T&E Report on Cruise Ship Size and Environmental

[QuestionEverything]

Greetings everyone:

This is on the Canadian CTV national news site right now. 

FYI

https://www.ctvnews.ca/climate-and-environment/cruisezilla-passenger-ships-have-doubled-in-size-since-2000-environmental-group-warns-1.6995153

[ldubs]

Have heard similar before.  Not really unexpected news, IMO.    

[chengkp75]

I noted that T&E did not comment, or try to correct, the IMO's statement that total world shipping accounts for 5% of emissions, nor acknowledge that over 80% of the world's total economy travels by sea.  And, since cruise ships amount to 5% of world shipping, that means the cruise industry as a whole is responsible for one quarter of one percent of worldwide emissions.  Wonder what T&E are doing about the other 99.75% of emissions, especially from notoriously inefficient transportation industries like trucking.

[chengkp75]

Another fact that T&E doesn't trot out is that container ships, over the last 40 years, have increased their deadweight tonnage (the amount of cargo they can carry), from 11 million metric tons to 293 million metric tons, or a 26 fold increase.  Container ships have increased in size as well, seeing a 7 fold increase in size. There is a container ship launched every day somewhere in the world.

[clo]

14 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Another fact that T&E doesn't trot out is that container ships, over the last 40 years, have increased their deadweight tonnage (the amount of cargo they can carry), from 11 million metric tons to 293 million metric tons, or a 26 fold increase.  Container ships have increased in size as well, seeing a 7 fold increase in size. There is a container ship launched every day somewhere in the world.

And we just make the assumption that their environmental impact is and always will be HUGE.

[mom says]

Question everything may be a good motto. In this case, the article verges on click bait. I appreciate Chengkp75 filling in some of the more significant details.

[TheOldBear]

I recall Steve Payne saying that the QM2 is much more efficient than its predecessor, despite the much greater size of the ship.  The original Queen Mary's steam plant got about 12 feet to the gallon - the QM2 CODAG / electric plant gets 16 feet to the gallon. That's a 25% improvement 😉

 

[chengkp75]

13 minutes ago, TheOldBear said:

I recall Steve Payne saying that the QM2 is much more efficient than its predecessor, despite the much greater size of the ship.  The original Queen Mary's steam plant got about 12 feet to the gallon - the QM2 CODAG / electric plant gets 16 feet to the gallon. That's a 25% improvement 😉

 

Any internal combustion engine powered plant (and including gas turbines) is more efficient than a steam plant.  Steam plants lose about 30% of the fuel energy in condensing the steam back to water so it can be pumped back to the boiler.  This energy goes to the sea water.  This is why, in the wake of WW2, when nations were rebuilding their merchant navies, everyone quickly shifted to diesels over steam, because fuel was expensive and labor was cheap, while the US retained steam well into the 1970's because fuel was cheap and labor was expensive.

[ldubs]

20 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Another fact that T&E doesn't trot out is that container ships, over the last 40 years, have increased their deadweight tonnage (the amount of cargo they can carry), from 11 million metric tons to 293 million metric tons, or a 26 fold increase.  Container ships have increased in size as well, seeing a 7 fold increase in size. There is a container ship launched every day somewhere in the world.

 

Good point.  I have seen that addressed before by simply acknowledging shipping is essential while cruising isn't.   Wealthy folk on a cruise ship are simply easy targets.  

[chengkp75]

23 minutes ago, ldubs said:

Wealthy folk on a cruise ship are simply easy targets.

Bingo.  No one is saying anything about driving to parks and resorts in huge motorhomes.  Every spring and fall there is an odyssey north or south in Maine of campers and motorhomes.

[SelectSys]

These stories are in the news everyday.  Everyone can make up their own mind as to how they want to react to these stories.  I guess in the extreme one can decide not to travel and walk everywhere they want to go. 

 

My plan is to continue traveling on as before as long as the "billionaire class" continues to purchase superyachts and private aircraft while lecturing me about GHG.

 

Personally, I believe this types of stories in the limit are to start of a new taxation program that raise prices for travel.  Who is going to be most effected?  As always, it will be those with less money that will be forced into travelling less.

 

Here's another story promoted by the CBC -Heat Kills 175,000 Europeans per year.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/heat-deaths-europe-who-1.7283927  Do I really think the WHO study is credible or are they pushing an agenda?  Remember the saying attributed to Mark Twain - “There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics” 

 

If you are really interested in understanding how narratives are created and supported by analysis look at the following book. https://www.amazon.com/Damned-Lies-Statistics-Untangling-Politicians/dp/0520219783

 

"This accessible book provides an alternative to either naively accepting the statistics we hear or cynically assuming that all numbers are meaningless. It shows how anyone can become a more intelligent, critical, and empowered consumer of the statistics that inundate both the social sciences and our media-saturated lives."

 

 

 

[clo]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Bingo.  No one is saying anything about driving to parks and resorts in huge motorhomes.  Every spring and fall there is an odyssey north or south in Maine of campers and motorhomes.

We have a small (23') motorhome and frequently park with 'coaches' twice our size. And some I'm betting cost a million bucks. And I shudder to think what MPG they get. Can you tell which one is ours?

[ontheweb]

48 minutes ago, clo said:

We have a small (23') motorhome and frequently park with 'coaches' twice our size. And some I'm betting cost a million bucks. And I shudder to think what MPG they get. Can you tell which one is ours?

I'll take up the challenge. Yours is the 4th one if you start from the left.

 

Do I win a prize?

[clo]

1 minute ago, ontheweb said:

I'll take up the challenge. Yours is the 4th one if you start from the left.

 

Do I win a prize?

Maybe I can get you a stay in one of those "coaches." That's what they're called. Not ours.

[ontheweb]

Just now, clo said:

Maybe I can get you a stay in one of those "coaches." That's what they're called. Not ours.

I guess not enough room in yours for guests.

[clo]

Just now, ontheweb said:

I guess not enough room in yours for guests.

Well, the sofa open up and down if you're not very tall. We have what's called an "RV queen mattress." Not quite as big as a real queen. Big enough even with Hairy Red Dog but he mostly sleeps on pillows behind our heads. But sure, come on out!

[Airbear232]

On 8/13/2024 at 2:12 PM, SelectSys said:

These stories are in the news everyday.  Everyone can make up their own mind as to how they want to react to these stories.  I guess in the extreme one can decide not to travel and walk everywhere they want to go. 

 

My plan is to continue traveling on as before as long as the "billionaire class" continues to purchase superyachts and private aircraft while lecturing me about GHG.

 

Personally, I believe this types of stories in the limit are to start of a new taxation program that raise prices for travel.  Who is going to be most effected?  As always, it will be those with less money that will be forced into travelling less.

 

Here's another story promoted by the CBC -Heat Kills 175,000 Europeans per year.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/heat-deaths-europe-who-1.7283927  Do I really think the WHO study is credible or are they pushing an agenda?  Remember the saying attributed to Mark Twain - “There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics” 

 

If you are really interested in understanding how narratives are created and supported by analysis look at the following book. https://www.amazon.com/Damned-Lies-Statistics-Untangling-Politicians/dp/0520219783

 

"This accessible book provides an alternative to either naively accepting the statistics we hear or cynically assuming that all numbers are meaningless. It shows how anyone can become a more intelligent, critical, and empowered consumer of the statistics that inundate both the social sciences and our media-saturated lives."

 

 

 

The one thing is that there is an undeniable change in the weather, especially over the past 60 years.  It can be debated what the cause of this is, but it’s impossible to argue that there has been no change. 

[SelectSys]

1 hour ago, Airbear232 said:

The one thing is that there is an undeniable change in the weather, especially over the past 60 years.  It can be debated what the cause of this is, but it’s impossible to argue that there has been no change. 

The earth's climate, flora and fauna has continuously evolved since its formation 4.5 billion years ago.  Humans are almost certainly simply a short blip in the evolutionary timeline of our planet. 

 

As I said above, my plans are to continue to travel and take cruises as long as it remains possible for me to do so. 

[Airbear232]

7 minutes ago, SelectSys said:

 

As I said above, my plans are to continue to travel and take cruises as long as it remains possible for me to do so. 

Same with us