Higher then Normal Prices?

[jimbo5544]

8 hours ago, Illbcruzn4life said:

That's why I have been booking MSC. Just booked a 7 night from Brooklyn for this weekend for about $1400 for 2 with the drink package and wifi. Booked an OV gty and got a balcony.

We are up north visiting family and we took two grand kids to Micky D for lunch (yuck) and the bill was fifty bucks…..

[jimbo5544]

15 hours ago, firefly333 said:

For reasons idk I too have seen some better princess prices for solo ot of Galveston. Also MSC currently seems to have the cheapest prices. . Though as you said it may not be going out of your port ... yet but they seem to be expanding. First I heard they are building a 4th ter final in Galveston and now I'm reading they will be building a new terminal in port Canaveral so they are for sure expanding. Royal has more new ships coming which expands their capacity. Icon just barely started and utopia will be new and coming to do short cruises out of PC.

 

With so much more capacity coming online eventually how can prices not eventually start to come down. 

 

Also you need to look at how each line prices what you want to book. For me carnival is often more expensive than royal. For a while royal was always cheaper than carnival because unlike csrnivalmtheir loyalty rewards make a huge difference. Group rates on carnival are nothing special but on royal I have gotten some totally awesome deals for group rates. You cant see royals group rates but even a solo cabin I can get group rates thru my TA. So between group rates, then I get $250 off as a diamond +, then as a solo I get 25% off the total cruisefare. At 340 pts it says 50% off the 2nd pax, but it's the same as 25% off the total cruise fare. 

 

I love carnival and their journey cruises are awesome, just same as you unless you gamble carnival is often higher priced than other lines. That's my issue. Only royal gives me as a solo a discount and 2 loyalty pts per  night so it's faster to get higher in their tier. Blerk always says carnival doesnt have to buy peoples loyalty, some people dont care about peice and will book the same line. I look at price. I'd rather do more cruises on the same $$$ amount.

 

I'm with you carnival lately has cost  more than some like msc or princess. I'd like to try HAL but dont want to drive. My friends say HAL has really good food. I'm more into food than trivia.

 

Each line is playing different pricing games since covid imo. People are saying they can book celebrity for less than royal, group rates, for 2 pax, not as a solo.

We are considering trying HAL, have a good friend that used to work for CCL that now works for them and ahs been trying to get us to try it.  Was just looking at last night.,

[firefly333]

I rarely check prices, but last night I checked on a couple cheapies, explorer 5 days out of PC which I admit is royal, price is now down to about what I paid 6 months ago, about $650 total solo. Plus they are now throw in some extra obc to entice you to book. 

 

I'm still in the middle of moving. Sitting at a hotel now for 10 days and no word on when the moving truck will arrive. I can tell you who NOT to book with. I actually was so stressed out I didnt board my 7 day mariner cruise and was a no show. 

 

Everything costs more these days. I moved some antiques I've held onto for 50 years, this and that kind of thing, 50 boxes of quilts plus my mom made and 1 bedroom of furniture. I wish I hadnt bothered to ship my sofa and chair, it would have been cheaper to replace and buy new. They estimated under $7500. Movers got there and said now the price is over $9k if you want your bed and dresser stuff on the truck. I could have replaced all my old furniture for less than the cost to ship. I've promised myself I'll never move again. Bought some chicken tenders in the deli section. 8.99 a lb. Everything costs a lot more than it used to, it's not just cruises. A pre made salad in the publix deli 8.99. Plus or minus. 

 

Having crossed the country and buying stuff on the road, everything costs more. I can still find some solo shorter bargains, on older ships. Used to be able to find carnival last minute for like starting 399 pp. Under 1k off season. Now there doesnt seem to be a off season. I'm about to check carnival prices for fun, but until the moving truck arrives or I at least have some word when to expect it, my enthusiasm for cruising is at a all time low. Not cruising fault. Next time I'll throw away my furniture and just ship knick knacks and save some money. It's been 10 days and they cant tell me anything but the moving company will text 24 to 48 hours ahead. I could write a book about now on price inflation.

[mfs2k]

20 hours ago, Salem615 said:

Has this been the norm lately regarding cruise fares?

It's basic supply and demand. 

 

Cruise lines have sold out many sailings within a year. Prices for remaining cabins are superhigh.  Yet, the economy is terrible. Go figure. 

[staceyglow]

17 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

Land resorts in the Caribbean were not 30 billion in the hole either.

That's not how it works. If it did, Red Lobster could work its way out of bankruptcy by tripling the price of their entrees. The customer isn't going to pay more just because a company has financial problems. 

 

Cruise fares have gotten more expensive because enough people are willing to pay them. Those ships are still sailing full even with the increased prices. 

[jimbo5544]

27 minutes ago, staceyglow said:

That's not how it works. If it did, Red Lobster could work its way out of bankruptcy by tripling the price of their entrees. The customer isn't going to pay more just because a company has financial problems. 

 

Cruise fares have gotten more expensive because enough people are willing to pay them. Those ships are still sailing full even with the increased prices. 

First of all Carnival Corp is not bankrupt, so that analogy does not work.  Next, the plan that Carnival Corp and CCL  have to get out of the financial situation they are in (all COVID related) is working well beyond expectations.  They have paid off more than 6 BILLION in one year, quite commendable in fact.  Cruise rates are tied to pent up demand from cruisers who have not sailed in years due to above said problem, obviously higher with all the demand. Macro 101 in college.  On that we agree.  IF you think there are not factors in their pricing tied to the financial situation noted, you are…..wrong.   Simply a fact.  

[aborgman]

2 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

Did I suggest you were the problem?  Facts are facts regardless of whom is to blame.  

 

Irrelevant facts are irrelevant facts, because who is "to blame" is irrelevant.

 

Cruises used to be cheaper than similar land vacations, now they're largely more expensive.

 

The reasons for that reality in no way change that reality.

[staceyglow]

28 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

First of all Carnival Corp is not bankrupt, so that analogy does not work.  Next, the plan that Carnival Corp and CCL  have to get out of the financial situation they are in (all COVID related) is working well beyond expectations.  They have paid off more than 6 BILLION in one year, quite commendable in fact.  Cruise rates are tied to pent up demand from cruisers who have not sailed in years due to above said problem, obviously higher with all the demand. Macro 101 in college.  On that we agree.  IF you think there are not factors in their pricing tied to the financial situation noted, you are…..wrong.   Simply a fact.  

If you mean there are pressures on the company to raise cash to pay off that debt, I would agree. Raising prices is only one of several strategies they can try.

 

However, a well-managed company is always going to raise prices to the highest amount that they believe the consumer will pay, regardless of their debt.  As a retired CFO, I can tell you that is simply a fact. 

 

I can promise you that even if Carnival had zero debt, the cruise fares would be the same.  They are charging what they are charging because they can.  

[ontheweb]

37 minutes ago, staceyglow said:

If you mean there are pressures on the company to raise cash to pay off that debt, I would agree. Raising prices is only one of several strategies they can try.

 

However, a well-managed company is always going to raise prices to the highest amount that they believe the consumer will pay, regardless of their debt.  As a retired CFO, I can tell you that is simply a fact. 

 

I can promise you that even if Carnival had zero debt, the cruise fares would be the same.  They are charging what they are charging because they can.  

Yes, it comes down to one simple rule---the law of supply and demand.

[jimbo5544]

1 hour ago, aborgman said:

 

Irrelevant facts are irrelevant facts, because who is "to blame" is irrelevant. But you get a bonus for using this irrelevant word 3 times.

 

Cruises used to be cheaper than similar land vacations, now they're largely more expensive. (Just need to add cheaper one more time….)

 

The reasons for that reality in no way change that reality.

LOL, trying to think of a reply where I can use the operative word twice in a small sentence.  We can agree on the second sentence.  Again, if price is the reason you do it, then go land.  Pricing for cruising will come down as demand comes down.  

Edited June 6 by jimbo5544

[jimbo5544]

54 minutes ago, staceyglow said:

If you mean there are pressures on the company to raise cash to pay off that debt, I would agree. Raising prices is only one of several strategies they can try.

 

However, a well-managed company is always going to raise prices to the highest amount that they believe the consumer will pay, regardless of their debt.  As a retired CFO, I can tell you that is simply a fact. 

 

I can promise you that even if Carnival had zero debt, the cruise fares would be the same.  They are charging what they are charging because they can.  

I would totally disagree with your last point.  History is the best example to that.  Would they higher than they were…sure.  Are they inflated due to their financial situation….100% they are.  

[jimbo5544]

18 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Yes, it comes down to one simple rule---the law of supply and demand.

As it always does on pricing, and in a stock company, they respond to one entity, the stockholder.  That said, it is not an exclusivity.  Other factors have (in this case significant) implications.  

[aborgman]

4 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

I would totally disagree with your last point.  History is the best example to that.  Would they higher than they were…sure.  Are they inflated due to their financial situation….100% they are.  

 

They will always charge what the market will bear, whether $100 billion in debt or making $100 billion in profit every year.

 

 

[jimbo5544]

4 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

They will always charge what the market will bear, whether $100 billion in debt or making $100 billion in profit every year.

 

 

History says otherwise.  That must be a irrelevant fact, I will move on. 

[aborgman]

1 minute ago, jimbo5544 said:

History says otherwise.  That must be a irrelevant fact, I will move on. 

 

You're asserting that Carnival sells tickets for less than they think they could sell them for? They choose to forego profit?

 

I mean... It's literally impossible to sell tickets for more than the market will bear - so only selling for less is a possibility, and that would be violating the fiduciary duty to stockholders.

 

 

[mfs2k]

31 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Yes, it comes down to one simple rule---the law of supply and demand.

Agree 100%  Cruise lines will continue to raise prices as long as there's demand.  Revenue managers and computer algorithms much smarter than me find sweet spots between rate and occupancy to maximize profits.   The prices you see are the result of those calculations. 

[mfs2k]

Just now, aborgman said:

It's literally impossible to sell tickets for more than the market will bear - so only selling for less is a possibility

 

This isn't really true.  The market isn't one person.  It's millions of potential buyers.  What matters is how many cruises they can sell when they raise prices, and if the higher fares they can sell are more profitable with lower occupancy.  It's basic economic elasticity at play. 

[Joanne G.]

1 hour ago, aborgman said:

 

. . . . Cruises used to be cheaper than similar land vacations, now they're largely more expensive.

 

This has been my experience, particularly for vacations in Europe.  There are reasons I like cruising in Europe as opposed to getting around by train and bus, but I no longer find it a given that a cruise is more economical that a land vacation.  I spend more time on research before committing to a cruise these days.   That being said, last month I spent 7 nights pre-cruise in London and 3 nights post-cruise in Copenhagen, and hotels, nice meals, and taxis in those two cities gave me sticker-shock, too! 

 

Besides the cruise fares being higher these days, the cost of cruise-sponsored excursions in Europe have increased significantly compared to my pre-covid experiences. I travel solo or with a friend, so I am only paying for myself.  For a family, excursions could cost more than the cruise fare.  (Yes, I know there are options to ship-sponsored excursions.)

[jimbo5544]

Just now, aborgman said:

 

You're asserting that Carnival sells tickets for less than they think they could sell them for? They choose to forego profit?

 

I mean... It's literally impossible to sell tickets for more than the market will bear - so only selling for less is a possibility, and that would be violating the fiduciary duty to stockholders.

 

 

Last post on the topic from me.  What I am saying is Carnival was the value option in the equation, which meant their prices were slightly lower than their equivalent competition. That is not the case anymore.  Of course they charge what the market will bear.  That said, nothing has changed (from a cruising comparison perspective) and they are clearly NOT the price leader.  They could have done that at any time in the past and did not, we could discuss the whys or why nots but that is a different discussion.  What I am really referring to is all the ancillary items that they are choosing significantly more for.  While I cannot argue that basic economics play a factor here, it is clear from a historical basis that the company is doing things significantly different than they did in the past.  You feel the reason for this is irrelevant, which is fine.  I fell strongly it is, we can agree to disagree.  The driver for all this is to answer to the stockholders, as it was, is now and will always be. 

[aborgman]

4 minutes ago, mfs2k said:

 

This isn't really true.  The market isn't one person.  It's millions of potential buyers.  What matters is how many cruises they can sell when they raise prices, and if the higher fares they can sell are more profitable with lower occupancy.  It's basic economic elasticity at play. 

 

If the tickets sell... By definition the market would bear that price. The market is all the people, in total.

 

Now - the market itself can be changed by volume/price balancing, depending on the price elasticity of demand and availability of replacement goods.

 

 

[aborgman]

1 minute ago, jimbo5544 said:

Last post on the topic from me.  What I am saying is Carnival was the value option in the equation, which meant their prices were slightly lower than their equivalent competition. That is not the case anymore.  Of course they charge what the market will bear.  That said, nothing has changed (from a cruising comparison perspective) and they are clearly NOT the price leader.  They could have done that at any time in the past and did not, we could discuss the whys or why nots but that is a different discussion.  What I am really referring to is all the ancillary items that they are choosing significantly more for.  While I cannot argue that basic economics play a factor here, it is clear from a historical basis that the company is doing things significantly different than they did in the past.  You feel the reason for this is irrelevant, which is fine.  I fell strongly it is, we can agree to disagree.  The driver for all this is to answer to the stockholders, as it was, is now and will always be. 

 

 

1) What I am saying is Carnival was the value option in the equation, which meant their prices were slightly lower than their equivalent competition.

 

Carnival was the value option because those prices are what the market would bear for their product... Not because Carnival was choosing to sell below market rate. They were not intentionally forgoing profit.

 

2)They could have done that at any time in the past and did not

 

No,  they could not have - or they would have. Their offerings would not support the higher prices in the market in the past. They were not choosing to forego profit, they just couldn't sell at those higher price points in the past.

 

3) You feel the reason for this is irrelevant,

 

It's very relevant for CCL.

 

It's 100% irrelevant to travelers/market.

 

If there is a cheaper replacement good, CCL will lose customers to it - and the reason why CCL is more expensive has zero effect on that loss. It could be because CCL is donating millions to charity, or because CCL is spending millions on supervillains... And the results in the market will be exactly the same.

[sid_9169]

My recent 8 night Horizon cruise was $1,786 including port fees and taxes for an inside cabin... Add in Cheers ($565) and gratuities ($128 for a solo) and I'm at $2,479 for an INSIDE CABIN... There aren't really many bargains out there anymore it seems...

[MeganGC1983]

11 hours ago, johnboy036 said:

1. Prices are definitely higher than the past few years but I have not paid close to $500 + a night for a balcony for any of my upcoming cruises. This summer in Europe I paid $336 a night for a balcony with $500 on board credit. This October is  $267 a night and October 2025 $255 a night both with $500 on board credit. I am booking earlier than in the past to get better pricing, as all my cruises booked 12-15 months before sailing.  I'm flexible on where sailing from and best pricing right now appears to be from New Orleans or Long Beach. 

We are paying $230 per person, per night in Europe this summer, and it came with $600 bar tab and $100 sailor loot. 

[jimbo5544]

34 minutes ago, sid_9169 said:

My recent 8 night Horizon cruise was $1,786 including port fees and taxes for an inside cabin... Add in Cheers ($565) and gratuities ($128 for a solo) and I'm at $2,479 for an INSIDE CABIN... There aren't really many bargains out there anymore it seems...

demand is high, and when that happens prices are high.  Things will level off to some point, where that is will be interesting to see.

[Illbcruzn4life]

22 hours ago, firefly333 said:

For reasons idk I too have seen some better princess prices for solo ot of Galveston. Also MSC currently seems to have the cheapest prices. . Though as you said it may not be going out of your port ... yet but they seem to be expanding. First I heard they are building a 4th ter final in Galveston and now I'm reading they will be building a new terminal in port Canaveral so they are for sure expanding. Royal has more new ships coming which expands their capacity. Icon just barely started and utopia will be new and coming to do short cruises out of PC.

 

With so much more capacity coming online eventually how can prices not eventually start to come down. 

 

Also you need to look at how each line prices what you want to book. For me carnival is often more expensive than royal. For a while royal was always cheaper than carnival because unlike csrnivalmtheir loyalty rewards make a huge difference. Group rates on carnival are nothing special but on royal I have gotten some totally awesome deals for group rates. You cant see royals group rates but even a solo cabin I can get group rates thru my TA. So between group rates, then I get $250 off as a diamond +, then as a solo I get 25% off the total cruisefare. At 340 pts it says 50% off the 2nd pax, but it's the same as 25% off the total cruise fare. 

 

I love carnival and their journey cruises are awesome, just same as you unless you gamble carnival is often higher priced than other lines. That's my issue. Only royal gives me as a solo a discount and 2 loyalty pts per  night so it's faster to get higher in their tier. Blerk always says carnival doesnt have to buy peoples loyalty, some people dont care about peice and will book the same line. I look at price. I'd rather do more cruises on the same $$$ amount.

 

I'm with you carnival lately has cost  more than some like msc or princess. I'd like to try HAL but dont want to drive. My friends say HAL has really good food. I'm more into food than trivia.

 

Each line is playing different pricing games since covid imo. People are saying they can book celebrity for less than royal, group rates, for 2 pax, not as a solo.

They are in the midst of building a new terminal in Miami also for the World America ship coming next April. NEW STATE-OF-THE-ART CRUISE TERMINAL AT PORTMIAMI | MSC Cruises (msccruisesusa.com)