Communication to higher management

[Ron the Rev]

With the imminent advent of Club Class dining Iv'e posed a problem to UK customer services. That being that there are no HC staterooms in the Mini Suites eligible for that service. After several phone calls and emails to customer services, their supervisory team have repeatedly contacted Princess USA, with regard to allowing Mini HC cabins, to have the option of Club Class applied to them, say at an upcharge, if the passenger so wishes. This problem seems to have hit a brick wall with no response. Iv'e a mind now to write to USA policy team and would like to know the best way ( name and address ) of a possible recipient who could give a definitive answer. I would be grateful for any advice from cc members. Many thanks.

[Pam in CA]

Good luck. I think you're going to need it.

 

There are many promotions that aren't fair to a group of passengers. For instance, the "Sip & Sail" which is only for balcony categories and above. Not only do singles pay 200% but we are far less likely to book a balcony or above. Most promotional pricing is based on double occupancy. I remember one promotion that was a 2:1... You paid the fare for one person and the second person went for free. Singles were excluded from this promotion and no amount of whining or complaints changed Princess' mind.

[Aussieflyer]

Good luck. I think you're going to need it.

 

There are many promotions that aren't fair to a group of passengers. For instance, the "Sip & Sail" which is only for balcony categories and above. Not only do singles pay 200% but we are far less likely to book a balcony or above. Most promotional pricing is based on double occupancy. I remember one promotion that was a 2:1... You paid the fare for one person and the second person went for free. Singles were excluded from this promotion and no amount of whining or complaints changed Princess' mind.

But in this case it is not a promotion. It is a new cabin category. It is very poor of the part of Princess not to have included any HC cabins in this category.

Hopefully OP you will be able to get a response. I would also hit social media with your concerns as that seems to often have a result.

[skynight]

With the imminent advent of Club Class dining Iv'e posed a problem to UK customer services. That being that there are no HC staterooms in the Mini Suites eligible for that service. After several phone calls and emails to customer services, their supervisory team have repeatedly contacted Princess USA, with regard to allowing Mini HC cabins, to have the option of Club Class applied to them, say at an upcharge, if the passenger so wishes. This problem seems to have hit a brick wall with no response. Iv'e a mind now to write to USA policy team and would like to know the best way ( name and address ) of a possible recipient who could give a definitive answer. I would be grateful for any advice from cc members. Many thanks.

In the U.S. it is law that mostly everything offered to the non-HCP be also accessible to those with handicaps. Princess as a U.S. based company doing business in California has to follow these laws. It seems to me that the exclusion of HCP accessible cabins from the Club Class dining may not be in compliance with law. If it is technically in legal compliance, then it is just not within the general concepts of the laws which is to offer equal access to all.

Now what is the best way to handle this issue? You already took the first steps without any positive results. I think it is time for the next steps.

Princess seems to respond to Facebook inquiries fairly promptly. I would go this route first. If this is not successful then you should write to Jan Swartz at Princess' home office in Santa Clarita California, attaching copies of all previous letters & e-mails. I would also send a copy to the Princess corporate legal department, name not known. You most likely will not receive a reply from Jan Swartz, but from some customer service staff member. If it isn't to your liking then I would suggest another letter to the State of California Commission on Disability Access. You can get their mailing address on the internet. There are also other California State agencies that handle HCP issues. Check them out. Princess is a California based business so this is why you write to the State. Any letter you write to the State agency should be copied to the Princess legal department and maybe to Jan Swartz also. You will probably not receive a response from the State of California, but the Princess legal department does not want these agencies to open an investigation. So it is likely Princess will respond in some manner.

I think it best that all this after facebook correspondence be via postal service, not via e-mail.

Hope this helps. It can be a long process.

Edited August 19, 2016 by sknight

[Colo Cruiser]

Good luck. I think you're going to need it.

 

 

 

I agree.

[thinfool]

In the U.S. it is law that mostly everything offered to the non-HCP be also accessible to those with handicaps. Princess as a U.S. based company doing business in California has to follow these laws. It seems to me that the exclusion of HCP accessible cabins from the Club Class dining may not be in compliance with law. If it is technically in legal compliance, then it is just not within the general concepts of the laws which is to offer equal access to all.

Now what is the best way to handle this issue? You already took the first steps without any positive results. I think it is time for the next steps.

Princess seems to respond to Facebook inquiries fairly promptly. I would go this route first. If this is not successful then you should write to Jan Swartz at Princess' home office in Santa Clarita California, attaching copies of all previous letters & e-mails. I would also send a copy to the Princess corporate legal department, name not known. You most likely will not receive a reply from Jan Swartz, but from some customer service staff member. If it isn't to your liking then I would suggest another letter to the State of California Commission on Disability Access. You can get their mailing address on the internet. There are also other California State agencies that handle HCP issues. Check them out. Princess is a California based business so this is why you write to the State. Any letter you write to the State agency should be copied to the Princess legal department and maybe to Jan Swartz also. You will probably not receive a response from the State of California, but the Princess legal department does not want these agencies to open an investigation. So it is likely Princess will respond in some manner.

I think it best that all this after facebook correspondence be via postal service, not via e-mail.

Hope this helps. It can be a long process.

 

 

This is tricky as Princess is a corporation registered in Bermuda, and is part of Carnival Corp that is registered in Panama.

 

Other posts indicate that ships calling at US ports must be ADA compliant, but I have not seen this requirement on itineraries that are fully outside of the US.

 

Finally, so often the Marketing Dept of cruise lines dreams up a new twist on selling cabins and cruises and, sadly, is seriously short of thinking it all the way through. They leave that to the overcharged and underserved passengers.

[LARGIN]

Problem is that quite often non-handicapped individuals purchase a HC cabin. What is to stop someone from purchasing a HC mini and demanding that they be given Club Class Access? Question... Are there any HC Full Suites? I do not recall seeing any.. If not, can a person in a HC mini demand full suite perks? :confused::confused:

[JimmyVWine]

This is tricky as Princess is a corporation registered in Bermuda, and is part of Carnival Corp that is registered in Panama.

 

Other posts indicate that ships calling at US ports must be ADA compliant, but I have not seen this requirement on itineraries that are fully outside of the US.

 

It's all right here. Seems pretty clear that Princess will have to budge on this issue.

[EDDY0827]

As far as I can tell, ANY handicapped Mini Suite can be designated as a "Club Class" Mini Suite.

I see no physical difference between a regular handicapped Mini Suite and a Club Class Mini Suite. The main differences are priority embark/disembark, 1/2 bottle of white wine, 1/2 a bottle of red wine and an exclusive dining area. All rooms are getting or already have the new bedding. All of these amenities can be enjoyed from any Mini Suite, handicapped or not. There is no need for a set aside handicapped Club Class Mini Suite, any handicapped Mini Suite will work.

[JimmyVWine]

As far as I can tell, ANY handicapped Mini Suite can be designated as a "Club Class" Mini Suite.

Correct. So this should be an easy fix. Using the Crown Princess as an example, if a passenger seeks to book a Club Class Mini-Suite and also requires a HC cabin, the following would apply:

• Are there any CLCL cabins still available? If they are sold out then the passenger trying to book one would be out of luck. The ship can "capacity control" this feature, and when they are gone they are gone.
  
• Assuming that they are not sold out, then the next question is: Are either D304, D308, D703 or D707 still available. If they are not, then again, the passenger is out of luck as there simply aren't any HC Mini-Suites left. But if one of those cabins is available, then the passenger gets one of those, pays the CLCL price, and Princess wipes one of the mid-ship CLCL cabins off the inventory list and changes it back to a "regular" Mini-Suite. So by way of example, for that cruise, cabin D332 will become an "MB" instead of a "M1". This keeps the capacity control in place.
  

Not really that difficult. Especially since that ship only has four HC Mini-Suites. Worst case scenario (from a logistics viewpoint, not from a HC passenger's viewpoint) is that all four HC Mini-Suites get booked out as CLCL cabins and four other cabins have to revert to MB status. Certainly not the end of the world. What I don't know is how quickly those four HC Mini-Suites book up. If they get snatched up fast, and by people who do not want to use them as CLCL cabins, then people who try to book later and want a HC CLCL cabin will be out of luck. But it is hard to do anything about that. "First to the trough" has always been the rule for getting what one wants.

[Murphey]

This is tricky as Princess is a corporation registered in Bermuda, and is part of Carnival Corp that is registered in Panama.

 

.

 

Corporate Headquarters Carnival Corporation Carnival Place 3655 N.W. 87th Avenue Miami, Florida 33178-2428 U.S.A. 305-599-2600

[fishywood]

May I suggest an alternate strategy that may actually have a chance of a timely resolution?

 

If you require a handicapped accessible cabin, but there are none in the M1 Club Class category, you should demand to book an accessible full suite at the M1 price.

 

Now if you are successful you won't be able to share that with us as you almost certainly would be required to sign a confidentiality agreement. So if your point is to affect policy change for all this won't do it. But if all you want is to get what you feel one is personally entitled to on a case by case basis this tack is what I recommend.

[thinfool]

It's all right here. Seems pretty clear that Princess will have to budge on this issue.

 

 

Nice post

The OP is in the UK and may not be booking an itinerary that includes a US port.

The cited legal decision only includes US inclusive itineraries.

 

 

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[thinfool]

Corporate Headquarters Carnival Corporation Carnival Place 3655 N.W. 87th Avenue Miami, Florida 33178-2428 U.S.A. 305-599-2600

 

 

Totally accurate address. Still, CCL is chartered in the Republic of Panama. (RCL is chartered in Liberia)

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[Shogun]

Hi Ron,

 

Have you spoken to Princess UK director,

 

if you you want to e mail me will chat to you,

 

think I have a mobile number for him,

 

my dog shogun at yahoo dot co dot uk

 

yours Shogun

[cherylandtk]

May I suggest an alternate strategy that may actually have a chance of a timely resolution?

 

If you require a handicapped accessible cabin, but there are none in the M1 Club Class category, you should demand to book an accessible full suite at the M1 price.

 

Now if you are successful you won't be able to share that with us as you almost certainly would be required to sign a confidentiality agreement. So if your point is to affect policy change for all this won't do it. But if all you want is to get what you feel one is personally entitled to on a case by case basis this tack is what I recommend.

Probably not as 'secret' as you think. This is in the Settlement Agreement, attachment C:

If an individual with a disability requests an accessible cabin type in a Meta where no accessible cabin exists (i.e., never built as opposed to sold out) and the desired Meta still has non-accessible cabins available for booking at that time, the Company will upgrade the individual at no charge to the same type of accessible cabin or suite in the next immediately higher available Meta where that type of accessible cabin or suite is available.

 

Princess either has to give a handicapped person the next higher meta (Full Suite) OR they need to go back and do as others have suggested...make some of the existing HA minis M1 Club Class. Of course, doing that messes with their plan of grouping all the Club Class rooms together, but oh well, they didn't think that part through.

[JimmyVWine]

Probably not as 'secret' as you think. This is in the Settlement Agreement, attachment C:

 

It is heartening to know that somebody actually read the Agreement! ;)

[fishywood]

It is heartening to know that somebody actually read the Agreement! ;)

 

You mean the agreement that only applies to sailings that embark and disembark from US waters? (para. 4)

OP is in the UK.

Edited August 19, 2016 by fishywood

[Colo Cruiser]

Boom!

[cherylandtk]

While the agreement only applies to ships with US departure/arrival ports, Princess will have to comply, and while they could cease to comply on other itineraries it seems to me that some (many?,most?) of the compliance articles would be harder to change from cruise to cruise than to just leave them in place full time. So people from other countries would likely benefit from those articles.

[Montrealais]

This is tricky as Princess is a corporation registered in Bermuda, and is part of Carnival Corp that is registered in Panama.

 

Other posts indicate that ships calling at US ports must be ADA compliant, but I have not seen this requirement on itineraries that are fully outside of the US.

 

Finally, so often the Marketing Dept of cruise lines dreams up a new twist on selling cabins and cruises and, sadly, is seriously short of thinking it all the way through. They leave that to the overcharged and underserved passengers.

 

Get a lawyer and fight them for years! Just calculate the pros and cons $$$$! :eek:

[JimmyVWine]

While the agreement only applies to ships with US departure/arrival ports, Princess will have to comply, and while they could cease to comply on other itineraries it seems to me that some (many?,most?) of the compliance articles would be harder to change from cruise to cruise than to just leave them in place full time. So people from other countries would likely benefit from those articles.

 

Exactly. This is a fleetwide issue, not an OP specific issue. I suppose that Carnival can get around compliance for a ship that never, ever touches a U.S. port. But that is probably more effort than it's worth and risky PR.

[WpgCruise]

To the O.P. please let us know the results of your correspondence with Princess Management/Leadership. I am interested in their response.

[Lucky TGO]

Good luck. I think you're going to need it.

 

Ditto!!

Tony

[Ron the Rev]

In the U.S. it is law that mostly everything offered to the non-HCP be also accessible to those with handicaps. Princess as a U.S. based company doing business in California has to follow these laws. It seems to me that the exclusion of HCP accessible cabins from the Club Class dining may not be in compliance with law. If it is technically in legal compliance, then it is just not within the general concepts of the laws which is to offer equal access to all.

Now what is the best way to handle this issue? You already took the first steps without any positive results. I think it is time for the next steps.

Princess seems to respond to Facebook inquiries fairly promptly. I would go this route first. If this is not successful then you should write to Jan Swartz at Princess' home office in Santa Clarita California, attaching copies of all previous letters & e-mails. I would also send a copy to the Princess corporate legal department, name not known. You most likely will not receive a reply from Jan Swartz, but from some customer service staff member. If it isn't to your liking then I would suggest another letter to the State of California Commission on Disability Access. You can get their mailing address on the internet. There are also other California State agencies that handle HCP issues. Check them out. Princess is a California based business so this is why you write to the State. Any letter you write to the State agency should be copied to the Princess legal department and maybe to Jan Swartz also. You will probably not receive a response from the State of California, but the Princess legal department does not want these agencies to open an investigation. So it is likely Princess will respond in some manner.

I think it best that all this after facebook correspondence be via postal service, not via e-mail.

Hope this helps. It can be a long process.

 

Many thanks sknight

Iv'e taken your advice and posted my problem on Facebook yesterday and have received a very rapid favourable response from "Princess Cruises

20 August at 01:04

 

Hi, Ronald. I'm so sorry to hear there has been a delay responding to your question. There are accessible Club Class staterooms on Royal and Regal Princess, and we're in the process of finalizing a solution for our other ships. If you would like to email our Access Department at accessofficeprincess@princesscruises.com, they should be able to contact you with those details once they're available. We look forward to welcoming you aboard in the near future! "

Many thanks to all other cc's for your help. Every blessing.:)