New lifeboat drill ?

[hootmon]

We are booked on the Konningsdam Oct 18. We understand you no longer have to stand on deck with life jackets on for roll call.Hope this is true. Can anyone confirm this ? Thanks

[ski ww]

We haven't had to wear life jackets for years. On the Konningsdam safety drill is done inside the ship.

Allan

[OlsSalt]

Apparently theres is not sufficient outdoor deck space on the Konigsdam to conduct the drill outdoors, which is actually the preferred procedure. We were informed one of the primary goals for this staff training operation is to ensure everyone is out of the ship and accounted for outside. This has been compromised due to the narrow promenade deck design of this one ship (and her sister the Nieuw Statendam?), but apparently remains the preferred procedure on the other HAL ships. According to ship engineer reports here.

 

While passengers report varying degrees of annoyance about the muster drills, training and re-training the staff in this critical duty is paramount. Our own ritual is to reward ourselves with a Tropa-Mango-Mojito in the Crows Nest after the crowd leaving the muster have thinned out and salute the beginning of yet another great HAL cruise. .

[sppunk]

Correct. Muster is done indoors (in the MDR, the theater, Queens Lounge, etc). Staff help direct you to the proper location, and pull-up banners are all around with codes that match your keycard on where to go. Your keycard is scanned once you arrive to your muster location.

 

You do not take lifejackets to muster on any HAL ship.

[Krazy Kruizers]

It is only on the Koningsdam that you do not stand out on the outer deck under your assigned life boat.

No ship requires you to take a life jacket any more -- that has been in effect for several years.

[rafinmd]

Where you go for muster is in large part a function of ship design. The Koningsdam is the first HAL ship where it is held inside the ship. Both indoor and outdoor muster has it's advantages. I do not want to muster in the dining room if the galley is on fire and I don't want to stand on the promenade deck if the ship loses power in gale force winds and 30-foot seas. I think most cruise lines have contingency plans for alternate muster locations if the primary location is compromised.

 

The need for different muster locations is a function of ALL HAL ships. There is insufficient space to muster outside on the Koningsdam, while on the R&S class ships the lower promenade deck is all passenger cabins and there is no space for a muster inside but near the lifeboats. Different designs require different muster plans.

 

Lifejackets have not been required at HAL muster for at least the last 6 years.

 

Perhaps a bigger change in the muster drill is that it is now done in 3 stages. The first stage is for crew only and calls response teams to evaluate the situation. No specific passenger action is required at that stage. The second stage is for pretty much the entire crew to prepare for an emergency and the possibility of an evacuation. At that stage the instruction is for passengers to return to their cabins and gather the essentials (warm clothing, meds, etc.) and stand by for further instructions. It makes sense for me not to have passengers standing under the lifeboats while the crew stows deck chairs and prepares to deploy the boats. At the final stage the passengers report to their muster stations.

 

I am not generally a fan of Carnival but there is one thing I like about their Fantasy Class muster drill. The assembly is in an indoor room and at the end we are led out to the actual lifeboats. Very nice.

 

Roy

[Sequim88]

We haven't had to wear life jackets for years.

 

Most lines have adopted this - partly for Noro control. People could not resist blowing the attached whistles. Also cabin steward time to properly re-stow them.

[GradUT]

The muster drills on the HAL ships have been the most organized and best-run drills that I have encountered on any of my cruises--including Princess and Carnival. (The Carnival musters are a circus--starting inside and then trying to herd cats to the lifeboats.)

[TAD2005]

The whole point of a muster drill is to make passengers aware of where they need to go in the horrible possibility of needing to abandon ship. If the muster drill has you going to a showroom, MDR or casino, then what good is it ?? In a real emergency, and the command to abandon ship happens, there will be generalized panic anyway, but if you know where your lifeboat station is, you are ahead of the game and can head that way. If the kaka hits the fan, are people going to be content to sit in a lounge somewhere waiting for all of the stragglers to show up ? Of course not.

The K-Dam Promenade deck design makes things even worse. They decided to eliminate all of that "wasted space" of the traditional promenade decks to allow for more expanded shops in the interior of the ship. It appears the Nieuw Statendam will be the same.

[hootmon]

Thanks to everyone for the replies !

[navybankerteacher]

Actually the drills are not just for the passengers. The ship's company benefit from the repeated drills in crowd control and muster-taking --- while the passengers need instruction in orderly assembly - in most HAL cases at their abandon ship stations - which it helps for them to know.

 

Reflecting my experience on seven different lines, I believe HAL has the most credible and well-run drills. The greatest farce was on Princess - where some dancers, who were embarrassingly unable to put on the life jackets supposedly to show us how, conducted things in the theatre. I am glad no emergency arose on that cruise.

[hrhdhd]

The whole point of a muster drill is to make passengers aware of where they need to go in the horrible possibility of needing to abandon ship. If the muster drill has you going to a showroom, MDR or casino, then what good is it ?? In a real emergency, and the command to abandon ship happens, there will be generalized panic anyway, but if you know where your lifeboat station is, you are ahead of the game and can head that way.

 

If your muster station is the casino, that is where you'd head in an emergency. An emergency may or may not necessitate passengers getting into (or even near) lifeboats.

[sppunk]

The whole point of a muster drill is to make passengers aware of where they need to go in the horrible possibility of needing to abandon ship. If the muster drill has you going to a showroom, MDR or casino, then what good is it ?? In a real emergency, and the command to abandon ship happens, there will be generalized panic anyway, but if you know where your lifeboat station is, you are ahead of the game and can head that way. If the kaka hits the fan, are people going to be content to sit in a lounge somewhere waiting for all of the stragglers to show up ? Of course not.

The K-Dam Promenade deck design makes things even worse. They decided to eliminate all of that "wasted space" of the traditional promenade decks to allow for more expanded shops in the interior of the ship. It appears the Nieuw Statendam will be the same.

Not true at all. Muster is when there is an emergency, it has zero to do with abandoning ship. That is the very last, least likely action.

 

The number of musters vs abandoning ships is probably at least 10:1.

[rkacruiser]

The muster drills on the HAL ships have been the most organized and best-run drills that I have encountered on any of my cruises--including Princess and Carnival. (The Carnival musters are a circus--starting inside and then trying to herd cats to the lifeboats.)

 

Just a different observation:

 

January, 2017 aboard Carnival Liberty: We mustered on an outside deck (covered by the way) near my group's assigned lifeboats. We were informed as to which lifeboats would be "ours". The group was orderly and quiet when asked to be. The crew was professional in what they did during the drill. My only concern was: being at the rear of that large group, I had difficulty in hearing the instructions being given by the Lifeboat Commander.

[wbrumel]

Most lines have adopted this - partly for Noro control. People could not resist blowing the attached whistles. Also cabin steward time to properly re-stow them.

 

Actually I was told it was a safety issue. Too many people falling on the dangling straps on the steps.

[Cruise Junky]

Apparently theres is not sufficient outdoor deck space on the Konigsdam to conduct the drill outdoors, which is actually the preferred procedure. .

 

 

Preferred by whom? Other lines with sufficient outdoor space dropped this years ago. It would be very rare indeed to abandon ship. Passengers should hang in a safe warm environment until the emergency is accessed. And then led in groups in sufficient number to fill each life boat.

[chengkp75]

The whole point of a muster drill is to make passengers aware of where they need to go in the horrible possibility of needing to abandon ship. If the muster drill has you going to a showroom, MDR or casino, then what good is it ?? In a real emergency, and the command to abandon ship happens, there will be generalized panic anyway, but if you know where your lifeboat station is, you are ahead of the game and can head that way. If the kaka hits the fan, are people going to be content to sit in a lounge somewhere waiting for all of the stragglers to show up ? Of course not.

The K-Dam Promenade deck design makes things even worse. They decided to eliminate all of that "wasted space" of the traditional promenade decks to allow for more expanded shops in the interior of the ship. It appears the Nieuw Statendam will be the same.

 

Not true at all. Muster is when there is an emergency, it has zero to do with abandoning ship. That is the very last, least likely action.

 

The number of musters vs abandoning ships is probably at least 10:1.

 

This is correct. Passengers will be sent to muster locations regardless of the type of emergency, when the Captain determines that it is beneficial to get all the passengers to known locations (the muster stations), accounted for, and under the supervision of the crew, to keep them safe from the emergency. It frees those crew who are actually responding to the emergency from diverting assets to locating possible passengers in the emergency area.

 

This is the main purpose of the passenger muster, to have all the passengers accounted for, and in known locations, with crew to direct them, not to get into lifeboats. Only if the Captain subsequently feels that it is better for the passengers to leave the ship than remain onboard, would he make the decision to board the lifeboats. Groups are then, orderly, sent from the muster stations to the boat stations to board the boats. Indoor stations also clear the outside decks around the boats for the crew to prepare the boats, which they do always, regardless of whether the Captain ever feels the need to abandon ship.

[Boytjie]

Most lines have adopted this - partly for Noro control. People could not resist blowing the attached whistles. Also cabin steward time to properly re-stow them.

 

There were posts here that it was done away with because of all the accidents due to tripping on straps. Who knows what the real reason is!

[Boytjie]

The whole point of a muster drill is to make passengers aware of where they need to go in the horrible possibility of needing to abandon ship. If the muster drill has you going to a showroom, MDR or casino, then what good is it ?? In a real emergency, and the command to abandon ship happens, there will be generalized panic anyway, but if you know where your lifeboat station is, you are ahead of the game and can head that way. If the kaka hits the fan, are people going to be content to sit in a lounge somewhere waiting for all of the stragglers to show up ? Of course not.

The K-Dam Promenade deck design makes things even worse. They decided to eliminate all of that "wasted space" of the traditional promenade decks to allow for more expanded shops in the interior of the ship. It appears the Nieuw Statendam will be the same.

 

And if the fire is on - or affects - the Promenade Deck those rushing to the lifeboats will be in more than kaka.

 

I don't recall that any of our non-HAL cruises had muster drills on the Promenade Deck. I doubt HAL is the only one that gets it right.

[3rdGenCunarder]

This is correct. Passengers will be sent to muster locations regardless of the type of emergency, when the Captain determines that it is beneficial to get all the passengers to known locations (the muster stations), accounted for, and under the supervision of the crew, to keep them safe from the emergency. It frees those crew who are actually responding to the emergency from diverting assets to locating possible passengers in the emergency area.

 

This is the main purpose of the passenger muster, to have all the passengers accounted for, and in known locations, with crew to direct them, not to get into lifeboats. Only if the Captain subsequently feels that it is better for the passengers to leave the ship than remain onboard, would he make the decision to board the lifeboats. Groups are then, orderly, sent from the muster stations to the boat stations to board the boats. Indoor stations also clear the outside decks around the boats for the crew to prepare the boats, which they do always, regardless of whether the Captain ever feels the need to abandon ship.

 

This is a good point. It reminds me of when I taught in a middle school. From kindergarten, the kids in that district were taught that at a fire drill, they went outside and lined up with their class--no visiting with friends in other classes--so the teacher could take attendance, which we were required to do.

 

I prefer the indoor muster. In the awful event of abandoning ship, the crew will take passengers to the boats, and they can take people out in an orderly way (assuming people cooperate), probably one boat at a time, or maybe every other boat so that there's room to move. When we muster on deck on HAL ships, it's a tightly packed crowd along the whole deck, and that's without the extra bulk of the life vests.

 

I do worry about the three-step drill. In theory it's good. People should sit tight while the crew do what they have to do on deck. But during the drill, if you wait in your cabin for the call to the muster station, you'll be the last one to arrive because people go right to the boat instead of following directions. I don't think people will stay in their cabins, even if told to.

 

On QM2, passengers muster indoors. This works because the promenade deck has all public space inside,and there are lots of doors. We know our station (by letter, which is on the card key) but we don't know our lifeboat number. So in an emergency, people cannot choose to go directly to their boat and get in the way of crew preparations on the deck.

[3rdGenCunarder]

There were posts here that it was done away with because of all the accidents due to tripping on straps. Who knows what the real reason is!

 

That's what we were told when the change was first made.

[OlsSalt]

Preferred by whom? Other lines with sufficient outdoor space dropped this years ago. It would be very rare indeed to abandon ship. Passengers should hang in a safe warm environment until the emergency is accessed. And then led in groups in sufficient number to fill each life boat.

 

There was a very thorough explanation of the drill mission and procedures from our resident insider ship's professional "chengkp". (Chief Engineer) He frankly admitted the "comfort of the passengers" was the last consideration during these drills - they are primarily to ensure the crew has its act together.

 

See if a search can find this highly informative post from someone on the "inside". Gave an entirely new perspective on this exercise and a little more tolerance for what role we "stand in passengers" actually play. All we have to do is show up.

 

The crew on the other hand has a far more complex and highly coordinated mission to accomplish at this time. Wth critical monitoring of how each played out their own active roles, which are quite different from our far more passive ones as passengers.

 

I admit in the beginning I always thought these drills were for meeee, the passenger. I have a totally different perspective now knowing the real drill focus is elsewhere at that time. We best just line up and stay quiet and let our crew members run through their paces as best they can.

 

I also suspect in a real emergency, all hands dutifully waiting inside and lining up like good troupers for one's turn to exit to the outside may not be a given. But that perhaps comes from watching too many disaster videos when one's own moment with their maker gets the real test. I now side with the original plan on the older ships, get those passengers outside as quickly as possible ... if that is the ultimate game plan. Otherwise other directions will be given.

[rkacruiser]

3rdGenCunarder's comment about the 3 stage Muster Drill: will guests follow those exact instructions of returning to their cabins initially have made me wonder as well how well this will work in an actual emergency. I have followed the directions on my most recent cruise where the new procedures have been started. And, I find that I am among the last to arrive at my station.

 

I think going to one's stateroom first is a good idea in a potential emergency. One then has time to gather passport, money/credit cards, medicine, and appropriate clothing for a possible evacuation from the ship. (And, even some time to visit the bathroom should not be forgotten, either.)

[rkacruiser]

There is something to be said in favor mustering stations in the ship's interior. If one recalls the rather severe fire that Star Princess experienced a few years ago, if their muster stations had been on an outside deck, some of those would have been directly beneath the area of the exterior of the ship that was burning.

[3rdGenCunarder]

3rdGenCunarder's comment about the 3 stage Muster Drill: will guests follow those exact instructions of returning to their cabins initially have made me wonder as well how well this will work in an actual emergency. I have followed the directions on my most recent cruise where the new procedures have been started. And, I find that I am among the last to arrive at my station.

 

I think going to one's stateroom first is a good idea in a potential emergency. One then has time to gather passport, money/credit cards, medicine, and appropriate clothing for a possible evacuation from the ship. (And, even some time to visit the bathroom should not be forgotten, either.)

 

I think going to your stateroom first is a good idea for the drill, too. Often, the route is through crew stairways, and people who go to the boat early, even before the drill starts, may not have followed their evacuation route, so they don't have a chance to see where they would be going in an emergency.