NEWS FLASH: HAL to favor Triples and Quads

[TRLD]

2 hours ago, TiogaCruiser said:

Different programs.

 

The HAL program (standby) requires payment in full at time of booking standby, and returns the money if you don’t get on. If you “clear the list” and decide you don’t want to go, no refund for you. You are committed when you book.  They don’t put a cabin up for offer and then you “call in” if you want it. 

I guess my TA did not understand it either. They said that they would put us in for it and contact us if a room was available. They did text us one time saying that we had a choice of two rooms, but that both were gone when we returned their contact.

 

too funny.

 

We did not think anymore about it because that was how Princess worked and we were used to that.

 

Wonder how many people are actually getting rooms after paying the deposit under the program.

 

From the cruise lines perspective the HAL system as you describe it makes even more sense for the cruise line since the passenger deposit is locked in so they either have to accept or lose the deposit.

[TiogaCruiser]

3 hours ago, TRLD said:

I guess my TA did not understand it either. They said that they would put us in for it and contact us if a room was available. They did text us one time saying that we had a choice of two rooms, but that both were gone when we returned their contact.

 

too funny.

 

We did not think anymore about it because that was how Princess worked and we were used to that.

 

Wonder how many people are actually getting rooms after paying the deposit under the program.

 

From the cruise lines perspective the HAL system as you describe it makes even more sense for the cruise line since the passenger deposit is locked in so they either have to accept or lose the deposit.

What you’re describing sounds more like the Waitlist, which has been in effect since I don’t know when. We tried to get on it for a cruise to Antarctica in 2010 or 11 and were turned down because it was full.

[Cruising on a Sunday afte]

This is bad news for me. I always book an inside midship lower deck cabin, because I get motion sickness I pay extra for that choice.

[secondtime]

Upon doing the online checkin for an upcoming cruise, I see that the language has been changed in the contract to reflect that HAL can move anyone to another stateroom.  The date on the bottom of the contract is March 2024.

[jimdee3636]

@secondtime

This bothers me. As I pointed out previously on this thread, the law calls these kinds of contracts "contracts of adhesion," i.e., take it or leave it. I can live with such contracts if they're disclosed at the beginning---before you book the cruise. But for HAL to spring this on people shortly before the sail date, which is normally when you do the online check-in, is unconscionable and quite possibly illegal.

 

Jim

[Mary229]

45 minutes ago, secondtime said:

Upon doing the online checkin for an upcoming cruise, I see that the language has been changed in the contract to reflect that HAL can move anyone to another stateroom.  The date on the bottom of the contract is March 2024.

I don’t have an old contract to compare with but they have always reserved the right to move you.  That was generally done when they needed an accessible room and the person who had originally booked did not need the room.  

[Mary229]

So I haven’t followed along with this thread except when it first launched.  Has anyone posted any verified information from HAL regarding this or is this thread carrying on 14 pages o only one PCCs word.   It has always been the policy for family rooms.  I have a family room booked and we were surprised they allowed us to do so but the sailing historically does not draw families or groups.  We were warned when we book that we could be asked to move - this was booked well over a year ago. 

[secondtime]

OLD CONTRACT

 

NEW CONTRACT (blue highlights are HAL's not mine)

 

 

[Boatdrill]

7 hours ago, Mary229 said:

Has anyone posted any verified information from HAL regarding this or is this thread carrying on 14 pages o only one PCCs word.

I don't know if this "counts", but on April 18 I checked HAL's travel agent booking portal for availability on two 7 day Alaska cruises on the Eurodam this summer. The itineraries were the same. One cruise was in mid June, the other in early September. All rooms/categories, on both cruises, were available by guarantee only.  For the September cruise, this was not the case just a few months ago. On both cruises, I entered specific room numbers - triples, quads, double, single occ. - to test the system, and as a attempt to find a room to assign. Not one was available. All suites on the June cruise were waitlisted. Everything else, top to bottom, was guarantee only. It didn't matter if it was with or without Have It  All, group fares, or any promotion; 
HAL was not going to show me their hand, not even for a cruise 5 months from now.    

Edited April 21 by Boatdrill

[HappyInVan]

8 hours ago, secondtime said:

OLD CONTRACT

 

NEW CONTRACT (blue highlights are HAL's not mine)

 

 

 Thanks. Their intention is pretty clear.

 

They're gonna try and load the ships as much as possible. Make it peak season year round. Not for me. Might as well sail with MSC.

 

When does this take effect? Hope that it isn't back-dated to old bookings!!! 😒

 

 

[Mary229]

7 hours ago, Boatdrill said:

I don't know if this "counts", but on April 18 I checked HAL's travel agent booking portal for availability on two 7 day Alaska cruises on the Eurodam this summer. The itineraries were the same. One cruise was in mid June, the other in early September. All rooms/categories, on both cruises, were available by guarantee only.  For the September cruise, this was not the case just a few months ago. On both cruises, I entered specific room numbers - triples, quads, double, single occ. - to test the system, and as a attempt to find a room to assign. Not one was available. All suites on the June cruise were waitlisted. Everything else, top to bottom, was guarantee only. It didn't matter if it was with or without Have It  All, group fares, or any promotion; 
HAL was not going to show me their hand, not even for a cruise 5 months from now.    

That is a different thing they have been doing and I am not really sure what it portends.  About 6-8 weeks out they have been “closing” the bookings then reopening them later.  This started soon after RCCL had to turn away people at the pier because Royal had overbooked.   Perhaps it is a new back office booking software?  

[Real NHDOC]

Seeing the newly revised ticket contract makes me think someone from HAL monitors this board.

 

Clearly, the old contract did not appear to allow them to reassign cabins at will like this new revision does.  So much of what is in their contract is so advantageous to them it's hard to believe it could hold up on court.  For example, according to the contract you could book and pay for a Pinnacle suite and just because someone else wanted to pay more for it (or for any other reason they had) you could be bumped out of it and put into any cabin on the ship that was available without recourse or any refund. 

 

It would seem to be a breach of the normal "meeting of the minds" that's a requirement for a contract to be legal.  While they can write whatever they want into the contract, it's up to the courts to determine if it is actually legal.  I think the cruise lines operate in very grey areas of "truth in advertising" most of the time but this seems to push them well over the line.  If you book and pay for a specific cabin then you should expect that you should get that cabin...not whatever they want to give you.

Edited April 21 by Real NHDOC

[Horizon chaser 1957]

6 minutes ago, Real NHDOC said:

If you book and pay for a specific cabin then you should expect that you should get that cabin...not whatever they want to give you.

Especially since during the booking process they offer you the choice of letting them assign your room for one price, or choosing your own room at a higher price. Basically, an upsell.  If they offer me an upsell and take my money for it, I expect them to deliver on it. 

[TRLD]

46 minutes ago, Real NHDOC said:

Seeing the newly revised ticket contract makes me think someone from HAL monitors this board.

 

Clearly, the old contract did not appear to allow them to reassign cabins at will like this new revision does.  So much of what is in their contract is so advantageous to them it's hard to believe it could hold up on court.  For example, according to the contract you could book and pay for a Pinnacle suite and just because someone else wanted to pay more for it (or for any other reason they had) you could be bumped out of it and put into any cabin on the ship that was available without recourse or any refund. 

 

It would seem to be a breach of the normal "meeting of the minds" that's a requirement for a contract to be legal.  While they can write whatever they want into the contract, it's up to the courts to determine if it is actually legal.  I think the cruise lines operate in very grey areas of "truth in advertising" most of the time but this seems to push them well over the line.  If you book and pay for a specific cabin then you should expect that you should get that cabin...not whatever they want to give you.

While technically they could bump one downward, have not heard of that happening on any line  except in extreme circumstances that were well compensated.

 

 What this does indicate and what people should take note off is how the cruise lines rate the rooms, and the number of people they will hold.

 

Not just on HAL but on all other lines as well. As has been well.discussed over the years what a cruise line considers to be an equivalent room, an individual.passenger may not.

 

Under this change, probably more of their legal department catching up to the change, than because of someone reading anything here, one can expect the odds of one getting moved from a 3/4 room to an equivalent or better grade (according to the cruise lines ranking system) 2 person room to go up, if the line needs the room for a 3/4 booking.

 

 Basically just as they have gone more to pushing guarantee bookings, vs selected room bookings they are pushing for more control of their room inventory to maximize revenue More like hotels do.

Edited April 21 by TRLD

[Real NHDOC]

The main problem with being "bumped up" is HAL's opinion of an upgrade and mine are often not the same.  The term upgrade can be VERY subjective, especially when it comes to location on the ship.

[TRLD]

Just now, Real NHDOC said:

The main problem with being "bumped up" is HAL's opinion of an upgrade and mine are often not the same.  The term upgrade can be VERY subjective, especially when it comes to location on the ship.

Point is that to the cruise line it is not subjective at all it is how the rooms are coded and class assigned.

 

Just like not all  rooms in hotels are equivalent. You can book ocean view in a hotel, but not all are equivalent.

[Nodakboiler]

Does anyone know what criteria is used to bump? Mariner status? Date of booking? Original price paid? We were booked in a triple and just changed to a triple cabin next door after realizing the first assignment was a connecting cabin. The PCC sent me the note about a possible change if families booked. The first booking had been in Jan '24 before the change. Just hoping since it is a long cruise that it won't be attractive to large families.

[81Zoomie]

On 3/22/2024 at 4:41 PM, YourWorldWithBill said:

Although they're the same size as other Vs, as @kazusaid, we chose 5070 - not far from you - for its location for our Baltic cruise. And our cruise is sold out; so, we're hoping.

Just catching up on this thread as we have a fall TA booked.  This will have ramifications for Club Orange 🍊 upgrades.  We selected a V category cabin with a big balcony as our in class upgrade. A very large percentage of the Pinnacle class verandah cabins with large balconies (V and VB) are triples and quads.  If all those cabins are blocked to 2 people when sailings open for booking, it decreases the cost benefit and appeal of Club Orange 🍊.  Hoping we are safe on a TA.  But, I’d be an unhappy camper if we are bumped from our cabin!

Edited April 21 by 81Zoomie

[TRLD]

13 minutes ago, Nodakboiler said:

Does anyone know what criteria is used to bump? Mariner status? Date of booking? Original price paid? We were booked in a triple and just changed to a triple cabin next door after realizing the first assignment was a connecting cabin. The PCC sent me the note about a possible change if families booked. The first booking had been in Jan '24 before the change. Just hoping since it is a long cruise that it won't be attractive to large families.

No published criteria, nor would I expect any.

[crystalspin]

22 hours ago, Mary229 said:

So I haven’t followed along with this thread except when it first launched.  Has anyone posted any verified information from HAL regarding this or is this thread carrying on 14 pages o only one PCCs word.   It has always been the policy for family rooms.

Hi Mary! I started this thread after booking a Observation Deck Verandah (on Zuiderdam, where all of Deck 10 Verandahs are quads). Not a "Family" cabin such as on Main Deck. Just a crowded Verandah like this:

It was my PCC that used the word "family", but any foursome would be able to bump us. As the Verandahs on that deck were filling up, making us one of the last to book (potentially first to be bumped?), I blinked and took a Navigation double cabin near the forward elevators/stairwell.

 

Her mentioning the potential for being bumped (for an additional $160 pp for guests 3&4! on top of the $1000 pp for guests 1&2 to be on Deck 10) was the NEW thing, and several CC'ers did post to this thread that they had been told the same thing. So far no one has reported having it happen to them. I don't even know how a foursome would know to ask!

 

I don't remember the verbage, but my PCC did imply that HAL was moving toward the policy of ONLY booking the maximum number per cabin like Princess and RCCL -- both lines I have had to put my mom in with us to get the cabin I wanted, even though she might not have been able to sail. That instructing the PCCs to mention bumping was just the first step. 

[Mary229]

4 minutes ago, crystalspin said:

Hi Mary! I started this thread after booking a Observation Deck Verandah (on Zuiderdam, where all of Deck 10 Verandahs are quads). Not a "Family" cabin such as on Main Deck. Just a crowded Verandah like this:

It was my PCC that used the word "family", but any foursome would be able to bump us. As the Verandahs on that deck were filling up, making us one of the last to book (potentially first to be bumped?), I blinked and took a Navigation double cabin near the forward elevators/stairwell.

 

Her mentioning the potential for being bumped (for an additional $160 pp for guests 3&4! on top of the $1000 pp for guests 1&2 to be on Deck 10) was the NEW thing, and several CC'ers did post to this thread that they had been told the same thing. So far no one has reported having it happen to them. I don't even know how a foursome would know to ask!

 

I don't remember the verbage, but my PCC did imply that HAL was moving toward the policy of ONLY booking the maximum number per cabin like Princess and RCCL -- both lines I have had to put my mom in with us to get the cabin I wanted, even though she might not have been able to sail. That instructing the PCCs to mention bumping was just the first step. 

Someone a few lines up posted a change to the terms of contract.  I booked my family cabin spring 2023 and was told that I could be bumped but that was standard before this change as the accessible room bump was.  When booking those cabins in the past I was always forewarned.  I guess the moral of the story is to have a really good TA or PCC who knows the rules.  Actually I had not picked the family room but my TA was offered it on the phone for a very small amount of money extra when I was going to try a first floor OV

Edited April 21 by Mary229

[TRLD]

1 hour ago, crystalspin said:

Hi Mary! I started this thread after booking a Observation Deck Verandah (on Zuiderdam, where all of Deck 10 Verandahs are quads). Not a "Family" cabin such as on Main Deck. Just a crowded Verandah like this:

It was my PCC that used the word "family", but any foursome would be able to bump us. As the Verandahs on that deck were filling up, making us one of the last to book (potentially first to be bumped?), I blinked and took a Navigation double cabin near the forward elevators/stairwell.

 

Her mentioning the potential for being bumped (for an additional $160 pp for guests 3&4! on top of the $1000 pp for guests 1&2 to be on Deck 10) was the NEW thing, and several CC'ers did post to this thread that they had been told the same thing. So far no one has reported having it happen to them. I don't even know how a foursome would know to ask!

 

I don't remember the verbage, but my PCC did imply that HAL was moving toward the policy of ONLY booking the maximum number per cabin like Princess and RCCL -- both lines I have had to put my mom in with us to get the cabin I wanted, even though she might not have been able to sail. That instructing the PCCs to mention bumping was just the first step. 

Mostly likely they would not ask. More likely that the bump would be the result of a 3 or 4 person guarantee that they need a cabin for when it comes time to do all of the guarantees.

[crystalspin]

1 minute ago, TRLD said:

Mostly likely they would not ask. More likely that the bump would be the result of a 3 or 4 person guarantee that they need a cabin for when it comes time to do all of the guarantees.

Oh, thanks, now I see.

[3rdGenCunarder]

5 hours ago, TRLD said:

Point is that to the cruise line it is not subjective at all it is how the rooms are coded and class assigned.

 

Just like not all  rooms in hotels are equivalent. You can book ocean view in a hotel, but not all are equivalent.

 

This is true. To HAL it's all just inventory. But for those of us who have our own criteria for cabin choice, we're paying to make that choice. If we can be moved around at will, then we've basically got guarantees. 

[3rdGenCunarder]

9 hours ago, Mary229 said:

That is a different thing they have been doing and I am not really sure what it portends.  About 6-8 weeks out they have been “closing” the bookings then reopening them later.  This started soon after RCCL had to turn away people at the pier because Royal had overbooked.   Perhaps it is a new back office booking software?  

 

I don't know if it's always been at 6-8 weeks (I think it used be later), but at some point HAL has usually closed certain categories when they start placing guarantee bookings. If you're watching availability for some reason, suddenly one category says sold out. Then the next day, there is availability, but less than before the "sold out" break.