Casino: Do not play slots~!! Unregulated

[navybankerteacher]

I've cruised over 30 times and queried the pit bosses and Casino hosts.

 

Without exception they said that unlike Vegas or Atlantic city, there is no mechanism to ensure that the pay-offs are fair...

 

Have you noticed a decline in big winners over the years?

 

They say they oversee their own machines....LOL Think about it...not meeting budget?? Just tighten the pay-outs.

 

No institution will objectively oversee themselves, esp with no overseeing agencies. They play in international water and have the sit. Vegas could only dream about.

 

Think about it...

 

Al

 

You got me thinking - there are a lot of ways people can lose money in unregulated activities. Do you realize that when you buy a house, no one enforces "fair" pricing on the seller? If he gets you to pay a lot more than the house is worth - you will have lost money.

 

And home sellers don't even have to operate in international waters -- they can do it right in your own home town.

 

Think about it...

 

 

SHOCKING, SHOCKING!

[Wheatie59]

Since you know so much, explain to me what determines the odds/payoff on slot machines.

 

I can explain that, at least in theory and based on how they work in Nevada where they are regulated. Its possible something completely different is happening on cruise ship slots, which indeed are not regulated.

 

Most video slots are based on reel type mechanical slot machines. The reels are simulated in software, but the concept is the same as if they were mechanical. The reels can be much larger, since they don't have to fit in the space in the machine. Each reel has a series of symbols. Payouts are determined based on some paytable that pays out based on the pattern of symbols that appears on a payline.

 

When you start a hand, the reels start "spinning". When you hit the button or whatever to stop the reels, the computer samples the random number generator (RNG). This is a continuously running bit of code that's spitting out random numbers. When you stop, the value of the RNG determines the position of the reels. Even a slot with physical reels does the same thing. The RNG determines the position then the mechanisms stop the reels at the selected location. After the reels stop, the symbols under the payline (or, lines on most video machines) determines your payout.

 

The payout percentage is determined by the frequency of the symbols on the reels. So, to change the payout of a machine, you change the reels. More of the valuable symbols as compared to the lower value symbols gives a higher payout. The "wizard of odds" videoed some machines, determined the set of symbols that actually appeared on the reels and computed the paybacks for a few machines. Check here and here.

 

Changing the odds on older machines requires changing a chip. IDK exactly what this is but I'd guess its some sort of PROM (programmable read only memory) that defines the reels. There are newer "server based" machines that change do this electronically. In regulated jurisdictions like Nevada there are rules about when you can do this and how long it must take. These prevent a machine from being changed on the fly while its being played. For cruise ships and other unregulated locales, who knows.

[gooch47]

True except I believe the result is determined when you hit the button to spin, not stop the reels.

[lenquixote66]

I cruise 2-3 times a year . I only play penny slot machines on cruises and have yet to lose .I do lose frequently at on land casinos .

 

On a cruise 7 months ago I won $847 .On a cruise 5 months ago I won $201.

[albether7]

I cruise 2-3 times a year . I only play penny slot machines on cruises and have yet to lose .I do lose frequently at on land casinos .

 

On a cruise 7 months ago I won $847 .On a cruise 5 months ago I won $201.

 

This reminds me of the many bingo players who only remember their winnings... The question really is, "How much did you INVEST to WIN the $847 and $201?

 

So, how much did you feed the one-arm bandit to get "your"winnings"?

[Hlitner]

Since you know so much, explain to me what determines the odds/payoff on slot machines.

 

In the case of cruise ship casinos, the Casino operator. On land, the odds are by overnment agencies and laws. For example, in Pennsylvania the state law, that governs the operation of casinos, mandates that slots pay back at least 85% or 85 cents on the dollar. Casinos are free to set higher paybacks. But consider that slots can take 15% of every dollar. In Vegas, the minumum slot return is set at 75% or 75 cents on the dollar (most casinos choose to pay back a higher percentage). If you play Blackjack the house percentage is less then 3% (against players that understand the game). In craps the house percentage is even lower. Professional gamblers who truly understand the odds will quickly tell you that slots are a sucker game. There is a reason why the Vegas casinos carefully monitor Blackjack play....and consider card counting as cheating. It is because a very good Blackjack player (one with the amazing mental ability to count cards and determine odds) actually will have a percentage advantage over the house and can win. So in Vegas, when they spot such players they actually ban them from the casino! But nobody ever bans a slot player from the casino. Slots are a guaranteed profit maker and it is impossible (mathematically) for the Casino to lose with slots. The info on actual slot payback is public info (in the States) and you can find some good facts at:

http://www.americancasinoguide.com/slot-machine-payback-statistics.html

 

But try asking a cruise ship casino (or cruise line) for their slot payback statistics :).

 

We know a gentleman (his name is Bob) who has been a life long slot player. Bob will tell you that he wins at the slots. Years ago, Bob lost his home (due to his "winning" slot habit) and moved into his daughter's home. Within a year he lost his wife, his kids, his car, and just about everything he owned (all because of slots). To this day Bob will tell anyone (who will listen) that he loves the "action" of the slots and he wins! Does that mean folks should not play slots? Of course not....for many they are fun. And as long as they do it for fun there is no problem. But when a slot player starts insisting that they win.....it often means they have a problem.

 

Hank

Edited June 23, 2016 by Hlitner

[TC1957]

I read through threads like this and think "Duh! Do you think they air conditioned the Nevada desert with their own money?"

[navybankerteacher]

I cruise 2-3 times a year . I only play penny slot machines on cruises and have yet to lose .I do lose frequently at on land casinos .

 

On a cruise 7 months ago I won $847 .On a cruise 5 months ago I won $201.

 

It is good to keep a record of winnings -- but it is even more important to keep a record of losses, because one's memory might fail.

 

Speaking objectively: when I read you statement concerning your playing penny slots on cruises, that you have "yet to lose", I can only think that you should seek treatment.

[SteadyBetty]

gam·ble

ˈɡambəl/

verb

present participle: gambling

1. play games of chance for money; bet.

2. take risky action in the hope of a desired result.

[janetz]

My GF played the quarter slots on the Breakaway last fall. She won over 2600! I never win at all so I hardly ever play.

[iheartbda]

It is good to keep a record of winnings -- but it is even more important to keep a record of losses, because one's memory might fail.

......................

 

I won $97 and some odd cents. What was my loss? The $.25 cents I put in for one pull. Cashed out then and there.:D

[LMaxwell]

Yep, they can set it much tighter than regs in US states.

[navybankerteacher]

Of course, it is possible that a person might play a slot just one time in his life: putting in a quarter and winning $100, and then walking away and never playing a slot machine again.

 

Yeah, right!

[NLH Arizona]

True except I believe the result is determined when you hit the button to spin, not stop the reels.

You are correct, with the RNG, the minute you hit the button your hand is determined.

[geoherb]

Sure, slot players will often tell stories how they are good and always beat the slots. But the truth is that, on average, they will lose at least 5% of every dollar they put in those machines.

I'm almost guaranteed to lose 100% because I'll play until my $5 runs out unless I hit a big win. If so, I'll play until I reach a determined point in order to keep some of my winnings. I play two or three times a week during a cruise with a $5 limit each time.

[BlueCollarCruiser]

You just have to play the right strategy. Doing this will increase your odds of winning substantially and usually always make you a profit.

 

lol

[Harry and Lucille]

You just have to play the right strategy. Doing this will increase your odds of winning substantially and usually always make you a profit.

 

lol

 

It's a learning process and, you need to treat your knowledge as your favorite fishing spot. Tell nobody. A ship casino is like Vegas. What happens there, stays there. I could write a book on what I have learned, but, need to wait until some are no longer alive. :eek:

[lenquixote66]

This reminds me of the many bingo players who only remember their winnings... The question really is, "How much did you INVEST to WIN the $847 and $201?

 

So, how much did you feed the one-arm bandit to get "your"winnings"?

 

One $3.00 spin to win $847.00.

 

To win the $201 I have no recollection but it could not have been more than $40.00.

[lenquixote66]

It is good to keep a record of winnings -- but it is even more important to keep a record of losses, because one's memory might fail.

 

Speaking objectively: when I read you statement concerning your playing penny slots on cruises, that you have "yet to lose", I can only think that you should seek treatment.

 

On my first 2 cruises there were no casinos . From 2008 to present I have been on nearly 20 cruises .I normally go the the casino on every sea night and occasionally daytime . I allot a possible maximum daily loss of $40 per day .While I have lost occasionally on a day I have yet to lose anything after completion of a cruise .However,I am not saying that I win a lot ,it could be a few dollars.

[iheartbda]

Of course, it is possible that a person might play a slot just one time in his life: putting in a quarter and winning $100, and then walking away and never playing a slot machine again.

 

Yeah, right!

If you're referring to my post, just relating what I did. I've played slots before and I've played slots after. On that particular day, I decided to quit while I was ahead and took my winnings that time.

[BruceMuzz]

I've cruised over 30 times and queried the pit bosses and Casino hosts.

 

Without exception they said that unlike Vegas or Atlantic city, there is no mechanism to ensure that the pay-offs are fair...

 

Have you noticed a decline in big winners over the years?

 

They say they oversee their own machines....LOL Think about it...not meeting budget?? Just tighten the pay-outs.

 

No institution will objectively oversee themselves, esp with no overseeing agencies. They play in international water and have the sit. Vegas could only dream about.

 

Think about it...

 

Al

 

Cruise Ship Restaurants: Do Not Eat the Food-!! Unregulated

 

As a Cruise Ship Hotel Manager I have cruised over 1400 times.

All the Food and Beverage personnel worked for me.

 

There is almost no mechanism to ensure that the food served on cruise ships is safe to eat. Unlike land-based restaurants that have local health departments to keep an eye on them, cruise ships have nearly no mechanism to ensure that we are serving food that will not kill you.

 

Have you noticed the dramatic increase in cruise ship illnesses over the years?

 

We say that the USPH in America and Health Canada in Canada are checking ships that call in those 2 countries - but the inspections are only twice a year maximum. We can usually predict which week they will inspect us; the port agents often tip us off when the inspectors are in port; our security staff at the gangway are able to delay their arrival at the gangway. All of this allows us to get everything up to proper standards before the inspectors get a chance to check us.

 

We say that we oversee our own onboard cleanliness and sanitary conditions for 363 days of the year, when the inspectors are not onboard...LOL. Think about it...not meeting budget?? Just cancel the cleaning staff and save the expensive chemicals. If some pax get sick, we can call it Norwalk Virus and blame some passenger for bringing it onboard.

 

Ships that rarely or never go to US or Canadian ports may never be inspected by any outside regulators. No institution can objectively oversee themselves, esp with little or no overseeing agencies. They stay in international water and have the sit. that McDonalds and Olive Garden can only dream of.

 

Think about it...

 

Bruce

[Texas Tillie]

Thanks, BruceMuzz! :D:p:):cool:

[Hlitner]

Cruise Ship Restaurants: Do Not Eat the Food-!! Unregulated

 

As a Cruise Ship Hotel Manager I have cruised over 1400 times.

All the Food and Beverage personnel worked for me.

 

There is almost no mechanism to ensure that the food served on cruise ships is safe to eat. Unlike land-based restaurants that have local health departments to keep an eye on them, cruise ships have nearly no mechanism to ensure that we are serving food that will not kill you.

 

Have you noticed the dramatic increase in cruise ship illnesses over the years?

 

We say that the USPH in America and Health Canada in Canada are checking ships that call in those 2 countries - but the inspections are only twice a year maximum. We can usually predict which week they will inspect us; the port agents often tip us off when the inspectors are in port; our security staff at the gangway are able to delay their arrival at the gangway. All of this allows us to get everything up to proper standards before the inspectors get a chance to check us.

 

We say that we oversee our own onboard cleanliness and sanitary conditions for 363 days of the year, when the inspectors are not onboard...LOL. Think about it...not meeting budget?? Just cancel the cleaning staff and save the expensive chemicals. If some pax get sick, we can call it Norwalk Virus and blame some passenger for bringing it onboard.

 

Ships that rarely or never go to US or Canadian ports may never be inspected by any outside regulators. No institution can objectively oversee themselves, esp with little or no overseeing agencies. They stay in international water and have the sit. that McDonalds and Olive Garden can only dream of.

 

Think about it...

 

Bruce

 

Bruce, We are big fans of your posts here on CC since you bring an inside perspective that is very special. But this time, you have gone over the top and make little sense. Comparing food and health safety, to casino regulation is just ridiculous (and you probably knew it as soon as you posted). Cruise lines do everything in their power to avoid adverse publicity related to health and food safety. A single major Noro outbreak (which might have been caused by a passenger bringing the bug aboard) can be devastating to a cruise line. Besides having to deal with onboard problems (of which you would be expert) there are plenty of folks that will switch their future booking(s) to a different line, or perhaps decide to not even cruise. There are lots of folks that overreact to any bad publicity,,,,whether that is right or wrong. So you, as a hotel manager, will continue to do everything in your power to assure the health and safety of every passenger and crew member under your charge. But the casino is a different "animal" which beats to its own drum (much of the beat not being under the Hotel department) with very little chance of making the evening news, newspapers around the world, etc.

 

Hank

[Hlitner]

Cruise Ship Restaurants: Do Not Eat the Food-!! Unregulated

 

Duplicate post

 

Hank

Edited June 26, 2016 by Hlitner

[calliopecruiser]

Bruce, We are big fans of your posts here on CC since you bring an inside perspective that is very special. But this time, you have gone over the top and make little sense. Comparing food and health safety, to casino regulation is just ridiculous (and you probably knew it as soon as you posted). Cruise lines do everything in their power to avoid adverse publicity related to health and food safety. A single major Noro outbreak (which might have been caused by a passenger bringing the bug aboard) can be devastating to a cruise line. Besides having to deal with onboard problems (of which you would be expert) there are plenty of folks that will switch their future booking(s) to a different line, or perhaps decide to not even cruise. There are lots of folks that overreact to any bad publicity,,,,whether that is right or wrong. So you, as a hotel manager, will continue to do everything in your power to assure the health and safety of every passenger and crew member under your charge. But the casino is a different "animal" which beats to its own drum (much of the beat not being under the Hotel department) with very little chance of making the evening news, newspapers around the world, etc.

 

Hank

 

I totally understood what Bruce was doing -- essentially, if you expect anything to be regulated by anyone other than the cruise line itself, you'll be out of luck. If you don't trust the cruise line to do things properly, don't sail with them.....because there's really no regulation at all beyond safety regs (and I even wonder about the oversight on some of those).