Still trying to understand why power strips would be banned...

[VentureMan_2000]

I've read a couple articles regarding another cruise line banning power strips.  None provided a reason why.

I was hoping that chengkp75 might be able to provide some insight.

[ldubs]

Did that cruise line ban all power strips or ones that have surge protection?      

[klfrodo]

Just now, ldubs said:

Did that cruise line ban all power strips or ones that have surge protection?      

Pretty much any and all that have multiple outlets even if only USB outlets.

[VentureMan_2000]

They clarified it.  No power strips what-so-ever if it contains an electrical outlet that can be plugged into.

However, it can be a power strip that only contains USB ports... so a power strip with only a USB box.

[mfs2k]

 

A fireman can likely answer. 

[Elaine5715]

As a former property manager, this was the norm 

[VentureMan_2000]

Elaine, Good point.

I was thinking a possible solution to this issue would be for the cruise line to provide a standardized power strip in each stateroom that is acceptable to the cruise line with perhaps 2 or 3 plug outlets (whatever meets the electrical standard for that room) and a few USB outlets.

[ldubs]

25 minutes ago, VentureMan_2000 said:

They clarified it.  No power strips what-so-ever if it contains an electrical outlet that can be plugged into.

However, it can be a power strip that only contains USB ports... so a power strip with only a USB box.

 

I read the OP as a cruise line other than Carnival has banned them.   I'm curious which cruise line?  

[DeniseTr]

RCL banned even multi plug extenders. 

There is a theory I've seen that their newest ships have power issues, not sure if it's true. 

I'd think if the multi plug extenders had issues, other lines would be banning them. 

 

As to the original question, this is what Sir Google told me: 'This is because on a cruise ship, both the "live" and "neutral" wires carry current, while a standard surge protector only breaks the circuit on the "live" wire.'

Edited Thursday at 05:12 PM by DeniseTr

[Charles4515]

37 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

I read the OP as a cruise line other than Carnival has banned them.   I'm curious which cruise line?  

Royal Caribbean has banned multiple AC outlets. Multi port USB chargers are not banned. 

[mfs2k]

47 minutes ago, VentureMan_2000 said:

Elaine, Good point.

I was thinking a possible solution to this issue would be for the cruise line to provide a standardized power strip in each stateroom that is acceptable to the cruise line with perhaps 2 or 3 plug outlets (whatever meets the electrical standard for that room) and a few USB outlets.

On my cruise on Legend a few weeks ago (recently drydocked for refurbishment) the lamps on either side of the bed had a regular outlet and 2 USB ports.  That was good enough for us to charge our devices.  There were other outlets and ports on the other side of the room.  I didn't need my multiport chargers. 

[adventuredancer]

3 minutes ago, mfs2k said:

On my cruise on Legend a few weeks ago (recently drydocked for refurbishment) the lamps on either side of the bed had a regular outlet and 2 USB ports.  That was good enough for us to charge our devices.  There were other outlets and ports on the other side of the room.  I didn't need my multiport chargers. 

but not every ship/stateroom has those. and what about people who need it for medical reasons (since i heard that RCL also banned extension cords)

[crzndeb]

18 minutes ago, adventuredancer said:

but not every ship/stateroom has those. and what about people who need it for medical reasons (since i heard that RCL also banned extension cords)

You can request an extension cord on Royal, just like you can on Carnival.

[adventuredancer]

Just now, crzndeb said:

You can request an extension cord on Royal, just like you can on Carnival.

but you have to hope that they still have some. which is why some people carry their own. and if you have 2 people needing them? no power strip wouldn't work

[ngrund]

48 minutes ago, adventuredancer said:

but not every ship/stateroom has those. and what about people who need it for medical reasons (since i heard that RCL also banned extension cords)

RCL has prohibited extension cords for some time now, if one is needed for a medical device (like a CPAP) you should submit the special needs form and one will be provided.

[shof515]

57 minutes ago, mfs2k said:

On my cruise on Legend a few weeks ago (recently drydocked for refurbishment) the lamps on either side of the bed had a regular outlet and 2 USB ports.  That was good enough for us to charge our devices.  There were other outlets and ports on the other side of the room.  I didn't need my multiport chargers. 

 

on my devices i had issues with these usb ports and other usb ports found on the wall or near the desk area. It is like these ports have the older USB spec or something causing slow charging. I can not get fast charging to work with these usb ports. i always need to bring my own charger 

[BlerkOne]

2 hours ago, VentureMan_2000 said:

Elaine, Good point.

I was thinking a possible solution to this issue would be for the cruise line to provide a standardized power strip in each stateroom that is acceptable to the cruise line with perhaps 2 or 3 plug outlets (whatever meets the electrical standard for that room) and a few USB outlets.

FTLOG, people steal the toilet paper. If you give people outlets, they will find a way to overload them.

[sparks1093]

3 hours ago, VentureMan_2000 said:

I've read a couple articles regarding another cruise line banning power strips.  None provided a reason why.

I was hoping that chengkp75 might be able to provide some insight.

He's probably tired of it and has posted many times in similar threads. Ships are wired differently then buildings are, it all comes down to that. As I understand it the problem is in the surge protector, not the power strip itself, so if one had a power strip that isn't protected it should be allowed (but still might be confiscated).

Edited Thursday at 07:15 PM by sparks1093

[ProgRockCruiser]

40 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

He's probably tired of it and has posted many times in similar threads. Ships are wired differently then buildings are, it all comes down to that. As I understand it the problem is in the surge protector, not the power strip itself, so if one had a power strip that isn't protected it should be allowed (but still might be confiscated).

 

2 hours ago, DeniseTr said:

'This is because on a cruise ship, both the "live" and "neutral" wires carry current, while a standard surge protector only breaks the circuit on the "live" wire.'

Yes, indeed that is the real issue with power strips - IIRC, it is a case that if they have surge protectors it can actually cause a fire under normal (non-surge) conditions, just due to typical voltage swings.

 

I guess RCL has taken the stance that too many power strips have built in surge protectors and it isn't always obvious in the labeling or design, so best to ban them all if you can't differentiate.

 

We have always brought a non-surge-protected power strip, but IIRC we didn't use it the last cruise or two, because there were plenty of regular outlets and we have reduced our quantity of devices needing to be plugged in: we used to bring 2 DSLR cameras, with re-chargable batteries, thusly needing the chargers.  Plus phones, and a notebook-size laptop to back up the photos.

 

Now it is just our phones - they've caught up with good DSLRs for most "everyday" photography, and are much more discreet...

[Charles4515]

3 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

We have always brought a non-surge-protected power strip, but IIRC we didn't use it the last cruise or two, because there were plenty of regular outlets and we have reduced our quantity of devices needing to be plugged in: we used to bring 2 DSLR cameras, with re-chargable batteries, thusly needing the chargers.  Plus phones, and a notebook-size laptop to back up the photos.

 

Also with a little planning all devices don't have to be charged simultaneously. You can also make use of the Euro 230 outlet with a euro plug adapter.

[chengkp75]

3 hours ago, VentureMan_2000 said:

I've read a couple articles regarding another cruise line banning power strips.  None provided a reason why.

I was hoping that chengkp75 might be able to provide some insight.

 

2 hours ago, VentureMan_2000 said:

Elaine, Good point.

I was thinking a possible solution to this issue would be for the cruise line to provide a standardized power strip in each stateroom that is acceptable to the cruise line with perhaps 2 or 3 plug outlets (whatever meets the electrical standard for that room) and a few USB outlets.

The problem is that while many want the power strip to provide outlets where they can plug several low wattage USB chargers in, that is not always the case, and people will plug in a couple of high wattage appliances.  While these appliances, even when plugged into the power strip do not pose any hazard, the problem comes from the fact that the circuit that powers the outlets in your cabin also power the outlets in one or two other cabins.  So, when a couple of cabins plug a couple of high wattage appliances into the outlet, and use them at the same time, the circuit breaker trips.  Then, the electrician has to be taken from whatever job he was doing, and go reset the breaker, wasting the company's money (wasted labor).  So, the cruise line purposely limits the number of outlets to limit the number of things that can be plugged in at one time, and that was designed into the cabin in the first place, so giving the passengers more outlets (an "approved" power strip), would just lead back to the same problem.

 

2 hours ago, DeniseTr said:

There is a theory I've seen that their newest ships have power issues, not sure if it's true. 

Anyone who thinks that a ship that can generate 90 million watts of power (90 Mw) is having a problem with some outlet circuits (2400 watts maximum for a 20 amp circuit), is a candidate for the bridge I'm selling.

 

2 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

Multi port USB chargers are not banned. 

The largest multi-port USB charger I've seen is 200 watts, which is only about 1.5 amps input, and when even one of these in each cabin are charging 8 devices, that only draws 4.5 amps, or about 20% of the capacity of the 20 amp circuit.  This is why multi-ports, that don't have any power outlets in them, are allowed, while anything with multiple 120v outlets are not.

 

2 hours ago, DeniseTr said:

As to the original question, this is what Sir Google told me: 'This is because on a cruise ship, both the "live" and "neutral" wires carry current, while a standard surge protector only breaks the circuit on the "live" wire.'

And this is why you need to treat google with a few grains of salt.  Both wires in every circuit, whether on ship or land, carry current.  It is true that consumer grade US power strips only open the "hot" wire (because the manufacturer assumes the power strip is used on land), and on a ship, the "neutral" wire is at a higher voltage than the ground, which can lead to shock hazard, the circuit breaker for the ship's circuit opens both legs if there is a serious power fault.  And, these comments apply to the circuit breaker on a power strip (that little lighted "on/off" switch).  A surge protector doesn't "break" any circuit, it opens a circuit from the "hot" lead to the ground lead to take the unexpected voltage to ground.  Surge protectors deal with voltage, while circuit breakers deal with current.

 

5 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

Yes, indeed that is the real issue with power strips - IIRC, it is a case that if they have surge protectors it can actually cause a fire under normal (non-surge) conditions, just due to typical voltage swings.

Nope.  That is a common misconception from the USCG Safety Notice that conflates the problems of a surge protector on a ship with a consumer power strip that only opens one leg.  As I said above, a surge protector doesn't break any circuit, it merely creates a new path from "hot" to ground.  Surge protectors typically have the ability to dump both the "hot" leg and the "neutral" leg to ground when the voltage surges.  The main problem with surge protectors on ships is that the surge circuitry is rated for a given voltage (like 120v), where the semi-conductors can handle small voltage fluctuations for ever without damage, while a large fluctuation (like a lightning strike on land) will activate the surge protection, but is so damaged it will never work again.  On land, the power grid is so large that fluctuations are very small, but on a ship, the power needed for propulsion and hotel is so close to the amount that can be generated, that large, sudden demands can cause larger voltage swings than on land, and these voltage swings start to degrade the surge protector, and over time they will fail, and when they fail, they go into what is called "thermal runaway", where they overheat and cause the plastic case to melt and catch fire.

[ProgRockCruiser]

17 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

Yes, indeed that is the real issue with power strips - IIRC, it is a case that if they have surge protectors it can actually cause a fire under normal (non-surge) conditions, just due to typical voltage swings.

 

4 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Nope.  That is a common misconception from the USCG Safety Notice that conflates the problems of a surge protector on a ship with a consumer power strip that only opens one leg.

 

4 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

On land, the power grid is so large that fluctuations are very small, but on a ship, the power needed for propulsion and hotel is so close to the amount that can be generated, that large, sudden demands can cause larger voltage swings than on land, and these voltage swings start to degrade the surge protector, and over time they will fail, and when they fail, they go into what is called "thermal runaway", where they overheat and cause the plastic case to melt and catch fire.

OK, help me out.  I parse your last section there that I quoted to mean essentially what I wrote by highlighting the relevant bits by underlining:

 

voltage swings degrade the surge protector which causes a fire.

 

If that isn't what you are saying, then please help clarify.

[May1cruiser]

Bottom line, surge protectors do have a life span. They can fail and will start a fire. Had a good friend almost loose their entire house. I have removed all surge protectors from our home and know the "why" cruise lines do not allow. 

[chengkp75]

19 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

 

 

OK, help me out.  I parse your last section there that I quoted to mean essentially what I wrote by highlighting the relevant bits by underlining:

 

voltage swings degrade the surge protector which causes a fire.

 

If that isn't what you are saying, then please help clarify.

Well, yes, but what I was saying is that you were responding to a post that talked about the circuit breaker on the power strip being a hazard, and saying that this was the "real issue" with power strips.  Even a non-surge protected US consumer power strip, in my opinion, is a (albeit small) hazard on a ship because of the above mentioned circuit breaker problem.  The ship's crew will use a European plugged, 220v power strip, because the breaker opens both legs upon tripping.

[chengkp75]

Just now, May1cruiser said:

Bottom line, surge protectors do have a life span. They can fail and will start a fire. Had a good friend almost loose their entire house. I have removed all surge protectors from our home and know the "why" cruise lines do not allow. 

While what you say is true, I would not recommend removing all surge protectors from your house, unless you install a "whole house" surge protector, as these are commercial rather than consumer items, and the ratings are higher.