop in a foreign port for a roundtrip, a stop in a distant foreign port for a one way cruise from one US port to another US port. If those don't happen, it is a fine, per passenger. I have heard it is $750 each, but not sure if that is correct.

 

The NCL ship doing Hawaii is a US flagged ship, with US citizen employees and has to pay US wages. According to the law, that means the foreign port requirements don't apply.

 Thankyou. That is the word I was looking for fine. I knew fee was not the correct term, but my 70-year-old brain could not think what it was called.

[njhorseman]

2 hours ago, momofmeg said:

there is a fine on the mass market lines if the cruise has a scheduled foreign port you skip

It's not just the mass market lines. the PVSA applies to all ships. You could be on the most luxurious cruise ship imaginable carrying few passengers and the same rules would apply.

[Heidi13]

13 hours ago, momofmeg said:

 there is a fine on the mass market lines if the cruise has a scheduled foreign port you skip. that is why I compared NCL cruises that are round trip Hawaii.

 

The fine for US PVSA infractions do not just apply to mass market tonnage, they apply to every foreign flagged ship. It has nothing to do with ship size, all to do with the ship's Flag State.