Interesting article

[cruise kitty]

Very interesting article in NY times, including Michael Bayley quotes (yes, I know he's over at Royal now) :)

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/24/business/economy/velvet-rope-economy.html?_r=0

[frteach]

Thanks for the reference to this article. It certainly does seem to verify something that many long time cruisers can attest to: that the perks and privileges available to the group of passengers that are willing to pay for them are increasing in number. I have only been cruising since 2009, but I am concerned to see a large section of the MDR with lots of window seating set apart and reserved for suite passengers, for instance. The article does suggest that this is only the beginning of the "us" and "them" mentality. I don't really view this as a good trend for the travel industry.

[Silvery Seas Cruiser]

Fascinating article. I have been wondering why the cruise lines are increasingly differentiating services offered to high end passengers and services to the rest (such as myself, by the way.) As one who grew up in the shadow of Palm Beach, I knew full well the wealthy always had a lot more privileges than those with lesser financial endowments. Somehow, though, cruiseships seem like a very small confined area in which to be constantly bumping up against such stark differences for the duration of a week or two of cruising.

 

I started cruising before those differences became so obvious. it has just become much clearer in the last five or six years as Royal Caribbean and Celebrity give over more and more ship space to the so called "One Percenters."

 

I do sometimes ask why these folks don't choose to cruise on completely separate ships, exclusively for the wealthy. That would be even more exclusive than NCL's hidden Haven. Crystal comes closest to mind, but the Caribbean and Southern Europe are full of fabulous yachts that can be chartered with absolute privacy and exclusivity. The article does say, however, that Celebrity, Royal and NCL have no difficulty selling out their finest suites, so there is no easy answer to my question.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Gangway Style

[jayoldschool]

On the flip side of the coin, those passengers that pay top dollar keep prices really low for those that are at the lower levels. What would you rather have, higher overall prices, or a system where the few subsidize many (and get privileges for their investment)?

[Silvery Seas Cruiser]

On the flip side of the coin, those passengers that pay top dollar keep prices really low for those that are at the lower levels. What would you rather have, higher overall prices, or a system where the few subsidize many (and get privileges for their investment)?

 

Is that correct? I'd be curious to know. It seems to me it might be the other way around. All of the hoi poloi fill up and pay for cheap cabins so the wealthier passengers can have a few incredibly fabuolus suites and eat in prime restaurants while the hoi poloi eat the lesser quality meals.

 

I'm sure the cruiselines won't share their figures but I do have to wonder who is subsidizing who. The lower paying passengers are in much larger numbers. There's another thing too. I pay less for a cabin, for example, but cruise five or six weeks a year. How does it compare to a one-time cruiser in a suite?

Edited April 24, 2016 by Gangway Style

[Rob the Cruiser]

Fascinating article. I have been wondering why the cruise lines are increasingly differentiating services offered to high end passengers and services to the rest (such as myself, by the way.) As one who grew up in the shadow of Palm Beach, I knew full well the wealthy always had a lot more privileges than those with lesser financial endowments. Somehow, though, cruiseships seem like a very small confined area in which to be constantly bumping up against such stark differences for the duration of a week or two of cruising.

 

I started cruising before those differences became so obvious. it has just become much clearer in the last five or six years as Royal Caribbean and Celebrity give over more and more ship space to the so called "One Percenters."

 

I do sometimes ask why these folks don't choose to cruise on completely separate ships, exclusively for the wealthy. That would be even more exclusive than NCL's hidden Haven. Crystal comes closest to mind, but the Caribbean and Southern Europe are full of fabulous yachts that can be chartered with absolute privacy and exclusivity. The article does say, however, that Celebrity, Royal and NCL have no difficulty selling out their finest suites, so there is no easy answer to my question.

 

Royal and Celebrity have no idea which passengers are "one percenters". They know that that the passenger's credit card was approved the amount of the charge.

[richstowe]

Very interesting . The quote that stood out was from Michael Bayley, president of Royal Caribbean. “I think society is prepared to accept that if you pay more for certain elements, then you deserve them.” Hmmm - deserve them ? How about if you pay more ... then you get more. I believe a major problem with today's society is all the things we believe that we deserve .

On the flip side of the coin, those passengers that pay top dollar keep prices really low for those that are at the lower levels. What would you rather have, higher overall prices, or a system where the few subsidize many (and get privileges for their investment)?

Frankly I'm with Gangway Style . Perhaps on NCL's Haven there are no more discounted upsells but I doubt it . To use the example of first class on airlines , I am convince they do not make any more for these seats . So often these seats are empty or filled with those who have been bumped up . With much lower seating density , much better amenities and more staff , these premium seats may be less profitable for the airlines . I'm not convinced it is oh so different for the cruise lines .

[russg140]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/24/business/economy/velvet-rope-economy.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

 

This is a great article that talks about changes in the cruise industry, focusing on cruise lines that reward their highest paying customers with added perks/benefits including the "ship within a ship" concept. What's interesting to note is that Richard Fain, CEO of RCCI, dismisses the concept and says that it is not "Royal Caribbean's way". Instead RCCL keeps coming up with new giimmicks - the newest is the Royal Genie. So I don't expect to see the new Edge ships offering much. RCCI/Celebrity are moving in the wrong direction and are risking losing their high ticket customers. For those of your looking out for the upgrade fairy - be patient. She won't be long.

[SheriffJoe]

Very interesting . The quote that stood out was from Michael Bayley, president of Royal Caribbean. “I think society is prepared to accept that if you pay more for certain elements, then you deserve them.” Hmmm - deserve them ? How about if you pay more ... then you get more. I believe a major problem with today's society is all the things we believe that we deserve .

Frankly I'm with Gangway Style . Perhaps on NCL's Haven there are no more discounted upsells but I doubt it . To use the example of first class on airlines , I am convince they do not make any more for these seats . So often these seats are empty or filled with those who have been bumped up . With much lower seating density , much better amenities and more staff , these premium seats may be less profitable for the airlines . I'm not convinced it is oh so different for the cruise lines .

 

So you REALLY doubt cruise lines don't make more profit on the square footage and amenities provided to suite guests? Last I checked these are for profit companies and if they weren't maximizing profits from suites there would be no suites......and BTW 1 % ers ARE NOT sailing in suites on X or an other mainstream line its more like upper 20 % ers in them....

[Host Jazzbeau]

I disagree with your premise, russg140. Norwegian suite passengers need a gated community like The Haven to "escape" [pun intended] the Hairy Legs Contests and constant selling and yelling. Celebrity has provided a classier experience throughout the ship. Unless the push to "modern luxury" takes them down to NCL's level, their present tiered-amenities approach seems just right to me. Low prices for regular cabins and the regular MDR; a little pampering in Concierge; a better restaurant in AquaClass; and more space plus an even better restaurant for Suites -- but everybody shares the same public spaces. The concept is very workable, as long as Celebrity figures out the right "tone" (or mix of different tones in different areas) for those public spaces.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Host Jazzbeau

[Cruise Raider]

I am one of the ordinary passengers and never felt like I was traveling in anything other than 1st class while sailing on Celebrity. It isn't much of a surprise to anyone that those that have money are able to purchase more luxurious accommodations. No envy here....I am happy even when in my inside cabin.

[hcat]

I disagree with your premise, russg140. Norwegian suite passengers need a gated community like The Haven to "escape" [pun intended] the Hairy Legs Contests and constant selling and yelling. Celebrity has provided a classier experience throughout the ship. Unless the push to "modern luxury" takes them down to NCL's level, their present tiered-amenities approach seems just right to me. Low prices for regular cabins and the regular MDR; a little pampering in Concierge; a better restaurant in AquaClass; and more space plus an even better restaurant for Suites -- but everybody shares the same public spaces. The concept is very workable, as long as Celebrity figures out the right "tone" (or mix of different tones in different areas) for those public spaces.

 

I agree. They have a nice variety of categories...choices atdiff price points, yet everyone shares most of the ship....That's the preferred approach for us...

 

We are AQ cruisers..but we do miss the daily bottled water and upgraded towels..two great AQ perks..

Edited April 25, 2016 by Host Jazzbeau

[Host Jazzbeau]

I agree. They have a nice variety of categories...choices atdiff price points, yet everyone shares most of the ship....That's the preferred approach for us...

 

We are AQ cruisers..but we do miss the daily bottled water and upgraded towels..two great AQ perks..

 

My hope is that as the economy has bottomed out cruise prices will firm [i know, be careful what you wish for!] and the cruise lines will be able to stop cutting cutting cutting.

[Lastdance]

I enjoyed reading the article; thanks for sharing!:cool:

 

Sometimes it seems like the Titanic all over again...Remember too that history does repeat itself. Celebrity is always going to go where the money flows, as they are in this for profit and the bottom line. I have to work a little more and harder to be able to afford a suite, but that is definitely my choice. I have a travel fund and feel that experiences and of course health are my top priorities in life. Furthermore, I know I am rich in many ways that don't include $$$$. I do have several friends who have left Crystal for Celebrity because they got tired of the pretense...at least that is what they shared with me. The pendulum is always swinging back and forth, and the rich keep getting richer causing disparity in all wakes of life. People can only handle things for so long until they revolt like our present election candidates. However, that is just my opinion, so no flames please!

Edited April 24, 2016 by Lastdance

[Bo1953]

I am one of the ordinary passengers and never felt like I was traveling in anything other than 1st class while sailing on Celebrity. It isn't much of a surprise to anyone that those that have money are able to purchase more luxurious accommodations. No envy here....I am happy even when in my inside cabin.

 

Rated: 1+

[suzeqvhf]

I have worked for at least 10 "one percenters"in NYC for the past 25 years and none would be caught dead on any mainstream cruise ship- no matter how exclusive the accommodations.

The vacations they take are beyond what most on this site can imagine- I have participated in some.

When I go on vacation- a cruise more often than not- they give a shrug and say "have fun". Obviously can't relate to my wanting to be catered to the way they are on a daily basis for a couple of weeks a year.

[4774Papa]

Article sounds like it was written by a Marxist.

[phoenix_dream]

On the flip side of the coin, those passengers that pay top dollar keep prices really low for those that are at the lower levels. What would you rather have, higher overall prices, or a system where the few subsidize many (and get privileges for their investment)?

Say what?!?!?! In what fantasy land are prices being kept 'really low'??? Prices on my sailings the last couple of years have increased substantially for all but possibly inside cabins, even with consideration of the 'free' perks. I wish what you are saying was true, but my experience says the opposite.

[greydog]

Fascinating article. I have been wondering why the cruise lines are increasingly differentiating services offered to high end passengers and services to the rest (such as myself, by the way.)

 

I do sometimes ask why these folks don't choose to cruise on completely separate ships, exclusively for the wealthy. That would be even more exclusive than NCL's hidden Haven. Crystal comes closest to mind, but the Caribbean and Southern Europe are full of fabulous yachts that can be chartered with absolute privacy and exclusivity. The article does say, however, that Celebrity, Royal and NCL have no difficulty selling out their finest suites, so there is no easy answer to my question.

 

Family groups or social groups travel together and some want suite status while others on trip want more affordable, e.g. separate (less expensive) cabins for mid-age kids.

 

Some cruisers want affordable cabins to go 2-3 trips a year while others do 1 cruise every 2-3 years and splurge on high end.

[justcrusn]

Say what?!?!?! In what fantasy land are prices being kept 'really low'??? Prices on my sailings the last couple of years have increased substantially for all but possibly inside cabins, even with consideration of the 'free' perks. I wish what you are saying was true, but my experience says the opposite.

 

Perhaps look at different sailings then?

On more than one recent TA balconies on two week cruises were as low as $599 per person.

Sometimes LESS than inside or ocean view prices

[PelicanLvr]

BTW, no one mentioned yet that the article NOT hidden in an obscure section of the paper.....

 

It was TOP of the Front Page of this Sunday's New York Times.

[SargassoPirate]

I subscribe to the tightwad model of cruising and don't worry about what those who pay for the exclusive extras are getting because I figure they are helping subsidize the cost of my cruise. As long as I have a good travelling companion - She Who Must Be Obeyed - we can have a good cruise on just about any ship. (well we did make a mistake and booked a cruise on the NCL Epic, but that's another story) After all, a so-so day at sea is better that a good day at the office.

 

As far as income inequality, there will always be income inequality. If you don't like how your income compares to others, put some hustle in your bustle, some pep in your step, and get out there and make some more money. If that's important to you. Me? I prefer to live slightly below my means and enjoy each day for the gift that it is. You never see a U-Haul truck following a hearse. ;)

[JulesAS]

I subscribe to the tightwad model of cruising and don't worry about what those who pay for the exclusive extras are getting because I figure they are helping subsidize the cost of my cruise. As long as I have a good travelling companion - She Who Must Be Obeyed - we can have a good cruise on just about any ship. (well we did make a mistake and booked a cruise on the NCL Epic, but that's another story) After all, a so-so day at sea is better that a good day at the office.

 

As far as income inequality, there will always be income inequality. If you don't like how your income compares to others, put some hustle in your bustle, some pep in your step, and get out there and make some more money. If that's important to you. Me? I prefer to live slightly below my means and enjoy each day for the gift that it is. You never see a U-Haul truck following a hearse. ;)

 

Thank you so much for this post. I was a bit disgusted at all the whining about what others CHOOSE to pay for. We pay for it because we can. Why should anyone else care about what I want to do with my money? You're jealous you don't have the same then work for it or put the dough out for it.

 

It makes me so angry that those whining can afford a cruise at all and think they are some how getting ripped off. Does anyone have any idea how many people can't afford a cruise even if they save all their pennies. Aren't you the same to those people?

 

Seriously, to even be on this board complaining blows my mind.

[4774Papa]

Well said

[Bo1953]

Thank you so much for this post. I was a bit disgusted at all the whining about what others CHOOSE to pay for. We pay for it because we can. Why should anyone else care about what I want to do with my money? You're jealous you don't have the same then work for it or put the dough out for it.

 

It makes me so angry that those whining can afford a cruise at all and think they are some how getting ripped off. Does anyone have any idea how many people can't afford a cruise even if they save all their pennies. Aren't you the same to those people?

 

Seriously, to even be on this board complaining blows my mind.

 

Rated: 1+

 

Thank you Jules, the reason many may be here complaining, is because those who cannot afford to cruise would look at them cross-eyed trying to figure out what their real problem (privilege) is.... :cool:

 

bon voyage

Edited April 25, 2016 by Bo1953
inflamatory language and syntax