Viking IPO

[FetaCheese]

From SeaTrade Cruise News 05 April 2024

 

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/finance-legal-regulatory/viking-ipo-filing-gives-insight-its-financials-and-growth-plans?utm_campaign=SC_News_Seatrade Cruise News Weekly Update_NL_04052024&utm_emailname=SC_News_Seatrade Cruise News Weekly Update_NL_04052024&utm_medium=email&utm_source=eloqua&utm_MDMContactID=9d5bd72d-7f4c-4493-b015-48013d5850ea&utm_campaigntype=Newsletter&eM=aa701701123f0394af13ba72c3450f5afc29342d5a552fc03cb711122d86b6d0&eventSeriesCode=ES_SEATRDCRSCTNT&eventEditionCode=MTM00SCC&sessionCode=S_STRDCRSNEWS&sp_eh=aa701701123f0394af13ba72c3450f5afc29342d5a552fc03cb711122d86b6d0

[CCWineLover]

13 minutes ago, FetaCheese said:

From SeaTrade Cruise News 05 April 2024

 

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/finance-legal-regulatory/viking-ipo-filing-gives-insight-its-financials-and-growth-plans?utm_campaign=SC_News_Seatrade Cruise News Weekly Update_NL_04052024&utm_emailname=SC_News_Seatrade Cruise News Weekly Update_NL_04052024&utm_medium=email&utm_source=eloqua&utm_MDMContactID=9d5bd72d-7f4c-4493-b015-48013d5850ea&utm_campaigntype=Newsletter&eM=aa701701123f0394af13ba72c3450f5afc29342d5a552fc03cb711122d86b6d0&eventSeriesCode=ES_SEATRDCRSCTNT&eventEditionCode=MTM00SCC&sessionCode=S_STRDCRSNEWS&sp_eh=aa701701123f0394af13ba72c3450f5afc29342d5a552fc03cb711122d86b6d0

 

an interesting comment . . .

we are exploring other products, such as safaris and land tours, that would allow our guests to explore more of the world in Viking comfort.'"

[deec]

Viking's new offerings in China will certainly test the "land tour" option.  I know Viking Rivers offered a similar product ( we were booked and then Covid descended) on the Yangtze River that included pandas, terra cotta warriors and Tibet as part of the tour BUT I am skeptical about how Viking will coordinate  moving 900 passengers from an Ocean ship  through multiple airports and hotels? 

[Breckski]

1 hour ago, deec said:

Viking's new offerings in China will certainly test the "land tour" option.  I know Viking Rivers offered a similar product ( we were booked and then Covid descended) on the Yangtze River that included pandas, terra cotta warriors and Tibet as part of the tour BUT I am skeptical about how Viking will coordinate  moving 900 passengers from an Ocean ship  through multiple airports and hotels? 

My thoughts exactly   We visited China before as independent travelers so know enough to be dangerous.  I told my wife that Viking will have problems with the land portion of these trips due to the volume of people combined with inherent difficulties involved with traveling in China.  Heck, feeding 900 people in China won't be the easiest to arrange and certainly won't be easy to do in a manner that satisfies most.  

 

 

 

[FlyerTalker]

Net yield: 6.9%

Operating loss:  $1.86 Billion on gross revenue of $4.7 Billion.  Which means for every dollar of revenue, they lost almost 40 cents.

 

Interestingly, the article focuses on the bookings, not the financial performance.  Hmmm.

 

 

 

 

[Cienfuegos]

I haven't read the filing, but I was interested to see the proceeds of the Initial Public Offering will be used to buy out two early investors. A Canadian pension fund and TPG Investment management.

[Breckski]

8 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

Net yield: 6.9%

Operating loss:  $1.86 Billion on gross revenue of $4.7 Billion.  Which means for every dollar of revenue, they lost almost 40 cents.

 

Interestingly, the article focuses on the bookings, not the financial performance.  Hmmm.

 

 

 

 

They had a huge one-time expense for debt refinancing.  They had solid EBITDA.  I didn't find the amount of the debt refi loss, but I'm certain investors aren't going to view this as a company loosing 40 cents on every dollar of revenue.

[Breckski]

F-1 (sec.gov)   - SEC filing

 

It looks like the debt restructuring and valuation charge was a bit over $2B.

[Peregrina651]

6 hours ago, deec said:

Viking's new offerings in China will certainly test the "land tour" option.  I know Viking Rivers offered a similar product ( we were booked and then Covid descended) on the Yangtze River that included pandas, terra cotta warriors and Tibet as part of the tour BUT I am skeptical about how Viking will coordinate  moving 900 passengers from an Ocean ship  through multiple airports and hotels? 

 

Dee, I'm really sorry that you missed the river cruise.

 

We did the river cruise in 2010. Viking's China team has been my gold standard ever since; they were a well-oiled machine with never a missed beat. The river vessel carried around 300 pax. I can't remember how many buses we were but the guide-escorts knew how to stagger arrival times at the various venues such that we were not tripping over one another, including at meals. In country, we were spread over multiple scheduled flights. The guide-escorts were great at getting us through security and on to the plane, with almost no waiting in the lounge area. In other words, they had the people moving down to a science. Most importantly, the our escorts knew where the good bathrooms were -- but even then, you need to bring your own supplies -- tp and sanitizer. (For more details, see the RiverCruising thread called Viking China Part 2)

 

I do agree with you however, that managing 900 vs 300 is a concern but I think Viking's China office is up to the task. There are many hotel options in China and Viking will probably use more than one hotel in each city.  Viking has been visiting these cities  on a regular basis for well over 10 years. 

 

Moreover, I would not be surprised to learn that they have opted less than full capacity at the start of the venture -- similar to the Welcome Back Cruises of 2021, which carried less than 500 pax.

 

 

4 hours ago, mwike said:

Heck, feeding 900 people in China won't be the easiest to arrange and certainly won't be easy to do in a manner that satisfies most.  

 

What makes you say that? Viking has been already spent over 10 years in China taking boatloads of guests to Shanghai, Beijing, Xi'an and Tibet. They already know where to take people for meals. Just know in advance that if you don't like Chinese food, then you should not be considering this itinerary.

 

In China, most of the meals were included even for the land-based portion. Breakfast buffets at the various hotels were huge and varied, catering to many different cultures and their breakfasting preferences. Lunches and dinners were in hotels and other venues that catered to large touring groups. Food was local cuisine served family style on lazy-susans. Sometimes it was buffet. These were venues that served the group tours industry and they operated 7 days a week; they have plenty of experience at serving large groups of people in a timely fashion. 

 

Viking has been doing business in China since the mid-2000s and is well respected. They work with local staff, all of whom are trained in the hospitality. They know what they are doing and they understand the audience they are working with.

 

Edited April 6 by Peregrina651

[Breckski]

31 minutes ago, Peregrina651 said:

What makes you say that? Viking has been already spent over 10 years in China taking boatloads of guests to Shanghai, Beijing, Xi'an and Tibet. They already know where to take people for meals. Just know in advance that if you don't like Chinese food, then you should not be considering this itinerary.

 

 

My apologies.  I didn't know they had been taking groups of 900 to these locations already.

 

In any event, I still wouldn't want to do a land tour to China with 900 people.  We liked our solo trip greatly though.

[CDNPolar]

6 hours ago, Peregrina651 said:

 

Dee, I'm really sorry that you missed the river cruise.

 

We did the river cruise in 2010. Viking's China team has been my gold standard ever since; they were a well-oiled machine with never a missed beat. The river vessel carried around 300 pax. I can't remember how many buses we were but the guide-escorts knew how to stagger arrival times at the various venues such that we were not tripping over one another, including at meals. In country, we were spread over multiple scheduled flights. The guide-escorts were great at getting us through security and on to the plane, with almost no waiting in the lounge area. In other words, they had the people moving down to a science. Most importantly, the our escorts knew where the good bathrooms were -- but even then, you need to bring your own supplies -- tp and sanitizer. (For more details, see the RiverCruising thread called Viking China Part 2)

 

I do agree with you however, that managing 900 vs 300 is a concern but I think Viking's China office is up to the task. There are many hotel options in China and Viking will probably use more than one hotel in each city.  Viking has been visiting these cities  on a regular basis for well over 10 years. 

 

Moreover, I would not be surprised to learn that they have opted less than full capacity at the start of the venture -- similar to the Welcome Back Cruises of 2021, which carried less than 500 pax.

 

 

 

What makes you say that? Viking has been already spent over 10 years in China taking boatloads of guests to Shanghai, Beijing, Xi'an and Tibet. They already know where to take people for meals. Just know in advance that if you don't like Chinese food, then you should not be considering this itinerary.

 

In China, most of the meals were included even for the land-based portion. Breakfast buffets at the various hotels were huge and varied, catering to many different cultures and their breakfasting preferences. Lunches and dinners were in hotels and other venues that catered to large touring groups. Food was local cuisine served family style on lazy-susans. Sometimes it was buffet. These were venues that served the group tours industry and they operated 7 days a week; they have plenty of experience at serving large groups of people in a timely fashion. 

 

Viking has been doing business in China since the mid-2000s and is well respected. They work with local staff, all of whom are trained in the hospitality. They know what they are doing and they understand the audience they are working with.

 

 

We have land travelled to China a couple of times now with a land trip in the development stages including Tibet for next year.  

 

We personally have not been on the Viking's river cruise in China but our dear friends have and they said the execution of the land and air portions were seemless.

[CDNPolar]

5 hours ago, mwike said:

My apologies.  I didn't know they had been taking groups of 900 to these locations already.

 

In any event, I still wouldn't want to do a land tour to China with 900 people.  We liked our solo trip greatly though.

 

I hope I don't offend anyone with these comments, but my husband is Chinese and we have done some extensive travel to a few major cities and sites in China... and I would say this:

 

It does not matter if you are travelling with 900 cruise line guests or not. The Chinese themselves are huge tourists in their own country.  Every site you go to, whether you are with 900 Vikings or not, there will be thousands of Chinese tourists at the same site.  And, in my experience, they are a friendly but "aggressive" tourist group.  Aggressive in the nicest way possible.  If you want to see the main site that you are there to see you have to be ready to move yourself through the crowd elbow to elbow to get to the front.  If you are shy or not aggressive enough you will not see what you are there to see.  I learned to "shuffle" my feet constantly and in a direction through the crowd.  When you get to the front you take your pictures and shuffle out of the crowd.

 

Now, not every site is like that, but when you are at a site where one of the view points into a roped off building is only 10 feet wide, this is where the thick crowds are.

 

I was educated by a private guide that we had on one day's outing that I was leaving too much space between me and the person in front of me as individuals see this gap and they butt in.  This is just normal behaviour in China.  

 

This is my experience at the largest tourist sites.  I certainly visited places that were not like this, but there are always a lot of Chinese tourists in the mix.  They love their country and travel it extensively.

[CILCIANRQTS]

13 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

Net yield: 6.9%

Operating loss:  $1.86 Billion on gross revenue of $4.7 Billion.  Which means for every dollar of revenue, they lost almost 40 cents.

 

Interestingly, the article focuses on the bookings, not the financial performance.  Hmmm.

 

 

 

 

They lose money on every sale, but they make it up in volume. 😉😎

[FlyerTalker]

1 hour ago, CILCIANRQTS said:

They lose money on every sale, but they make it up in volume. 😉😎

 

I was gonna use that joke myself.  Glad someone else enjoys it.

 

 

[Jim Avery]

Is Viking trying to do too many different things with too many moving parts to protect their core business.  Whatever that might be these days...

[WanderingTravels]

They recorded a non-cash "private derivatives loss" of $2B in 2023.  That is defined as "the non-cash loss (gain) on the remeasurement of the fair value of the derivatives associated with our Series A Preference Shares, Series B Preference Shares and Series C Preference Shares. Our Series A Preference Shares and Series B Preference Shares are no longer outstanding since the issuance of Series C Preference Shares in 2021. Our Series C Preference Shares will automatically convert to ordinary shares immediately prior to the consummation of this offering."

 

Without that non-cash loss the company would have reported a $1.1 billion EBITDA, impressive.

[CCWineLover]

1 hour ago, Jim Avery said:

Is Viking trying to do too many different things with too many moving parts to protect their core business.  Whatever that might be these days...

Maybe so, Jim.  I've seen that happen to so many companies over the years.  Some succeed and some do not.

[Jim Avery]

1 hour ago, WanderingTravels said:

They recorded a non-cash "private derivatives loss" of $2B in 2023.  That is defined as "the non-cash loss (gain) on the remeasurement of the fair value of the derivatives associated with our Series A Preference Shares, Series B Preference Shares and Series C Preference Shares. Our Series A Preference Shares and Series B Preference Shares are no longer outstanding since the issuance of Series C Preference Shares in 2021. Our Series C Preference Shares will automatically convert to ordinary shares immediately prior to the consummation of this offering."

 

Without that non-cash loss the company would have reported a $1.1 billion EBITDA, impressive.

Our recent Viking experiences indicate they are at a strong price point, have limited to no discounts, have a very full load level (including two world cruise ships) so they should be making lots of money.  I suppose they have worked through most of the covid related "funny money" which represented money long since spent but expenses (trips) still owed.  That must have been hard to deal with.  The IPO seems very complex even by today's standards but I am hoping for the best for Viking and not a Carnival Corp. like result.  I do have to say our recent sailing was the first time in near 400 days onboard that I generally did not like the overall food experience.  One of the easiest areas to save a few bucks.

[lackcreativity]

1 hour ago, WanderingTravels said:

They recorded a non-cash "private derivatives loss" of $2B in 2023.  That is defined as "the non-cash loss (gain) on the remeasurement of the fair value of the derivatives associated with our Series A Preference Shares, Series B Preference Shares and Series C Preference Shares. Our Series A Preference Shares and Series B Preference Shares are no longer outstanding since the issuance of Series C Preference Shares in 2021. Our Series C Preference Shares will automatically convert to ordinary shares immediately prior to the consummation of this offering."

 

Without that non-cash loss the company would have reported a $1.1 billion EBITDA, impressive.

Even with my degree in mathematics and my handful of accounting classes, I must admit the first paragraph was a head scratcher. Fortunately, I think I got the last line!

[CDNPolar]

We have been talking about this a lot at home.

 

Our view is that Viking to this point has presented a product that we love and because of that have sailed 10 or 11 times now (have to go back and count) and we have 4 future cruises on the books.

 

We feel that Viking have controlled their product and kept their product reasonably dependable.  

 

I do believe that the pandemic hurt Viking like most other companies and had lasting impact, but somehow they kept the product in tact and that we as the guest did not see too much of that impact.

 

We are afraid that with shareholders to please, that the product will start to erode and we will see a decline.

[Clay Clayton]

On 4/6/2024 at 6:59 AM, mwike said:

My thoughts exactly   We visited China before as independent travelers so know enough to be dangerous.  I told my wife that Viking will have problems with the land portion of these trips due to the volume of people combined with inherent difficulties involved with traveling in China.  Heck, feeding 900 people in China won't be the easiest to arrange and certainly won't be easy to do in a manner that satisfies most.  

 

 

 

Can’t speak to doing it in a regular 3 meal a day basis but on our Ocean’s cruise in the before times from Bejing (Tian) to Hong Kong Viking did a great job of feeding four or five busloads of folks on our excursions. China had an abundance of event halls which is what we experienced, so I could imagine them contracting with several to handle all 900 guests?

[CDNPolar]

5 minutes ago, Clay Clayton said:

Can’t speak to doing it in a regular 3 meal a day basis but on our Ocean’s cruise in the before times from Bejing (Tian) to Hong Kong Viking did a great job of feeding four or five busloads of folks on our excursions. China had an abundance of event halls which is what we experienced, so I could imagine them contracting with several to handle all 900 guests?

 

It is not like China is not accustomed to large numbers of people.

[May B]

23 hours ago, CILCIANRQTS said:

They lose money on every sale, but they make it up in volume. 😉😎

One of my favorite quotes from my father! 🥰

[PasadenaDave]

On 4/5/2024 at 6:52 PM, FlyerTalker said:

Net yield: 6.9%

Operating loss:  $1.86 Billion on gross revenue of $4.7 Billion.  Which means for every dollar of revenue, they lost almost 40 cents.

 

Interestingly, the article focuses on the bookings, not the financial performance.  Hmmm.

 

 

 

 

I like the revenue increase from 2019-2023.  You can’t look at 20-22 due to pandemic and all of the 125% cruise credit vouchers which built a lot of goodwill.  The payback time for both river and ocean vessels is decent. My concern is the number of new ships to be delivered given available ports and shoreside customer service.

 

I could see them having one ship on the west coast sailing depending on season between Santiago and Vancouver.  There is also likely demand/capacity between Barcelona and Baltic for two ships plus another Southwest Europe/ Canaries/ North Africa.  Plus a ship year round AUS/NZ/ Asia. Perhaps my concern of the fleet size is unfounded.

 

No, I won’t be a buyer, unless there are worthwhile perks, then maybe a small position 

[Twitchly]

On 4/6/2024 at 5:10 AM, CDNPolar said:

If you want to see the main site that you are there to see you have to be ready to move yourself through the crowd elbow to elbow to get to the front.  If you are shy or not aggressive enough you will not see what you are there to see.

This echoes my experience in Asia. Lines are not a thing.