New York-Quebec-Quebec-Fort Lauderdale October 18-November 9

[Ibis]

Looking ahead to what might be our next Crystal cruise and wonder if anyone here has a favorite hotel in close proximity to the cruise port in Manhattan? Or is there a preference to disregard proximity and just go for a favorite hotel? Please, any thoughts are greatly appreciated as we have only sailed out of Brooklyn, not Manhattan. Also wondering if anyone is willing to share thoughts based on past experience sailing this itinerary at what is obviously the end of the season. Is the weather already too cold to enjoy touring or excursions, seas too rough? Of course, like all else, it is subjective and depends on individual perspective. As long time Floridians our perspective might be slightly biased🥶. Seriously, any shared thoughts appreciated! Thanks in advance :-)

 

[Keith1010]

It's always challenging to predict the weather since weather often is not the same year over year so it's really hard to predict what it will be like. It could be sunny, cloudy, rainy, windy or a combination and the seas could be calm or rough or in between.  I like this cruise and have sailed New York to Quebec that time of year and we had a blast and sailed from there down to Florida at a similar time as yours and enjoyed it as well. Not everyday was great from a weather perspective but enough were to make it a great cruise and if weather is bad on a port day we can make the ship the destination.

 

Another time we did a cruise to Bermuda R/T New York City in October and were pleasantly surprised how calm the Ocean was. But the next week it could have been rough.  

 

As to where to stay depends on a lot of factors and that includes when are you arriving?  If you have a few days in New York City I wouldn't stay too close to the port but rather we would stay in locations where we can walk around.  The other factor is price.  The price is all over the place so it depends on the amount you want to spend.  With so many hotels to choose from more information would be very helpful.

 

On our last visit we stayed at the New York Palace Hotel for the very first time and loved it. We used to walk by the hotel on many visits to NYC and told ourselves we would check it out.  But we had a few days in the CIty and enjoyed its location including taking a long walk to and from Central Park along with several other walks.  But not knowing your price and how long you want to stay it might not be what you want.

 

Keith

 

 

[Roland4]

We are doing this B2B as well. We were originally booked Quebec/Fort Lauderdale/Bridgetown, but when they made the NY/QUE cruise a theatre-theme cruise, with our friend Jim Brochu as one of the lecturers, we made the change.

 

This is not the latest Crystal has sailed from Quebec. We did one several years ago on Symphony that boarded on Oct 30, and another on Serenity that boarded Oct 31. This will be early Fall in Canada, so the weather, while cool by Florida standards, should be comfortable for the Canadian ports, as well as Quebec City.

 

We are going to NYC two days early and are staying at the Hilton Midtown. It is a bit of a hike to Times Square, but we don't mind walking and there a couple of favourite restaurants in the area. We have usually stayed at the Hyatt Centric, which is a stone's throw from Times Square, but it has become ridiculously more expensive since the last time we were there, pre-pandemic.

[nancygp]

The weather can really vary.  I’ve done similar routes several times.  I highly recommend the Kimberly hotel.  It’s located on the east side around 50th street.  It’s not inexpensive but not outrageously priced.

 

nancy

[rafinmd]

I'm trying to figure out what the distant foreign port is that makes this B2B legal.

 

Roy

[Texas Tillie]

58 minutes ago, rafinmd said:

I'm trying to figure out what the distant foreign port is that makes this B2B legal.

 

Roy

 

Roy, since it's a B2B, I don't think a distant foreign port is required. It's US to Canada on the first segment and Canada to US on the second segment. As far as the law, each segment is lawful.

 

Patty

[ctjon]

I also think, and could be wrong, that they changed the laws last couple of years so a ship can do Alaska to continental US without a foreign stop.  Doesn't apply elsewhere but I think it was due to Canada not wanting visitors during Covid.

[BWIVince]

1 hour ago, rafinmd said:

I'm trying to figure out what the distant foreign port is that makes this B2B legal.

 

Roy

 

Is it possible they're still staying on for the segment to Bridgetown?  That would make it legal.  

 

Vince

[BWIVince]

4 minutes ago, ctjon said:

I also think, and could be wrong, that they changed the laws last couple of years so a ship can do Alaska to continental US without a foreign stop.  Doesn't apply elsewhere but I think it was due to Canada not wanting visitors during Covid.

 

My mind went there for a minute too, but that authority was really limited, and expired on March 31, 2022 or when Canada lifted its restrictions, whichever happened first.

 

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/593

 

Vince

[nancygp]

1 hour ago, BWIVince said:

 

Is it possible they're still staying on for the segment to Bridgetown?  That would make it legal.  

 

Vince

I believe that’s why it’s legal.  I’m sailing on another line from Canada to Florida.  I could not add the segment prior, New York to Canada.

 

Nancy

[Roland4]

3 minutes ago, nancygp said:

I believe that’s why it’s legal.  I’m sailing on another line from Canada to Florida.  I could not add the segment prior, New York to Canada.

 

Nancy

Interesting question, and one I had not thought about. Bottom line is, we are onboard from New York to Fort Lauderdale via Quebec City and the final payment has been made.

[nancygp]

6 minutes ago, Roland4 said:

Interesting question, and one I had not thought about. Bottom line is, we are onboard from New York to Fort Lauderdale via Quebec City and the final payment has been made.

It’s possible the difference between your cruise and mine, the Canada to Florida portion, you’re going to Bahamas and my cruise doesn’t go to another country.

[BWIVince]

11 minutes ago, Roland4 said:

Interesting question, and one I had not thought about. Bottom line is, we are onboard from New York to Fort Lauderdale via Quebec City and the final payment has been made.

 

Larry, if I were in your shoes, I would check with Crystal on this sooner instead of later (but that's just me).  When someone catches this closer to departure, assuming the law hasn't changed, they MAY just pay the fine, but they would have the right to just cancel your ticket and refund your money as the remedy for their error.  😞 It's not like the old days where they had to honor an erroneous contract at any cost.  

 

Not saying Crystal wouldn't take your position into account for their error, but I've seen suppliers do way stranger things in the past couple of years.  It can't hurt to get them to explain why this is legal, or rectify it now.

 

Vince

Edited June 17 by BWIVince

[BEAV]

Agree with Vince to check sooner than later. 
 

Our B2B was SF-Vancouver, Vancouver-Seattle. We weren’t notified by HAL until 10 days prior to sailing when US Customs/Border Protection flagged our names on both manifests. HAL offered to pay the fine on our behalf, but they wouldn’t budge. 
 

Although this was 2002, the PSVA laws haven’t budged. I think cruise lines have gotten better tracking these violations in recent years, but there still may be cracks in the system. 
 

I remember in year’s past, OC would often run NY-Florida, but swing to one of the ABC islands (or Bermuda?) to qualify the itinerary, rather than hugging the East Coast as they are on this sailing. 
 

Patty, when I first read your post I was thinking the same thing. But now I remember it’s a guest’s origin and destination that applies. And NY to Ft Lauderdale doesn’t cut it in the eyes of the authorities. Here on MY coast (😎), people try to do B2B Anchorage-Vancouver, Vancouver-Honolulu (typical in Fall), but it don’t work, either! 🙄

 

Larry, please prove us wrong! 
 

[BEAV]

Calling on @chengkp75, Cruise Critic’s resident maritime expert on these issues. 

[Texas Tillie]

1 hour ago, BEAV said:

Agree with Vince to check sooner than later. 
 

Our B2B was SF-Vancouver, Vancouver-Seattle. We weren’t notified by HAL until 10 days prior to sailing when US Customs/Border Protection flagged our names on both manifests. HAL offered to pay the fine on our behalf, but they wouldn’t budge. 
 

Although this was 2002, the PSVA laws haven’t budged. I think cruise lines have gotten better tracking these violations in recent years, but there still may be cracks in the system. 
 

I remember in year’s past, OC would often run NY-Florida, but swing to one of the ABC islands (or Bermuda?) to qualify the itinerary, rather than hugging the East Coast as they are on this sailing. 
 

Patty, when I first read your post I was thinking the same thing. But now I remember it’s a guest’s origin and destination that applies. And NY to Ft Lauderdale doesn’t cut it in the eyes of the authorities. Here on MY coast (😎), people try to do B2B Anchorage-Vancouver, Vancouver-Honolulu (typical in Fall), but it don’t work, either! 🙄

 

Larry, please prove us wrong! 
 

 

My problem, I thought the rule applied to the individual cruise, not a person on successive cruises. Had no idea the old law was even dumber than I thought!! I did a New York to Miami once but we went to Aruba and Curacao. 

[Roland4]

2 hours ago, BEAV said:

Agree with Vince to check sooner than later. 
 

Our B2B was SF-Vancouver, Vancouver-Seattle. We weren’t notified by HAL until 10 days prior to sailing when US Customs/Border Protection flagged our names on both manifests. HAL offered to pay the fine on our behalf, but they wouldn’t budge. 
 

Although this was 2002, the PSVA laws haven’t budged. I think cruise lines have gotten better tracking these violations in recent years, but there still may be cracks in the system. 
 

I remember in year’s past, OC would often run NY-Florida, but swing to one of the ABC islands (or Bermuda?) to qualify the itinerary, rather than hugging the East Coast as they are on this sailing. 
 

Patty, when I first read your post I was thinking the same thing. But now I remember it’s a guest’s origin and destination that applies. And NY to Ft Lauderdale doesn’t cut it in the eyes of the authorities. Here on MY coast (😎), people try to do B2B Anchorage-Vancouver, Vancouver-Honolulu (typical in Fall), but it don’t work, either! 🙄

 

Larry, please prove us wrong! 
 

I have to admit I am as confused as everyone else. While I never thought of it, technically it is not permitted under PVSA. Two thoughts come to  mind. We are sailing NYC/QUE/FLL with a stop in NYC on the second leg, making it "technically" a roundtrip with a "foreign" port stop, which is permitted. The problem I have is the NYC/FLL leg, which goes from Jacksonville to Nassau to FLL, and I am not sure how that fits under PVSA!! Possibly because we are Canadian citizens and therefore not actually travelling between two US ports?? The more I think of that, the more I think that may be the case??

 

Time for a call to Crystal!

Edited June 18 by Roland4

[daleandrews]

I spent quite a few years practicing maritime law (first in private practice, then with the government).  I'm happily retired now and try not to wade into these issues but I will at least put my foot a little into the water on this one.  🙂 

 

The Passenger Vessel Services Act generally precludes transportation between points in the U.S. unless a "distant" foreign port is served on the route.  A round trip leaving and returning to the same U.S. port and visiting one or more foreign ports on its itinerary is not deemed transportation since you leave and return from the same city.  Similarly transportation from a foreign port (e.g. Quebec City) and terminating in a U.S. port (e.g. Fort Lauderdale) is okay because the transportation is not between U.S. ports.  BUT combining two back-to-back cruises so that the passenger leaves from one U.S. port and returns to another presents a PVSA problem.  Cruise Critic has a pretty good article on all of this (including the problems presented by back-to-backs) at the following site:  https://www.cruisecritic.com/articles/jones-act-and-pvsa-whats-the-difference-and-how-do-they-affect-my-cruise#how-does-the-pvsa-affect-cruise-itineraries-and-ships?  

 

BTW -- we will be on portions of this cruise as well -- but we are departing from Quebec City on October 26 and disembarking on the 18th of November in Barbados.  

[May B]

To the OP: I am also a long-time Floridian (48 years) and I love leaving for points north any time during the summer heat. If this B2B does actually materialize for you, there are two ways to look at it. Either you get to enjoy the cooler weather before it gets to Florida two or three months later, or you miss the truly wonderful late October and November weather here in Florida.

 

Travel is full of trade-offs. If most of these ports really appeal to you, I personally would happily risk having to pack my blue jeans, turtle necks and blazers. And socks and loafers.

 

 

 

[BEAV]

9 minutes ago, Roland4 said:

I have to admit I am as confused as everyone else. While I never thought of it, technically it is not permitted under PVSA. Two thoughts come to  mind. We are sailing NYC/QUE/FLL with a stop in NYC on the second leg, making it "technically" a roundtrip with a "foreign" port stop, which is permitted. The problem I have is the NYC/FLL leg, which goes from Jacksonville to Nassau to FLL, and I am not sure how that fits under PVSA!! Possibly because we are Canadian citizens and therefore not actually travelling between two US ports?? The more I think of that, the more I think that may be the case??

Your non-US citizenship has nothing to do with it. The PVSA applies to anyone sailing these itineraries, not just US citizens if I understand you correct. And New York, on the second sailing, isn’t a port of disembarkation/embarkation.  No one would qualify under PVSA to board in NY to sail to Ft Lauderdale without calling on a distant foreign port. 

[ferdinand the bull]

1. I also am not an expert in the matter, but I firmly believe that there ought to be an exemption for Gloria Gayner!

[BEAV]

I think Gloria’s exempt as an entertainer. 😉

 

And Larry can very simply add on the segment to Barbados. Worth it to sail with @out 2 see 😃

[BWIVince]

4 hours ago, Texas Tillie said:

 

My problem, I thought the rule applied to the individual cruise, not a person on successive cruises. Had no idea the old law was even dumber than I thought!! I did a New York to Miami once but we went to Aruba and Curacao. 

The law is totally that dumb.  🙂. It looks at the transport of individual passengers vs. just itineraries.  Fortunately in Crystal’s case (vs. a lot of US mass market lines), most people that tack together segments either touch another continent during their travels or return to the same US port they left from, but then cases like this do pop up from time to time.  OC peppered their North American itineraries with calls at Aruba and Curacao (almost obsessively) to give everyone maximum flexibility and prevent headaches down the line, but sometimes it made the itineraries especially awkward in the process.

 

5 hours ago, BEAV said:

Agree with Vince to check sooner than later. 
 

Our B2B was SF-Vancouver, Vancouver-Seattle. We weren’t notified by HAL until 10 days prior to sailing when US Customs/Border Protection flagged our names on both manifests. HAL offered to pay the fine on our behalf, but they wouldn’t budge. 
 

Although this was 2002, the PSVA laws haven’t budged. I think cruise lines have gotten better tracking these violations in recent years, but there still may be cracks in the system. 
 

I remember in year’s past, OC would often run NY-Florida, but swing to one of the ABC islands (or Bermuda?) to qualify the itinerary, rather than hugging the East Coast as they are on this sailing. 
 

Patty, when I first read your post I was thinking the same thing. But now I remember it’s a guest’s origin and destination that applies. And NY to Ft Lauderdale doesn’t cut it in the eyes of the authorities. Here on MY coast (😎), people try to do B2B Anchorage-Vancouver, Vancouver-Honolulu (typical in Fall), but it don’t work, either! 🙄

 

Larry, please prove us wrong! 
 

I’m not surprised they didn’t allow the fine.  😔. The fine is supposed to be reserved for cases where the line didn’t know of or couldn’t control the passenger’s actions (and can be passed on to the passenger), and the waivers are supposed to be used in cases where the situation was unavoidable (national emergency, weather emergency, etc.).  If they let too many people just pay the fine it looks like a cash grab by CBP.

 

Vince

[ryndam]

We tried to book this exact b2b itinerary on OC. NYC-Quebec-Ft. Lauderdale. We were told “no”. Boarding in NYC and disembarking in Ft. Lauderdale not allowed as there was no designated “foreign port” between the two. We ultimately spent a week in NYC prior to flying to Montreal to join the ship in Quebec City to Ft. Lauderdale.

 

Rob

[ctjon]

THe PVSA should be repealed for good.  It was designed to protect the ship building industrywhich (other than military vessels) died a long time ago.  Now it just helps foreign ports