Very Bad HAL Maintenance.....or is it just me?

[sammiedawg]

When was the last time you were on an older HAL ship?

 

I didn't see any in your signature?

 

I sail the oldest ship in the fleet often - do live threads and do report issues I see.

 

Yes, stuff can happen. The window in the Crow's Nest was cracked on that ship from a major storm. It couldn't be replaced until it got to a certain port as the windows for that ship have to be specially ordered.

 

It's not that they wouldn't fix the problem -they couldn't. The window had to be ordered, made and then they needed to get to a port where they had the people who could install it. Older ships have some intricacies about them that go beyond regular maintenance.

 

And, this is not a cheerlead post, nor making excuses, just pointing out that some issues cannot be fixed immediately, sadly.

 

Talking about the oldest ship in the fleet. We definitely had physical plant issues. Some things off the top of my head, we sailed three years ago.

Cabin AC died once or twice a day virtually every single day

Musty smelling cabin, especially closet area. I'm fairly sure there was mold. We both got sick with terrible URI's that lasted for weeks

Musty smelling hallways and card rooms, some public rest rooms reeked of must

In our non Neptune suite we had broken drawers that rattled with the slightest movement of the ship. Our cabin steward automatically left stacks of wash clothes and told us to shove them into areas where the drawer hit the bureau. Also broken coffee table, missing castor and possibly a loose piece of glass or marble on top. We used the washcloths there to stop the rattling

Pocket door into the bathroom could not be totally closed, it rattled with movement of the ship. Wash clothes didn't help. it rattled for fourteen days and nights

Broken down chaise loungers on promenade deck with rusty hardware. There were not very many and most did not recline

In our cabin rotting woodword around window sill

Rotting exterior doors, windows, floorboards on sections of the promenade deck

Poor ventilation, we were on when smoking was allowed in the casino. If there were exhaust fans they were not working. Smoke poured into the coffee bar and sections of the library, every single day

 

Carpets, soft goods were in good condition.

[kazu]

Sorry, but it pretty much is. This ship not only had apparent problems it had multiple signs of old and continue maintenance problems. It should not have sailed. Bluntly, it was nasty and unacceptable. There were many 4 and 5 star mariners on board and many who were as disgusted as the folks posting here.

 

I have no doubt about that, but please don't tell me what I am posting and accuse me of something I am not doing.

 

I was trying to explain some issues with windows etc.

 

I wasn't referencing this ship or sailing as you can see from my post that you chose to edit. The oldest ship in the fleet is NOT the Rotterdam.

[KroozNut]

We don't necessarily want a ship in perfect condition.

 

Good to know, because you are likely to never find that on any line.

 

What we do want is a cabin where the HVAC cabin filter has been changed on a regular basis to reduce the amount of mold and spores in the air.

 

Can you share with us how you validate this, as it would be good information for all.

 

But, we are not going to take a chance on ending up in a cabin like this on a poorly maintained ship when we can spend the same money and greatly reduce our chances of ending up in a cabin like this simply by selecting a different ship or different cruise line.

 

Our experience after 25+ cruises on various lines is that conditions are relatively the same on all of them.

 

We expect to get what we paid for and we are not shy to complain if we do not.

 

I can already visualize you in line at guest services complaining about something as soon as you step onboard.

 

Just regular folks expecting to get what we paid for. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

This is such a subjective statement, that it doesn't even merit comment (but I did anyway)! ;)

[aliaschief]

Just got off the old old Prisendam after a 34 day cruise. Everything worked perfectly for us. I'm sure that some passenger on the ship experienced a problem in their accomandations. It happens to some cabin or area on every ship no matter how old or new. Some how we have lucked out on most of our Dam cruises.

 

Can't wait for our cruise next month on the old old Veendam.

[RuthC]

Talking about the oldest ship in the fleet. We definitely had physical plant issues. Some things off the top of my head, we sailed three years ago. ...

Things have changed a lot on that ship in the last three years, then. HAL must have taken all your posts about your complaints to heart because they seem to have fixed every one of them.

[iancal]

Actually....we have only complained once to the desk out of 20 plus cruises. An NCL Sun cruise. AC issue. Repaired quickly.

 

DW did have a bad cabin on NCL Star. Lots of mold. They switched her cabin immediately.

 

How we validate mold or spores....simple. By the middle of the first night I wake up with breathing issues. DW usually knows before I wake up....she can tell by my breathing. That is, if we cannot smell it when first entering the cabin or the bathroom. Having an allergy to mold is not unusual. Especially for those with other allergies such as hay fever. It is not uncommon. Often have this issue in older properties such as chalets or cottages that only operate in part of the year.

Edited September 16, 2017 by iancal

[MMDown Under]

When was the last time you were on an older HAL ship?

 

I didn't see any in your signature?

 

I sail the oldest ship in the fleet often - do live threads and do report issues I see.

 

Yes, stuff can happen. The window in the Crow's Nest was cracked on that ship from a major storm. It couldn't be replaced until it got to a certain port as the windows for that ship have to be specially ordered.

 

It's not that they wouldn't fix the problem -they couldn't. The window had to be ordered, made and then they needed to get to a port where they had the people who could install it. Older ships have some intricacies about them that go beyond regular maintenance.

 

And, this is not a cheerlead post, nor making excuses, just pointing out that some issues cannot be fixed immediately, sadly.

 

As you noted I haven't cruised on a HAL ship, but have wanted to cruise on one of their small ships ever since I saw HAL ships in Alaska, so follow their reviews as well as "word of mouth". Sadly HAL small ships, I'm interested in, have more negative reviews than I am comfortable with.

 

I have cruised on lots of older ships, but all were well maintained and a joy to cruise on.

Edited September 16, 2017 by MMDown Under

[whogo]

If only it hadn't rained!

The window she is broken and the rain is comin' in

If someone doesn't fix it I'll be soaking to my skin

But if we wait a day or two the rain may go away

And we don't need a window on such a sunny day

Peggy Lee, Mañana

[SFBayAreaShipLover]

Let me start off by saying that I also do not take Hank's observations lightly, and while I cannot comment on HAL's maintenance policies or budgets directly, or to some of the observations, let me shed some possible mitigating factors into some of the problems.

 

 

 

Having worked on another cruise ship from about the same time period as the Rotterdam's building, our ship was built with plastic potable water piping, that used an electric resistance coil in the fittings to melt the fittings and pipe together, in sort of a plastic welding method, rather than threading or other means of joining pipe. At the time, this was cutting edge technology, and was vaunted as the end all and be all of shipboard water piping. However, ships of this building period (late 1990's) were among the first to receive this product, and there was no real long term data on how it performed in a shipboard environment. Leaks were present almost from the start, and repairs made as needed. Within about 10 years, the amounts of leaks and repairs were seriously impacting revenue due to cabins taken out of inventory for repair and compensations given to guests. It was decided to remove as much of the piping as possible, and upgrade to a newer plastic welded piping product. The ship would take one entire deck of cabins out of inventory, and the piping was removed and renewed over a week's cruise. Then the next deck was taken out of inventory, and so on. The cost of having the contractors onboard for months, and the loss of revenue from the cabins on that deck, and any compensation for moving booked passengers was considered less costly than taking the ship out of service completely for the 3-4 weeks it would have taken to do the job in a shipyard. Even then, there were areas that could not be accessed and replaced, predominately in the overhead of the main galley, without dismantling the entire galley to get to it.

 

 

 

"Forensics" on the removed pipe showed that there were two very distinct patterns of welding of the fittings, and research showed that there were two contractors involved in the initial installation, so we suspect that one firm was not doing the welding correctly. All this is to say, that "maintenance" may not be the problem with water pipes, and that the Rotterdam may be getting to the point where the miles of water piping around the ship (we estimated on our ship, a bit bigger than Rotterdam, that we renewed over 15 kilometers of piping) will need to be renewed wholesale, and that this may have been a growing problem that has now reached epic proportions, or it may have been a sort of "sudden" failure of the piping system. Either way, you don't go into a wholesale renewal of piping throughout the ship unless the cost/benefit ratio warrants it. Would you tear out all the piping in your house just because it is x amount of years old?

 

 

 

As for the windows, this is a particularly painful point for me. These windows, all tempered safety glass are special ordered, and then they must be installed by certified glazers to validate the warranty. The problem comes with the requirement that contractors on ships have massive insurance bonds, due to the historical danger of working on ships, and most glazing companies do not have this, so they must subcontract to a marine repair firm, who then adds their mark-up to the job. These windows are also pretty tricky to deal with for crew, as I've had an errant paint chipper shatter a number of bridge windows just from getting too close to the glass.

 

 

 

As I say, none of the above necessarily excuses not addressing problems in a timely fashion, but it does show that sometimes it is not a "maintenance" issue but rather a manufacturing defect or life span issue.

 

 

 

And while leaking plumbing and cracked and leaking windows are legitimate concerns for passengers, as this is the front of the house, know that the class societies that inspect the vessels annually check the maintenance records for the major systems and safety equipment onboard, and while the hotel may be aging gracelessly, the ship continues to be maintained. Hank alluded to this, and I know he knows the difference. I agree that a service industry should do its utmost to provide top service, and that minor inconveniences and poor appearances should be remedied.

 

 

 

This was very well said. Having dealt with cruise ship refits as the Project Mgr for the shipyard, I have see over the years more and more repairs taking place on older vessels. But on the other hand I don't think most folks realize how much work is put into maintaining the ship. Yet I look back at the cost of a cruise 25 ago on Sitmar or Princess, the rates were higher

 

 

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[blizzardboy]

This was very well said. Having dealt with cruise ship refits as the Project Mgr for the shipyard, I have see over the years more and more repairs taking place on older vessels. But on the other hand I don't think most folks realize how much work is put into maintaining the ship. Yet I look back at the cost of a cruise 25 ago on Sitmar or Princess, the rates were higher

 

 

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As one with a non-marine engineering background, I agree that chengkp75's post was very well thought out and quite interesting and informative. Any vehicle is prone to plumbing issues. Ships, boats, and motorhomes lead the pack.

[iancal]

We really do not care about the maintenance challenges with an older ship or with a ship that has had additional cabins added subsequent to the initial build or design. Our responsibility is to pay the fare. Theirs is to provide the product-as described and as promised.

 

We only care that my cabin is in reasonable condition during my stay.

 

When I log on to the cruise line web site my expectations are not set that I am buying a cabin on a 20 year old ship and the AC might not work, HVAC non existent, the plumbing may fail, or there may be lots of mold. Nope....they wax poetic about a wonderful ship on the high seas. Everyone dressed neatly, smiling away. Never see any comment about them adding cabins to pre-existing engineering runs thus taxing those runs even more past their original engineering specs.

 

Maintenance is the responsibility of the cruise line. If they want to extend the life of a ship then do it properly by taking it out of commission for months and renewing the engineering systems. Two weeks in drydock doing cosmetics, fixing a pipe here and there does not do it for us.

 

When we pay our fare we assume that it is inclusive of good maintenance standards-short and long term. If we do not get that then we have every right to feel cheated. Excuses don't cut it. Volkswagen recently found that out. Perhaps we are just old fashioned n our expectations of a cruise line, hotel vendor, etc.

[taxmantoo]

We really do not care about the maintenance challenges with an older ship or with a ship that has had additional cabins added subsequent to the initial build or design. Our responsibility is to pay the fare. Theirs is to provide the product-as described and as promised.

 

We only care that my cabin is in reasonable condition during my stay.

 

When I log on to the cruise line web site my expectations are not set that I am buying a cabin on a 20 year old ship and the AC might not work, HVAC non existent, the plumbing may fail, or there may be lots of mold. Nope....they wax poetic about a wonderful ship on the high seas. Everyone dressed neatly, smiling away. Never see any comment about them adding cabins to pre-existing engineering runs thus taxing those runs even more past their original engineering specs.

 

Maintenance is the responsibility of the cruise line. If they want to extend the life of a ship then do it properly by taking it out of commission for months and renewing the engineering systems. Two weeks in drydock doing cosmetics, fixing a pipe here and there does not do it for us.

 

When we pay our fare we assume that it is inclusive of good maintenance standards-short and long term. If we do not get that then we have every right to feel cheated. Excuses don't cut it. Volkswagen recently found that out. Perhaps we are just old fashioned n our expectations of a cruise line, hotel vendor, etc.

 

(y) We pay our money and expect at the very least a ship in good working order. That is what they advertise and that is what they should deliver.

[bigwally]

Maintenance is the responsibility of the cruise line. If they want to extend the life of a ship then do it properly by taking it out of commission for months and renew

 

It always astounds me when I see a "Mighty Cruise Ships" episode on Smithsonian TV and they're all like "Hey, we're in port for the day, let's pull the engine apart and rebuild the pistons." While I'm sure that's something technically possible within the time allowed by a full day in port, the question I always have is...should they? What if something goes wrong and they can't get that engine back together and working again? That pretty much messes up the cruise for everyone on board and quite possibly for those on the next sailing too.

[bigwally]

I believe I understand what you're saying but would point out that the USCG inspections are only for SOLAS compliance, and not to meet the stricter USCG regulations that apply to US flag cruise ships. The USCG could care less, really, about buckets catching leaks or leaking pipes, or cracked windows on foreign flag cruise ships.

 

Which, among other reasons, is precisely WHY these ships are all flagged from foreign countries.

[iancal]

I worked in IT for many years. Some of it large systems including plant management for pulp and paper plants etc. They have sophisticated plant management maintenance systems that focus of preventative maintenance and zero unplanned downtime. They cannot afford the revenue hit of unexpected downtime.

 

The difference between cruise ships and plant management is that the cruise line can afford outages. There is little or no revenue impact. Sure, they may provide a shut up and go away future OBC or a bottle of cheap plonk but that is generally the extent of the revenue hit. It is the luckless cruiser that gets to 'carry the can' when cruise lines cheap out on maintenance or preventative maintenance.

 

Of course unexpected things can happen. But they can also happen because of cutbacks in preventative maintenance or elongation of engineering systems without a proper refresh. As a cruiser, I am not inclined to finance these bottom line enhancers with my custom, or take a chance when I can reduce the risk by selecting a different ship. And we decided not to buy a home we recently viewed that was advertised as having lots of potential and just needed some decorating/TLC for the same reason.

Edited September 20, 2017 by iancal

[Mary229]

It may be HAL's decision to defer maintenance but it is my right and DUTY as a customer to warn others and I have and not only here. I find it disturbing that CC will not publish my review which though critical was fair and polite.

[Hlitner]

It may be HAL's decision to defer maintenance but it is my right and DUTY as a customer to warn others and I have and not only here. I find it disturbing that CC will not publish my review which though critical was fair and polite.

 

We do not write cruise reviews for CC because of the selective editing imposed by the mods. It is the prerogative of CC to control what they allow on Reviews and out of respect we simply do not bother taking our time to author detailed reviews. One might consider that if critical reviews are routinely rejected then the existing reviews represent a false positive perspective.

 

The CC Mods do allow a lot of leeway on the various boards, so this does seem to be the best place to post and discuss aspects that are not permitted within the reviews.

 

Hank

[Mary229]

We do not write cruise reviews for CC because of the selective editing imposed by the mods. It is the prerogative of CC to control what they allow on Reviews and out of respect we simply do not bother taking our time to author detailed reviews. One might consider that if critical reviews are routinely rejected then the existing reviews represent a false positive perspective.

 

The CC Mods do allow a lot of leeway on the various boards, so this does seem to be the best place to post and discuss aspects that are not permitted within the reviews.

 

Hank

 

Thanks Hank. I appreciate you confirming what I supposed. So how on earth can anyone find a fair review anymore? I don't trust Tripadvisor now that they sell travel too.

[albingirl]

If a hotel chain maintained their hotels like HAL does their old ships, the hotel chain would soon go out of business with holiday travellers.

 

HAL's badly maintained older ships survive because of their excellent staff and their great itineraries, despite their poor management.

Wow! Quite a sweeping statement. I can't wait to sail on an "old" ship again....next month, in fact. Until you have sailed on every ship in the fleet, I believe your finger pointing is without merit.

[Mary229]

Wow! Quite a sweeping statement. I can't wait to sail on an "old" ship again....next month, in fact. Until you have sailed on every ship in the fleet, I believe your finger pointing is without merit.

 

I don't think a customer should have to sail on every ship in the fleet to find a good one.

[UPNYGuy]

Threads like this are the EXACT reason why DW and I are venturing to other cruise lines. We have been very happy on NCL, booking on the midsize vessels. We even like the Breakaway class as well, as long as school break times are avoided. Our last cruise was on Oceania, and was positively resplendent. Next week we venture out on Royal Caribbean, and next month we are giving MSC a shot. We will return to HAL, but it would need to be a unique itinerary (or priced fairly and include explore 4).

 

 

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[UPNYGuy]

I am in agreement with much of your post. I have not sailed on enough ships that have been built in shipyards other than Italy, so I cannot make a reasonable judgement as to the quality of construction or materials used.

 

 

 

I sailed on the Veendam during her second year of service. She was built by Fincanteri. The caulking around the edges of the bathtub in my stateroom needed repair, and was, repaired during my cruise. Hmm, I thought. Odd, for such a new vessel.

 

 

 

We have sailed on STX Europe, Meyer Werft, Chantiers de l’Atlantique (STX Europe), Lloyd Werft, and of course Fincantieri builds. I personally would place the Fincantieri builds last in quality, with the STX Europe ships first off my experience.

 

Granted, much to this has to do with how much is actually spent on maintaining the vessel as it ages. Regent Seven Seas Explorer, widely regarded as the most luxurious vessel afloat, is a Fincantieri build.

[UPNYGuy]

Our experience after 25+ cruises on various lines is that conditions are relatively the same on all of them.

 

 

Cabin conditions?

 

 

 

 

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[rkacruiser]

We have sailed on STX Europe, Meyer Werft, Chantiers de l’Atlantique (STX Europe), Lloyd Werft, and of course Fincantieri builds. I personally would place the Fincantieri builds last in quality, with the STX Europe ships first off my experience.

 

Granted, much to this has to do with how much is actually spent on maintaining the vessel as it ages. Regent Seven Seas Explorer, widely regarded as the most luxurious vessel afloat, is a Fincantieri build.

 

No doubt that the maintenance budget for the ship once in service is important. But, if the construction budget for a new ship only allows the shipyard to hire the lowest bidder sub- contractors, well, in my experience with budgets/contractors, one gets the quality of work and materials for which one is paying.

[swedish weave]

No doubt that the maintenance budget for the ship once in service is important. But, if the construction budget for a new ship only allows the shipyard to hire the lowest bidder sub- contractors, well, in my experience with budgets/contractors, one gets the quality of work and materials for which one is paying.

 

You are painting with a very broad brush. Even the high bidders can cut corners and turn out an inferior product.