Impact of new luxury ships?

[Travelcat2]

And yet there are class systems on almost every luxury line whether they are so designated or not. Book a top suite and see if you don't get more access to specialty restaurants than someone on the lowest category.

 

We have been on every category on a Regent ship and have not noticed a class system. We have been able to get extra dining reservations and/or been turned down despite the suite we are in (note: although Regent is a sister to Oceania, this is not true on Oceania where upper suites can dine in a specialty restaurant every night). Once we walk out of the door of our suite, we are treated the same, EXCEPT, that we are known by a lot of the crew and do have them coming to our table, etc. which makes it appear that we are getting special treatment. I would be surprised if this were not true on all cruise lines.

 

NOTE: Regent did implement a "Concierge" program a few years ago that, IMO, is slight form of a class system. Concierge level and above passengers can book excursions and dining reservations before the other levels. I have always believed in the "first come, first served" system so this was extremely upsetting at the time.

[wripro]

TC2,

 

Are you seriously going to pretend that those who book that 5000 sq ft. suite on Regent Explorer (or however large it is) are not going to get better treatment than those who book the falsely named lowest end suites?

[Travelcat2]

TC2,

 

Are you seriously going to pretend that those who book that 5000 sq ft. suite on Regent Explorer (or however large it is) are not going to get better treatment than those who book the falsely named lowest end suites?

 

Well, it is listed in their advertisements that people that book the Explorer suite (approximately $10,000/night for two people) get a car included for their excursions, included spa treatments inside of their suite (the 3rd bathroom is built to accommodate this) and other very special benefits. I have discussed the "class" system with Regent management when the dreaded Concierge program went into effect. The one thing we agreed on was that benefits received inside of the suite or benefits that are invisible to other passengers is not a problem. Unfortunately this includes being able to make reservations before others (as mentioned previously).

 

What I have a problem with is areas of a ship where some passengers cannot access. For instance, the Concierge and Executive Lounges on Oceania ships. People walk by the glass doors peering inside but are denied access. Interestingly, we were able to access the Executive Lounge but were not able to access the Concierge Lounge (we were in a Vista Suite - the second largest on the ship. We wanted to see what the difference in the lounges were.) It also bothered me that my room keycard indicates the level of suite we are in. This could cause bar staff, for instance, to treat certain passengers better than others (just my opinion).

 

On Regent (and I believe it is the same on Silversea), our keycard color indicates our loyalty level and has our names -- nothing else. Obviously there is imbedded information on the card which is generally only used when boarding or disembarking the ship.

 

So, in a sentence, I'm not trying to tell you that people in other suites do not get extra benefits - just not outside of the suite.

[Keith1010]

TC, why do they go with different color cards to reflect loyalty. Don't you only use the cards to get on and off the ship and into your room. Just wondering why they would even do that.

 

Keith

[TrulyBlonde]

Our last cruise on O, we were in a Vista Suite. I just so happened to be on another floor walking by myself when a young man was vacuuming and stopped and addressed me by name. I thought it was very nice but did not remember seeing him anywhere. I then asked him, how he knew my name and he replied that they are provided that info at the start of the cruise. It was clearly based on the fact that we were in the suite and not a random cabin.

Yes, I do believe when you pay more the cruise line recognizes it.

Seriously, TC2, when you pay for Business Class on an airline, do you expect the same tray of food etc. as Coach class? I am certain you do not turn it down and ask for Coach bag of pretzels and nuts.

[fizzy]

If you pay more you get more and that is how it should be. Air travel IS a perfect analogy.I also remember our first Radisson Navigator cruise and upon entering the cabin, we said "this is REALLY REALLY nice! And then we said..."what's up calling this a suite?"

As an aside, now that Oceania and Azamara seem to be included in the luxury category pretty much wherever you look,,,,,people who find the word "luxury" important are able to sail a luxury ship in a nice but tiny inside cabin. I think that's pretty smart marketing! There is nothing wrong with that.

[sullaRaffaello]

A reverting to the pre- World War 2 concept of classes of passengers within clearly defined areas of the ship, such as Cunard's Grills, holds no appeal for me.

 

The classes on transatlantic liners went on long past WWII. The Italian and French lines had it right until those lines went out in the 70s. I believe the QE2 had two classes until sometime in the 90s.

[calliopecruiser]

If you pay more you get more and that is how it should be. Air travel IS a perfect analogy.

 

Air travel is a perfect analogy for that - you pay more and you get more. That is NOT the same as different classes. Different classes is about much more than just buying better accommodation on a ship or a different meal on an airline.

 

are able to sail a luxury ship in a nice but tiny inside cabin

 

Sure, if they believe that those are luxury ships with luxury amenities and service.....but having a company say their product is "luxury" doesn't make it so. I have no idea if they are luxury lines or not, as I haven't sailed with them, but since there are few standards as to what the term means, it's pretty meaningless. To me, I think that having excellent service and having very few "extras" (in price and intent) is part of what luxury is -- but there's no reason anyone has to accept my definition. either. If you do want an "outside" opinion, you have to look at non-cruise organizations (i.e. travel books, business articles, etc).

[English Voyager]

Other than increased size, and appointment, of higher category suites one would expect them to attract additional benefits commensurate with escalating cost.

 

Of far more importance to me is the ethos of the Luxury Cruise Line in respect of the ship as an overall entity.

 

Mention has been made of the new Regent Seven Seas Explorer.

 

RSS Explorer:

 

54000 gross tons.

 

738 guests.

 

Entry level suites: 219 sq. ft plus 88 sq. ft veranda.

 

 

 

Hapag-Lloyd Europa 2:

 

42850 gross tons

 

516 guests

 

Entry level suites:301 sq. ft plus 75 sq. ft veranda.

 

 

I don't know if guests in the higher category suites on either ship have priority reservations for the Speciality Restaurants, but even if they have, the impact upon guests in lower category suites will be dependent on the total capacity of said Restaurants.

 

On the Europa 2, for dinner,the four Speciality Restaurants can accommodate a total of 210 guests.

 

Perhaps the reason why I , as the occupant of an entry level suite,experienced no problem is obtaining a reservation of my choice.

[LHT28]

I have not been on a luxury ship but I do not think Oceania or Azamara fit in that category

It is marketing by some agencies

 

Oceania has some nice touches .......luxury not sure ???

 

What they have works for us

 

YMMV

[English Voyager]

I have not been on a luxury ship but I do not think Oceania or Azamara fit in that category

It is marketing by some agencies

 

On one of our TV channels, a major UK Cruise Agent, which has an hour long twice weekly show, always describes Holland America as a 6 star Cruise Line.

[LHT28]

On one of our TV channels, a major UK Cruise Agent, which has an hour long twice weekly show, always describes Holland America as a 6 star Cruise Line.

I think that is stretching the truth a bit :D

[TrulyBlonde]

My Vista Suite on O was luxurious enough for me. I just recently booked a cruise on Crystal and it will be interesting to see how much different it will be.

Luxury is defined in many different ways and depends what each of us needs. I do not understand how a Suite (300 sq ft example) can be classified as a Suite?

The only official luxury cruise I have been on is SeaDream ( I think they are considered luxury?) Anyway, O is better and I am very excited about finally getting around to cruising on Crystal.

[wripro]

Well, it is listed in their advertisements that people that book the Explorer suite (approximately $10,000/night for two people) get a car included for their excursions, included spa treatments inside of their suite (the 3rd bathroom is built to accommodate this) and other very special benefits. I have discussed the "class" system with Regent management when the dreaded Concierge program went into effect. The one thing we agreed on was that benefits received inside of the suite or benefits that are invisible to other passengers is not a problem. Unfortunately this includes being able to make reservations before others (as mentioned previously).

 

What I have a problem with is areas of a ship where some passengers cannot access. For instance, the Concierge and Executive Lounges on Oceania ships. People walk by the glass doors peering inside but are denied access. Interestingly, we were able to access the Executive Lounge but were not able to access the Concierge Lounge (we were in a Vista Suite - the second largest on the ship. We wanted to see what the difference in the lounges were.) It also bothered me that my room keycard indicates the level of suite we are in. This could cause bar staff, for instance, to treat certain passengers better than others (just my opinion).

 

On Regent (and I believe it is the same on Silversea), our keycard color indicates our loyalty level and has our names -- nothing else. Obviously there is imbedded information on the card which is generally only used when boarding or disembarking the ship.

 

So, in a sentence, I'm not trying to tell you that people in other suites do not get extra benefits - just not outside of the suite.

 

 

I completely disagree. NO one can tell me that those in an Explorer suite will not get priority to reservations in the specialty restaurants.

[Floridiana]

The classes on transatlantic liners went on long past WWII. The Italian and French lines had it right until those lines went out in the 70s. I believe the QE2 had two classes until sometime in the 90s.

 

In the fifties, my husband travelled on the QE2. He remembers that he was not allowed to enter certain corridors and restaurants, totally off limits to lower class passengers.

 

On the lines I have travelled, a passenger in a cheaper cabin can pay onboard to go to specialty restaurants, to the spa pool and other more privileged parts of a ship. Maybe NCL with the Haven and Celebrity with the Aqua Class do have a strict class system based on the cabin category, but hotels have executive floors and lounges, too.

[Travelcat2]

Keith: I honestly have no idea why the keycards are different colors for different loyalty levels. The only thought I have is that it may make the passenger feel better as they rise to a higher level. Just a guess.

 

In terms of comparing an airline with a cruise (or a hotel) - sorry -- it doesn't work for me. You are on an airplane in a confined space for several hours - only 1 or 2 toilet facilities in the upper levels. On a cruise ship, you are with passengers that have booked all categories 24/7. You dine with them - have drinks with them, etc. The exception is cruise lines with areas where only a certain level of passenger may enter.

 

English Voyager - you have brought up some good points. We are sailing on the Explorer next year and were surprised to learn of the smaller suites. Upon further investigation, there has been an outcry for years to have lower priced suites for passengers sailing by themselves. The single supplement on Regent is typically very high which makes it unaffordable for singles. In terms of more benefits for higher costs - luxury cruise lines definitely have that but they are provided inside of the suite. So, when you are having drinks or dinner with someone, you have no idea if they are in the largest or smallest suite since everyone is basically treated the same.

 

sullaRaffaello: Definitely agree with you. My DH came to the U.S. on a Cunard ship (wasn't owned by Cunard at the time) in was in what he considers "steerage". It was horrible. However, some upper class passengers went downstairs to party with them since they were having way more fun that upstairs:) While Cunard remains class oriented, it would be a shame for cruise lines to go back to the WWII days.

 

My "take" on luxury cruise lines suites is easier to understand when you look at staterooms on most non-luxury cruise lines. Suites have a separation (a curtain in lower categories) that separates the bedroom from the living room. As the four major luxury cruise lines (Crystal, Regent, Seabourn and Silversea build their new ships, they pretty much are all balcony. So, on Regent - even their current ships - the Mariner, Voyager and upcoming Explorer are all balcony. Their oldest and smallest ship, the Navigator has some suites (301 square feet) without a balcony.

 

Unfortunately, it is difficult for everyone to agree on this - just as it is for TA's. Everyone has their own opinion and has a right to it. My experience is only on two luxury cruise lines and Oceania. The difference between the "feeling" on Oceania and Regent are completely different - despite the fact that they are owned by the same company. Oceania's Riviera and Marina have the most beautiful upper suites we have ever seen (or stayed in). However, even with the beauty of the suites and wonderful service, we continue to prefer Regent.

 

Since this is a thread about the impact of new luxury ships.........., I won't delve into airplanes and suites any further. Since I made an earlier post I realized that several "new"* ships have entered the market in the past three years and I see no real effect other than Silversea and Seabourn are sailing larger and more beautiful ships.

 

 

*"New" to me includes refurbished ships such as the expedition ships added to Silversea's fleet.

Edited August 26, 2015 by Travelcat2

[Keith1010]

Thanks TC.

 

I will be on Silversea for one short voyage in January so now I'll have to look at the color of my card. Since this will only be our second Silversea Cruise I'm thinking it will be white.

 

Keith

[gdlamberth]

I completely disagree. NO one can tell me that those in an Explorer suite will not get priority to reservations in the specialty restaurants.

 

Reminds me of the saw that says:

 

"You can always tell a fighter pilot...you just can't tell 'em much!"

 

Wripro, I apologize, but I worked with fighter pilots way too long not to have a knee jerk reaction to the phrase, "No one can tell me..." Also, while I tend to think you might be correct, I have no idea of what reality is on various ships. That said, the absolute worse service and treatment we've ever had on a "luxury" cruise, was on Regent AFTER we hit the Platinum Level:eek:.

 

Greg

[English Voyager]

English Voyager - you have brought up some good points. We are sailing on the Explorer next year and were surprised to learn of the smaller suites. Upon further investigation, there has been an outcry for years to have lower priced suites for passengers sailing by themselves. The single supplement on Regent is typically very high which makes it unaffordable for singles. In terms of more benefits for higher costs - luxury cruise lines definitely have that but they are provided inside of the suite. So, when you are having drinks or dinner with someone, you have no idea if they are in the largest or smallest suite since everyone is basically treated the same.

 

The 219 sq. ft suites are designed, and equipped, for double occupancy.

 

A by product of their small size may be cheaper entry level fares, but the main advantage is to Regent in that it allows them to accommodate a greater number of passengers for the size of the ship.

 

This would have an adverse impact on the Passenger Space Ratio.

 

I agree that on a luxury line, without defined areas of demarcation, in common public areas egalitarianism is alive and well.

[TrulyBlonde]

The 219 sq. ft suites are designed, and equipped, for double occupancy.

 

A by product of their small size may be cheaper entry level fares, but the main advantage is to Regent in that it allows them to accommodate a greater number of passengers for the size of the ship.

 

This would have an adverse impact on the Passenger Space Ratio.

 

I agree that on a luxury line, without defined areas of demarcation, in common public areas egalitarianism is alive and well.

 

Great marketing by Regent for calling 219 sq. ft. cabins "Suites". That word seems to be so important to people in their pursuit of luxury. I agree with Octoberkat when she states she stays in a "real suite". She understands it.

[Travelcat2]

The 219 sq. ft suites are designed, and equipped, for double occupancy.

 

A by product of their small size may be cheaper entry level fares, but the main advantage is to Regent in that it allows them to accommodate a greater number of passengers for the size of the ship.

 

This would have an adverse impact on the Passenger Space Ratio.

 

I agree that on a luxury line, without defined areas of demarcation, in common public areas egalitarianism is alive and well.

 

Regent's advertising states that the Passenger Space Ratio is greater than on any other ship (have not verified this).

 

In terms of "suites", it is whatever you think it is or want it to be. IMO, arguing about it is not productive.

[TrulyBlonde]

Regent's advertising states that the Passenger Space Ratio is greater than on any other ship (have not verified this).

 

In terms of "suites", it is whatever you think it is or want it to be. IMO, arguing about it is not productive.

 

Agree..but is it rather funny the ways in which cruise lines market. BTW..wanted to thank you again TC2 re: Disney. My Grandson is turning 5 this Spring and when his Mommy asked him what he wanted for his birthday he said" I want to go on a Disney cruise". Gramie took care of it again and the family can't wait for Spring.

He is going to be 5 and already will have 2 cruises under his belt. It must be genetic like his Gramie who loves to cruise. Thanks again for the referral. Sorry for the off topic.

[Travelcat2]

Agree..but is it rather funny the ways in which cruise lines market. BTW..wanted to thank you again TC2 re: Disney. My Grandson is turning 5 this Spring and when his Mommy asked him what he wanted for his birthday he said" I want to go on a Disney cruise". Gramie took care of it again and the family can't wait for Spring.

He is going to be 5 and already will have 2 cruises under his belt. It must be genetic like his Gramie who loves to cruise. Thanks again for the referral. Sorry for the off topic.

 

Happy to hear that it was a good experience. He obviously takes after you:)

[TrulyBlonde]

Now, don't make me nervous;-)...I just booked my 1st Crystal cruise on Serenity and it was narrowed down between Seabourn and Crystal and the itinerary won on Crystal.

I am not sailing in a Suite because it is more port intensive and I prefer Suites when we have more sea days on a sailing.

It will be my 1st true entry into Luxury cruising except for (Seadream??) as I typically sail on O. Timing and itinerary are what I need 1st when I cruise and I sort it out from there.

I had read that Crystal ships were very well maintained " rust buckets Yikes!"

I assume you were teasing :)

[Keith1010]

Now, don't make me nervous;-)...I just booked my 1st Crystal cruise on Serenity and it was narrowed down between Seabourn and Crystal and the itinerary won on Crystal.

I am not sailing in a Suite because it is more port intensive and I prefer Suites when we have more sea days on a sailing.

It will be my 1st true entry into Luxury cruising except for (Seadream??) as I typically sail on O. Timing and itinerary are what I need 1st when I cruise and I sort it out from there.

I had read that Crystal ships were very well maintained " rust buckets Yikes!"

I assume you were teasing :)

 

I am sure that David was kidding and you have nothing to worry about.. Crystal ships are very well maintained. I have sailed on several different luxury lines and cruise lines and they maintain their ships better than any other we have sailed.

 

I am a believer to let the itinerary be the decider when choosing a new cruise line to try.

 

If you are like us, you will love the experience.

 

Keith

Edited August 27, 2015 by Keith1010