Cruise in a two person room with an infant as the third.

[thundercrack]

@Riles34

 

So glad it worked out for you, have a great short getaway and ignore all the negative comments, life is too short. 

[aborgman]

14 hours ago, mz-s said:

A room that can only accommodate two can only accommodate two, it doesn't matter if the third person you want to bring is 3 months old or 30 years old. I don't think that's difficult to comprehend but what do I know...

 

Saying you'll just go somewhere else won't change this fact, it just seems churlish.

 

That actually varies in the USA state to state.

 

In some states infants are NOT counted for fire capacity.

[aborgman]

13 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

Here's number two, then.  No, there are no exceptions for number of bodies assigned to staterooms/lifeboats.  

 

Cruise ships only have to have enough life boat berths for 75% of the passengers and crew.

[aborgman]

13 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

It never happens that too many people are assigned to lifeboats.  

 

Yes, it absolutely does.

 

They do not have to have a seat for everyone.

[mz-s]

17 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

That actually varies in the USA state to state.

 

In some states infants are NOT counted for fire capacity.

 

Irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

[aborgman]

2 minutes ago, mz-s said:

 

Irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

 

The fact that some jurisdictions count infants in room capacity and some do not is irrelevant to a discussion of infants and room capacity?

 

My experience with maritime law is they care a lot about vessel capacity, but not all that much about room capacity.

[jimbo5544]

14 hours ago, vwrestler171 said:

It's not Carnival.  it's the regulations they have to follow.  They have to have a bed in that room for each person. Doesn't matter if they are 6 mo or 100, there has to be a berth for them.  The fact you're upset that they won't break the rules for you(which could get them in trouble) says more about you than it does about them. 

bingo

[mz-s]

28 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

The fact that some jurisdictions count infants in room capacity and some do not is irrelevant to a discussion of infants and room capacity?

 

My experience with maritime law is they care a lot about vessel capacity, but not all that much about room capacity.

 

We aren't talking about Indiana or Atlantic City, we're talking about Carnival cruise ships.

[1025cruise]

3 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

Cruise ships only have to have enough life boat berths for 75% of the passengers and crew.

This is 100% wrong. There has to be enough life boat/raft space for 100% of the ship's complement.

[1025cruise]

12 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

No exceptions.  One lifeboat seat per heartbeat.  

I'm not saying there will be an exception to the one lifeboat seat per heartbeat. I'm saying Carnival can make an exception to allow an infant to stay in a 2 berth cabin, presuming the one lifeboat seat per soul requirement is met. And it appears, the OP was granted an exception.

[starstruck05]

4 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

Cruise ships only have to have enough life boat berths for 75% of the passengers and crew.

Are we sailing on the Titanic? This is NOT true and dangerous to spead that lie. The ships have MORE than 100% space for everyone. 

[mz-s]

1 hour ago, 1025cruise said:

This is 100% wrong. There has to be enough life boat/raft space for 100% of the ship's complement.

 

Therein lies the rub - a life raft is not the same as a life boat. Words matter.

[firefly333]

19 hours ago, Riles34 said:

WOW! It was a simple question asking if someone has done it before. I just thought asking here would be easier than waiting on hold for an hour. I am not upset at all about laws or with Carnival. Was just asking about a possible option. No where did I ever say I was upset. Free vs $3,000 is an easy decision to not go. It was just going to be a quick weekend getaway. So much anger in this world!

I have cruised 20 years and from what I've read carnival makes no exceptions. In the past I've heard royal Caribbean has made exceptions for a baby though I havent read of it since covid.

 

Unfortunately the posters are right, carnival will make no exceptions. Every person on carnival is a person. I'd have seen it posted if exceptions were made. 

[BlerkOne]

2 hours ago, 1025cruise said:

This is 100% wrong. There has to be enough life boat/raft space for 100% of the ship's complement.

Bingo. Some like to play semantics when they already know what was meant. But it does make you wonder about MegaShips of the Seas. A lot of people (in theory crew) might have to get into life rafts. I suspect a number would have to jump over the side to evacuate the ship within the required 30 minutes.

 

The life boat drill on Princess used to include instruction on the recommended way to jump over the side. Makes you wonder...

 

 

[edspec]

Glad this worked out for you @Riles34

[Essiesmom]

Some would board the rafts via an inflated slide.  I’ve seen a video of Captain Kate doing it on a Celebrity ship.  EM

[chengkp75]

6 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

Cruise ships only have to have enough life boat berths for 75% of the passengers and crew.

But, they must have 125% capacity in lifesaving equipment.

6 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

Yes, it absolutely does.

 

They do not have to have a seat for everyone.

This is in response to a post that said they never assign more bodies than seats to lifeboats.  That statement is correct.  Yours is not.  While they don't have a seat for "everyone" in lifeboats, they never assign more people to a muster station than can be accommodated in a lifeboat.

5 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

The fact that some jurisdictions count infants in room capacity and some do not is irrelevant to a discussion of infants and room capacity?

 

My experience with maritime law is they care a lot about vessel capacity, but not all that much about room capacity.

While it is correct that there are more "berths" on the ship than lifeboat/life raft capacity, it is also true that they will not sell a person a cruise if the total lifeboat capacity is exceeded.  The additional berths is to allow those who book 3-4 in a cabin to have flexibility in cabin category.  Similarly, they will not sell a cruise to a 3rd or 4th person in a cabin, even if the ship is below capacity, if the muster station that cabin is assigned to is full. 

2 hours ago, 1025cruise said:

This is 100% wrong. There has to be enough life boat/raft space for 100% of the ship's complement.

125%

1 hour ago, mz-s said:

 

Therein lies the rub - a life raft is not the same as a life boat. Words matter.

But, regardless of whether you are talking about a lifeboat or a life raft, you are assigned to one or the other based on your cabin, so the differentiation between boats and rafts is irrelevant to this argument.

[jimbo5544]

6 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

But, they must have 125% capacity in lifesaving equipment.

This is in response to a post that said they never assign more bodies than seats to lifeboats.  That statement is correct.  Yours is not.  While they don't have a seat for "everyone" in lifeboats, they never assign more people to a muster station than can be accommodated in a lifeboat.

While it is correct that there are more "berths" on the ship than lifeboat/life raft capacity, it is also true that they will not sell a person a cruise if the total lifeboat capacity is exceeded.  The additional berths is to allow those who book 3-4 in a cabin to have flexibility in cabin category.  Similarly, they will not sell a cruise to a 3rd or 4th person in a cabin, even if the ship is below capacity, if the muster station that cabin is assigned to is full. 

125%

But, regardless of whether you are talking about a lifeboat or a life raft, you are assigned to one or the other based on your cabin, so the differentiation between boats and rafts is irrelevant to this argument.

As always, thanks for the expertise.

[chengkp75]

7 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

A lot of people (in theory crew) might have to get into life rafts. I suspect a number would have to jump over the side to evacuate the ship within the required 30 minutes

And, this is one of the major misconceptions that people have about lifesaving equipment on cruise ships.  The requirement is not that every soul onboard must evacuate within 30 minutes.  First off, the "clock" on the evacuation does not start when the "passenger muster" signal (General Alarm) sounds, it starts when the Captain decides to send the word that the passengers should move from their muster stations to the boats. Secondly, when the passengers are ordered to evacuate the ship, the crew does not evacuate as well.  Only those crew (3 for the 150 person boats, 12 or so for the larger boats) assigned as boat crew will evacuate with the passengers.  The vast majority of the crew, including all the professional mariner officers, will remain on the ship, attempting to deal with the emergency.   It is only after all of the passengers are evacuated, will the Captain signal "abandon ship", when the crew will leave their emergency stations, and head to their abandon ship stations.

[BlerkOne]

Just now, chengkp75 said:

And, this is one of the major misconceptions that people have about lifesaving equipment on cruise ships.  The requirement is not that every soul onboard must evacuate within 30 minutes.  First off, the "clock" on the evacuation does not start when the "passenger muster" signal (General Alarm) sounds, it starts when the Captain decides to send the word that the passengers should move from their muster stations to the boats. Secondly, when the passengers are ordered to evacuate the ship, the crew does not evacuate as well.  Only those crew (3 for the 150 person boats, 12 or so for the larger boats) assigned as boat crew will evacuate with the passengers.  The vast majority of the crew, including all the professional mariner officers, will remain on the ship, attempting to deal with the emergency.   It is only after all of the passengers are evacuated, will the Captain signal "abandon ship", when the crew will leave their emergency stations, and head to their abandon ship stations.

How did that work for Concordia?

 

 

[BlerkOne]

19 minutes ago, Essiesmom said:

Some would board the rafts via an inflated slide.  I’ve seen a video of Captain Kate doing it on a Celebrity ship.  EM

 

[chengkp75]

14 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

How did that work for Concordia?

 

 

Without having signaled a passenger muster, and without issuing a command to evacuate the passengers, Schettino ordered "abandon ship" at 2254 hours.  This command released the crew who were supposed to guide the passengers to the muster stations, and to take the accurate muster accountability from those duties and sent them to their abandon ship stations. By 2338 hours, it is confirmed that a minimum of 90% of all souls onboard had been evacuated.  23 of 26 lifeboats were successfully launched.

Edited July 14 by chengkp75

[Elaine5715]

1 hour ago, Essiesmom said:

Some would board the rafts via an inflated slide.  I’ve seen a video of Captain Kate doing it on a Celebrity ship.  EM

Question is "Who takes Bug?"

[aborgman]

4 hours ago, 1025cruise said:

This is 100% wrong. There has to be enough life boat/raft space for 100% of the ship's complement.

 

 

International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea, Chapter III, Part B (passenger ships):

 

(i)  Provided that the Administration may permit the substitution of lifeboats by liferafts of the same total capacity so however that there shall never be less than sufficient lifeboats on each side of the ship to accommodate 37 1/2 per cent of all on board.

 

2x37 1/2% = 75%

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Without having signaled a passenger muster, and without issuing a command to evacuate the passengers, Schettino ordered "abandon ship" at 2254 hours.  This command released the crew who were supposed to guide the passengers to the muster stations, and to take the accurate muster accountability from those duties and sent them to their abandon ship stations. By 2338 hours, it is confirmed that a minimum of 90% of all souls onboard had been evacuated.  23 of 26 lifeboats were successfully launched.

There are conflicting reports and "There are no voice, VDR, recordings available from the bridge/emergency control center to verify anything reported later about the evacuation of the ship."